Imagine Key Blockout dates for 2024

[Living42Day]

You can look at Disney's corporate quarterly reports and yearly reports for some information. Like all corporations, they never disclose anything and disclosure is minimal at best.

Yeah, I checked those out before asking but it only states very general information so I wondered how that information was being disclosed about hotel demographics and where she was getting the specific information.

It just doesn't make sense that there are more people from the local area staying on-site than out of state people doing once in a lifetime trips or people that do not know any better about being able to stay off site. Disneyland would have that information based on guest addresses, but I didn't think they would release aggregate info like that to the public about where guests are traveling from. I would have also wagered to guess that most out of state people eat in the park rather than foraging outside the park into an unknown surrounding area, but again - that is why I asked because there has to be some type of information out there to make that assertation.

 

[joseph821]

Yeah, I checked those out before asking but it only states very general information so I wondered how that information was being disclosed about hotel demographics and where she was getting the specific information.

It just doesn't make sense that there are more people from the local area staying on-site than out of state people doing once in a lifetime trips or people that do not know any better about being able to stay off site. Disneyland would have that information based on guest addresses, but I didn't think they would release aggregate info like that to the public about where guests are traveling from. I would have also wagered to guess that most out of state people eat in the park rather than foraging outside the park into an unknown surrounding area, but again - that is why I asked because there has to be some type of information out there to make that assertation.

Being out of state - NY, I get emails directly from Disneyland, Disney Destinations and the Walt Disney Travel Company.
Sometimes, I get something in the regular mail. I always stay onsite. The hotels in the area are good but traveling all that way I and my family always want to stay in the "Disneyland bubble."

 

[Living42Day]

Being out of state - NY, I get emails directly from Disneyland, Disney Destinations and the Walt Disney Travel Company.
Sometimes, I get something in the regular mail. I always stay onsite. The hotels in the area are good but traveling all the way I and my family always want to stay in the "Disneyland bubble."

Same, along with our family and some friends that go to Disney pretty frequently. When we chat with others at the GCH or DLH pools it's always from places that are not in-state. I've met some people who were staycationing on-site, but not many. That is why I was unsure on the claim "The vast majority of vacationers to Disneyland DO NOT stay on property. Disney doesn't get to capture their hotel revenue, and much of their dining revenue (they eat offsite for many meals)." and wanted to find out where that data was being reported.

 

[joseph821]

Same, along with our family and some friends that go to Disney pretty frequently. When we chat with others at the GCH or DLH pools it's always from places that are not in-state. I've met some people who were staycationing on-site, but not many. That is why I was unsure on the claim "The vast majority of vacationers to Disneyland DO NOT stay on property. Disney doesn't get to capture their hotel revenue, and much of their dining revenue (they eat offsite for many meals)." and wanted to find out where that data was being reported.

We have never eaten offsite while at Disneyland. This past trip I was solo and I did not even eat in Downtown Disney.
All my meals were at the GCH, DCA and DL and I ordered room service twice for breakfast.

 

[joseph821]

Same, along with our family and some friends that go to Disney pretty frequently. When we chat with others at the GCH or DLH pools it's always from places that are not in-state. I've met some people who were staycationing on-site, but not many. That is why I was unsure on the claim "The vast majority of vacationers to Disneyland DO NOT stay on property. Disney doesn't get to capture their hotel revenue, and much of their dining revenue (they eat offsite for many meals)." and wanted to find out where that data was being reported.

Sorry doublepost! We have never eaten offsite while at Disneyland. This past trip I was solo and I did not even eat in Downtown Disney.
All my meals were at the GCH, DCA and DL and I ordered room service twice for breakfast.

 

[Living42Day]

We have never eaten offsite while at Disneyland. This past trip I was solo and I did not even eat in Downtown Disney.
All my meals were at the GCH, DCA and DL and I ordered room service twice for breakfast.

Same here, we have our favorite restaurants that we love to eat in park. We've only ate at Napa Rose once doing Chef's Counter, but everything else inside of the park. Between Carthay, Lamplight, Blue Bayou, Cafe Orleans, Oga's, and the Plaza Inn chicken, we are very content remaining inside of the park.

 

[sophy1996]

Same, along with our family and some friends that go to Disney pretty frequently. When we chat with others at the GCH or DLH pools it's always from places that are not in-state. I've met some people who were staycationing on-site, but not many. That is why I was unsure on the claim "The vast majority of vacationers to Disneyland DO NOT stay on property. Disney doesn't get to capture their hotel revenue, and much of their dining revenue (they eat offsite for many meals)." and wanted to find out where that data was being reported.

Disney has only the three hotels at DLR. Right now, about 745 rooms at GCH; 990 at DLH; 441 at PP. Even at 5 people in every room, that’s less than 11,000 people nightly (and of course a lot of rooms won’t have as many as 5). But the parks take tens of thousands (not publicly known for sure, but capacity is estimated 85,000 for DL and 51,000 for DCA). It’s reported that 16.9 million people attended in 2022. The hotels only had room for about 4 million (based on full capacity every night). So at least 12.9 million people were off-site guests. That’s a distinct majority, just based on highest occupancy for Disney hotels (which of course won’t happen).

 

[Living42Day]

Disney has only the three hotels at DLR. Right now, about 745 rooms at GCH; 990 at DLH; 441 at PP. Even at 5 people in every room, that’s less than 11,000 people nightly (and of course a lot of rooms won’t have as many as 5). But the parks take tens of thousands (not publicly known for sure, but capacity is estimated 85,000 for DL and 51,000 for DCA). It’s reported that 16.9 million people attended in 2022. The hotels only had room for about 4 million (based on full capacity every night). So at least 12.9 million people were off-site guests. That’s a distinct majority, just based on highest occupancy for Disney hotels (which of course won’t happen).

That is good information, thank you. I am curious on the makeup of that 16.9 million. Mostly MKs?

 

[Foxhound3857]

That is good information, thank you. I am curious on the makeup of that 16.9 million. Mostly MKs?

I'd be surprised if there's anywhere near that many keys in circulation. A large portion of people visiting Disneyland are tourists who only come once a year or even less than that, sometimes only once in their entire life.

 

[sophy1996]

That is good information, thank you. I am curious on the makeup of that 16.9 million. Mostly MKs?

That’s not so easily discovered.

 

[Bruno33]

Same, along with our family and some friends that go to Disney pretty frequently. When we chat with others at the GCH or DLH pools it's always from places that are not in-state. I've met some people who were staycationing on-site, but not many. That is why I was unsure on the claim "The vast majority of vacationers to Disneyland DO NOT stay on property. Disney doesn't get to capture their hotel revenue, and much of their dining revenue (they eat offsite for many meals)." and wanted to find out where that data was being reported.

There are barely any Disney hotel rooms (3 hotels) and dozens of other hotels around. You don’t have to know the actual figures to know that the majority of visitors aren’t staying on-site.

A lot of locals know CMs or executives who have access to all kinds of figures. A lead I know told me that last Tuesday was over 45% Magic Key holders. That’s not published anywhere; he was just told because it affects park operations. I know lots of random stuff like that.

 

[joseph821]

There are barely any Disney hotel rooms (3 hotels) and dozens of other hotels around. You don’t have to know the actual figures to know that the majority of visitors aren’t staying on-site.

A lot of locals know CMs or executives who have access to all kinds of figures. A lead I know told me that last Tuesday was over 45% Magic Key holders. That’s not published anywhere; he was just told because it affects park operations. I know lots of random stuff like that.

According to a few news articles, Disneyland used to have prepandemic 1,000,000 annual passholders:

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/01/disneyland-annual-pass-dead-canceled.html

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/02/...ccounted-for-half-of-attendance-analysts-say/

https://allears.net/2021/02/12/disneyland-passholders-reportedly-made-up-50-of-attendance/

One article says 50% of attendance numbers were annual passholders.

I think Disneyland wanted to lower the passholder number with the Key program so there are probably less tham 1M keys but they account for a sizeable amount in the attendance numbers.

 

[brightlined]

That is good information, thank you. I am curious on the makeup of that 16.9 million. Mostly MKs?

Keep in mind that the 16.9 million is an aggregate - I believe that's the number of people who entered a given park on any given day, so it's multiplicative. If someone entered both parks every day for ten days, they'd count 20 times in that number.

What Joseph just posted is why they can't just kill the MK program - they need it. (Most of that data is from a UBS report from early 2021, which I assume is 2019 data.)


And, not that I always agree with DLGal, but when people were handwringing during the Spring of 2021 about the return of APs, she spent the entire time telling us they'd be back by the end of the summer, and, lo and behold...

 

[joseph821]

Keep in mind that the 16.9 million is an aggregate - I believe that's the number of people who entered a given park on any given day, so it's multiplicative. If someone entered both parks every day for ten days, they'd count 20 times in that number.

What Joseph just posted is why they can't just kill the MK program - they need it. (Most of that data is from a UBS report from early 2021, which I assume is 2019 data.)


And, not that I always agree with DLGal, but when people were handwringing during the Spring of 2021 about the return of APs, she spent the entire time telling us they'd be back by the end of the summer, and, lo and behold...

Disneyland needs the revenue generated from the Keys. No question about it.

 

[Living42Day]

Keep in mind that the 16.9 million is an aggregate - I believe that's the number of people who entered a given park on any given day, so it's multiplicative. If someone entered both parks every day for ten days, they'd count 20 times in that number.

What Joseph just posted is why they can't just kill the MK program - they need it. (Most of that data is from a UBS report from early 2021, which I assume is 2019 data.)


And, not that I always agree with DLGal, but when people were handwringing during the Spring of 2021 about the return of APs, she spent the entire time telling us they'd be back by the end of the summer, and, lo and behold...

I thought that number sounded high and wondered how they accounted for multiple entries by one ticket. The true number is probably very, very complicated.

Yeah, that poster seems to have a lot of information about practically every facet related to Disney so it seems just from recognizing their name popping up on different threads over the past few years. Not a bad thing! It's always good to have people that know insider info and can share with others even if they cannot divulge what their sources are. I wish I had that kind of access, mostly because I'm curious Maybe one day!

 

[DLgal]

Yeah, I checked those out before asking but it only states very general information so I wondered how that information was being disclosed about hotel demographics and where she was getting the specific information.

It just doesn't make sense that there are more people from the local area staying on-site than out of state people doing once in a lifetime trips or people that do not know any better about being able to stay off site. Disneyland would have that information based on guest addresses, but I didn't think they would release aggregate info like that to the public about where guests are traveling from. I would have also wagered to guess that most out of state people eat in the park rather than foraging outside the park into an unknown surrounding area, but again - that is why I asked because there has to be some type of information out there to make that assertation.

You are misunderstanding what I said. I didn't say anything about the demographics of vacationers in hotels and where they come from. I said that on any given day, the majority of guests *inside the park* are from the local area. That is something Disney has talked about in the past. Most people there get in their car and drive home at the end of the day. It's around 80%. I think they define the local area as a 250 mile radius. There are 24,150 parking spaces in the three main Disney operated parking lots. Those lots, in the past, would routinely be full and close to new cars. The reservation system ended that.

I said most people who stay in hotels in Anaheim are NOT staying at the 3 Disney resorts with a total of 2200 rooms. Disney is not capturing the majority of hotel revenue. That is a math problem. There are 180 hotels in Anaheim. 90 of them are considered to be in the Disneyland Resort District. The number of rooms at just the Hilton Anaheim and new Westin on Katella match the number of rooms on Disney property. It is a certainty that guests at the Disneyland hotels make up a minority of hotel guests in Anaheim at any given time.

The people staying in hotels off property often get free breakfast or are budget conscious, so more likely to bring food to eat in the room, or stop at McDonald's across from the park on the way to/from their hotel. Those restaurants on Harbor do extremely good business for a reason.

 

[Living42Day]

You are misunderstanding what I said. I didn't say anything about the demographics of vacationers in hotels and where they come from. I said that on any given day, the majority of guests *inside the park* are from the local area. That is something Disney has talked about in the past. Most people there get in their car and drive home at the end of the day. It's around 80%. I think they define the local area as a 250 mile radius. There are 24,150 parking spaces in the three main Disney operates parking lots. Those lots, in the past, would routinely be full and close to new cars. The reservation system ended that.

I said most people who stay in hotels in Anaheim are NOT staying at the 3 Disney resorts with a total of 2200 rooms. Disney is not capturing the majority of hotel revenue. That is a math problem. There are 180 hotels in Anaheim. 90 of them are considered to be on the Disneyland Resort District. The number of rooms at just the Hilton Anaheim and new Westin on Katella match the number of rooms on Disney property. It is a certainty that guests at the Disneyland hotels make up a minority of hotel guests in Anaheim at any given time.

The people staying in hotels off property often get free breakfast or are budget conscious, so more likely to bring food to eat in the room, or stop at McDonald's across from the park on the way to/from their hotel. Those restaurants on Harbor do extremely good business for a reason.

To be fair, that statement was not included in the post I quoted so I could only go off of what you said in your original post. But that's ok, no worries. That's why I asked as a serious question from before so that I could understand what exactly you meant because it didn't make sense based on my and others experience.

 

[nalabear]

DLR clearly needs MK/APs - they just don't need them ALL the time. Absolutely in low seasons Jan-Feb, May, and Sept. The special events have been extremely popular as added revenue in over the MK/APs base that get eaten up quickly and Disney clearly preferring extending SoCal promotion for now over the MK/AP reopening to keep recurring revenue on the ticket side over the MKs.

Clearly enough off-site demand being filled as don't see prices along Harbor hotels being cut dramatically despite higher prices there. There's some softening demand for onsite stays with the hotel promotions coming a little more often on the shoulder seasons, but nothing dramatic yet. Holiday season will be telltale sign of things to come for 2024

Disney seems happy to continue leveraging neighborhood hotels for stays and only expanding on the DVC side of the house for the past decade of planning. It seems all efforts are being put into DisneyForward

 

[DLgal]

DLR clearly needs MK/APs - they just don't need them ALL the time. Absolutely in low seasons Jan-Feb, May, and Sept. The special events have been extremely popular as added revenue in over the MK/APs base that get eaten up quickly and Disney clearly preferring extending SoCal promotion for now over the MK/AP reopening to keep recurring revenue on the ticket side over the MKs.

Clearly enough off-site demand being filled as don't see prices along Harbor hotels being cut dramatically despite higher prices there. There's some softening demand for onsite stays with the hotel promotions coming a little more often on the shoulder seasons, but nothing dramatic yet. Holiday season will be telltale sign of things to come for 2024

Disney seems happy to continue leveraging neighborhood hotels for stays and only expanding on the DVC side of the house for the past decade of planning. It seems all efforts are being put into DisneyForward

I find it interesting that they extended the CA resident ticket offers into the summer this year. That's not something they had done in the past. Or did they do this for the first time Summer 2022? It's all blending together at this point. Regardless, offering discounted tickets but ONLY to So Cal/CA residents over the summer shows that they DO rely on the "locals" to fill the parks year round. These offers used to only come around between Jan-May in the past. The current offer was all summer and goes through 9/25.

My guess is that this offer is a carrot being dangled to blocked out Magic Keys over the summer. Pretty sure a lot of those people bought these tickets considering that Key discounts continue to work even on blocked out days. The only thing that doesn't work on blackout days is the parking discount.

 

[starlite_]

I find it interesting that they extended the CA resident ticket offers into the summer this year. That's not something they had done in the past. Or did they do this for the first time Summer 2022? It's all blending together at this point. Regardless, offering discounted tickets but ONLY to So Cal/CA residents over the summer shows that they DO rely on the "locals" to fill the parks year round. These offers used to only come around between Jan-May in the past. The current offer was all summer and goes through 9/25.

My guess is that this offer is a carrot being dangled to blocked out Magic Keys over the summer. Pretty sure a lot of those people bought these tickets considering that Key discounts continue to work even on blocked out days. The only thing that doesn't work on blackout days is the parking discount.

Not all locals. Summer tickets were for CA Residents, not So Cal Residents. Very slight distinction but worth mentioning it cause there were locals excluded in each.