Interval International Usage

[ccrisenbery@fellerfi]

Hi,

My family and I just returned from WDW last Saturday and while staying at the AKL (I'm so proud I know some of these abreviations ) we took the time to visit the DVC tour. We were impressed and although we didn't sign up immediately as I want to do a little more research, they are sending us the paperwork so we might do so.

So a couple of questions.

1) We like Disney, but cannot see coming down each year (probably every 3 years more likely) we are very interested in the trade option with II. However, I saw some negative comments about why this isn't a great way to trade? is this because it isn't a good value?

I had kind of looked at a rough cost per point...if this make sense, 160 point buy in say roughly $16,000, 49 years of maintenance $49,000 grand total of $65,000 divided by roughly 8,000 points or $8.25 a point so a peak season II resort at 160 points would cost $1,320 a wk or $190.00 a night....I would assume I could get many locations for less money and have maid serves each day? or am I missing something?

2) It also seems like we would also be getting a better valus assuming the deal passes Disneys refusal buying from an individual or a reseller? or is there something I'm missing.

3) In regards to the II option, and I realize some destinations might take longer to find, but lets say you wanted to go to London (or somewhere else fairly desireable) and had a specific (but not peak season time) how long could you expect to wait to get a trade? and are you trading with the actual person that wants to go to Disney?

Thanks in advance.

 

[chris1gill]

First, I think the AP savings are important & Second, I think in some circumstances, II can be very beneficial by using points... Like if you were to stay at the Westin Maui, or Marriott Maui or Ko'Olina... if you could get resorts like that for a week, that's an outstanding trade.... you just have to make sure the resort you are trading into is equal to what you are giving up.... Availability always changes, so there's no way to ever know how long a request might take.

Just MHO, we're looking to use our points to stay at the Grand Waillea on Maui with our points next.... again, based on the price of the resort, to us, it's a great use of points....

 

[Dean]

DVC is an extremely poor value to use to exchange. You might be better off with other options. You could look at a Marriott or any one of a number of other timeshares. You might even be able to trade into DVC esp if you can do with a 1 BR, use a full week and aren't tied to Xmas, Mid summer and Easter. The best option for many in this situations is to buy a few DVC points and another options. If you plan well, you could just buy enough points to go every 3 years and then look at other options for non DVC trips. You'll have to buy resale if you want less than 160 points.

 

[ccrisenbery@fellerfi]

Why is it a poor value? Because of the high initial cost? or something else?

We looked at a time share years ago in Key West, the high pressure sales guy assured us that we could trade our one week a year for up to 2 weeks anywhere else...it sounded way to good to be true and it was! When we got home and checked into his inflatted claims we found out we would have been lucky if ANYONE would want to trade! even for 1 to 1!

I would think Disney would be a better bet to find available trades and might be worth a little more because of it? I've seen some ads for 250 Saratoga points for $17,500....seems like a decent deal.

Thanks and please keep commenting!

 

[Chuck S]

The SSR deal, at $70 per point, is a great deal. But I have serious doubts that it would clear Disney. Once a resale offer is made, it is submitted to Disney, who has the right to purchase the contract for the same price as the offer.

 

[TisBit]

Why is it a poor value? Because of the high initial cost? or something else?

I think when people refer to it being a poor value, is that the value in DVC is WDW primarily. If you were looking to vacation elsewhere every three or four years it would be completely different than trying to vacation at Disney every 3 years. It is the same theory as buying where you want to vacation. If you aren't into Disney that much, DVC is problablly not right for you.

I think people are trying to say that it might be better for you to look at getting a high quality timeshare from Marriott or similar in a place that you wouldn't mind visiting more often. The trading power of those timeshares will allow you to trade out to new locations, without quite as high of a buy in as DVC has.

 

[AKLFan3]

I also am rather confused on how people are defining a good value for II. We are very new DVC members, (closing isn't for another month) and I have been browsing through the member book. I noticed that if I want to go to Scotland in the value season for 1 week, it is 124 points, I believe. To me, that seems like a fair value. We purchased 160 points, so clearly with the 124 points, we could just bank the remaining points into our next year. And just as a comparison, if we stayed at AKV in a 1 bedroom savanna or concierge room during the weekdays, we would use up a lot of points, (I don't feel like grabbing the book to see exactly how many), but I believe we could only stay at AKV for 5 days out of the year, then most or almost all of our points for that year are gone. We certainly don't mind doing that, but I don't understand how people are saying staying at DVC is cheaper-point wise than going somewhere else with II. For us, it is 5 days at AKV or 1 week with II. More than likely, we will bank or borrow points for a few years and either go to WDW one year, then use II the next year, and alternate. We LOVE WDW, and we love going other places too. The only way I can figure people are saying II is too point heavy is because they may be staying in value or standard view rooms that are studios or maybe 1 bedrooms?

As a side note, I glanced at the point values for HHI and I am shocked at how few points it uses! Whenever we end up heading there, we will have enough points for a 3 bedroom villa for 4 nights. That is a GREAT deal! So I can see HHI being cheaper point-wise than II.

 

[Dean]

Why is it a poor value? Because of the high initial cost? or something else?

We looked at a time share years ago in Key West, the high pressure sales guy assured us that we could trade our one week a year for up to 2 weeks anywhere else...it sounded way to good to be true and it was! When we got home and checked into his inflatted claims we found out we would have been lucky if ANYONE would want to trade! even for 1 to 1!

I would think Disney would be a better bet to find available trades and might be worth a little more because of it? I've seen some ads for 250 Saratoga points for $17,500....seems like a decent deal.

Thanks and please keep commenting!

It's a poor value for a number of reasons. First, the II exchange options are not guaranteed and the best ones are almost guaranteed not to be available. You would be giving up usually 160 to 270 points with a street value of $10-12 per point. You could buy a non DVC timeshare for the value of the one exchange and actually have better trade power and more options than using DVC to do so. Think of it like exchanging cars instead of a room. With DVC you're almost always trading a BMW for a Toyota or Chevy and sometimes for a Yugo. When you do so, you pay a fee and have precious few options if your plans change. And when you get to the destination you are likely to get one of the worst options at a give property. And in almost every case you could take the applicable cash and rent the same thing or something similar for less.

The only time I think trading DVC is a good deal is for those people who will shoot for the moon trying to trade for high demand resorts during peak times and know up front they will usually not get it. It's also an OK value for the one time thing. The problem with those buying in is that if they're thinking about using it for exchanging at all, they will likely want to do so more than once or twice. Plus they have the option to know this up front and can plan accordingly.

 

[SanDeeKath]

II is also a bad deal for Starwood (Westin/Sheraton TSs). The trades through II are bad. As people say, there is nowhere to go but down. Very rarely are there good resorts available that would make it a fair trade. Most good trades occur internally within the Starwood program (same with Marriott). We usually try to rent out our Starwood TS and use the money to rent someplace else.

Another option is to try to do a direct exchange with someone outside II. You'd need to offer to book a week that works for them and in exchange take one of their weeks (or equivalent time). Many people would love to do this. Redweek has a set up like this as well as TUG2.

Kath

 

[Dean]

II is also a bad deal for Starwood (Westin/Sheraton TSs). The trades through II are bad. As people say, there is nowhere to go but down. Very rarely are there good resorts available that would make it a fair trade. Most good trades occur internally within the Starwood program (same with Marriott). We usually try to rent out our Starwood TS and use the money to rent someplace else.

Another option is to try to do a direct exchange with someone outside II. You'd need to offer to book a week that works for them and in exchange take one of their weeks (or equivalent time). Many people would love to do this. Redweek has a set up like this as well as TUG2.

Kath

But don't trades inside 60 days cost less with Starwood like with every other system except DVC. Given there is more variability from top to bottom with the Starwood resorts, there are some ? subtle differences. One who owns Vistana would probably feel differently than one who owns Ka'anapali or Kierland.

 

[kathy carleton]

I am pying close attention to this thread! and really would love some more info... Dean is always so knowledgable about this issue, and we are learning!

We bought in 260 points last year... DVC was the right decision for us due to our love for all things Disney.... BUT.. we also had to way the trading options as well, as there are other places that we would like to go and do want to trade some. We can only afford one location, and are very very pleased with our choice (just should have bought in about 8 years earlier). That being said, We do wish to trade some... we have already set up a trade at Williamsburg Marriott Ford Colony for the 1st week of June.. and are hopeful that this is a fairly decent trade (our guide said it was a lovely property).. I would like more information on trading options- how things work... what these other boards are that you refer to sometimes "TUG?" maybe sometimes we may wish to trade outright... I think I just need more information so that we can make the right choices. Disney is our primary reason for buying in, but we do plan to trade for Europe in 2 years ,ect...

Have I made sense? so many of you are so knowledgable about so many of the timeshares... I want to know, so that we can use our points to the most advantage! thanks

 

[Dean]

I am pying close attention to this thread! and really would love some more info... Dean is always so knowledgable about this issue, and we are learning!

We bought in 260 points last year... DVC was the right decision for us due to our love for all things Disney.... BUT.. we also had to way the trading options as well, as there are other places that we would like to go and do want to trade some. We can only afford one location, and are very very pleased with our choice (just should have bought in about 8 years earlier). That being said, We do wish to trade some... we have already set up a trade at Williamsburg Marriott Ford Colony for the 1st week of June.. and are hopeful that this is a fairly decent trade (our guide said it was a lovely property).. I would like more information on trading options- how things work... what these other boards are that you refer to sometimes "TUG?" maybe sometimes we may wish to trade outright... I think I just need more information so that we can make the right choices. Disney is our primary reason for buying in, but we do plan to trade for Europe in 2 years ,ect...

Have I made sense? so many of you are so knowledgable about so many of the timeshares... I want to know, so that we can use our points to the most advantage! thanks

The Marriott Manor Club is a fabulous property, it is a few miles away from the historical district. Are you in the old (MMC) or newer (MSE) section? Both are great, the older doesn't have lockoff's so if you have less than a 2 BR you'd have to be in the newer. Great Golf it you do. Marriott exchangers get 3 free rounds of Golf but not other exchangers and it is a fairly easy property to trade into as Williamsburg has become saturated with timeshares almost like Orlando and certainly like Branson and LV. Ultimately you have to decide what's best for you and you points, my goal is for people to have the info, not to beat them up over their choices. You'll see my most negative posts in this area for those looking to buy in and thinking about exchanging as they have the unique opportunity to plan accordingly. My guess is most ignore the advice but most later wish they'd listened. Buying less DVC points and buying something else is indeed both the best and cheapest choice for almost all who are thinking of DVC but non DVC options as well. But the truth is that most are too lazy to learn another system well enough to use it and being ill informed in timesharing is the ki$$$$$ of death with those $$$ flying out the window.

My recommendations for other places to get info are TUG (Timeshare Users Group) and TST (Timesharing Today). There are a couple of other sites but they don't add much. There are also some Yahoo and MSN lists for certain resort systems. TUG is free for the BBS but $10 a year ($15 year one) to have access to reviews, ratings and private exchange listings. They also have classifieds. I'd recommend looking at the ratings including how many ratings make up the number but more the reviews. If 1 person says it's a 10, that's not the same, or as good, as 50 people saying it's a 9. Also read the reviews as to how old they are. If they're all 3 to 4 years old, that might make a difference as to the accuracy. You can also search, and post, for questions about specific resorts or recommendations for an area or specific interest, etc. TST is more of a bimonthly magazine with a more intensive and broader but more rigid review process. It makes it more accurate and have more information when it covers a resort but you get less reviews due to their rigidity. I look at both. TST also does a side by side comparison of the exchange companies one a year or every two years, I forget. This would be nice to have, though likely not worth joining for DVC members.

On a side note, resorts with little exchange activity are mostly rated by owners who skew their ratings higher. Of course one could ask are they just that much better or are the reviewers homers. For DVC it's likely a little of both but the reality is that DVC members likely over rate the resorts more than most other resorts due to the fact that only 3% exchange out at all and that many DVC owners have little to compare it to. They to to a DVC resort, drink the koolaid and have a great time and rate things accordingly. It's much like rating your college football team against your rival. I'll also warn you that TUG has a couple of people that are simply anti DVC and very vocal about it. There are also a couple more that are just as vocal and opposed to any resort that charges an extra fee.

As to process, I'd say investigate the area and possible resorts yourself, one is a fool to simply rely on what DVC says or even worse, assume that the resorts are fine because they are on the DVC list. DVC sometimes has additional info as well so calling to check out certain resorts is not a bad idea. Once you know the dates you can consider and know at least some resorts that are OK with YOU, then you call DVC and place the exchange request and pay the "non-refundable $95 fee". You can change the dates, add or remove resorts and even cancel later if you want, complete with refund. They will almost always not have what you want when you call, and if they do wonder if you're making a good choice, so place an ongoing request, this is the best way to find what you want. Always do search first unless you have point that will expire. IF you do deposit first, I'd say always deposit HIGH season, usually for a 2 BR, unless you're extremely knowledgeable and comfortable that what you want will be less. Be prepared to wait until inside the 60 day window before giving up. Make sure you are searching at least a year out and before units from that system can be deposited. For many Marriott's that's 13-14 months, for some resorts it's 18 and for some it's 24 months.

Europe is tough, standards are different. There is essentially NO availability for Urban areas. Reward points can be the best option for many if you have a major chain. Europe is an area where I'd talk to Dial an Exchange, an independent that gets a lot of inventory there. I'd also look for a Sunterra Owner to do a direct exchange with as they do have a number of resorts though there is some question of their stability right now for the European section. Direct exchanges can be great, it's safer to travel first. DVC's BVTC has the Club Cordial resorts where you can reserve directly for some areas. Did I say standards are different.