Inspired by Airline: overbooking flights

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

Last night on Airline they had another case where a family had a hard time getting on a flight that was overbooked. IIRC, they missed their connection and the only flight for them was already overbooked by either 13 or 30 people (I don't recall which they said).

Another time there was pandemonium when a flight was overbooked by 50 people.

I can understand the concept behind why airlines overbook -- sometimes people don't make the flight because of traffic or other delays, they will fly standby and take an earlier flight in the day or fly home on a different day, and other factors may keep someone from their originally scheduled flight. Even so, I would think that at some point a flight is too overbooked to be practical.

Here's my question -- by how many passengers should an airline overbook their flights?

I really don't want to start a debate on the practice of overbooking, so if we can keep the replies respectful and down to a dull roar it would be much appreciated.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by Obi-Wan Pinobi

I really don't want to start a debate on the practice of overbooking, so if we can keep the replies respectful and down to a dull roar it would be much appreciated.

But once you accept the paractice of overbooking, which I do, the only correct answer would be the last one. When an airline overbooks it is with the expectation that the no-shows will be enough to offset the oversells. That number will clearly vary and shouldn't be a static number.

I do think airlines should be required to book you (and pay the fare) on other airlines when they overbook. SW will almost never authorize using other carriers.

I also think overbooking should be more limited when the consequences of an overbooking is more serious. Being bumped on a CA to Vegas flight in which the next flight is in an hour isn't the same as being bumped on the only flight of the day between 2 cities orb umping PAX on the way to FLL to catch a cruise.

 

[robinb]

I think they should be able to overbook all they want to as long as the customer makes it to their destination the same day or they agree to wait until the next day and are compensated. Of course, last flights of the day are always problematic. I think we get half of our bumps on the last flight of the day .

BTW, Southwest's policy on involuntary bumps does make me somewhat nervous to use them. I guess we'll just have to make sure we check in early!

 

[Chicago526]

I watched last night too. My understanding is that the family did not miss the connection, but checked in for it late due to the earlier flight being late. SWA had already given away their seats and were bumping them.

As far as I know, the airlines track the number of no-shows for each individual flight, and overbook accordingly. They don't overbook for 20 seats for every flight across the board, they look at each flight on it's own. If a flight on average has 10% no shows, then they over book by 10%.

That said, I don't think they should over book by more than 10 to 15% of the number of seats even if the no-show average is higher (since differant aircraft have differant numbers of seats, a precentage works better than a hard number. 10% of 100 is 10, and of 150 is 15.). The reason is that in cases when everyone shows up for a flight, the fewer number of people who are bumped, the easier it is for the airline to get them rebooked. No flight at any time should be over booked by 30, 40, or even 50 people. It's insane to think THAT many people will no-show, no matter WHAT the average is for that flight!

I also think they should not be allowed to over booked durring holidays and other peak times. And they should refrain from over-booking flights to central and southern FL. I mean, lets face it, how many people no-show for a vacation? Not many!

 

[Deb T.]

I agree with everything said above. Plus, I don't think the last flight of the day should ever be overbooked, leaving you no other alternative than to be stuck in the airport overnight.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by robinb
I think they should be able to overbook all they want to as long as the customer makes it to their destination the same day or they agree to wait until the next day and are compensated. Of course, last flights of the day are always problematic. I think we get half of our bumps on the last flight of the day .

BTW, Southwest's policy on involuntary bumps does make me somewhat nervous to use them. I guess we'll just have to make sure we check in early!

Any airline can involuntarily bump any pax if they are overbooked.
If you read the Contract of Carraige before you buy (which no one does) it clearly states the bumping policy. This is not unique to SWA.
Check in online and you will be golden.
Airlines overbook because there are inconsiderate people out there that don't cancel and don't show up. Overbooking and overselling could be completely eliminated if people would show some consideration.

 

[robinb]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Any airline can involuntarily bump any pax if they are overbooked.
If you read the Contract of Carraige before you buy (which no one does) it clearly states the bumping policy. This is not unique to SWA.

Sorry, you misunderstood. I know any airline can involuntarily bump pax. Been there, done that, got bumped. However, the bigger airlines (United, American, Northwest, etc) have agreements with other airlines to carry their bumped passengers. I know that if I were involuntarily bumped by United that they will try to get me out on another carrier. Southwest does not have those agreements and you are SOL if you are involuntarily bumped. You're on the next Southwest flight. Of course, them's the breaks with a low cost carrier.

Thanks for the suggestion to check-in online! We'll do that .

 

[Lewisc]

A traditional airline can use unsold FC seats if they overbook coach. I was recently on a Continental flight from Cancun. Continental substituted a wide body plane for the scheduled plane. I asked and one of the segments was overbooked so Continental substituted equipment at the last minute. Do we really care about overbooking if the airline can handle the situation by using a larger plane or upgrading some PAX to first class?

Once you accept that it's OK for airlines to overbook than you really have no way to judge how many is the appropriate number (or percentage) of seats to overbook.

SW doesn't charge for changing your reservation. They don't even charge for no-shows.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by robinb
Sorry, you misunderstood. I know any airline can involuntarily bump pax. Been there, done that, got bumped. However, the bigger airlines (United, American, Northwest, etc) have agreements with other airlines to carry their bumped passengers. I know that if I were involuntarily bumped by United that they will try to get me out on another carrier. Southwest does not have those agreements and you are SOL if you are involuntarily bumped. You're on the next Southwest flight. Of course, them's the breaks with a low cost carrier.

Thanks for the suggestion to check-in online! We'll do that .

Another difference, SW will only confirm you on the next flight with available seats. Other airlines will confirm you on the next flight even if that means further overbooking that flight.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by robinb
Sorry, you misunderstood. I know any airline can involuntarily bump pax. Been there, done that, got bumped. However, the bigger airlines (United, American, Northwest, etc) have agreements with other airlines to carry their bumped passengers. I know that if I were involuntarily bumped by United that they will try to get me out on another carrier. Southwest does not have those agreements and you are SOL if you are involuntarily bumped. You're on the next Southwest flight. Of course, them's the breaks with a low cost carrier.

Thanks for the suggestion to check-in online! We'll do that .

Actually, SWA has broken out of the low cost class and is considered a Major now. They are also the only ones making money.
Very true if you are involuntarily bumped, but, if they asked for volunteers you can bet my hand would shoot up!!!!

While it is true the "majors" will try to get you on another flight with another airline, but, if I wanted to fly with the alternative, I would have booked with them. Also, you cannot be guaranteed they will have space either.

This is a no win situation, but, since they make the rules, they can pretty much do what they want.

 

[Lewisc]

Right now you can't get a boarding pass for a connecting flight until you get to the second airport. In an overbooking situation the people flying in are the most likely to be bumped yet they may have checked in for their initial flight hours early. The people connecting are not in their originating or destination city. An overnight stay would affect them the most. I can deal with not getting an "A" boarding pass, the airplane might already be boarding before I get to the gate, but SW really should be at least setting aside enough "C" passes for connecting passengers.

What happened to the family on the Airline show isn't fair and the ccompensation isn't really enough.

Gail--I book SW but if they can't get me on a flight until the next day they really should be putting customers on other airlines. I'd rather SW put me on another airline rather than having to stay overnight in Baltimore in the case of an overbooked connecting flight.

A voucher of $100 or $200 that can't be used on internet bookings/fares isn't always enough to get enough volunteer. I get to the airport early enough so it's not normally a problem.

 

[polyfan]

Lewisc- with SW you can get your boarding passes for your conncecting flight- we flew from MCO to BWI and then to ORF- when we checked in at MCO they gave us the boarding passes for both flights which were "A" - she asked us if we wanted her to do the transfer passes and she printed them right there.

 

[SyracuseWolvrine]

Personally, I actually like overbooking. I've gotten several free trips when an airline oversold and I volunteered my seat.

 

[gallaj0]

Maybe I just don't get how the airlines work, but couldn't they just sell one ticket for every seat, and if you're a no show, tough luck, you bought it and didn't show, you need to buy another ticket.

If you buy concert tickets and don't show, they don't give you free tickets to the next one, or offer you tickets to another concert. It's your fault, you pay up.

Or do they figure their model so that the only way they can make a flight profitable is to overbook and hope for no shows, and keep their money?

 

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by gallaj0
Maybe I just don't get how the airlines work, but couldn't they just sell one ticket for every seat, and if you're a no show, tough luck, you bought it and didn't show, you need to buy another ticket.

If you buy concert tickets and don't show, they don't give you free tickets to the next one, or offer you tickets to another concert. It's your fault, you pay up.

Or do they figure their model so that the only way they can make a flight profitable is to overbook and hope for no shows, and keep their money?

The no shows are usually people who buy unrestricted tickets who can get their money back. Unrestricted tickets cost much more to start with, usually business people. Some people also standby for earlier flights, leaving empty seats on later flights, so they oversell to try to get more money.

The most I've ever seen on USAir is 13. I think that may have been after 9/11 when flights were consolidated. 2 or 3 is a regular occurrence and they usually get volunteers.

 

[lkohawaii]

How early do you need to check in not to be bumped? We've always flown United...don't want to be bumped when starting my trip.

 

[DebbieB]

The key is having a pre-assigned seat. If you check-in without a pre-assigned seat and it's full, you will be on the bump list. I think they wait until 20 minutes before to look for no shows and reassign their seats. If you have a seat, I would check-in at least 30 minutes before (to check luggage they require 30 minutes). Of course, Southwest is different with no pre-assigned seats.

 

[cigar95]

Originally posted by polyfan
Lewisc- with SW you can get your boarding passes for your conncecting flight-

True - but I think it's a recent change by SW.

I fly frequently between LAX and ABQ on business. On my most recent trip, as soon as I arrived in ABQ, I went to the kiosk to get my boarding pass for the return flight. Much to my surprise, I got boarding passes for both legs of my trip. This was the first time I'd been able to do that.

As for the general topic of overbooking - it's advantageous to both the airline (avoiding lost revenue due to empty seats) and to the consumer (additional revenue helps keep costs down a bit). If the overbooking becomes a regular problem, word will get out and the carrier is going to lose business. Hopefully incidents of bumping that significantly disrupt families and others who really need to get on the flight will remain isolated incidents.

Ultimately, what consumers do with their money is the real vote.

 

[seashoreCM]

Originally posted by gallaj0
If you buy concert tickets and don't show, they don't give you free tickets to the next one, or offer you tickets to another concert. It's your fault

If you arrive a little late for the concert you can still get in. If you arrive a little late for your flight...

Disney tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

I do believe that airlines should give connecting passengers more amenities (such as hotel rooms) than passengers just starting their trip. But then who gets to decide when and whether a connecting passenger "missed" the second flight?

 

[erikthewise]

Just a joke to lighten things up...

Several years ago I was waiting for flight when there was an announcement over the PA: "Flight XXX is completely overbooked, blah blah blah".
I turned to the person next to me and asked "Does that mean that EVERY seat has been sold twice?" Turned out he was British and just replied "Quite."