Interesting Rolling Stone article on college debt

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But it can work in practice. It's a matter of priorities. Don't want staggering student loans? Move somewhere else. Establish residency.

You're talking to someone who did it all themselves..I paid for my car in cash up front, I paid for the insurance for it, the gas, the maintainence, I had a job working for years at my dad's insurance office before getting a retail job at 16, I did all the college work myself, paid for college myself through my savings, my job income, and student loans. If someone like me can say "you need to also consider x,y,z" I think you need to reevaluate your 'snap your fingers and boom you're in another state with much cheaper college costs it's like magic' approach.

The fact that you phrase it as "priorities" to me comes off like you haven't fully thought it through. With all due respect I didn't say it wasn't possible but I did say you need to consider all things-if you did look at it all you may end up finding out that doing so could cost you more (you at least need to do the research to find that part out).

There have been threads in the past talking about people moving for jobs, etc and if people of all varying ages have advised how expensive moving can cost it would be all too easy to imagine that for someone who just graduated high school (even a person who took a year or two off) would find it just as expensive if not more due to inability to find a higher paying job that someone with more years and experience might be able to. Plus residency requirements, insurance rates for that age bracket, health insurance costs if the parent's insurance company won't cover them anymore if they have moved fully out of state and that makes them no longer being qualified, housing costs, etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I really can't understand why some people think that looking for cheaper options to lesson your loan burden isn't possible.

Oh no there are many ways you can lessen your burden. Moving to another state is just one of them. And my point was consider what goes along with that. For each option someone chooses they should be looking at what goes along with it. Just like they should if they are choosing to go with strictly the student loan path.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I noticed a few pages back that there was some discussion of nursing as a profession. Admittedly I only had time to skim those posts (as I was working!) although tonight when I have more time, I'll go back and read them more thoroughly. But I did want to add a few thoughts about what I saw.

Nursing as a profession has had a long and complicated history. The job of a nurse was historically very hard and thankless, so after WWII when women realized they could do other things, not many wanted to go into it anymore, and there became a shortage, especially given that people were living longer and cases became more complex with medical advances. Who was going to care for all these people? Leaders struggled with what to do. Traditional training was hospital-based, often with a 3 year diploma, but the BSN had also been around for a long time, too, often to prepare nursing educators and administrators. Many, though, advocated for nursing to be college based, so more training began moving away from hospital-only training, to colleges. Still, though, numbers were low. In the 1950s and 60s with the women's movement, they realized they had a real crisis on their hands. They began toying around with the idea of having two levels of professional nurses (RN), one as a nurse leader and one as a type of technical nurse, where training would be based in a two year college. This idea took off as they realized they could train lots of nurses pretty quickly which helped ease some of the burden, and basically it stayed. During the 70s nursing education became very fragmented when there there three entryways into the profession: the Associate's degree, the hospital diploma, and the Bachelor's degree (BSN), and not everyone agreed what the solution was to this problem. Eventually most hospital based programs closed in the 80s and 90s, and most nurses received their training in either two or four year colleges.

Fast forward to around 2005 I believe it was, when a nurse researcher found that morbidity and mortality rates in surgical patients were lower in hospitals with higher number of BSN prepared nurses. Studies were repeated with the same results. In the meantime there were lots of other changes happening in health care: hospitals and health systems realized that in order to survive, they needed to make changes to get people to choose to get care in their hospitals. Magnet Status was born, where hospitals met certain voluntary criteria that showed that they were taking steps to be the best they could be, and one of those things was having a higher percentage of BSN prepared nurses, I think they like to see it at 80% or higher. Why? Because a large part of a nurse's job is to think critically and advocate for patients. Being the people with patients the most, nurses are the eyes and ears of what goes on with the patient, and need to know not only a lot of things about a lot of things, but how to work collaboratively with all members of the health team and patients and families, etc. Not always easy waters to navigate! So pressure is there today for nurses to either start off with, or obtain their BSN. I have trained a lot of nurses and found that the BSN prepared nurse is up for the challenge of just about anything, with good training and support.

Here is a little more:

https://www.villanovau.com/resources/nursing/the-history-of-nursing-as-a-profession/#.Wh64TdFOmhA

]I]"When World War II began, nurses stepped up again. More than 78,000 nurses joined the armed forces and served in various areas, both on the battlefront and in recovery hospitals. After the war, however, the nursing profession experienced new challenges. While the healthcare system required more RNs with advanced and technical care skills, fewer young women were interested in choosing nursing as a full-time career. Despite being acknowledged as heroic work during the war, the reality was that nurses were typically paid low wages, work hours were demanding and working conditions were often very poor.

Additionally, there was debate about how nurses should be educated, what the minimum requirements for a nurse should be and how they should be divided into different specialized fields. By 1960, roughly 170 college-based nursing education programs offered Bachelors of Science in Nursing degrees (BSN). Experts determined that better educated nurses should be given more responsibilities and be given the opportunity to work in advanced healthcare fields.

Before the debate was settled, community colleges emerged as an alternative to four-year schooling. Two-year nurse training programs at community colleges offered what traditional colleges couldn’t – a cheaper, faster program that provided higher education. Community colleges could graduate larger classes and get working nurses to the bedside faster, offering relief for the on-going nursing shortage.

However, community colleges were not the long-term answer. Programs did graduate many new nurses, often at a lower cost than four-year programs, but as the health needs of patients became more complex, research studies found that nurses taught at the baccalaureate level provided better patient outcomes than nurses with a two-year education. As a result, several hospitals and healthcare institutions began requiring nurses to obtain a BSN degree."[/I]

 

[saucymb]

You're talking to someone who did it all themselves..I paid for my car in cash up front, I paid for the insurance for it, the gas, the maintainence, I had a job working for years at my dad's insurance office before getting a retail job at 16, I did all the college work myself, paid for college myself through my savings, my job income, and student loans. If someone like me can say "you need to also consider x,y,z" I think you need to reevaluate your 'snap your fingers and boom you're in another state with much cheaper college costs it's like magic' approach.

The fact that you phrase it as "priorities" to me comes off like you haven't fully thought it through. With all due respect I didn't say it wasn't possible but I did say you need to consider all things-if you did look at it all you may end up finding out that doing so could cost you more (you at least need to do the research to find that part out).

There have been threads in the past talking about people moving for jobs, etc and if people of all varying ages have advised how expensive moving can cost it would be all too easy to imagine that for someone who just graduated high school (even a person who took a year or two off) would find it just as expensive if not more due to inability to find a higher paying job that someone with more years and experience might be able to. Plus residency requirements, insurance rates for that age bracket, health insurance costs if the parent's insurance company won't cover them anymore if they have moved fully out of state and that makes them no longer being qualified, housing costs, etc.

I think we agree more than we disagree. I'm not saying it would work for everyone. I'm saying that it is an alternative to crushing student loan debt. And it is a viable alternative for many many students. It would be hard work - but if the priority is getting a quality education at an affordable price, and this is the only way for the student to do that, then they can make it happen. If the priority is getting a quality education at any cost but going where they want and doing it immediately, then the student can pay for it or take out loans for it. if they choose to take out loans for it, then that's on them.

 

[tzolkin]

However, community colleges were not the long-term answer. Programs did graduate many new nurses, often at a lower cost than four-year programs, but as the health needs of patients became more complex, research studies found that nurses taught at the baccalaureate level provided better patient outcomes than nurses with a two-year education. As a result, several hospitals and healthcare institutions began requiring nurses to obtain a BSN degree."

I was the one who brought up nursing. I don’t disagree with anything you said. I certainly recognize the value of higher education in nursing.

I was merely stating that nursing is still possible as a two-year/ lower cost career choice. Others have mentioned that you “must” have a BSN, but as far as I am aware all states only require an associates degree in order to be licensed and I believe only about 50% of RNs have a BSN. So to say that it is absolutely necessary is simply not accurate at this point in time.

Even if one does decide to go beyond the two years, it can still be less expensive than a “traditional” bachelors degree. DH got his associates (which was very inexpensive to begin with, but wound up being completely covered by his hospital sign-on bonus) and then obtained his BSN after he was already working as an RN. His employer paid the full cost. Certainly a much cheaper option than if he had gone to a 4year university to begin with at $10k per year tuition cost.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I was the one who brought up nursing. I don’t disagree with anything you said. I certainly recognize the value of higher education in nursing.

I was merely stating that nursing is still possible as a two-year/ lower cost career choice. Others have mentioned that you “must” have a BSN, but as far as I am aware all states only require an associates degree in order to be licensed and I believe only about 50% of RNs have a BSN. So to say that it is absolutely necessary is simply not accurate at this point in time.

Even if one does decide to go beyond the two years, it can still be less expensive than a “traditional” bachelors degree. DH got his associates (which was very inexpensive to begin with, but wound up being completely covered by his hospital sign-on bonus) and then obtained his BSN after he was already working as an RN. His employer paid the full cost. Certainly a much cheaper option than if he had gone to a 4year university to begin with at $10k per year tuition cost.

I think when they say "must" it's because many hospitals will not hire anymore without a BSN. This is true of where I work. That is not the case at all hospitals at this time, but is a trend, again, due to hospitals desiring things like magnet status. They even prefer to hire nursing assistants who are in BSN programs. It just depends a lot on where you are and what the competition is like in the area. If there's only one hospital around it may not be as much of an issue. In urban areas it is. Will add a supporting article later.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/06/...o-school.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

 

[mjkacmom]

That 18k quote I gave is to show that it CAN be done economically. Each state is different.



NC is very fortunate to have such affordable college options. What I am saying is that given the choice between staggering student loans and making some sacrifices to get a more affordable education, I would choose the latter. And I did move away from home when I was 17. It wasn't easy.



But it can work in practice. It's a matter of priorities. Don't want staggering student loans? Move somewhere else. Establish residency.



If their options are STAGGERING student debt and the student wisely decides that is not in his best interest, then the student should make a plan and execute that plan. No, don't "pick a state and hop on a bus". Research. Kids should know early in high school what is affordable and what is not. If mom and dad can't afford to help, the student will be on their own anyway. Make sacrifices.

I am not against student loans. I am against huge loans for the same education you can get for smaller loans. In my own local area, there is a private college that is 26k per year, tuition only. The students majoring in education there that either pay or get loans for $104k are getting the same jobs at the same schools that the students who went to the local university and majored in education for $28k.

Public tuition in my state starts at around $14,000 per year, without room and board. Dd21 goes to our top state school, but pays $550+ a month in rent for a house she shares with 5 others (its a dump). She got into a horrific accident and totaled her 15 year old beater car, now had to uber back and forth to her waitressing job three times a week. She finished her undergrad in 3 1/2 years to save money. Tuition had quadrupled since DH attended the same university.

She could’ve attended a lesser business program and stayed home, but the gamble was worth it and she accepted a great job offer starting in 2019, an offer I doubt she would’ve received if she commuted to college (she is at the top of her class at her business school, she knew she had to be).

Do you suggest kids graduate HS, look for cheaper schools out of state, move and try to find a job, pay to live independently for at least a year, as a good way to save money? I could see if you had somewhere to live for free. My daughter is an accounting major, better school will help to get higher paying jobs, help in getting better internships.

 

[okeydokey]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

 

[Jennabeth]

Articles like this really get to me. I work at a university in Michigan, in academic & student affairs budgeting, and found so many broad statements that my head is going to explode. First of all, any reserves we have are heavily scrutinized. If you build them up, you'd better have a well written plan explaining why they are high and what you will be doing to spend them down. We run monthly reports on these accounts, there is no way to hide the money. Second, it is very easy to find a college in Michigan that is well respected and "half way decent" for less than $50,000 a year. Even if they mean total, over 4 years, that is still doable if you are able live at home.

When I was a freshman the tuition at my university was $3,600 a year (for 24-60 credits). At that time state appropriations covered 90% of our operating costs, so we only needed 10% from students. Due to rising costs and cuts in state funding (AND we get less than the minimum promised to public universities), we now need student tuition to cover 100% of our operating costs because the money we receive from the state only covers about 5% of our operating costs. Tuition is now $12,000 a year and we use any money we get from the state for financial aid packages. We are basically a private college operating under the restrictions placed on a public university. And no, we cannot become private because it's written into the state constitution.

I have a high school senior who is going here thanks to my employee discount. Luckily we (my husband and I) are able to cover the cost of room and board so she can live on campus, otherwise she would be commuting. When looking at colleges, we gave her two choices, either here or CC due to costs. If she had gotten her SAT score up she might have had more choices.

I have a nephew who is looking at colleges based on extracurricular activities and programs and he will probably be $90,000 in debt when he graduates. My family looked at me like I had two heads when I said that my daughter only applied to one university because that was all she could afford. It will cost her $6,000 a year and yes, she will take out loans but will not need to borrow an amount that could hinder her for many years. I feel bad because I feel like most are like my nephew who aren't paying attention to the costs, just the school.

My dd is taking Financial Lit this year and one of her projects was to research the cost of attendance at 3 universities then figure out the cost for 4 years and then calculate the monthly payment if you borrowed the total amount. It was a real eye opening experience for her and she came home and thanked me for working where I do. I really wish more high schools would offer this course (it's based on Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace program) because it has been a reality check for her. It is nice to have someone else telling the kids the same thing we have, I think they've learned to tune their parents out.

 

[mjkacmom]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

You are lucky he can get a free ride, is that in state? I don’t think we have any free rides here (except free CC). Dd16 has great grades and test scores, I think her plan is to go for a lesser school (but good school) for merit scholarships.

 

[mnrose]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

Wow. You are lucky. Our state schools offer very, very few "full ride" merit scholarships. My alma mater for example offers ONE per year to an entering freshman (out of 500 students). Even that does not include room and board. There are 10 more "half tuition" scholarships (again, not including room and board). So, it's very difficult to get merit aid at public schools, even for well qualified students. My daughter got a small (about 20% tuition only) merit scholarship at her public college. Still waiting to hear about DS....his test scores and GPA should put him in line for a decent amount, but I'm still not expecting much more than a 20-30% tuition scholarship. With state budget cuts over the last two decades, it's a much tighter and tougher game.

My two cents would be go to undergrad at a "good" public, and come out with less debt. Grad schools are looking for students who do well at good undergrads, and if graduate school is a near certainty for him, his undergrad will ultimately not matter a whole heck of a lot. Personally, I'd always rather be the big fish in a smaller pond, than one of the herd at Harvard (or similar).

 

[Southernmiss]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

Our oldest had the same choice. We told him to go where he could graduate debt free--the in state public school. It was not really his first choice, but he did. He was our kid who changed his major 4 times. He completed his 4 years (on time) had an incredible experience, made some great connections and went on to complete his graduate degree debt free at his undergrad school.

He's begun his "real job" at a Big 4 international firm and is not saddled with starting life with debt. The place of earning his degrees did not matter to that firm. He did an internship with them and they liked him.

Without debt, the world is wide open to him. I think that's a great gift.

 

[wenrob]

Wow. You are lucky. Our state schools offer very, very few "full ride" merit scholarships. My alma mater for example offers ONE per year to an entering freshman (out of 500 students). Even that does not include room and board. There are 10 more "half tuition" scholarships (again, not including room and board). So, it's very difficult to get merit aid at public schools, even for well qualified students. My daughter got a small (about 20% tuition only) merit scholarship at her public college. Still waiting to hear about DS....his test scores and GPA should put him in line for a decent amount, but I'm still not expecting much more than a 20-30% tuition scholarship. With state budget cuts over the last two decades, it's a much tighter and tougher game.

My two cents would be go to undergrad at a "good" public, and come out with less debt. Grad schools are looking for students who do well at good undergrads, and if graduate school is a near certainty for him, his undergrad will ultimately not matter a whole heck of a lot. Personally, I'd always rather be the big fish in a smaller pond, than one of the herd at Harvard (or similar).

100% agree

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

Free ride. Unless his major is highly specialized and can’t be had anywhere else I don’t see where it would make a difference where he obtained his degree. Of course, like you say it’s ultimately up to him but I would encourage him to look at it really hard and take emotion/desire out of it.

 

[gillep]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

First, congrats to your son, he sounds like he has a lot of great options available to him and has worked hard for them.

Regarding choosing a higher optics school, this is one of those things that very much depends on the career path that the person is going for, and even then is still a gamble. I can only speak to myself and my husband, both in STEM fields, but for us there are certainly some advantages to certain schools (not necessarily even the best schools but mostly to do with the connections available at a specific school), mostly related with getting a foot in the door. just a couple examples are below, but I am sure if I asked my colleagues they could come up with more.

1. Recruiting- Many large, well known, companies do on campus recruiting. They use a variety of metrics, based on the performance of their employees that has come from these institutions, to determine which schools to go to, as they obviously can't go to all of them. My husband has done a lot of on campus recruiting, both when he was at his first job (a large multi-national well known consulting firm) and now at his current job (a very well known Silicon Valley tech company). He goes to recruit both for internships and full time employment. If one of these companies goes to your University you have a much better chance of a person actually interacting with you, reviewing your resume, and getting an interview, than if you are just applying to one of these companies on their website. My husband usually spends about 5-7 days at a university, he reviews resumes, gives resume clinics, does coding clinics (he isn't in HR he goes as a software engineer to do the technical aspects of recruiting), interviews students, hosts mixers and dinners for prospective recruits etc., this is a lot of face time with decision makers that you would not get if you didn't have this opportunities at your university. He also meets with the Comp Sci department, and discusses how students from that particular school do with the company, any trends they see, or knowledge gaps, to help inform the curriculum. Is it possible to get a job at one of these companies without this, of course, but it certainly makes it easier to be seen, especially as most graduating students have pretty similar on paper resumes, and most are still figuring out resume building in general.

2. Partnerships- In my field, I work in the biological sciences at a large graduate university, we have partnerships with a couple undergraduate universities that make it much easier for these students to either come to our graduate school, or get hired by us. We specifically and preferentially take students from these undergraduates for volunteer opportunities and internships, and most of our entry level full time employees have come from this. Some of the programs are even more formal, and allow for a seamless transfer from undergrad to our graduate school if the students are accepted into the program. I get dozens of undergraduates each year wanting to volunteer with us, but if you are not from one of these undergrads that we partner with, it is not likely we will have space to accommodate you.

Not specifically related to school but something to always keep in mind in our fields:

3. Connections- At my husband's company the #1 way that non-entry level positions are filled is by referrals from current employees. Many of my husband's classmates have reached out to him for a referral, this is obviously not a guarantee, but could be another foot in the door, it is also not specifically related to school as many of my husband's coworkers from the consulting firm have also asked him for referrals. In my field very similar things happen. Our faculty and staff often bring us CVs of people they went to graduate school with, or worked with in their graduate labs, and we are certainly more likely to consider these people for positions, as we trust our own faculty and staff to understand our needs and who many be the best to fill them.

These are obviously not things that are guaranteed, but may be something to consider. My husband and I chose our undergraduate, in part, because of the opportunities that they offered for job placement and visibility to employers and graduate schools, these were questions that each of us asked when we toured, as we wanted to know what support the school offered, who came into the school for recruiting events, and if that was historically stable. We both felt that the trade off of more debt would be worth it in our specific circumstances (we both still had scholarships and grants that covered a lot of our costs as well, especially considering that, at the time, our undergraduate was the most expensive in the U.S.) . For us, it worked out well, and we have no regrets. We both are still paying some student loans, but they are not a burden, they are direct debited each month, and are really not something we give much thought to.

 

[okeydokey]

You are lucky he can get a free ride, is that in state? I don’t think we have any free rides here (except free CC). Dd16 has great grades and test scores, I think her plan is to go for a lesser school (but good school) for merit scholarships.

Yes in state in Florida. He is a National Merit Semi Finalist with scores higher than needed for Florida and good activities and honors so he will most likely make it to Scholar level. Florida has the Beniquisto Family Scholarship that gives cost of attendance to five different State Universities in Florida for National Merit Scholars.

He wants to major in Physics and is looking at U of Chicago and MIT as well.

 

[mjkacmom]

Yes in state in Florida. He is a National Merit Semi Finalist with scores higher than needed for Florida and good activities and honors so he will most likely make it to Scholar level. Florida has the Beniquisto Family Scholarship that gives cost of attendance to five different State Universities in Florida for National Merit Scholars.

He wants to major in Physics and is looking at U of Chicago and MIT as well.

Fingers crossed, PSAT scores from October will be out soon. Just checked, our flagship school gives out $1000 a year for national merit finalists.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

My sister is a slightly different situation only because she was battling depression and refused to admit it much less get help for it but anyways:

My sister had a full ride to one of the main colleges in my state. Now she did get grants and scholarships, etc for other colleges (like Rolla for instance) she is a very smart person..academically speaking. Anyways it was beneath her in her mind to go to that full ride college...now I sorta understand only because the college was hours away in isolation but not about it being beneather her. The location was just not the best.

Anyways she was holding out on a better school. Well she did get accepted to Cornell (Ivy League) far away fom home. and though it had a great civil engineering program (what she was going for) it had a lot to do with status. About a year into it..things started to fall apart. She was put on academic probation, switched to an English major, and was eventually kicked out....because of her depression. They told her don't come back until you get help (Cornell had a very high suicide rate back then--bars on the windows for instance). She couldn't transfer her credits to another school because she owed Cornell $$. She ended up getting an accounting degree from the community college.

Now again it was a different situation because of her depression but a lot of her issues stemmed from seeking that upper school. School status in certain circles I know is something that if you have it it opens doors and if you don't well you don't have open doors. But like I mentioned before--consider all factors.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think we agree more than we disagree. I'm not saying it would work for everyone. I'm saying that it is an alternative to crushing student loan debt. And it is a viable alternative for many many students. It would be hard work - but if the priority is getting a quality education at an affordable price, and this is the only way for the student to do that, then they can make it happen. If the priority is getting a quality education at any cost but going where they want and doing it immediately, then the student can pay for it or take out loans for it. if they choose to take out loans for it, then that's on them.

I think my issue is all alternatives should still be carefully looked at. You're presenting the solution as if it's easy as 1,2,3. I would argue it would be unwise, poor advice that could lead to the individual being worse off than before, to tell someone "just find a state that has lower cost for college duh" and leave it at that. I'm not against student loans at all..clearly. For many it's a neccessity. I agreed with you when it came to looking for lower cost options where I disagreed with you is the tunnel vision approach you had to the advice.

 

[Colleen27]

The thing is, nobody ever sits these kids down and explains this. When you are that young and inexperinced, $28k in tuition seems like an impossible mountain to climb on $10/hr. I'm in my 30's now, but I remember as an 18 year old freshman, at orientation we were advised to live on campus even if we were local, and to NOT have jobs. Looking back, I realize they were likely just trying to get me on the hook for more loans, but at the time it felt like I needed to listen to what they said. Nobody in my family went to college, this was a whole new world, so the people running the place must know more thab we did. Thankfully I decided on a fair paying major that got me in and out fairly cheaply and I did work full time through college, but it could have easily swung the other way.

Actually, they were probably just relaying advice they believe predicts/influences academic success. There have been plenty of studies showing that working and commuting both increase the chances a student will drop out before finishing their degree. Whether those studies convincingly establish causation, rather than just reporting a common-sense correlation between financial stress and educational choices, is up for debate. But plenty of academic advisers and school counselors do put stock in them. And frankly, having done it both ways, I get it - it is a lot easier to haul your butt to class on a snowy winter morning when it is as simple as walking across campus vs. when it involves digging out the car and dealing with a long, slow, accident filled commute over slick roads, and a lot easier to focus on school when you're not worried about a midnight closing shift the night before an early class or having to work extra holiday hours at the same time as finals.

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

We're in a similar position with DD16, currently a junior, and she's going for the elite schools because that actually makes more sense financially. Our income is pretty average, low by DIS standards, so the need-based aid from the private "brand name" universities she's looking at give us a lower net cost than anything offered at public unis. I don't think she should be taking the long-shot academic awards at the one state university that offers something close enough to her intended undergrad program into consideration in making her school choices, because the odds of getting one are low. Merit aid is absurdly difficult to get at both the state schools we've looked at so far - a handful of large awards, either full cost or full tuition, at schools with 5000-6000 incoming freshmen. If she can get in, she's better off (will need us to pay/borrow less) at the $70K/year private uni than at the $28K/year state flagship. The way I see it, even with a 16% acceptance rate she's got a better chance at acceptance than of being one of the 10-15 students in 6,000 to get significant merit aid from the public school.

 

[LSUmiss]

This is a topic very near to me. I have a Senior in High School applying to College now. He can most likely get a free ride to a good Public University on Merit Scholarships, but has the desire and the smarts to do well in a top tier University that may offer substantial need based aid. There would be a gap however that he would need to fill with some loans. Would it worth it for his future to graduate from say a Harvard type College with some debt, or a state school without debt? Would the private give him as advantage in future grad school placement or career? Hard to say, but he will need to make that decision.

I think it 100% depends on his major & career path & area he plans to work. Here, in my field, the top state school has a much better graduate program than the private university that offers the same program. It’s rumored that they’ll accept anyone who applies & can pay whereas the state school is more selective. The state school has a much higher pass rate for the profession’s licensing exam. I’ve hired staff in my field before & was always much more impressed with those who came out of the state school.