Interesting Rolling Stone article on college debt

[LSUmiss]

Well I guess I didn't know that. All I know is in the mid 80's when I was in college we all worked and paid our way. I honestly don't know ANY of my friends that had loans, and I was in a sorority so I had a lot of friends.ha

I guess I don't know who had pell grants, I never did, and I "think" we were all around the same income bracket. Loans just weren't in my world then. I'm not really sure when I started hearing about kids getting loans for college??? 2000's I guess.

But college was most likely more affordable then so working was a viable option.

 

[wenrob]

The variation of costs to attend Canadian universities is much smaller than in the US. Macleans Magazine calculated attending the most expensive away-from-home university would cost $23,485 and the cheapest would be $11,556 for tuition, rent, groceries, food on campus, traveling home, books, alcohol, daily travel and extracurriculars. The most expensive live-at-home university would be $12,300 and the least $4,284 (those costs are for tuition, food, daily travel, books, alcohol and extracurricular activities.) That's for every university in the country, doesn't include scholarships or aid, and is in Canadian dollars (1 CAD = 0.80 USD) Our student aid system is very different as well.

I'm not sure what province star2232 lives in, but in NS we are experiencing a shortage of some teaching specialties for the first time due to incrased depand because of classroom size caps. A full time permanent teacher starts at about $56K and tops out just under $100K depending on experience and education. It could be more for an administrator. Teachers need bachelors degree + a teaching degree that usually takes an additional two years. Most newly graduated teachers will sub for a couple years before getting a full time gig - math and french are in high demand and more likely to get a contract quickly.

M.

Alcohol is figured into the budget?

 

[maddiel]

Alcohol is figured into the budget?

Thus I consider their estimates fairly realistic....

M.

(Don't forget, the drinking age in Canada is either 18 or 19 depending on the province and booze is more expensive.)

 

[Colleen27]

Well I guess I didn't know that. All I know is in the mid 80's when I was in college we all worked and paid our way. I honestly don't know ANY of my friends that had loans, and I was in a sorority so I had a lot of friends.ha

I guess I don't know who had pell grants, I never did, and I "think" we were all around the same income bracket. Loans just weren't in my world then. I'm not really sure when I started hearing about kids getting loans for college??? 2000's I guess.

Just to give it some perspective... In 1985, the average public university tuition cost $2800 and the max Pell grant was $3600. Today, the average public university costs just shy of $10,000 (all these numbers are tuition alone, not books/housing/fees) and the max Pell grant is $5800.

 

[wenrob]

Thus I consider their estimates fairly realistic....

M.

(Don't forget, the drinking age in Canada is either 18 or 19 depending on the province and booze is more expensive.)

It’s definitely an eyes wide open approach.

 

[disykat]

Well I guess I didn't know that. All I know is in the mid 80's when I was in college we all worked and paid our way. I honestly don't know ANY of my friends that had loans, and I was in a sorority so I had a lot of friends.ha

I guess I don't know who had pell grants, I never did, and I "think" we were all around the same income bracket. Loans just weren't in my world then. I'm not really sure when I started hearing about kids getting loans for college??? 2000's I guess.

My husband's family had no money and he was a first generation student. He went to school on grants and loans in the 80's. At the time, he had to sign papers with the amount of the loans on it so none of it was a surprise to him. Like I said, he was poor. In his case (and in my father's case a generation before) that made him hyper aware of how much money he was going to have to pay back. The amounts weren't as steep as they are now, but I believe the process was the same. The thing that seems to have changed is that students seem unfazed by the amounts and just assume they'll be able to pay it back. At the time he came out of college with 10K in federal loans and a STEM job making 32K. Not so terribly dissimilar to someone who takes the federal loans of approx. 27K now and gets a new STEM job making 82K. (My numbers are from my area and I know them because DH and son who recently graduated have same degree.) The problem comes when students get all sorts of private loans on top of the federal loans. The reality is if you can can't qualify for some sort of scholarships and/or merit aide, or don't have some parental help, you can't afford the normal college "experience." You have to be willing to settle and make some compromises. Everyone agrees college is expensive, the only difference in opinion here is whether the expectation should be that students should continue by using private loans.

In my experience, it's not the disadvantaged kids that have problems. There are programs for them. Those that I see having problems are kids with a high expected family contribution that their family can't (or in some cases just won't) meet. Those are the kids I see continuing and ignoring the mounting loans. Where I live, it's not uncommon at all for kids from families that are less financially fortunate to make much wiser choices and compromises. It's the kids who have always had money that have issues. They just don't seem to "get" it.

My kids knew we could help, but we were also clear with them that they would lose all parental backing if they started taking private loans because we simply don't approve and would do whatever we could to keep them from making what we see as a big mistake. They had some colleges on their wish list that didn't make the cut. The federal loans are limited for a reason. I honestly have yet to figure out HOW students get those private loans - unless parents are cosigning? I just looked at the federal loan webpage and it does look like you can take unsubsidized loans at a higher amount there, but there are all sorts of written warnings, graphics, and videos about how loans work and how dangerous it can be to take out more than you will be able to pay.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Students get statements from their student loan providers advising them of their balances, I believe after every semester. There really is no excuse for not knowing how much you have in student loans. Although, I believe few actually read their statements so remain ignorant.

I don't know how we can solve this problem guys. I think things got out of hand when the government got into the loan business. Maybe if we didn't fill out the fafsa and have an option to get loans the Universities would have to lower tuition or have no students.

Part of my issue is the structure of FAFSA. It's a complete disadvantage to those whose parents are not contributing for college since it includes their income. To the government I was able to file my personal income tax as a single the year I entered college but to the government for college financials I was a dependent still.

Well I guess I didn't know that. All I know is in the mid 80's when I was in college we all worked and paid our way. I honestly don't know ANY of my friends that had loans, and I was in a sorority so I had a lot of friends.ha

I guess I don't know who had pell grants, I never did, and I "think" we were all around the same income bracket. Loans just weren't in my world then. I'm not really sure when I started hearing about kids getting loans for college??? 2000's I guess.

College was as a whole probably more affordable a while back. I do know I did get Pell Grants each year.

My alma mater my sophmore year started doing tuition compacts which means students could opt to have their tuition be the same all 4 years (you could also do a 5 year one as well) or you could opt to not do the compact. The compact was more tuition dollars typically but it stayed steady. I was ineligible for the compact though since it was only available for incoming freshman to start with.

For me my initial tuition was $192 per credit hour back in 2006. It stayed the same until my junior year where it was raised and then again raised for my senior year. I want to say I paid $213 or 218 per credit hour. My husband, who started his freshman year when the compact first started in 2007, has a per credit hour of $208 I think it was for all 4 years. The credit hour for the 2017-2018 year I believe the credit hour is now $313-$318 per credit hour. They were just awarded by the state another 6% raise I believe for next year's tuition if I remember correctly. The reason the University sought to raise tuition was because funds kept being taken away from them. Now I have no idea if they are secretly stashing money as mentioned in the article but I do have no doubt due to the political climate of my state that education funds were being taken away because of state budgetary issues.

And as been mentioned the tuition is just one component. Add in housing, meal plans, books, course fees, school supplies including if you need computers and printers, etc.

 

[runwad]

Just to give it some perspective... In 1985, the average public university tuition cost $2800 and the max Pell grant was $3600. Today, the average public university costs just shy of $10,000 (all these numbers are tuition alone, not books/housing/fees) and the max Pell grant is $5800.

Yep that's about right, I graduated in 1988 and my tuition for all 4 years was $12,000. I'm still having a bit of a disconnect on why the tuition jumped so much if it wasn't for the fact that the government started handing out all these loans. And really not as many kids went to college back then to get pell grants compared to the numbers in college today. I hear about the cut in state funding, but honestly I have no clue who much money the states paid toward college anyway

 

[Turn the Page]

Well I guess I didn't know that. All I know is in the mid 80's when I was in college we all worked and paid our way. I honestly don't know ANY of my friends that had loans, and I was in a sorority so I had a lot of friends.ha

I guess I don't know who had pell grants, I never did, and I "think" we were all around the same income bracket. Loans just weren't in my world then. I'm not really sure when I started hearing about kids getting loans for college??? 2000's I guess.

I graduated from high school is 2001. I remember my high school biology teacher talking to us about this very issue and said that when she went to school, also likely in the '80's. You could work during the summer and make enough to pay tuition and room and board at state schools. You had to live frugally, but you could do it. Even back then she was just shaking her head saying you can't do that anymore. The price of a college education has just skyrocketed while wages for college kids in the summer have stagnated. And the problem has only gotten worse.

 

[GreatLakes]

There are plenty of ways to get a college degree and graduate with no debt. I did it myself this millennium so it isn't just an 80's thing. I lived at home and worked a full time job year round, not just a minimum wage job for a few months in the summer. Managed to pay as I went without any monetary help from loans or family.

I'm getting a graduate degree now fully funded by my employer because I made sure that was a part of my benefits package before making my last move.

As a pp stated many of these huge debts are from a lack of planning or understanding finances. If you have 5 colleges within driving distance of your house there is no reason to take on loans to go live somewhere else. If you do that was a choice you made knowing the consequences. If you need to work a few years between high school and college or take some part time classes at a community college before transferring do that.

Just don't make the least financially sound decision and then whine about the debt you knowingly (and often stupidly) signed up for.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

There are plenty of ways to get a college degree and graduate with no debt. I did it myself this millennium so it isn't just an 80's thing. I lived at home and worked a full time job year round, not just a minimum wage job for a few months in the summer. Managed to pay as I went without any monetary help from loans or family.

I'm getting a graduate degree now fully funded by my employer because I made sure that was a part of my benefits package before making my last move.

As a pp stated many of these huge debts are from a lack of planning or understanding finances. If you have 5 colleges within driving distance of your house there is no reason to take on loans to go live somewhere else. If you do that was a choice you made knowing the consequences. If you need to work a few years between high school and college or take some part time classes at a community college before transferring do that.

Just don't make the least financially sound decision and then whine about the debt you knowingly (and often stupidly) signed up for.

I racked up a ton of hours when I worked full-time, 2nd shift and my employer paid my tuition. Oddly enough, I had to quit school due to a promotion (too much travel) LOL.

 

[LSUmiss]

There are plenty of ways to get a college degree and graduate with no debt. I did it myself this millennium so it isn't just an 80's thing. I lived at home and worked a full time job year round, not just a minimum wage job for a few months in the summer. Managed to pay as I went without any monetary help from loans or family.

I'm getting a graduate degree now fully funded by my employer because I made sure that was a part of my benefits package before making my last move.

As a pp stated many of these huge debts are from a lack of planning or understanding finances. If you have 5 colleges within driving distance of your house there is no reason to take on loans to go live somewhere else. If you do that was a choice you made knowing the consequences. If you need to work a few years between high school and college or take some part time classes at a community college before transferring do that.

Just don't make the least financially sound decision and then whine about the debt you knowingly (and often stupidly) signed up for.

Living at home IS help from family. Not everyone has that luxury. I get that ppl work hard & make sacrifices & some ppl don’t. However, there are a lot of ppl who end having to take loans that also made sacrifices or did the best they could with the resources they had. What bothers me is the assumption that b/c some can do it, everyone should be able to & therfore they’re at fault if they end up less fortunate. But, then again, ppl use that logic for a lot of circumstances not just paying for college.

 

[disykat]

Again, no one is saying it is easy to get out debt free - just that there are ways to minimize the debt you incur. I don't get it when I see 130K (or some other random huge number) in debt for an undergrad degree. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Christine]

I tend to think of medical careers as more of a “trade” and I think those are often more appealing to women than trades like electrician or mechanic.

I’m sure someone will be offended by that, but my husband is a nurse and we both consider nursing to fall under the “trade” category based on our personal experience.

Oh, I thought we were looking for ways that girls/women can have a career without college. In my area, nurses need at least a bachelor's degree. I know that wasn't always the case. My SIL (who is 60) was able to be an RN back in the day with an associate's degree from community college.

 

[mnrose]

Well I guess I didn't know that. All I know is in the mid 80's when I was in college we all worked and paid our way. I honestly don't know ANY of my friends that had loans, and I was in a sorority so I had a lot of friends.ha

I guess I don't know who had pell grants, I never did, and I "think" we were all around the same income bracket. Loans just weren't in my world then. I'm not really sure when I started hearing about kids getting loans for college??? 2000's I guess.

Working and paying your own way was possible back then. With tuition/room and board escalating faster than inflation and far out stripping wage increases, this is impossible now. When I went to undergrad, tuition for the last year I was there was $989 total. I made more than that working full time in the summer before (earned about 1600). Then, I had work study during the school year. I edited the college newspaper and made another $350 (I know....huge....LOL). I also had Pell Grants. Tuition at the U of M is now close to $15000 for a year (tuition alone....this is a straight up comparison of the two numbers, my last year and current). To make $15000 now in 12 weeks of summer vacation, you'd need to make $1250 per week, or over $30 an hour. Not many jobs like that for undergrads.

 

[Christine]

Working and paying your own way was possible back then. With tuition/room and board escalating faster than inflation and far out stripping wage increases, this is impossible now. When I went to undergrad, tuition for the last year I was there was $989 total. I made more than that working full time in the summer before (earned about 1600). Then, I had work study during the school year. I edited the college newspaper and made another $350 (I know....huge....LOL). I also had Pell Grants. Tuition at the U of M is now close to $15000 for a year (tuition alone....this is a straight up comparison of the two numbers, my last year and current). To make $15000 now in 12 weeks of summer vacation, you'd need to make $1250 per week, or over $30 an hour. Not many jobs like that for undergrads.

Same here. I was in college in 1981. My tuition for one semester was $500. My dorm and dining hall were about the same price. I was able to work during the summer at a minimum wage job and get most of that saved up. Books were another expense. Between my money and my parents (a cop and a bank teller), we easily afforded it.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I graduated High School in 1996 and not going to college was not an option in our household, but we didn't have any sort of college funds set up, so we had to figure out how to pay for it. I knew I wanted to be a teacher, but really wanted to go to an expensive Liberal Arts College. I went and talked to my HS guidance counselor and she told me that when I was applying for a job as a teacher, the school wasn't going to care one bit where I went to college, just that I went and had a valid teaching certificate. I took this to heart and went to Murray State University on a full tuition scholarship (my parents did pay my room and board). Had I gone to the Liberal Arts College, I would most likely still be paying on those student loans.

 

[tzolkin]

Oh, I thought we were looking for ways that girls/women can have a career without college. In my area, nurses need at least a bachelor's degree. I know that wasn't always the case. My SIL (who is 60) was able to be an RN back in the day with an associate's degree from community college.

I mentioned “medical field” which could include nurses aid, phlebotomy, dental assistant, scrub tech, etc. I think those are more popular with women than what most think of as “trades”.

That said, two years for nursing is certainly not a “back in the day” thing. You only need an associates degree (either from a CC or a nursing school) and to pass the NCLEX to become an RN. You will have more job opportunities (management, specialization, etc) and perhaps higher pay with a BSN or masters, but it is not an across the board requirement.

To me, that still falls under “trade”— two years of schooling that includes “on the job” practical experience to prepare you for a specific career vs a 4+ year liberal arts education that may or may not prepare you for anything.

 

[Christine]

I mentioned “medical field” which could include nurses aid, phlebotomy, dental assistant, scrub tech, etc. I think those are more popular with women than what most think of as “trades”.

That said, two years for nursing is certainly not a “back in the day” thing. You only need an associates degree (either from a CC or a nursing school) and to pass the NCLEX to become an RN. You will have more job opportunities (management, specialization, etc) and perhaps higher pay with a BSN or masters, but it is not an across the board requirement.

To me, that still falls under “trade”— two years of schooling that includes “on the job” practical experience to prepare you for a specific career vs a 4+ year liberal arts education that may or may not prepare you for anything.

I guess a lot of it must depend on where you live then. I live in the DC area and have a two nurse friends and was told that the BSN is required here for all employment unless you want to be an assistant of some sort. Phlebotomists and assistants in the medical field here barely make a decent wage so I have been told. My daughter did look into being a dental hygienist but in our area they are now only hiring ones with 4 year degrees. She worked for an orthodontist/dentist her first year out of college and they would not ever pay her more than $13 per hour and she was assisting the orthodontist in administering to the braces. Now this definitely must vary based on locality but I think the competition in this area is too fierce and they all want 4 years of college for these jobs. Not for phlebotomy of course, but that was a low-pay field. Certainly not on par with an electrician or welder!

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I mentioned “medical field” which could include nurses aid, phlebotomy, dental assistant, scrub tech, etc. I think those are more popular with women than what most think of as “trades”.

That said, two years for nursing is certainly not a “back in the day” thing. You only need an associates degree (either from a CC or a nursing school) and to pass the NCLEX to become an RN. You will have more job opportunities (management, specialization, etc) and perhaps higher pay with a BSN or masters, but it is not an across the board requirement.

To me, that still falls under “trade”— two years of schooling that includes “on the job” practical experience to prepare you for a specific career vs a 4+ year liberal arts education that may or may not prepare you for anything.

I'm in NJ and no one hires RN's with an AA anymore. We have RN's in my hospital with an AA that are grandfathered in but they are being required to get their bachelors on the hospitals dime.

One of the RN's that used to work here had an AA and is an RN with 20 years of experience. She applied for a job at another hospital and she got the job but had to sign a contract saying she will obtain her bachelors in two years. Other than that they would not have hired her. And they are not hiring new graduates with an AA.