Impossible Burger

[lauracitawita]

There is one thing about this that has always puzzled me. When the Europeans first reached North America we are told there were millions and millions of bison. Over the next few hundred years these were nearly all killed. So the methane producing farm animals of today are simply replacing what was already there and the environmental impact should be, at worst, neutral!

ford family

I think there are over 50 billion land animals that are killed every year for human consumption. There is the methane issue and also all the land we clear and water we use to grow food for the animals we kill. The meat and dairy industry is a real problem for the environment.

I love that people are talking about it and asking questions.

 

[bcla]

There is one thing about this that has always puzzled me. When the Europeans first reached North America we are told there were millions and millions of bison. Over the next few hundred years these were nearly all killed. So the methane producing farm animals of today are simply replacing what was already there and the environmental impact should be, at worst, neutral!

ford family

Not exactly neutral. Bison ate a diet that was well suited for them. They didn't need to be transported in trucks or monitored with helicopters. They didn't eat grains that created excess gas. And I doubt that the numbers are the same. Right now we feed cattle and there are all those inputs from those feeds.

 

[ronandannette]

Why does everyone keep saying it is a product for vegans or vegetarians?

The Impossible Foods company is NOT creating a product for vegans or vegetarians, they created a product FOR meat eaters.

I never said they were - never. I'm simply referring to plant-based eaters who now have this product as a choice. You're not objecting to vegans/vegetarians eating them, are you? Personally, I'm in the camp that says meat-eaters don't have to eat burgers at all - let's just stop eating burgers if the environmental impact is a big concern for us.

 

[kdonnel]

I never said they were - never. I'm simply referring to plant-based eaters who now have this product as a choice. You're not objecting to vegans/vegetarians eating them, are you? Personally, I'm in the camp that says meat-eaters don't have to eat burgers at all - let's just stop eating burgers if the environmental impact is a big concern for us.

I am not objecting to them eating them but it was not created for them.

It very closely resembles cooked meat down to appearing to bleed while cooking and has a meat texture.

Vegans and vegetarians generally do not want either characteristic.

There was a minor backlash against Burger King from vegans and vegetarians because Burger King cooks the impossible whopper on the same grill as the beef burgers.

I am all for alternatives for both meat eaters and non meat eaters.

I think it is foolish to just give up on something when there is an alternative.

 

[Hikergirl]

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/sustainable-agriculture/eco-farming/eat-more-plants/

I appreciate the link, it gives me an idea of why people claim it eating meat is bad for the environment.
I personally have no problem consuming less meat however I'm not fooled into thinking that if I do, I somehow will make a difference. Unless I am growing my own food, I am still relying on someone doing one, some or all of the following- harvesting it, processing it, packaging it and transporting it. All having their own negative impact on the environment.
The argument about clearing land to grow food for animals- well count me in who doesn't see much of a difference between one kind of plant producing O2 and another. Clearing the land for farming- what is the data on that, what kind of land and how much has been cleared compared to land that is cleared for shopping malls, or roadways, or apartment complexes or high rises, airports, or places like WDW?
If people want to feel good about eating less meat to save the environment then I have no problem with that, but I need to see actual data before I would ever consider that as a reason to do it.
I happen to like meatless meals, but only because they taste good, not because they have a "greater cause" in my life.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

No. What they're trying to do is guilt trip— How is it a guilt trip? Every product advertises their perceived strengths, what they think will set them apart from the competition. If Ford advertises their vehicles as American-made, is that a guilt trip on people who own foreign cars? When Michelob Ultra advertises 64 calories, is that to guilt people who don’t drink light beer? Consumers want different things — some people care about their calorie consumption, or buying American-made, or eco-friendly options, and some don’t. It’s not wrong for a company to highlight their product’s features and if that’s not something that appeals to a particular individual, no big deal. I can’t see how one would feel guilted by something like that unless they were already insecure in their choices. market their way into charging way too much— matter of opinion. Maybe you aren’t familiar with the cost of vegan substitute foods, but the prices I’ve seen have been in line with what’s already on the market, and I don’t consider it “too much.” (But I’m used to paying that premium for vegan foods.) for what is essentially just a vanity feel good product.— this confuses me. It’s simply a new product that gives people one more option. If a new flavor of potato chips hit the market, would you criticize it as a vanity feel good product or just accept that new products come out all the time and this is just another one that you may or may not care to try? Would it make a difference if the chips were reduced fat? Then you would be inclined to criticize it as a vanity feel good product, or would you understand there’s a market for reduced fat chips and barely give it a passing thought? I don’t see why you would feel any differently about plant-based foods. No thanks. We already have plenty of products at an affordable price where people can genuinely reduce their environmental foot print.— what’s wrong with having more options, for those who are interested?

I totally agree with this.

If you really want to make an impact, just STOP EATING HAMBURGERS. Certainly, it isn't helping the planet if you choose an impossible burger at a fast food joint like Burger King or McDonald's, because let's face it, they are
HUGE users of beef and a major part of the problem. The way you spark change is to change your habits. In this case, stop patronizing companies whose bread and butter is literally the very thing you think people should stop eating.

I have stopped eating hamburgers. In fact, I’ve changed many of my habits over my lifetime to bring my actions in line with my personal beliefs and convictions, to support worthy causes, or for “the greater good.” I’m a huge believer in voting with my dollar. But how would you suggest I feed myself if I took a hardline approach to never spend money in establishments that sell meat? That eliminates nearly every restaurant and grocery store. Is it practical to limit myself to eating every meal at the closest vegan restaurant to me, 45 minutes away? Well, shoot, their food comes from restaurant suppliers that also sell meat, so I guess that’s out, too. And I certainly can’t grow enough food in my townhouse yard to feed my family year-round, so I do the practical and sane thing. I give my money to companies that carry foods that suit my dietary restrictions, and in doing so, show them (and their competitors) that there’s a market for these products.

Certainly a pork belly substitute isn't going to happen. What we would really need for something like that would be Star Trek type technoligy.

It already exists. I used it in my kimchi soup just last week.

We don't often see eye-to-eye but I have to agree with this, absolutely. And for the vegan/vegetarian market, the highly-processed nature of these burgers is actually likely to increase their "environmental impact", if that's actually something they, as individuals, care about. As I've said before, I bless anybody to eat (or not eat) anything they want for whatever reason. That the burger-substitute products are being marketed in such an ideological way bugs me though.

How so? I used to make burgers with Gardein products, now I use Beyond. I’ve just swapped one vegan burger for another, both of which have a smaller “footprint” than beef burgers. I think you already know I’m not vegan for environmental reasons (though I see that as a nice side benefit), but I’m curious how you think I’ll be causing more environmental impact by eating one processed plant-based food over another.

If that's the only issue, they've sold salads for a while now, as far as I know.

Their salads aren’t vegan. Not that I’d want my options limited to 60 calories worth of lettuce anyway, if given the choice.

 

[ronandannette]

How so? I used to make burgers with Gardein products, now I use Beyond. I’ve just swapped one vegan burger for another, both of which have a smaller “footprint” than beef burgers. I think you already know I’m not vegan for environmental reasons (though I see that as a nice side benefit), but I’m curious how you think I’ll be causing more environmental impact by eating one processed plant-based food over another.

Their salads aren’t vegan. Not that I’d want my options limited to 60 calories worth of lettuce anyway, if given the choice.

I'm just thinking very simplistically about eating a processed product as compared to eating plants themselves (vegetables/fruit/grains/nuts/seeds). Admittedly I have no knowledge of how one processed product compares to another for environmental impact. I'm just assuming that the fewer modifications made to anything (this would apply to meat too) between farm and table, the smaller the environmental impact would be. And I realize nothing actually has zero impact - even driving a carrot home from the store and boiling it would consume some resources and emit CO2.

Not sure if this thread is the right place, but I'm always interested in your views - are you able to give me your opinion on lab-grown meat?

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Not sure if this thread is the right place, but I'm always interested in your views - are you able to give me your opinion on lab-grown meat?

I support the idea of it. Anything that could reduce, or potentially drastically reduce or even eliminate, the number of animals that are killed is a win in my book. Personally, though, I don’t think I would eat lab-grown meat. Even if no animal was harmed in the production of it and there’s no logical reason for me to have an ethical objection to it, etc.... I just, I don’t know. I can’t picture myself taking that step to eat meat again. I’ve gone so long without it that I think I’d rather keep it that way, even though I can’t quite put my finger on why. It’s like the rational side of my brain says “sure, lab-grown meat would be a good thing!” but the emotional side of my brain says “ew, no thanks.” I think I’m content to just stick with the vegan alternatives. But I hope other people would embrace it!

 

[ronandannette]

I support the idea of it. Anything that could reduce, or potentially drastically reduce or even eliminate, the number of animals that are killed is a win in my book. Personally, though, I don’t think I would eat lab-grown meat. Even if no animal was harmed in the production of it and there’s no logical reason for me to have an ethical objection to it, etc.... I just, I don’t know. I can’t picture myself taking that step to eat meat again. I’ve gone so long without it that I think I’d rather keep it that way, even though I can’t quite put my finger on why. It’s like the rational side of my brain says “sure, lab-grown meat would be a good thing!” but the emotional side of my brain says “ew, no thanks.” I think I’m content to just stick with the vegan alternatives. But I hope other people would embrace it!

Thanks - informative as always! Personally, I do think an ethical and sentimental argument can be made for not eating it, if one is vegan for philosophical reasons. If one believes animals are inherently valuable in and of themselves just by virtue of their existence and deserving of a certain level of dignity - eating flesh, even lab-produced, would strike me as breaking fidelity with those ideals. Not a hill I'd die on and certainly not my beliefs at all, but if one vegan were to debate with another, I think the idea is at least logically supportable.

 

[DLgal]

@TipsyTraveler

I didn't say boycott EVERY place that sells meat. I said it just seems counterproductive to patronize BURGER King and order an impossible burger if you are trying to take a stand against the beef industry.

I also wonder how much of an environmental impact those overly processed vegetarian and vegan "meat substitute" products actually have. I mean, it takes a lot of resources to grow all those ingredients, harvest them, transport them, and then operate the factory that makes the product. Is one really better than the other?

I fully support people eating whatever they feel is right for them personally. I just don't think one way of eating is better than any other, unless we are talking about a whole, locally produced foods based diet, which most people can agree is probably the best thing for the environment. Unfortunately, the reality is, only a very small percentage of people have access to that, at least in this country.

 

[ChrisFL]

More fake news.

Do you have alternative sources, or are you just going to say that as if it means anything?

 

[bcla]

I didn't say boycott EVERY place that sells meat. I said it just seems counterproductive to patronize BURGER King and order an impossible burger if you are trying to take a stand against the beef industry.

What purpose would it be to take a stand against the beef industry? Sometimes the choices we take are small steps that signify our approval rather than big steps meant to display disapproval. Going to a Burger King and ordering an Impossible Whopper indicates to a large corporation that there's a market for this product. A silent protest doesn't even get noticed.

 

[DeniseJH]

Do you have alternative sources, or are you just going to say that as if it means anything?

Same person said cows don't fart, so...

 

[ChrisFL]

What purpose would it be to take a stand against the beef industry? Sometimes the choices we take are small steps that signify our approval rather than big steps meant to display disapproval. Going to a Burger King and ordering an Impossible Whopper indicates to a large corporation that there's a market for this product. A silent protest doesn't even get noticed.

If 20% of people order Impossible Whoppers that's 20% less cows being used at Burger King, and other fast food places will start to notice as well

 

[bcla]

If 20% of people order Impossible Whoppers that's 20% less cows being used at Burger King, and other fast food places will start to notice as well

I don't know if that will necessarily work that way. I would think that a number of people ordering them will be vegetarians. However, I'm sure they're doing focus studies to find out who is buying these to determine how to proceed going forward.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

@TipsyTraveler

I didn't say boycott EVERY place that sells meat. I said it just seems counterproductive to patronize BURGER King and order an impossible burger if you are trying to take a stand against the beef industry.

If my goal is to adhere to a vegan diet, how is it counterproductive to buy a vegan meal from a place that sells vegan products? Burger King (note: they’re not called Beef-Burger-Only King) has always been one of the more veg-friendly fast food chains. They’ve had a veggie burger on their menu for as long as I can remember, yet no one said a word about it. Now they introduce the Impossible Whopper and it’s suddenly “controversial.” I don’t get it.

I also wonder how much of an environmental impact those overly processed vegetarian and vegan "meat substitute" products actually have. I mean, it takes a lot of resources to grow all those ingredients, harvest them, transport them, and then operate the factory that makes the product. Is one really better than the other?

Meat substitute: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them > operate the factory that makes the product.

Meat: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them to the feedlot > feed them to livestock that has already themselves been transported once, maybe twice to get there > water the livestock > dispose of their mass quantities of waste, much of which ends up polluting our waterways > due to filthy living conditions, use 80% of the antibiotics in this country on trying to keep the animals disease-free and alive long enough to make it to slaughter > transport them to the slaughterhouse > operate the factory that does the slaughtering and processing.

 

[DeniseJH]

If my goal is to adhere to a vegan diet, how is it counterproductive to buy a vegan meal from a place that sells vegan products? Burger King (note: they’re not called Beef-Burger-Only King) has always been one of the more veg-friendly fast food chains. They’ve had a veggie burger on their menu for as long as I can remember, yet no one said a word about it. Now they introduce the Impossible Whopper and it’s suddenly “controversial.” I don’t get it.


Meat substitute: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them > operate the factory that makes the product.

Meat: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them to the feedlot > feed them to livestock that has already themselves been transported once, maybe twice to get there > water the livestock > dispose of their mass quantities of waste, much of which ends up polluting our waterways > due to filthy living conditions, use 80% of the antibiotics in this country on trying to keep the animals disease-free and alive long enough to make it to slaughter > transport them to the slaughterhouse > operate the factory that does the slaughtering and processing.

Yeah, I'm a meat eater but the process ain't pretty - nor is it environmentally friendly, as already discussed. I keep saying that one of these days I'll convert, good for you that you have!

 

[ronandannette]

...Meat substitute: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them > operate the factory that makes the product.

Meat: use resources to grow plants > harvest them > transport them to the feedlot > feed them to livestock that has already themselves been transported once, maybe twice to get there > water the livestock > dispose of their mass quantities of waste, much of which ends up polluting our waterways > due to filthy living conditions, use 80% of the antibiotics in this country on trying to keep the animals disease-free and alive long enough to make it to slaughter > transport them to the slaughterhouse > operate the factory that does the slaughtering and processing.

The way you describe American beef production is enough to make me want to stop eating it myself when I'm down there. Don't y'all have any family farms or ranches raising herds a hundred head or so at a time off grass, hay and silage?

 

[DeniseJH]

The way you describe American beef production is enough to make me want to stop eating it myself when I'm down there. Don't y'all have any family farms or ranches raising herds a hundred head or so at a time off grass, hay and silage?

Also, not sure if this has been put in place yet, but our government "...is working to shift inspection of beef to plant owners." (From the LA Times 4/13/19 "Pork Industry To Gain Power Over Inspections") The same goes for pork production: "Under the proposed new inspection system, the responsibility for identifying diseased and contaminated pork would be shared with plant employees, whose training would be at the discretion of plant owners. There would be no limits on slaughter-line speeds." THIS might be what makes me convert!

 

[bcla]

The way you describe American beef production is enough to make me want to stop eating it myself when I'm down there. Don't y'all have any family farms or ranches raising herds a hundred head or so at a time off grass, hay and silage?

Well - yes. But that tends to cost a lot more. There are restaurants that will specify their meat supplier on their menus, especially ones known for primarily pasture-fed cattle with only feeds for finishing. I remember when a local restaurant called Chez Panisse pioneered this sort of display of suppliers on menus to indicate the quality of the ingredients.

However, the majority of the meat sold is more or less anonymous factory farming with tens of thousands of cattle treated with antibiotics. I remember one TV show called Meet the Natives: USA where a group from the island of Tanna (Vanuatu) came to the US to meet Americans and hopefully find an American serviceman who visited the island during WWII they referred to as "Tom Navy". The first episode was where they visited a cattle rancher in Montana. Some in the group had experience raising animals. When they saw that they were only eating a diet of dry hay and silage during the winter, one of the "natives" commented that the cattle would die if that's all they ate. And the rancher answered "That why we feed them antibiotics." This wasn't a huge factory farm by any stretch, but it also wasn't some artisan cattle raising operation.

Probably the biggest buyer of meat in the world is McDonald's. Their biggest suppliers are probably megacompanies Tyson Foods and Perdue. Of course they try to dress it up, like this one on a beef/chicken operation called Keystone Foods.

https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/meet-our-suppliers/keystone-foods.html​

A few years later, McDonald’s in partnership with Keystone developed Chicken McNuggets®, which revolutionized the way Americans ate chicken. Almost overnight, a huge demand for boneless chicken meat was created.​

​

Today, Keystone's US operations are proud to produce and deliver the highest quality beef, chicken and fish products to McDonald’s, including more than 150 million pounds of beef, 300 million pounds of chicken and 15 million pounds of fish each year. They go above and beyond USDA regulations to meet McDonald's strict animal welfare, product safety and quality requirements.​

What they don't tell you is that Keystone Foods is owned by Tyson.