Interesting politics

[BuckNaked]

So you'd rather have FEMA watching TV instead of trying to help the people. That makes alot of sense.

Not to mention the fact that it would be the most inefficient way to get help where it's needed. Say you see a guy on TV that says there are 500 people stuck in a shelter with no food or water. You shoot a relief team down there and the people aren't there.

I never thought I'd see the day where people were advocating that the government take their direction from the news media, but I guess if you live long enough...

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

So you'd rather have FEMA watching TV instead of trying to help the people. That makes alot of sense.

I can't believe you are harping upon this. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

First, FEMA should be monitoring the media - that's part of their job too. Not everyone who works for FEMA actively rescues people - any more than every person who works in a hospital sees patients.

Second, it was widely reported in the media and to say "they weren't watching TV" is just...trying to pull straws where there aren't any.

It's a very minor point that simply illustrates the overall problem with the response. I guess your expectations of what a government agency should be aware of and mine are different.

N.E.D.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

I'm not sure why you aren't getting the point that the state and local officials have to ASK FOR THE AID THEY NEED AND WHERE THEY NEED IT. They could know about it, but if the state officials hadn't made the request, the federal agencies are not going to send it in.

Which is a mistake. The president could have declared martial law if the governor was so inept she was endangering lives, *IF* that is truly what happened.

N.E.D.

 

[BuckNaked]

If I am drowning in a pool, and it's being broadcast on TV, will you wait until I ask for help to save me, even if it means you might irritate some people in the process?

Nope, I wouldn't wait. But then again, the Constitution and federal law don't control my responses when it comes to saving a drowning victim.

I never said any such thing about the governor. The HELP was delayed. The WATER. The FOOD.

Yes, it was delayed because the state and local officials were not telling the federal government where the help was needed.

If the governor was so incompetent than by darn the President should have usurped her power. He has no problem doing it other times - but when push came to shove, his administration just stepped back.

Really? And I'm sure you have an example of where the President has declared martial law or in some other manner usurped the power of a governor? I mean, since you claim he's had no problem doing it other times, you must have an example...

 

[wvrevy]

Two things:

1 - I think the point was, if the media was able to find the people at the convention center, it should have been expected that officials, including FEMA, would have known they were there. Nobody is saying that FEMA should have been watching tv. What we are saying is that you would think they woud be better informed about the situation than a bunch of reporters.

2 - As for the feds not knowing about the situation on the ground, isn't that part of what the homeland security department was created for ? So that the fed would instantly know the "situation on the ground" and be able to respond more quickly ?

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

I never thought I'd see the day where people were advocating that the government take their direction from the news media, but I guess if you live long enough...

LOL, gotta love that spin.

What I said was *IF* some joe-blow newscasters on EVERY network knew about it, I'd expect FEMA's information sources to be better than the network news.

N.E.D.

 

[Southern4sure]

I never said any such thing about the governor. The HELP was delayed. The WATER. The FOOD.

So instead of plucking people off the roofs of their home which were almost completely underwater, we should have just used the helicopters and boats to deliver food and water?

 

[LoraJ]

LOL, gotta love that spin.

What I said was *IF* some joe-blow newscasters on EVERY network knew about it, I'd expect FEMA's information sources to be better than the network news.

N.E.D.

How true.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

Nope, I wouldn't wait. But then again, the Constitution and federal law don't control my responses when it comes to saving a drowning victim.

LOL you just don't get it - and that's okay.

If I had the power the President does, as I watched in horror as people literally died in front of my eyes, I would have done whatever I could to help those people.

If that meant breaking procedure, then so be it. Even if I lost my job because of it - I'd never sit on the sidelines as the most powerful person on the planet and let people die because the governor SUPPOSEDLY didn't ask me to come help.

N.E.D.

 

[BuckNaked]

Which is a mistake. The president could have declared martial law if the governor was so inept she was endangering lives, *IF* that is truly what happened.

N.E.D.

I agree that he should have taken over as early as Wednesday, and I'm angry that he didn't. But since that didn't happen, I'm going to continue to point out that the incompetence in this disaster started and continues to be at the very lowest levels.

And you know as well as I do that you and all of the other Bush-haters would have found something to complain about in that case too. So let's at least be honest enough to admit that it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

So instead of plucking people off the roofs of their home which were almost completely underwater, we should have just used the helicopters and boats to deliver food and water?

Yup that's exactly what I said.



N.E.D.

 

[BuckNaked]

Two things:

1 - I think the point was, if the media was able to find the people at the convention center, it should have been expected that officials, including FEMA, would have known they were there. Nobody is saying that FEMA should have been watching tv. What we are saying is that you would think they woud be better informed about the situation than a bunch of reporters.

Yes, they should be better informed, but they are counting on the local officials on the ground to get them that information. Obviously, relying on those officials was a HUGE mistake.

2 - As for the feds not knowing about the situation on the ground, isn't that part of what the homeland security department was created for ? So that the fed would instantly know the "situation on the ground" and be able to respond more quickly ?

No. The role of Homeland Security and FEMA is to coordinate the federal response based on needs forwarded to them by local officials.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

I agree that he should have taken over as early as Wednesday, and I'm angry that he didn't. But since that didn't happen, I'm going to continue to point out that the incompetence in this disaster started and continues to be at the very lowest levels.

Great. And I'll point out the continued incompetence of the Bush administration. Yay for us!

And you know as well as I do that you and all of the other Bush-haters would have found something to complain about in that case too. So let's at least be honest enough to admit that it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And you know as well as I do, you and all you other Bush-lovers would defend him even if he took the American flag out on the south lawn of the white house and took a leak on it, turned around and then wiped his behind with it.

The highway runs north and south.

The difference is, if he was damned the other way - as many people would not have died on TV in front of our eyes.

N.E.D.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Let's just vote 'em all out of office and start from scratch.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

Let's just vote 'em all out of office and start from scratch.

Best idea I've heard all day!

N.E.D.

 

[Southern4sure]

I agree that he should have taken over as early as Wednesday, and I'm angry that he didn't. But since that didn't happen, I'm going to continue to point out that the incompetence in this disaster started and continues to be at the very lowest levels.

This is exactly how I feel. I am just as angry that help didnt roll in until 4 days later BUT help should have started with the local governments. Again I will say, water and food SHOULD have been at the convention center and the superdome BEFORE the hurricane hit. Esp. when your tellng your city to flee there. Exhaust every and all means to transport the sick, elderly and poor out of the city. Dont let hundreds of busses sit and become flooded...Use the darn things.

I am just as angry with the local government of LA and NO as I am with the federal government with the delays. Yes there is protocal and paper shuffling that needs to happen also, but people would be my first priority and it is obviouse people were not a priority for the mayor of NO and the Gov. of Louisiana.

 

[Southern4sure]

Yup that's exactly what I said.



N.E.D.

Ok, let them die from heat stroke and/or heat exposure.

 

[BuckNaked]

Great. And I'll point out the continued incompetence of the Bush administration. Yay for us!

While conveniently ignoring the incompetence of the mayor and the governor. Makes it easier to lay the entire mess at the feet of the President, right?

And you know well as I do, you and all you other Bush-lovers would defend him even if he took the American flag out on the south lawn of the white house and took a leak on it, turned around and then wiped his behind with it.

First, you'd never see President Bush take a leak on the flag - you would have to have a far left President for that to happen. Second, I'm not defending him - I've said repeatedly that I'm very angry that he hasn't federalized the effort due to the incompetence at the state and local level. But I'm also not going to lay all of the blame on him when it's obvious that there were multiple failures at all levels.

 

[BuckNaked]

Yup that's exactly what I said.



N.E.D.

Well, at that point, it had to be one or the other. There were only so many helicopters. So which would you have had them doing? Getting people off the roofs, or dropping food and water?

And where, pray tell was the LA National Guard from the very beginning of this? And where were the LA emergency food and water stocks for the National Guard to deliver in the early days?

 

[wvrevy]

Well, at that point, it had to be one or the other. There were only so many helicopters. So which would you have had them doing? Getting people off the roofs, or dropping food and water?

Oh, come on, Brenda, you know better than that...Not every helicopter is equipped for search and rescue. They could easily have had others out there dropping supplies until the limited number of rescue helicopters could arrive. That would have even helped in locating those that needed rescue.

And where, pray tell was the LA National Guard from the very beginning of this? And where were the LA emergency food and water stocks for the National Guard to deliver in the early days?

Now this is a legitimate question, and deserves an answer.