Interesting story on "60 Minutes" tonight. .

WillyJ

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Isn't it amazing that Robert Duval was in To Kill a Mockingbird and is still going strong today?


He has been a important part in so many great movies. . "True Grit" The Godfather I and II" "Apocolypse Now" "Lonesome Dove". . and yet he's not someone most people think of when the best actors of our times are mentioned. .


Excellent bio by "60 Minutes" on him though. . :)
 
That wasn't the only interesting tidbit on 60 Minutes tonight...
 
True Karen. . but personally I'll need to see a transcipt of that and check out some things before commenting. .

Duval being a hell of an actor I know. . . ;) :teeth:
 
You know what Dr. Will? You should be a lawyer.
 

Oh c'mon Willi, let's just jump to conclusions, assume it's all true and trash Bush to our heart's content.

Isn't that how it's done?:confused:
 
Dang, I missed the Duval interview. What was the dirt on Speilberg they teased us with???
 
Originally posted by peachgirl
Oh c'mon Willi, let's just jump to conclusions, assume it's all true and trash Bush to our heart's content.

Isn't that how it's done?:confused:


I'm interested in all the dirt that is in Kitty Kelley's book that comes out next week. You know the one about the late night hookers and coke binges at camp david?
 
People will be screaming blue murder about the KK book. Her past books have been quite "sensational". But she has never been sued, and her publishers, Random House, say their lawyers have been over the content with a fine tooth comb.
 
Well I for one will have to see Kitty Kelley's book before judging whether or not there's any factual information in it. . I do know though that Duh-bya's ex-sister-in-law served at the same time in the Bush family as Boy George. . so she must know something! :eek:

:rotfl: :rotfl:


The interview with Barnes and the memos shown are devastating to Bush. . it shows he lied about using his Daddy's influence in getting into the National Guard and he used the same influence to get out of doing his duty there. .

I know it was how things worked back then, and Lord knows I'd never begrudge anyone who did what they could to avoid that nightmare.. but of course Boy George had to lie about it, just like he lies about everything else. . .

Bu-bye George. . a village in Texas will be getting it's idiot back come November. . ;) :teeth:
 
I was very impressed with the 60 minutes piece tonight. It was short and to the point, and backed up with paperwork that they had authenticated. Barnes was particularly good. He was calm, and measured, careful to stick to facts and not sensationalize, self critical without lapsing into flagellation. I could honestly understand how a visit to the Viet Nam Memorial would be an awakening for him.
 
And they have a nice video tape of him lying about it.
 
That is going to be hard to deny, 'eh LoraJ.?

Although that young water-head jabbering away like a benny-addict trying to make excuses for Bush sure gave it a lame shot. . ;) :rotfl: :rotfl:

And a big thank you to a fellow poster for tipping me off this was on. . I happened to be listening to Laura Ingrahm today and she kept saying it was going to be on "48-Hours". . . gosh, you don't think she was purposefully trying to mislead her audience into missing it so she could spin it tomorrow, do you??? :confused:

Naw, must have been an honest mistake. .


:teeth:

:rotfl: :rotfl:
 
I liked the White House communications director's comment. That that was Texas politics and we all know Texas politics are dirty. Er, um....
 
Will those who investigated and debunk this story be given the same consideration as those fine journalists that debunked the SwftVets, I wonder:

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”

So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”

Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.

The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.

And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry’s.

In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”

Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.

That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.

And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.


Byron York is a White House correspondent for National Review. His column appears in The Hill each week. E-mail: byork@thehill.com













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Originally posted by Galahad
Will those who investigated and debunk this story be given the same consideration as those fine journalists that debunked the SwftVets, I wonder:
Gee...I wonder if the genius that wrote that piece knew that Shrub ALSO has been hiding an awful lot of his records...Nah....That'd be hypocritical, and we all know that Republican shills would NEVER stoop to that :rotfl:
--------------------------
Memos: Bush Suspended From Guard Flying

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Addressing questions that have lingered for years, newly unearthed memos state that George W. Bush failed to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam war, that he refused a direct order and that his superiors were in a state of turmoil over how to evaluate his performance after he was suspended from flying.


One military official "is pushing to sugar coat it," one memo says of a proposed evaluation of Bush.

"On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered," says an Aug. 1, 1972 memo by a superior officer, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who is now dead. Killian said in the memo that he wanted a formal inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the flight suspension. No records have surfaced that one was ever conducted.

"I conveyed my verbal orders to commander," Killian's memo stated.

The same memo notes that Bush was trying to transfer to non-flying status out of state and recommends that the Texas unit fill his flying slot "with a more seasoned pilot from the list of qualified Vietnam pilots that have rotated."

The Vietnam-era documents add details to the bare-bones explanation of Bush's aides over the years that he was suspended simply because he decided to skip his flight physical.

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was "for record" and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was "for 1st Lt. George W. Bush."

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

Bartlett said Bush's superiors granted permission to train in Alabama in a non-flying status and that "many of the documents you have here affirm just that."

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he "can get out of coming to drill from now through November." It says Bush was "told he could do ET for three months or transfer." ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

The same memo says "we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed" and quotes Bush as saying he would "do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status." It also says, "I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated'"

Bartlett told CBS, "As it says in your own documents, President Bush (news - web sites) talked to the commanders about the fact that he'd be transferring to a unit ... in Alabama that didn't fly that plane," the F-102, the type Bush was trained in.

Using only last names, one of the newly disclosed documents points to sharp disagreement among Bush's superiors in Texas over how to evaluate his performance for the period from mid-1972 through mid-1973.

"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush," Killian wrote on Aug. 18, 1973. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job — Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate." Grp refers to a military unit and OETR stands for officer efficiency training report.

The memo concludes: "Harris took the call from Grp today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees."

At the time, Walter B. Staudt was commander of the Texas National Guard; Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges was one of Bush's superiors in Texas who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding young pilot; and Lt. Col. William D. Harris Jr. was another superior of Bush's.



Records released this year when Bush's military service re-emerged as a campaign issue contain no evidence that he showed up for duty at all for five months in mid-1972 and document only a few occasions later that year.

Asked about Killian's statement in a memo about the military's investment in Bush, Bartlett told CBS: "For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do."
 
I saw this on the Political Animal blog and thought it was worth posting here:

This story is a perfect demonstration of the difference between the Swift Boat controversy and the National Guard controversy. Both are tales from long ago and both are related to Vietnam, but the documentary evidence in the two cases is like night and day. In the Swift Boat case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence indicates that Kerry's accusers are lying. Conversely, in the National Guard case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence provides additional confirmation that the charges against Bush are true.
 
And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.

Now see, when the writer adds that line, it gves me pause about the entire article. I know this phrase has been repeated to the point of being accepted as gospel, but it is my understanding that the only records Kerry has not released are his medical records ( nor has the president release his medical records ). And that Kerry has opened his medical records for reporters to see ( but not copy ).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4908191-111675,00.html

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/22/Worldandnation/Kerry_releases_milita.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/3645753.stm
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1201140,00.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2001909553_kerrymilitary22.html
 
Originally posted by Galahad
Will those who investigated and debunk this story be given the same consideration as those fine journalists that debunked the SwftVets, I wonder:

Actually, I don't recall the "fine journalists" being given any consideration. It was the facts, the documents and the paperwork that were given consideration.

When someone, anyone, comes up with some factual information that disproves the factual documentation that backs up the claims about Bush's service record or lack thereof, then there's something to talk about.

An op-ed piece is not factual information. Btw, what is the link for the op-ed piece you posted?


As KarenC posted...

In the Swift Boat case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence indicates that Kerry's accusers are lying. Conversely, in the National Guard case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence provides additional confirmation that the charges against Bush are true.
 












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