Insp. by pre-marital thread... the priest said "this", I "said" this...

[Papa Deuce]

I am anti-catholic in the sense that I do not like the church itself, but I'm fine with anybody who does like it. I was once a cathloic myself.

Before Pre-Cana claesses we had a sit down chat with the priest.

He flat out told us that if we did not make every attempt to have children ( by natural ways ) then we were NOT ALLOWED to get married. "Not Allowed"? Really???? Is that true?

Prior to getting married I did not want children at all. So, I lied and told him that we would give 100% effort! I didn't mention the birth control part.

In my mind, this is absurd... wouldn't God just be happy that 2 catholics or Christians found each other? Isn't that enough to get married? Or two "good" people, for that matter?

This, was the straw that broke the camel's back and made me leave the church, even though I got married there for my wife's sake.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We weren't told that. Just asked if we agreed on each other's plans...I guess if we didn't agree with each other--that would be the bigger problem.

 

[MsLeFever]

This reminds me of a friend that constantly had people asking her when she and her hubby were going to be parents.

She would say "Try to make a baby, try to make a baby, try to make a baby that's ALL we do!"

 

[helenabear]

We weren't told that either. We also just had to agree what our plans were.

I am shocked you got married there though... my SIL didn't agree to raise the kids Catholic so they didn't get married in the church. I guess I wouldn't have lied to the priest if I were you about it.

Not all people can have kids... for various reasons beyond physical... and I know most priests & other clergy understand that...

btw, catholic with a lower case means "universal" so you might want to keep that in mind when talking about the Catholic church.

 

[buddy&wooz]

At our Engaged Encounter they had a seminar on Natural Family Planning. Two married couples ran it (and most of the rest of the weekend as well.) One couple was very gung ho about it, how easy NFP is etc, but the other couple were pretty much silent and doing a bit of eye rolling. I suspect they used an "unapproved" method of birth control themselves.

Honestly, if NFP is ok, why not the pill? Both are overt acts to avoid pregnancy! It's a stance the Catholic Church takes that I just don't understand (not the only one.)

Before someone tries to enlighten me- I was raised Catholic and still attend mass with dh and kids but I can't really say I feel Catholic anymore.

 

[Blondy876]

I am Baptist so I may not fully understand Catholicism but according to those teachings isn't sex strictly for procreation? That has always struck me as odd, as I believe that God gave us sex as a gift to be shared between two people who love each other. I think an engaged couple should talk candidly about their expectations (how much sex, children, etc) and as long as the couple is on the same page then thats enough.

 

[golfgal]

I am Baptist so I may not fully understand Catholicism but according to those teachings isn't sex strictly for procreation? That has always struck me as odd, as I believe that God gave us sex as a gift to be shared between two people who love each other. I think an engaged couple should talk candidly about their expectations (how much sex, children, etc) and as long as the couple is on the same page then thats enough.

I have never been taught that in the Catholic church. I do know one of the Lutheran ministers in our town preaches that from the pulpit-and then couldn't figure out why they couldn't have children. They have since adoped and haven't had sex since (he tells everyone he knows this). The Catholic church hang up is about using birth control. They feel it interfears with the will of God and prevents conception, well, they are right, it does prevent conception, but.... the only Catholics I know using NFP have about 7 kids.

In our premarital instruction as well as during the wedding ceremony it was presented that you would welcome children into your marriage not that we had to have children. I do know some people that still feel that "go forth and populate the earth" is the right way to go, but I think we have accomplished that, personally.

 

[alabamaalan]

Wow, I would have left without hesitation.

We have taken various marriage classes at church and most of them emphasized that you did not have to have children to be considered a family!

We did once have a physician who seemed very disturbed that we would even consider having children due to my wife's blindness.

 

[Charade]

Oh, this has Monty Python written *all* over it!

Should we sing the song??

(I know it was Protestants, not Catholics but still...)

 

[Papa Deuce]

I have never been taught that in the Catholic church. I do know one of the Lutheran ministers in our town preaches that from the pulpit-and then couldn't figure out why they couldn't have children. They have since adoped and haven't had sex since (he tells everyone he knows this). The Catholic church hang up is about using birth control. They feel it interfears with the will of God and prevents conception, well, they are right, it does prevent conception, but.... the only Catholics I know using NFP have about 7 kids.

In our premarital instruction as well as during the wedding ceremony it was presented that you would welcome children into your marriage not that we had to have children. I do know some people that still feel that "go forth and populate the earth" is the right way to go, but I think we have accomplished that, personally.

See, that I would have been ok with. Honestly I believe that certain priests and others in different churches have their own agendas. Maybe that was why we were told what we were told.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Ithe only Catholics I know using NFP have about 7 kids.

It is called Natural Family PLANNING, not natural family PREVENTENTION.

Any couple who practices NFP (properly) and has more than 2 children is always eye-rolled and disbelieved if they proclaim NFP does work. Noone wants to believe them and that is soo sad. Perhaps the method "failed" for your friends with 7 kids...but unless you know every detail of each conception (planned/unplanned, which phase they were in--if they were avoiding pregnancy, did they follow ALL the rules to try to avoid that pregancy). Consensus is to always point to failure of method..when it fails as little as the pill. You forget to take the pill, you "may" get pregnant. You fail to abstain when you have not PROVED that you are in Phase 3, you "may" get pregnant.

We are doing an NFP talk at Pre-cana in a few weeks. The couple who would do it are unable to do so--and I am glad....b/c they are pregnant with child #6--yes they practice NFP...and yes they planned #6. But I'm sure when we show up with our "2" kids in tow to give our talk....perhaps there will be less eye rolling.

You can plan 0--you can plan 10--doesn't mean the method doesn't work. In fact, for most couples who conceive with NFP--it proves that it does work!

 

[Crankyshank]

I just had to promise that I would baptize my child

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

See, that I would have been ok with. Honestly I believe that certain priests and others in different churches have their own agendas. Maybe that was why we were told what we were told.

I agree--that pops up a lot on the Catholic threads on the DIS...different parishes, different dioceses....always some priest somewhere saying something that no other priest is saying.

I'm glad you guys changed your mine--b/c those are 2 cute kids!

 

[golfgal]

It is called Natural Family PLANNING, not natural family PREVENTENTION.

Any couple who practices NFP (properly) and has more than 2 children is always eye-rolled and disbelieved if they proclaim NFP does work. Noone wants to believe them and that is soo sad. Perhaps the method "failed" for your friends with 7 kids...but unless you know every detail of each conception (planned/unplanned, which phase they were in--if they were avoiding pregnancy, did they follow ALL the rules to try to avoid that pregancy). Consensus is to always point to failure of method..when it fails as little as the pill. You forget to take the pill, you "may" get pregnant. You fail to abstain when you have not PROVED that you are in Phase 3, you "may" get pregnant.

We are doing an NFP talk at Pre-cana in a few weeks. The couple who would do it are unable to do so--and I am glad....b/c they are pregnant with child #6--yes they practice NFP...and yes they planned #6. But I'm sure when we show up with our "2" kids in tow to give our talk....perhaps there will be less eye rolling.

You can plan 0--you can plan 10--doesn't mean the method doesn't work. In fact, for most couples who conceive with NFP--it proves that it does work!

Like I said, NFP does not work as well as most would believe. You have to be very regular for that to work. Why do you think there are so many Catholic "twins" walking around (kids born about a year apart). I am Catholic, got all the "training" and still don't believe it works for most people.

 

[sodaseller]

That is part of the Church's teaching, but that does not mean to should be conveyeed directly and challengingly. Some priests are shall we say overzealous and miss the pastoral aspect of their vocation. Clericalism. Sorry about your experience

 

[golfgal]

See, that I would have been ok with. Honestly I believe that certain priests and others in different churches have their own agendas. Maybe that was why we were told what we were told.

Heck, in our own parish our priests have different ideas of what we should/should not do. One priest is ultra-conservative, very, VERY pre-Vatican II. The other priest is very contemporary with his teachings. One example, no meat on Friday's during lent. He was being asked about this and brought up an excellent point, a lot of people won't eat meat on Friday yet then they go out for dinner and have lobster or shrimp. That really doesn't hold with the idea of not eating meat as a sacrifice. So, instead of not eating meat on Friday, try giving up something you have every day, like you coffee or can a coke. It is a lot harder to do that then give up the meat. Now, that makes more sense to me then giving meat because somewhere back in the 1300's a Pope owned a fish factory and was trying to make money (which is where the no meat thing originated in the first place).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Like I said, NFP does not work as well as most would believe. You have to be very regular for that to work. Why do you think there are so many Catholic "twins" walking around (kids born about a year apart). I am Catholic, got all the "training" and still don't believe it works for most people.

Believe what you want then and continue miseducating.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now, that makes more sense to me then giving meat because somewhere back in the 1300's a Pope owned a fish factory and was trying to make money (which is where the no meat thing originated in the first place).

So he'd sell fish for 6 days during Lent?

 

[6_Time_Momma]

It is called Natural Family PLANNING, not natural family PREVENTENTION.

Any couple who practices NFP (properly) and has more than 2 children is always eye-rolled and disbelieved if they proclaim NFP does work. Noone wants to believe them and that is soo sad. Perhaps the method "failed" for your friends with 7 kids...but unless you know every detail of each conception (planned/unplanned, which phase they were in--if they were avoiding pregnancy, did they follow ALL the rules to try to avoid that pregancy). Consensus is to always point to failure of method..when it fails as little as the pill. You forget to take the pill, you "may" get pregnant. You fail to abstain when you have not PROVED that you are in Phase 3, you "may" get pregnant.

We are doing an NFP talk at Pre-cana in a few weeks. The couple who would do it are unable to do so--and I am glad....b/c they are pregnant with child #6--yes they practice NFP...and yes they planned #6. But I'm sure when we show up with our "2" kids in tow to give our talk....perhaps there will be less eye rolling.

You can plan 0--you can plan 10--doesn't mean the method doesn't work. In fact, for most couples who conceive with NFP--it proves that it does work!

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Like I said, NFP does not work as well as most would believe. You have to be very regular for that to work. Why do you think there are so many Catholic "twins" walking around (kids born about a year apart). I am Catholic, got all the "training" and still don't believe it works for most people.

Actually, it works GREAT for those who are not regular. Whether you are regular or not has nothing to do with it. It has an effective rate as good as or even better than the pill.