Not exactly neutral. Bison ate a diet that was well suited for them. They didn't need to be transported in trucks or monitored with helicopters. They didn't eat grains that created excess gas. And I doubt that the numbers are the same. Right now we feed cattle and there are all those inputs from those feeds.
I never said they were - never. I'm simply referring to plant-based eaters who now have this product as a choice. You're not objecting to vegans/vegetarians eating them, are you?
Personally, I'm in the camp that says meat-eaters don't have to eat burgers at all - let's just stop eating burgers if the environmental impact is a big concern for us.
I am not objecting to them eating them but it was not created for them.I never said they were - never. I'm simply referring to plant-based eaters who now have this product as a choice. You're not objecting to vegans/vegetarians eating them, are you?
I have stopped eating hamburgers. In fact, I’ve changed many of my habits over my lifetime to bring my actions in line with my personal beliefs and convictions, to support worthy causes, or for “the greater good.” I’m a huge believer in voting with my dollar. But how would you suggest I feed myself if I took a hardline approach to never spend money in establishments that sell meat? That eliminates nearly every restaurant and grocery store. Is it practical to limit myself to eating every meal at the closest vegan restaurant to me, 45 minutes away? Well, shoot, their food comes from restaurant suppliers that also sell meat, so I guess that’s out, too. And I certainly can’t grow enough food in my townhouse yard to feed my family year-round, so I do the practical and sane thing. I give my money to companies that carry foods that suit my dietary restrictions, and in doing so, show them (and their competitors) that there’s a market for these products.
It already exists. I used it in my kimchi soup just last week.
How so? I used to make burgers with Gardein products, now I use Beyond. I’ve just swapped one vegan burger for another, both of which have a smaller “footprint” than beef burgers. I think you already know I’m not vegan for environmental reasons (though I see that as a nice side benefit), but I’m curious how you think I’ll be causing more environmental impact by eating one processed plant-based food over another.We don't often see eye-to-eye but I have to agree with this, absolutely.And for the vegan/vegetarian market, the highly-processed nature of these burgers is actually likely to increase their "environmental impact", if that's actually something they, as individuals, care about. As I've said before, I bless anybody to eat (or not eat) anything they want for whatever reason. That the burger-substitute products are being marketed in such an ideological way bugs me though.
Their salads aren’t vegan. Not that I’d want my options limited to 60 calories worth of lettuce anyway, if given the choice.If that's the only issue, they've sold salads for a while now, as far as I know.
I'm just thinking very simplistically about eating a processed product as compared to eating plants themselves (vegetables/fruit/grains/nuts/seeds). Admittedly I have no knowledge of how one processed product compares to another for environmental impact. I'm just assuming that the fewer modifications made to anything (this would apply to meat too) between farm and table, the smaller the environmental impact would be. And I realize nothing actually has zero impact - even driving a carrot home from the store and boiling it would consume some resources and emit CO2.
Not sure if this thread is the right place, but I'm always interested in your views - are you able to give me your opinion on lab-grown meat?
I support the idea of it. Anything that could reduce, or potentially drastically reduce or even eliminate, the number of animals that are killed is a win in my book. Personally, though, I don’t think I would eat lab-grown meat. Even if no animal was harmed in the production of it and there’s no logical reason for me to have an ethical objection to it, etc.... I just, I don’t know. I can’t picture myself taking that step to eat meat again. I’ve gone so long without it that I think I’d rather keep it that way, even though I can’t quite put my finger on why. It’s like the rational side of my brain says “sure, lab-grown meat would be a good thing!” but the emotional side of my brain says “ew, no thanks.”
I think I’m content to just stick with the vegan alternatives. But I hope other people would embrace it!
I support the idea of it. Anything that could reduce, or potentially drastically reduce or even eliminate, the number of animals that are killed is a win in my book. Personally, though, I don’t think I would eat lab-grown meat. Even if no animal was harmed in the production of it and there’s no logical reason for me to have an ethical objection to it, etc.... I just, I don’t know. I can’t picture myself taking that step to eat meat again. I’ve gone so long without it that I think I’d rather keep it that way, even though I can’t quite put my finger on why. It’s like the rational side of my brain says “sure, lab-grown meat would be a good thing!” but the emotional side of my brain says “ew, no thanks.”
Thanks - informative as always! Personally, I do think an ethical and sentimental argument can be made for not eating it, if one is vegan for philosophical reasons. If one believes animals are inherently valuable in and of themselves just by virtue of their existence and deserving of a certain level of dignity - eating flesh, even lab-produced, would strike me as breaking fidelity with those ideals. Not a hill I'd die on and certainly not my beliefs at all, but if one vegan were to debate with another, I think the idea is at least logically supportable.
What purpose would it be to take a stand against the beef industry? Sometimes the choices we take are small steps that signify our approval rather than big steps meant to display disapproval. Going to a Burger King and ordering an Impossible Whopper indicates to a large corporation that there's a market for this product. A silent protest doesn't even get noticed.
I don't know if that will necessarily work that way. I would think that a number of people ordering them will be vegetarians. However, I'm sure they're doing focus studies to find out who is buying these to determine how to proceed going forward.
If my goal is to adhere to a vegan diet, how is it counterproductive to buy a vegan meal from a place that sells vegan products? Burger King (note: they’re not called Beef-Burger-Only King) has always been one of the more veg-friendly fast food chains. They’ve had a veggie burger on their menu for as long as I can remember, yet no one said a word about it. Now they introduce the Impossible Whopper and it’s suddenly “controversial.” I don’t get it.
Meat substitute: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them > operate the factory that makes the product.
The way you describe American beef production is enough to make me want to stop eating it myself when I'm down there. Don't y'all have any family farms or ranches raising herds a hundred head or so at a time off grass, hay and silage?
Well - yes. But that tends to cost a lot more. There are restaurants that will specify their meat supplier on their menus, especially ones known for primarily pasture-fed cattle with only feeds for finishing. I remember when a local restaurant called Chez Panisse pioneered this sort of display of suppliers on menus to indicate the quality of the ingredients.
