Introduction and a couple of questions about point usage

[anricat]

Hello all!

I'm new to this section of the DIS (I mostly hand out over in the cruise area). My DH and I have started talking about possibly purchasing DVC. We are currently thinking about resale and probably an Epcot area resort like BWV or BCV. We currently have points rented from a member here on the DIS for October at BWV so we can give it a try. (We won't be making any decisions until after that.) I've been reading through the forums here and I've been monitoring some of the resale websites to get ideas as to cost. I also took a DVC phone tour this week. The rep was really nice and it was actually pretty quick. I don't know what I was expecting, but it definitely wasn't a hard sell. They send me a giant box of stuff in the mail I've been looking through including points charts, info on all the resorts and a special booklet about the new Copper Creek, which looks pretty, but perhaps not my style (DH thought it looked really cute - must be the Eagle Scout in him).

We love cruising with Disney and we are thinking we would like to alternate cruising and WDW vacations for the foreseeable future. So one year a cruise, next year WDW. (Incidentally, we know we won't want points for cruises and we couldn't do that resale anyway.)

My first question: Are there members who purchase a smaller number of points, like 50-70 with the intention of banking and then taking a WDW vacation every other year or is this crazy?

Second question: I haven't seen anything about this, but it seems like contracts are typically nice round numbers, 50 points, 100 points, 150 points, etc. But I'm looking at point charts and reservations are 107 points, 148 points, stuff like that. So...what happens with the leftovers? 2 points here, 5 points there, does it matter? Do those just sort of fall by the wayside?

Finally, I'm looking at use year. My daughter is a gymnast with intense practice during the late summer months (late June, July, August) and meets starting mid-August, tapering off by the end of the year (currently). If she continues, meets are potentially changing (to who knows what) but she's currently compulsory (for any fellow gym parents) and that's the schedule for compulsory gymnasts in Texas. This year, she has a little break mid-October that's allowing us to travel to WDW, which I'm hoping will continue because, while we've only ever done DL in October and WDW in October is new to us, we are so excited about MNSSHP and F&W (my DH is a big wine guy).

So, third question: I can see us either wanting mid-October or early spring for our future vacations. Summers are out. So would an August or September use year make sense for us?

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the guidance.

 

[Dean]

Oct would be best to cover Oct & Spring or else maybe a March or April to cover spring and Oct. Basically you want the most number of months overall on average after your usual trips. The less you can do this the more risk you take so just look at that and the rest of your situation to determine overall risk. IMO a good UY is worth about a years worth of points over a bad one. There are a lot of contracts that are odd number but for smaller ones I'd guess it's less common. Just decide what you need, figure a 10-20% cushion, if your targeting studios in this situation, I'd do 20%, maybe even slightly more if your looking at a specialty view like BWV standard as your point of reference. A lot of people do EOY and bank/borrow to do that. It does add risk but is workable for many. Once you get to every 3rd year the risk goes up quite a lot and it's rarely worth it in that situation.

 

[disneynutz]

Gym won't last forever so you need to think beyond the next several years. Points not used you bank to the next. I know that you intend to skip years but your DCL schedule won't last forever either. We chose our UY based on our vacation preference of cooler months. We hate Disney during the summer/warmer months and will only vacation there between Oct and May. DVC owners tend to take extra Disney vacations so be prepared to buy additional contracts in the future.

Owning DVC isn't a permanent decision, If you need to adjust later, just do so.

Bill

 

[CMNJ]

We own a smaller number of points at BWV and had the same kind of travel times in mind when we were looking to buy. We love travel in the fall and spring and eventually landed on an April UY because we thought we might need to consider summer travel in the future (due to school schedule) and that we really never planned to travel in Jan/Feb. I'd agreed with Dean that March/April or Oct would probably be best for you if you are positive you don't plan to travel at all in Aug or Sept. Keep in mind that if something happens and you have to cancel after your banking window you must use your points before the end of your UY. So if you had an Aug UY you must bank by March 31st. Say you had a vacation planned in May but something came up and you had to cancel it on April 1st. All your points used for the vacation would then have to be used by July 31st or you would lose them (and you said summer travel is out). However if you had a March or April UY you would still be able to bank your current UY points and/or reschedule your vacation for the better part of a year.

Also keep in mind that F&W and particularly Oct are incredibly popular with DVC owners (and renters.) Should you choose to buy at BWV or BCV you should be prepared to book at 11 months for Oct trips. Even then you may be shut out of standard view BWV villas (studios and 2BR commonly disappear by 8:01 am based on my personal booking experience the past couple years). BWV Pool/garden view last longer but are still often gone 8-9 months in advance as well. Not sure how far in advance you get your daughter's schedule but if you can't plan that far in advance I wouldn't spend the extra cost to buy at BWV or BCV specifically for fall trips. That being said we love BWV and are looking forward to our second stay there this Oct. I just know that I have to book at 8 am on the dot 11 months out if I want to secure my studio reservation.

 

[icc2515]

I think that you have made a great choice choosing BWV or BCV as your home resort. One thing to keep in mind is that your choice of contracts at those 2 resorts are very limited. Using the DVC search engine there are only 26 contracts at 150 or less points for sale and only 1 for less than 100 (40pts BCV). My point is that you might want to set your sights at about the 100-150 point mark to actually be able to find a contract to buy in the correct use year.

BWV (where we own) is less expensive, has more rooms, and has more contracts available.

 

[anricat]

Thanks all! I appreciate the input. We'll aim for April to cover spring and fall. I know that gymnastics won't last forever, but for the foreseeable future, we have to take it into account. My daughter is JO (junior olympic) and is DRIVEN. I can't see her walking away at this point with the time and energy she's invested. You never know what tomorrow brings, indeed, and she is only 8, but if she continues this path, she has at least another 10 years of this. And being from Texas, escaping from the Texas heat to the Florida heat isn't exactly super appealing so I can't see us aiming for summer! We went last time in June and it was already getting fairly hot. We have four days at Universal this June and my DH isn't relishing it. I'm more heat-tolerant (which is ironic since I'm the one from Colorado originally).

We did experience the craziness of booking BWV in October! The DISer the we worked with for the rental put in the reservation on exactly the 11 month date and we were unable to secure a standard view. Instead, we have a Boardwalk view. It's a little more than we wanted to spend, but we're ultimately happy with our choice. I think it will make our first visit there more magical. The DISer that we worked with warned us that it might be tricky, but it worked out well. I saw the post and got in touch with him a few days before the window and he was kind enough to wait and see if he could secure something with me. It was really fantastic. I wasn't sure about renting directly with an individual, but so far so good. He seems like a good bloke.

So if we add about 10-20% cushion onto the points we think we need, then we're just expecting that we may not always use all of our points, right? And that's just sort of part of the equation. There's points lost and there's no use crying over spilled...points?

So my next question relates to my timeline going forward. Next year we're going on a cruise, so we won't be going to WDW next year (2018). If we're shooting for our next WDW vacation for 2019, when should we think about this process. I suppose if we're doing every other year, we'd want to bank points from a 2018 UY to use for a 2019 trip, as opposed to borrowing from the future right out of the gate.

 

[Dean]

So if we add about 10-20% cushion onto the points we think we need, then we're just expecting that we may not always use all of our points, right? And that's just sort of part of the equation. There's points lost and there's no use crying over spilled...points?

So my next question relates to my timeline going forward. Next year we're going on a cruise, so we won't be going to WDW next year (2018). If we're shooting for our next WDW vacation for 2019, when should we think about this process. I suppose if we're doing every other year, we'd want to bank points from a 2018 UY to use for a 2019 trip, as opposed to borrowing from the future right out of the gate.

If you don't add 10-20% and something happens or you want to try something else that's more, you won't have enough. They can reallocate and you may not have enough points after to get what you normally want. They could change the fall away from choice season and/or they could just raise the time or even the studios themselves. If you're targeting standard and you have to do BW or preferred view, again, you'll be short. Since you decided April was best, I'm assuming your spring break is always in April rather than a set time related to Easter. Make sure you consider that your Spring break might hit easter and be premier level points some years. You'll have to crush all of these numbers and variables but it's better to have a few extra than not enough.

Ignoring the up front accounting on any contract, if you have 10% extra and you always need exactly what you've calculated, it would take 9-10 trips before you'd be in the situation of losing points, 5 trips (10 yrs) with 20% a cushion. Issues that will affect your potential best contract size would include these: are you looking at standard view if BWV, how likely are you to hit Easter, do you want to try other resorts, how committed are you to hitting the same 2 yr cycle consistently and UY in relationship to when you get started on your 2 year plan. If there's at all a chance you'll hit the 2 weeks around Easter, which you likely will for April, then enough points to cover the premier season will likely be enough or close to it. This issue also could open you up to a wider range of contracts since the smaller you go the more cost per point AND the less contracts that would work. If you end up with use or lose points situation you could always do a larger villa, different resort or stay a day or 2 longer.

Spend a good 6 months of investigation so that you'll be as educated as possible. The first question is whether DVC in general makes sense (pay cash, plan 11 months out since you're looking at Oct/? Easter, OK with the commitments and compromise of a timeshare). If so, then it's home resort, contract size and UY which you're doing now. Then you can start looking for the right contract. Don't try to time it too close, you can always rent out extra points if you need to.

 

[anricat]

Okay, sounds good. Our spring break is actually the second week in March each year. But my MIL insists we come to Mexico. She has a time share there. This year we did a cruise and she was so unhappy I had to hear about it for months. What a mess! We're booked there for spring break next year. We'd like to try November or December next I think and experience all the holiday festivities.

That's all sound reasoning. We will be paying cash. We like to plan ahead so that's not an issue either. We book cruises opening day (over a year out, usually more) and we booked our October trip 11 months out. We aren't last minute people.

So it sounds like probably a 100 point contract would be a good place for us to start.

 

[Dean]

Okay, sounds good. Our spring break is actually the second week in March each year. But my MIL insists we come to Mexico. She has a time share there. This year we did a cruise and she was so unhappy I had to hear about it for months. What a mess! We're booked there for spring break next year. We'd like to try November or December next I think and experience all the holiday festivities.

That's all sound reasoning. We will be paying cash. We like to plan ahead so that's not an issue either. We book cruises opening day (over a year out, usually more) and we booked our October trip 11 months out. We aren't last minute people.

So it sounds like probably a 100 point contract would be a good place for us to start.

It sounds like March or Oct would be best for you. Your requirements may change and since you usually travel during March even if it's MX right now, I'd plan for that time. We love our family trips, we'll have 43 people in HH this year at the premier Marriott there, but no way am I going to expect anyone to go. That sounds like a tense time either way. At my house that sounds like a sit dow meeting to set some boundaries. I don't do well with unreasonable expectations of this nature. 100 sounds reasonable but given your needs, that'll give you some flexibility for a range of contract sizes. You may also want to consider a 25 pt retail purchase at some point to have additional options. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[crisi]

I don't have a driven daughter in gymnastics, but I have two ordinary teenagers - and I think you shouldn't buy at all.

As my kids have gotten older - my non driven don't actually do that much teens (he did baseball - he's graduating this year) - she does drama and Girl Scouts) - the windows on when we can travel as a family have closed. We used to be able to pull them from school - can't do that when my daughter (Junior in high school) has three AP courses and a college course. We used to be able to vacation over Spring Break - nope - baseball has Spring Training and drama has mandatory set builds. We used to be able to go over the Summer - but been Girl Scout camp (my daughter is a counselor), Summer baseball, Summer-stock theatre, and jobs - that can't happen either.

I can't imagine how fast and tight our schedule would have gotten had our kids been either driven or joiners. Ours really didn't start to tighten until middle school. And since they both got to high school (Junior and Senior this year - so three years), we haven't been able to get in a family vacation with the whole family.

 

[anricat]

I don't have a driven daughter in gymnastics, but I have two ordinary teenagers - and I think you shouldn't buy at all.

As my kids have gotten older - my non driven don't actually do that much teens (he did baseball - he's graduating this year) - she does drama and Girl Scouts) - the windows on when we can travel as a family have closed. We used to be able to pull them from school - can't do that when my daughter (Junior in high school) has three AP courses and a college course. We used to be able to vacation over Spring Break - nope - baseball has Spring Training and drama has mandatory set builds. We used to be able to go over the Summer - but been Girl Scout camp (my daughter is a counselor), Summer baseball, Summer-stock theatre, and jobs - that can't happen either.

I can't imagine how fast and tight our schedule would have gotten had our kids been either driven or joiners. Ours really didn't start to tighten until middle school. And since they both got to high school (Junior and Senior this year - so three years), we haven't been able to get in a family vacation with the whole family.

So you're basically thinking that given the possibility of schedule changes and between the potential inflexibility of meet an practice schedules and normal kid schedules, we may not necessarily be able to vacation like we do now? That's possible and it's in the back of my mind.

I will say that she's in private school and I have no qualms about removing her from school to go on vacations so we do have some flexibility there. But I know missing a week of third grade is different than missing a week of ninth and I see where you're going with that.

But vacations are so super important to us. And we LOVE Disney. Like, sort of crazy love and I can see us wanting to go regularly. Maybe continuing to rent points is a better option for us, then. It's a huge thing to think about, for sure. I can't imagine not going on a vacation at least once a year (if not more - this year we've got three big vacations: DCL, Universal and WDW).

So what do most people do? I mean, certainly many people run into this situation with kids, and still own right? I think it's slightly easier that I've only got one schedule to juggle and that's nice. Coupled with my self-employment and DH works for a company with generous vacation time and we have more flexibility than most, I think.

 

[anricat]

At my house that sounds like a sit dow meeting to set some boundaries.

Yah.... with my MIL it's easier to go with the flow. She thinks that Puerto Vallarta is the be all end all. They own 16 weeks there or something crazy. It's a really beautiful resort (time share company called Vidanta) but I'll be honest, I'm sort of done with it but she expects us there every spring break and every Thanksgiving. I'm hoping we can break away more often if I give her enough notice.

Actually, I'm a little afraid of getting stuck with those weeks some day. I think her husband (my DH's step-dad) technically owns most of them and many of their finances are separate, but I think she owns some and I worry about being saddled with their dues some day. She's in her late 70's and he's in his 80's and I really don't want to get stuck with a bunch of their time shares. They don't have a thriving resale market like Disney.

 

[Dean]

Yah.... with my MIL it's easier to go with the flow. She thinks that Puerto Vallarta is the be all end all. They own 16 weeks there or something crazy. It's a really beautiful resort (time share company called Vidanta) but I'll be honest, I'm sort of done with it but she expects us there every spring break and every Thanksgiving. I'm hoping we can break away more often if I give her enough notice.

Actually, I'm a little afraid of getting stuck with those weeks some day. I think her husband (my DH's step-dad) technically owns most of them and many of their finances are separate, but I think she owns some and I worry about being saddled with their dues some day. She's in her late 70's and he's in his 80's and I really don't want to get stuck with a bunch of their time shares. They don't have a thriving resale market like Disney.

Often short term pain yields long term gain but you're the one living it. If one doesn't establish appropriate boundaries, it has a tendency to snowball. And for inlaws it needs to be the blood relative setting the boundaries. Sounds like the MIL might be the bully that everyone buckles to but hopefully not.

You won't be stuck with them but the estate may not be able to be settled because of them. A lot of the timeshares in that area are RTU but I don't know about that one.

 

[MouseOfCards]

We love cruising with Disney and we are thinking we would like to alternate cruising and WDW vacations for the foreseeable future. So one year a cruise, next year WDW. (Incidentally, we know we won't want points for cruises and we couldn't do that resale anyway.)

In case you haven't heard, David's has a service allowing you to exchange your points for Disney cruises. Here's their link:

http://www.dvcrequest.com/dvc-cruise.asp

(No, I don't work for him, and sadly, received no compensation for this message.)

 

[anricat]

Often short term pain yields long term gain but you're the one living it. If one doesn't establish appropriate boundaries, it has a tendency to snowball. And for inlaws it needs to be the blood relative setting the boundaries. Sounds like the MIL might be the bully that everyone buckles to but hopefully not.

You won't be stuck with them but the estate may not be able to be settled because of them. A lot of the timeshares in that area are RTU but I don't know about that one.

I've been with my DH for over 20 years at this point (married for 17 of those) and I've just learned that she is who she is. You're pretty much spot on. Everyone just sort of goes along with her. We've all just accepted it's easier on everyone that way. This year was the first time I said we weren't coming for spring break and I've been hearing about it nonstop since. Hopefully she gets over it soon. She made up for it by inviting herself to our place for Christmas instead.

What is RTU?

 

[anricat]

In case you haven't heard, David's has a service allowing you to exchange your points for Disney cruises. Here's their link:

http://www.dvcrequest.com/dvc-cruise.asp

(No, I don't work for him, and sadly, received no compensation for this message.)

Interesting! Amusingly enough, the gentleman I rented points from for October is going on a cruise. After he had my reservation held, I paid for the points by calling DCL and just paid directly on his cruise! Worked great!

 

[MouseOfCards]

Interesting! Amusingly enough, the gentleman I rented points from for October is going on a cruise. After he had my reservation held, I paid for the points by calling DCL and just paid directly on his cruise! Worked great!

What an innovative idea! And did you pay for his full cruise of just a portion? And I assume he wasn't advertising that payment for the points rental was to be paid to DCL, correct? Now I'm thinking that the next time we rent out points, we'll say that payment should be made directly to our DVC annual dues!

 

[crisi]

So you're basically thinking that given the possibility of schedule changes and between the potential inflexibility of meet an practice schedules and normal kid schedules, we may not necessarily be able to vacation like we do now? That's possible and it's in the back of my mind.

I will say that she's in private school and I have no qualms about removing her from school to go on vacations so we do have some flexibility there. But I know missing a week of third grade is different than missing a week of ninth and I see where you're going with that.

But vacations are so super important to us. And we LOVE Disney. Like, sort of crazy love and I can see us wanting to go regularly. Maybe continuing to rent points is a better option for us, then. It's a huge thing to think about, for sure. I can't imagine not going on a vacation at least once a year (if not more - this year we've got three big vacations: DCL, Universal and WDW).

So what do most people do? I mean, certainly many people run into this situation with kids, and still own right? I think it's slightly easier that I've only got one schedule to juggle and that's nice. Coupled with my self-employment and DH works for a company with generous vacation time and we have more flexibility than most, I think.

We rented one year. We've taken my daughter and left my son behind. We've skipped vacations.

We were three times a year vacation people - Europe, cruises, Hawaii, Disney. My kids have been on four continents. But missing school to vacation will tank both their grades (and neither of them has awesome grades) - they are just in public high school, but Minnesota suburban high schools are pretty competitive. And there is NO leeway on activities - vacation and you'll never make the team/get a role in a play/be allowed on yearbook again. Vacations have just become a lower priority while the kids are in high school.

Next year my son will be off at tech school and won't be able to vacation with us again, and my daughter will likely start college and co-enroll - so no pulling her either. But then they will both be adults and we will use our points for us. At the same time, college expenses will hit - we've been pretty frugal except for vacations, so it won't impact our budget too much - but keep in mind that expense is only ten years away for you.

If you love Disney, you can work around it - you may take fewer vacations, but you'll come back to it. I just, in that case, would make no decisions based off your daughter's current needs - buy for your long term needs.

 

[anricat]

What an innovative idea! And did you pay for his full cruise of just a portion? And I assume he wasn't advertising that payment for the points rental was to be paid to DCL, correct? Now I'm thinking that the next time we rent out points, we'll say that payment should be made directly to our DVC annual dues!

It sort of came up organically. He posted on the DIS that he had Boardwalk points and how much per point. Once he had a reservation on hold that worked for us, we were emailing back and forth and I asked how he wanted me to make payment. He mentioned options and had said he was going on a cruise. I offered to just call and pay the amount directly onto his cruise reservation. It wasn't the whole amount he owed on his cruise, just the amount for the points we were renting. It worked out great because I was able to use money I already set aside in my DVA and he didn't have to worry about PayPal or cashing a check or anything. It went right to where he was going to use the money anyway. As soon as he got the email from DCL confirming the payment, he moved the reservation over to my name.

I would say if you're renting points, definitely ask the renter if that might be a possibility. I know I'd be happy to do it that way.

 

[kboo]

Granted, my kids are younger than yours (6 and 1.5), so I'm sure things will change for us as well - but after renting points a few times and seeing how many times we went to WDW each year, we figured that going about 5-7 times would have been "break even" for us, whether it's every year in a studio or every other year for longer or in larger digs. My older one is in a fairly competitive and intense (selective) public school, so we have already started feeling the pressure as far as not pulling her out of school. So far activities are not so intense (she can miss up to 3-4 over the course of the year and still be ok), but we also are lucky that we are willing to travel over holiday times. But I think we'll be able to work around this for a bit since we are willing to go in the summer (3 out of 4 of us have summer birthdays, and the 4th is Thanksgiving).

BTW, my parents also own way too much in terms of less-valuable timeshares. My sister and I realized my parents (mom has dementia, can't really travel much anymore) had a timeshare that they weren't using anymore and we looked at possibly selling it because neither of us were going to use it either. Problem is, it had 2 years' worth of dues owing and a value of only about $5,000 (which was not much more than the dues). So our options were to pay the dues and then sell it, or let the condo foreclose on it. We chose the latter.