Inspired by Religion & Homophobia Thread

[Chuck S]

I have a question for Baptists...and I'm NOT picking on you, or calling you names...it is a question about the organizational hierarchy of your church.

We've been hearing for years about the Westboro Baptist Church picketting funerals, schools, government buildings, and even other churches with hate filled signs in the name of "G-D"...

Now, knowing that a very small percentage of Baptists actually agree with this tactic, and knowing that this leaves a bad impression with people of "Baptists" as a whole...is there some reason why this hasn't been addressed by a large Baptist conference or authority? Are churches required to belong to a convention or synod (Like Southern Baptist, American Baptist, etc) to be called/identified as a "Baptist" church? Do the conferences/hierarchy have very little control over member churches? I was just wondering why these picketters are allowed to continue in this matter? Most other Christian sects have to ability to sanction member churches or drop their membership in the organization - especially when the actions of such hate mongers reflect upon the organization as a whole. When you consider that almost the entire church membership consists of members of the Reverend's family, I'm trying to figure out how this meets the criteria to be called a "Baptist" church.

I don't want to start a debate, or be perceived as a "Baptist Basher"...I just would like to know why this particular "church" is allowed to operate as a "Baptist" church. He's announced that his group will picket a High School graduation. In the press release the says that the graduates are "unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouths of dragons". It just CAN'T be good public relations for Baptists as a whole.

 

[JasonLyons]

I am a Baptist, and we are one of the few denominations left that doesnt think God changes His mind. So if the Bible says it, that settles it. So because of this you might get some fakes that just want to hate and not worry about there own sin.

long post

 

[one_cat]

We are Baptists also. Our Church belongs to the Minnesota Baptist Conference which is a part of the General Baptist Conference. Every different Baptist conference/group has their own rules, they are as different from each other as Methodists are from Presbyterians. Our conference has no say or affiliation with the Southern Baptists or any the others. We just kind of share the name Baptist with them. Our conference has certain guidelines and beliefs that the churches follow but for the most part each church is independent. I'm sure if our church started doing the crazy things the Westboro Baptist church was doing however we wouldn't last very long in the conference. They do have the ability to discipline and throw out churches. I've never heard of it happening however. The one thing we would lose besides the affiliation if we were to be thrown out would be the ability to get a BGC pastor and support staff. I'm sure Westboro is not too worried about that however.

 

[browneyes]

I was brought up Baptist and all the Baptists I know would not do anything that idiotic.

 

[Chuck S]

So, what your saying is...yes, whichever conference Westboro belongs to does have the authority to sanction or drop Westboro, but for some reason they choose not to do so?

How sad that one congregation is allowed to continue to have the effect of the proverbial bad apple in a barrel.

 

[one_cat]

I'm not saying that necessarily. I don't know anything about what conference they belong to. They may have already been thrown out of the conference but just retained the name of their church or maybe they never belonged to one in the first place (unlikely). If they do belong to a Baptist conference, it's not one I would want to belong to.

 

[Chuck S]

Well, see, that was in essence my question. If they have been "thrown out of their conference" how CAN they retain the name "Baptist" in their church? No organization can decide what constitutes the right to use the name "Baptist" for a church? To put it in more "secular" terms, no branch or organization can DEFINE criteria or grant "rights" to use the word "Baptist" as a name which defines a church (not counting where it is part of a larger name like "St. John the Baptist Catholic Church" or similar). What I'm saying is, I don't think think a church can be called "Catholic" or "Methodist" or whatever without receiving permission/license/charter from some governing body, as it defines the basic rules/worship criteria for that church. If that church is denied membership in that higher governing body, it must legally surrender the name. Not the same with "Baptist"?

 

[Talking Hands]

Chuck
Any church can use the name Baptist. It is not exclusive to Southern Baptists, Mainstream Baptists or any of the other Baptist groups. This church may not be affliated with any group at all. What we call an independent Baptist.
Also at least with the Southern Baptist Convention churches are not bound by the decisions of the convention. Each church and member is autonomous with the right and ability to make decisions on their own. It is rare that a church is dropped for not agreeing with thinks like this. Now is they were to say that the Bible is not the inerrant word of God, that would get them kicked out but not much more. Really depends on how conservative the convention is being at the time.
Been Southern Baptist for years and I am sure you realize I do not agree with the stand on homosexuals.

 

[suzannen]

Chuck,
My childhood church was a Baptist church that was a part of both the Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist Convention. We were in a college town with a lot of theologians and professors and our church was considered very liberal. It was one of the first in the area to "allow" Black members. There were a lot of discussions on scripture but they did not believe that everything in the Bible should be taken literally. (They also approved of dancing and drinking unlike some Baptists.) When the church openly opened its doors and recruited gays in the community to become members, the Southern Baptist Convention "kicked" them out. Didn't really affect the church at all. Twenty years later, the church is still going strong with about 800 members. As others said, they are really run independently.

 

[Chuck S]

Thanks Lisa, that answers my question. No one organization or hierarchy actually "owns" or grants the right to the use of "Baptist". It explains why Baptist churches seem so diverse in philosophy, teachings and deeds (although most follow a fairly literal Bibilical interpretation).

EDIT - Suzanne, we posted at the same time. Thanks for the clarification

 

[manchurianbrownbear]

A few years ago the Baptist church I attend dropped "Baptist" from the name because there was a fear that when people hear the name "Baptist" they think of the most legalistic Baptists or churches like Westboro Baptist Church. Our doctrine hasn't changed, but we felt that there are peole out there who wouldn't hear our message, because of their preconceived idea of what a "Baptist" is.

I consider our church pretty conservative, we believe the Bible is the Word of God, but, IMHO, we eliminate some of the hypocrisy people often connect to Baptists. For example, we would not let someone who is a chronic over-eater stand up and preach about abusing your body with tobacco or alcohol. We all struggle with sin and we believe that, but for the grace of God, would be lost!

 

[Chuck S]

Thank you all for your responses and answers. I actually emailed them and nicely asked them what Baptist conference, if any, they were affiliated with. Their answer:

WBC is an independent New Testament church, just like all true churches of Jesus discussed in the Bible.

So they are NOT part of any conference.

 

[manchurianbrownbear]

Not surprising, huh?!