Interesting article about a Gay town....

[Rence]

Honestly - not trying to argue. But I was curious what you meant by the Catholic Church (as a whole) being somewhat to blame. Honestly as a Catholic, I find the church to be extremely liberal (and I'm using that word the way it is meant - not with and nasty tone). Anti-war -the whole bit.

The Pope and other church leaders have been very outspoken in opposition to same-sex marriage and even civil unions. If your dearly loved parish priest were to acknowledge that he were gay - the official stance of the church would be to boot him out - celibate or not - no gay priests.

Now I agree that the rank and file of the church is generally pretty liberal and tolerant but the official church stands are not.

It bothers me a lot that the Catholic Church is pushing for the constitutional amendmend to ban same-sex marriage. Catholic teaching says that a second marriage after a divorce is wrong too. Why is the church not pushing to amend the constitution to "protect" marriage from this scourge as well (second marriages after divorce)? If the church believes that the constitution should match church teachings with regards to marriage, why doesn't the Catholic Church go all the way?

 

[nordkin]

"Stay out of Provincetown? It's not privately owned and EVERYONE should be allowed to visit where they please without fear of being harrassed. Your attitude is as degrading and insulting as a homophobic person telling you to stay out of their neighborhood. Recheck your thinking.


As for those folks who go into P-town with that petition, yes, they're idiots. but they're idiots for doing what they're doing, regardless of where they are doing it. And yes, I do think they went in to specifically target a "gay area" in the hopes of getting that reaction so they could report it. But that does NOT make it right.

ANY type of harrassment is digusting, whether heterosexuals calling us names or we calling them names. Pure and simple, it's sickening.

Well said Rick. My partner and I were talking about this issue this morning and both of us are disgusted by the behavior and quite honestly I am disappointed with those that agree with what a group of gay people are doing in Ptown. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Chuck S]

Well said Rick. My partner and I were talking about this issue this morning and both of us are disgusted by the behavior and quite honestly I am disappointed with those that agree with what a group of gay people are doing in Ptown. Two wrongs don't make a right.

ITA. Not only do two wrongs not make a right, it adds to the fodder of Limbaugh, Fox News and the other right wing media.

 

[Psychometrika]

There are many reasonable points on here from very different positions. I'm not sure I would characterize the majority of what was in the original article or postings as "sickening". There are far worse things that happen. However, I would perhaps use the words "silly" and "unproductive". Don't forget that the trigger for this, the petion, was a hateful document. But why not use this as a eduational experience?

If I knew my neighbor signed such a thing, perhaps I'd go talk with them about it. They've seen me mow the lawn, take out the trash, lead a typical life. I've even taken care of their cats. So perhaps talking with them might help them understand my needs and aspirations. Would it change their mind? Maybe not - but standing out in my yard and calling them a name like a feeble minded adolescent won't do anything.

The worst incidents can bring out the best in humanity. Matthew Shepard's torture and death heralded a great many positive developments out of an horrific act of hate.

My hope is this...as GLBT mainstream from the ghettos we were forced into, into the outside world...we will become just another group in the pot. The adult neighbors next to me might never agree with me...but what about their children who will grow up with just a regular person who happens to be gay next to them? Will they continue to hate? Or will they see it as simply part of a diversity of life.

If folks want to get angry, and I'm totally ok with that too, do so constructively - organize, get active, do whatever - but work towards a goal beyond trying to belittle someone. When you do the latter, all you do is degrade yourself to the level of a fool. There are places for both MLK and Malcom X. We need both. But let's work as human beings towards a common good.

Now isn't this supposed to be a "fun" board about Disney?!

P.S. The only think wrong with P-Town is the ridiculous traffic!

 

[my4kids]

The Pope and other church leaders have been very outspoken in opposition to same-sex marriage and even civil unions. If your dearly loved parish priest were to acknowledge that he were gay - the official stance of the church would be to boot him out - celibate or not - no gay priests.

I understand why you don't agree with alot of the stances - but I have to disagree with the comment above. It is my understanding that as long as they are celibate and a good priest it is fine. I don't think they are against homosexuals themselves as people but homosexual acts. (I know you can argue it is hand in hand (errr - so to speak ). Everyone has urges to do at least something the church does not agree with, but it is only a no no if you act on it in the churches view. Anyway - I am in no way stating that is my personal belief , but just saying celibate gay priests are OK. and believe me, my priest would not have to admit it for someone to realize it - he is just HAPPY in the extreme.

Anyway, I am heterosexual, and I can't be a priest because I am a woman.
My husband is heterosexual, and he can't be a priest either because he is married. And I do agree, not being able to get married in the church after divorce is something that bothers me to. But as a life long Catholic, I understand what the original reasons are for the Churches stances on all of these issues. And politically correct or not, it is Church doctrine, which can't change no matter what any group thinks about it. A current social issue arrises, and the church has to say to their members -
"well the churches stance is this..." Like it or not, the Church is not going to sway in their beliefs. Catholics almost all live as close to the doctrine as they can, but there are few that fall in line on everything. My best friend married out of the church because her husband was previously divorced. She is one of the best Catholics I know. But she had to marry the man she loved, so she swayed on that one item. Many couple stick to the doctrine on everything but birth control. The church is agaist gay marriage, but I see gay couple sitting in Mass. Being good Catholics in all other ways, but this is one teaching they can't agree with. At anyrate, everyone is welcome in the church - and we are all just trying to do the best we can, but you can't change Church doctrine like you can change laws.

 

[Chuck S]

.... It is my understanding that as long as they are celibate and a good priest it is fine.

That has changed...(quoted from worldnetdaily)

The new document, prepared by the Congregation for Catholic Education in response to a request made by the late Pope John Paul II in 1994, will be published soon. It will take the form of an "Instruction," signed by the prefect and secretary of the congregation: Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski and Archbishop Michael Miller, according to the report.

The text, approved by Benedict at the end of August, says that homosexual men should not be admitted to seminaries even if they are celibate, because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder that detracts from their ability to serve as ministers, says the CWN report.

 

[Psychometrika]

Thanks Chuck - that was going to be my clarification.

My last word - let's hear it for yellow journalism. The purveyors of this silly article accomplished their goal. It has led to division even on this board with G&Ls holding differing viewpoints called disgusting and disappointing. It has led to others being called sellouts. It has led to straight people who purport to support our rights being yelled at because of a question. Who won? Nobody. Who lost? Everyone.

In a war of vengeance, there are now nearly 2,500 service-people and more than 10,000 civilian Iraquis killed. Israelis, Lebanese and Palestinians are being slaughtered needlessly as we speak. Monsoons have killed more people in Indonesia. HIV/AIDS is killing nearly half a generation in Africa. Why would we spend time on such a meaningless news article.

And finally, it's turned a discussion board with a common love of a happy place to leave troubles behind, into a nasty political discussion. We sure need more of that.