I'm sick of waiting...

[SnackyStacky]

I just wanted to make it clear that I'm sick of waiting, and I want to read Baron's state of the parks address NOW! Any clue, Baron when we might be able to read it?!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Scoop is right, his rehab is probably still ongoing and Baron is probably in no frame of mind to write the kind of address we would all expect from him. It takes time for all that pixie dust to wear off and for Baron to determine how he "really" feels . I can't wait to hear what he has to say either .

 

[YoHo]

You don't want to read it, TRUST ME!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by YoHo
You don't want to read it, TRUST ME!

You're probably right. I figure one of two things. Either the PD hasn't worn off yet, or Baron has come back so disgusted he can't even talk about it. I'll be there in a few weeks so I will be able to confirm or deny whatever it is the Baron has to say .

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by YoHo
You don't want to read it, TRUST ME!

I'm in car 3, and believe me, very much ready to read it!!!

You're probably right. I figure one of two things. Either the PD hasn't worn off yet, or Baron has come back so disgusted he can't even talk about it.

I have a feeling it's the latter which is why I want to read it.

 

[HorizonsFan]

Baron has come back so disgusted he can't even talk about it.

Could be...
Maybe...
NAAAAAAAAHH!!!
Baron? Can't talk?
Never happen!

 

[Peter Pirate]

I do believe Baron gives his State of The Parks address after his (long) summer visit...Not his tweeners...

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Well! I can see that a little explanation is in order. So…

To answer SnackyStacky’s query directly:

I just wanted to make it clear that I'm sick of waiting, and I want to read Baron's state of the parks address NOW! Any clue, Baron when we might be able to read it?!

You won’t. And the answer is twofold. First, as my good friend the Pirate so adeptly pointed out:

I do believe Baron gives his State of The Parks address after his (long) summer visit...Not his tweeners...

Quite correct!! Unfortunately it was merely a two-day “tweener” this time and as such did not afford me the time to adequately size things up.

And second, as YoHo said:

You don't want to read it, TRUST ME!

You see, contrary to popular belief I do not post here just to rain on someone’s parade. Several years ago, my metiphoric back broke when the hours started to dwindle. That was when I took a really hard look at Disney. I examined their business “standards” and studied their philosophy. I wanted to understand my own disappointment with the company as well as how it occurred and what (if anything) could be done to correct the situation.

I was also a bit surprised at my own reaction. This was a company, after all!! A fun company I’ll grant you, but a company nonetheless!! How in the world could a “company” evoke such an emotional response in me? What did this “company” do to me over the years to instill such loyalty and emotional dedication? And I found that the answer was complex. It was many, many “things” they did. Those little, almost insignificant “things” that I labeled the “Disney Touch”.

And like physics the complex issues start to coalesce the closer you get to the core. But while eminent physicist struggle to find that elusive “unifying theory”, I (your friendly neighborhood LandBaron) discovered Disney’s “unifying theory”!! Yes! The deeper you delve into the subject the more clear it becomes!! And it all boils down to one thing. One single solitary thing. Philosophy. Walt’s philosophy! If you understand that, you understand ALL of Disney. Just that simple!!!

So, I started posting. Philosophically. Hoping, somewhere that a bandwagon could be found! Sadly, I never found it (the best I could do was a minivan car pool with the number “3” on it and a frozen head rolling around in the back seat)! Heck!! I had one hell of a time just convincing a Duck and a Pirate that I wasn’t certifiable!! (And I’m still not sure even about that!!!)

So while I was fairly comfortable in my understanding of THE philosophy, I was a mere babe in the woods when it came to understanding Ei$ner! That is until Scoop and AV came to light. AV posted, but cryptically and not very often. So when Scoop started, at first seeming to defend Ei$ner, AV was forced to use the keyboard a little more often and a little more clearly. And slowly my education began. Then even Scoop’s position changed a bit and he started criticizing “Burbank” and defended WDW management! All very confusing to my simple brain, a puzzle of sorts. But slowly the gaps started to be filled in, a piece here and a piece there, until the jigsaw began to take shape. And I gotta tell you, the picture wasn’t pretty at all!!!

[NOTE: Now, to leave the thread about a new ride in MGM as un-detoured as possible I’m just going to grab a few quotes from it that deal with my “disappointment” and lack of coherent and enthusiastic posts.]

So, my good Pirate, you say:

It may be sad. But it's also predictable. You beat the same drum over and over. See Eisner as the antichrist and give no (little) credit to anything done in the past 20 years and you're bound to start believing your clippings.

What other “drum” would you have me beat? Should I jump up and down for joy and wish everyone a pixie-dust ‘something’ (or whatever those other boards do to each other) because at the last minute they “gave” back ONE of the original THREE hours they took from us last year? Should I wish everyone a “Magical Disney Day” because we’ve heard a rumor of a little piece of gossip that maybe, just maybe Fire Mountain will someday (before we all die) actually be built!? Sorry, that’s not me and it never has been!

And I don’t see Ei$ner as the antichrist! I see him as he is. The “Anti-Walt”. His philosophy IS diametrically opposed to Walt’s. Period! ‘Nuff said!!

(Warning: Hyperbole Zone!) And I will give him credit (over the past twenty years) when he has earned it. And so far he has earned any!! (End: Hyperbole Zone!)

Mr. Crusader:

It is bound to happen when you approach this vacation with a level of expectation beyond the reality of the trip.

Interesting, and we’ll get back to this thought in a minute. But first:

It is the idealist who looks to feel magic and pixie dust from something rather than themselves, knowing full well they aren't real.

A fair statement on the surface. But let’s dive in a bit deeper. Would this statement apply equally to a Disney veteran as it would to a Disney virgin? I can fully understand someone who had absolutely no experience with Disney fitting the “idealist” you mentioned. But don’t you think a veteran is different? A seasoned Disney-ite KNOWS the ins and outs of the place. Knows what to do and what not to do. Knows what ‘magic’ Disney gives and what you have to bring with you. And knows at what level to place their “expectations” (see, I told you we’d get back to that first quote).

You see, it was Disney that set the bar for those expectations. It wasn’t me and it wasn’t you. It was Disney! The level of expectations isn’t arbitrary in someone with a thirty-year history, packed with experiences of every imaginable sort. The expectations are there because the veteran has been taught what they are. BY DISNEY!! They are NOT expectations of an “idealist”. They are expectations of a realist, with a deep understanding, knowledge and history of the place. In other words:

Disneyworld is what it is - a place loaded with options and people to hang out with on vacation. How you feel, how you respond to unpredicted events which occurred and how you choose to spend your time is entirely controlled by you.

But it is incumbent upon Disney that the options, service levels and whatever else they have done in the past in order to set the stage for that “magic experience”, remain consistent. If not, they are in danger of breaking the deal. NOT the guest!! I spend 6 to 7 grand (probably more considering current price hikes) on these ‘vacations’. I certainly have come to “expect” a certain level of service and/or amenities for that expenditure. If I don’t receive that level, it has an annoying habit of diminishing my “magical” experience. I can’t be the only one that feels that way? Especially here. Surrounded by Disney veterans!! And to say that ANYONE on this board has a “Idealistic” level of expectations is just plain wrong.

Matt!!! Thank you!! You are here crawling around inside my head. Is there an access floor that lead to the Jersey Turnpike via my brain!! (ala Being John LandBaron*)!!! Anyway - DITTO the entire post, but I will offer one quote (mainly to aggravate the president of the League of Quote Haters)

Blaming customers for not responding positively to events brought on by management decisions maybe relevant when advising somebody how to make the best of a disappointing situation. But it has little relevance when talking about the merit of those management decisions.

Bravo!!! Well said!!!

Once more for the good ol’ Pirate:

But I dispute your allegation that discussion of the negative in such great detail and with excruciating minute as we do here cannot but help to lead a person to a conclusion that they may not have come to if left with their blinders fully in tact... And certainly that conclusion would be longer in coming for most people (if you believe it is inevitable).

Is that the way you want to go through life? With blinders firmly in place!?!?! I don’t.

OK. Back to a Crusader point:

Step back and look at it closely and you see the operation in all its glory and failures. You see oz behind the curtain.

It takes all kinds to make up a world and I really don’t think my perspective is neither unique nor is it particularly mainstream. It just is. But I’m the kind of guy who HAS to know the “whys” and “hows” of a thing. When I was a kid I got into magic for a while. NOT to perform, I really hated that, but just simply to learn the ‘hows’ of it. And I found knowing the ‘secret’ didn’t ruin the SHOW for me. Quite the contrary, it enhanced it! I now had an even greater appreciation for the magician, knowing how damned hard it is to pull off a good illusion.

The same applied to films. I took that up as a hobby. Attended classes and even produced a couple of college films, two or three industrials (for cold hard cash) and even a one-hour long documentary on a school for the disabled. But the experience didn’t lessen my enjoyment of movies!! Again, the opposite! It created in me a very deep appreciation. I enjoyed knowing how darn hard it is to be Oz!!

I thirsted in the same way for things Disney (but strangely only AFTER I perceived a noticeable downward change). And it gave me a much greater appreciation for the place and for Walt in particular. The old guy (or ‘the dead guy’ as the current CEO of Disney refers to him) really knew what he was doing!!

But I suppose this type of thinking can have a downside. For as much as I can really appreciate (more than your average viewer, I think) a great film, compelling with both story and pace, or a wonderful piece of music that transcends mere pop, or even just someone who turns a magic trick into in the art of prestidigitation, I also find that I am much more hard on the hacks who turn out lousy stories, badly edited pieces of garbage, or formula musical jingles produced with a ‘wall of sound’, or the moron who let’s you see the card up his sleeve. And Ei$ner fits into the later category.

And finally Mr. Kidds:

Nah - I think I've righted my ship. However, and not because I'm developing Baronitis, a can't get rid of this nagging itch in the back of my Disney loving soul to possibly give the Universal parks a try in December. I don't want to say that Baron is right, but Disney does keep chipping.

Chip… chip… chip…

… and then there’s something I learned on my last trip down there that really set my skin a-crawling!!

{See new thread: Will the real LandBaron please stand up!}

See?!? (CHIP!!!) It all goes back to HOW the man behind the curtain works the controls, not that he is there in the first place!!!



NOTE: I still have some catching up to do on the other thread. These were copied last night and answered this afternoon. A lot has happened in the meantime!!




* Obscure movie reference.

 

[crusader]

Baron -

Astounding!

Worthy of an equally brilliant response which I will not attempt to deliver here but rather speak as candid as I may.

Why you feel such devotion to disney never had a clearly defined answer. Your sincere loyalty developed out of a love for something which harbors in your soul. You can't break that tie because it literally has become a part of you.

Is this Walt's philosophy? To build something which affects an individual so strongly they are eternally bound?

Truly outstanding and well deserving of the legacy which you so informatively reflect upon.

And now if I may delve a bit further............................

I can fully understand someone who had absolutely no experience with Disney fitting the “idealist” you mentioned. But don’t you think a veteran is different?

Yes I do but only to the extent we are dealing with an educated veteran. There are many regulars spending obscene amounts of money trying repeatedly to drink something which has no physical characteristics.

Your particular situation is more complicated. Walt had to be an idealist to dream up such a concept. That said, what does it mean to buy into his philosophy?

Are you adopting the idealistic approach and trying to lose yourself in the surreal or are you a realist who understands the ideal but sees the vacation for what it is and applies a practical reasonable approach to the experience?

I believe this will enlighten me........

They are expectations of a realist, with a deep understanding, knowledge and history of the place.

These expectations wreak havoc and cause turmoil. They are not always practical given the circumstances. If there is a moratorium on ticket prices to maintain competitiveness than in an inflationary environment something has to give. What would that something be?

I can probably guess your answer - Ei$ner's bonus and funds earmarked for other ventures. Sounds great but will never happen and isn't enough of a fix to save the butter. The parks have to operate as enterprises in and of themselves. There shouldn't be a need for any subsidy here if the revenue was generated properly. The only way to accomplish this is increase sales and/or operate more efficiently.

I certainly have come to “expect” a certain level of service and/or amenities for that expenditure. If I don’t receive that level, it has an annoying habit of diminishing my “magical” experience.

True and you have a right to feel annoyed with not being able to get what you are used to. But when did WDW become the only entity on the face of the earth where change is absolutely not tolerated or accepted. Are they so perfect and held at such a high standard they have become immune to the economic environment?

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Is this Walt's philosophy? To build something which affects an individual so strongly they are eternally bound?

You complicate unnecessarily. Walt wanted to tell the best story imaginable; to put on the best show possible. All else was built atop that fundament.

These expectations wreak havoc and cause turmoil.

No, those expectations are what keep customers coming back year after year. Havoc is wrought only when you start disappointing your customers by giving them less than they expect.

Are they so perfect and held at such a high standard they have become immune to the economic environment?

Of course not. This is not some arbitrary standard the 'Baron created from whole cloth; this is a particularly valid hypothesis for why, since before 9/11, all during the Afghanistan conflict, all during the Iraq war, and now that we are coming out of the Iraq war, Disney has been both cutting costs and losing sales consistently and coincidentally, despite the changes in economic climate.

On the contrary, I believe it is you who expects a different ruler be applied to Disney. If Waffle House began serving me smaller and smaller portions, if the restrooms are consistently dirtier than what I'm used to, I will start going to Waffle House less and less, eventually not returning at all. This is how reasonable people behave; this is the way capitalism works: you build a reputation and you keep living up to it.

I believe BStanley recently mentioned a popular working definition for insanity; and in this context many people are starting to believe that it would be insane to think they can go to WDW and get what they expected from it. That's why the steady hemorrhage of guests: most of them weren't as insane, or as unable to disguishing quality from commonplace, as Eisner believed they would be.

Other Orlando parks, Florida beaches, and National Parks and resort destinations around the country will be happy for Disney to continue to behave as if guests should have no expectations.

-WFH
www.jjewell.com

 

[Picasso Boy]

Not to be overly vague or dramatic guys,But........

Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss..........

 

[HorizonsFan]

Havoc is wrought only when you start disappointing your customers by giving them less than they expect.

Or when customers are disappointed because they expect more than you can give.
I'm not saying that's the case, just that the other extreme exists.

 

[mitros]

Holy Smoke! Give it a rest. Must you go on and on? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........ oops, sorry, how long was I out? And no, I am not going to stop reading posts, just commenting

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I am not going to stop reading posts, just commenting

Umm... thank you, I guess?

-WFH
www.jjewell.com

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK. Now we have something going here!! And I’d suggest the president of the League of Quote Haters get out his slide rule to keep track of this post!!!

Mr. Crusader:

Baron -

Astounding!

Thanks.

Worthy of an equally brilliant response which I will not attempt to deliver here but rather speak as candid as I may.

Maybe you didn’t overtly attempt it, but you succeeded nonetheless!! Very nicely put. And so, as I like to say, “Let’s dive in a little deeper”, shall we?

Why you feel such devotion to Disney never had a clearly defined answer.

It had. You just missed it or came too late. Sometimes I feel as though I’m in summer rerun season around here.

Your sincere loyalty developed out of a love for something which harbors in your soul. You can't break that tie because it literally has become a part of you.

Yes. Quite simply put, I was swept away in 1968, my first and only visit to Disneyland. I was 13. Evidently an impressionable age. I was 17 when I made my first trip to WDW and was totally captivated. To me it WAS much, much more than an amusement park. It is an escape from reality. A get-away that completely shuts out the ‘real’ world. A philosophy that made me feel… ah… well, ‘Important’. As if I was a VIP.

As I've always said, maybe you need to be from my particular socio-economic group to really appreciate what Disney did for you. And that philosophy, services, level of accommodations, amenities and COST all figured prominently into the “satisfaction” equation. Someone literally ‘made-of-money’ wouldn’t feel the same (they would have ‘expected’ it) and someone in a lower economic group wouldn’t have been able to taste the waters in the first place.

For a couple bucks more they delivered the World!!

“Don’t want to carry that bag through the parks all day. Heck, we don’t blame you!! Let us deliver it for you! NO!! Not to the hotel lobby or shop, but straight to your room!! Cost!?!? PLEASE!! Remember, you’re in Disney!! It’s complimentary, of course!!”

“Welcome to the {fill in the Resort Name}! May I park your car for you? How much?!?! PLEASE!! Remember, you’re in Disney!! It’s complimentary, of course!!”

“Yes!! We stay open until midnight every night during the summer! Yes! Two parades and a fireworks EVERY NIGHT. Yes! ALL the rides!! Food options until one hour before closing. Main Street opened an additional hour. Yes! ALL of Main Street!! Vacuum cleaners?!?! Of course not!!! We don’t want the guest to see the mundane maintenance issues!! PLEASE!! Remember, you’re in Disney!! Not some summer neighborhood carnival!!!”

I could go on and on. All those little things (after dinner chocolates, the store front that had a sign that read “tap dancing” and sure enough, tap sounds were subtly heard, good old Mickey head butter, characters roaming the streets, impromptu ski shows on Seven Seas Lagoon, personal escort and set up assistance for each camper arriving at Fort Wilderness, unique transportation (i.e. steam train in the campground), etc. etc. etc.). Notice I didn’t mention one E-Ticket. Not one “amusement park” offering. Just Disney being “Disney”!! Those are the things that endeared Disney to my heart. And those are the things that cut right to the core of that ‘Philosophy’ I’m always talking about.

Now I said earlier that it ‘WAS’ more than an amusement park. Sadly I don’t think that anymore. They have allowed themselves to become merely that. An amusement park. A good one, no doubt. Probably still the best one out there at the moment. But certainly only a shell of what it once was. And by allowing this to happen, they have created an environment that made car number 3 a no-brainer and car #4 more and more appealing!

Is this Walt's philosophy? To build something which affects an individual so strongly they are eternally bound?

No!! Of course not! It is the natural consequence of that philosophy, but not the goal itself. And therein lies the first major difference between Ei$ner and Walt!

The philosophy is really simple. It can be found at the bottom of everyone of my posts. It is:

“Give the people everything you can give them.”

Pretty simple isn’t it?

Now that doesn’t mean you give and give and give to the point of ‘giving’ away the store!! No! Of course not!! You still need to stay in business and even make a profit! But if you give the people ‘everything’ you CAN give them, they feel very, very, very, satisfied and more than likely will become a repeater! And there’s even a good chance that this person might even become a “loyal” and emotionally attached, ah… well… FANATIC!!! Make sense? It did to Walt. And it does to me. However, this concept hasn’t occurred to the current administration, or if considered, they discounted it as the ravings of “the dead guy”!!

Your particular situation is more complicated. Walt had to be an idealist to dream up such a concept. That said, what does it mean to buy into his philosophy?

To me it meant that since 1955 until fairly recently they maintained this philosophy. Was it foolish of me to think that it could go on a few more years? Maybe I shouldn’t have ‘bought’ into it. But I have nearly a half a century to back me up. It didn’t seem so stupid at the time.

These expectations wreak havoc and cause turmoil.

Well, again my frozen friend answered this one pretty well. And the Waffle House is a perfect analogy!! Thanks!! I just love getting good (frozen) Head – analogies!!!

One final thought and I realize it is a bit repetitive, but I think 48 years (and really more if you look at Disney the film company, which employed the same philosophy) is enough of a precedent that I really could come to reasonable ‘expect’ certain levels of – DISNEY! And so it would reasonable follow that the havoc and turmoil is Disney’s fault. Not mine.

The only way to accomplish this is increase sales and/or operate more efficiently. There shouldn't be a need for any subsidy here if the revenue was generated properly..

My friend. The parks are operating more efficiently than ever. Much to the determent of the guest. It is the rest of the company that is RAPING the parks. The subsidizing is going the other way. Toward ABC. Toward failed internet projects. Toward losing cable stations. Toward EVERYTHING except where the money should be going. Back into the parks!!! And adhering to the ‘philosophy’ – to the guests!!

True and you have a right to feel annoyed with not being able to get what you are used to. But when did WDW become the only entity on the face of the earth where change is absolutely not tolerated or accepted. Are they so perfect and held at such a high standard they have become immune to the economic environment?

No! But when that happens, don’t expect me to ride happily in the same car, year after year, throwing pixie dust to fellow posters!! I reserve the right to drive #3 and may even hitch a ride when #4 comes roaring up the road! Why would I passively sit by and see something that was once great… Something that once held a very special place in heart… simply drift away without a word of indignant protest!!?? If for no other reason, just for some modicum of self satisfaction!!

OK. I’m done. Only a couple questions for others.

Picasso Boy, I’m afraid I don’t get it. And Scoop, that would mean you too. Care to explain what it meant and why it’s such a (very) great quote?

Mitros. I’m sorry I put you to sleep. From now on, when that restless irritability hits and you find yourself watching the clock slowly creeping toward dawn – take two LandBaron posts and call me in the morning!!

 

[airlarry!]

Wow. As usual, Herr Baron, another inciteful post about why Disney seems to be mortgaging its future for the cash cow of the present.

I guess what frustrates us so is that we know Disney can do better. We've seen it, we've experienced it.

Driving with my wife today, she mentions that she saw an Atlantis II notice in Wal-mart and asked what that was. I started to tell her the story that I knew, that the cartoon series was cancelled, blah blah blah. I gave up in the middle of my story. The ending just seemed too crass and commercial. Instead, I said, "I'm just not sure why Ei$ner does much of what he does right now," and left it at that.

Since AV likes baseball analogies, I like to think of our beloved company as that aging ballplayer, past his prime, still trying to hang on in the Independent Leagues, waiting for a call from his agent that he's got one last shot at the Show.

Except, The Disney Company should NEVER be an aging ballplayer, because unlike sports athletes, the muscles shouldn't weaken, and the batting eye should never lose its sharpness. With a little fresh blood, this Company could and should be back on the creative top of the heap.

Baron, don't give up hope. We've seen dark days around the Castle before.

 

[crusader]

Baron -

This one really struck me. The more insight I gain the more I tend to smile - not at what is happening today but at the allure which encapsulated you and transcended time. I smile because I see myself right there with you (playing the role of your younger sibling of course).

We differ though in that your roots are the accumulation of many things on many levels. My roots are primitive. It may have everything to do with where we stayed and what we were provided. For me it was a campsite and book of tickets to the magic kingdom. Each time you sat outside you felt it - especially at night. You were in a place like nothing you had ever experienced and it was absolutely unbelievable!

Who could imagine something as simple as a paper ID card would give you that VIP feeling.

These are the basics which call me back time and time again.

Hopefully this will provide some clarity into my "what's the big deal over all that stuff" repetitive disruptions.

But as Matt would say that is a subjective opinion which fails to look beyond one's own personal experience in order to see the problems plaguing the company today.

So............enough said and on with the show......................

As I've always said, maybe you need to be from my particular socio-economic group to really appreciate what Disney did for you. And that philosophy, services, level of accommodations, amenities and COST all figured prominently into the “satisfaction” equation.

You're right. The quality of service provided each guest was exceptional at Disney - particularly at the deluxe resorts and throughout the parks. But a persons needs in relation to these factors is so varied it is difficult to measure whether or not the diminishing returns are great enough to prompt a mass exodus.

One particular item strikes me the most: COST which became painstakingly obvious the minute it was our responsibility to start cutting the check. It is the measurement which defines the experience in terms of what you are getting for it - and rest assured if you paid for it once, you are bound to expect it a second time. Maybe those price tags were invisible to the naked eye in the past because everything remained constant. It was only when something went missing that they all began to surface for that particular visitor.

But this is relatively subjective - How do you really know you weren't slighted in the past and the only reason those price tags are outed today is because that individual shared that information in an environment where nothing is held sacred?

Forget your knowledge of the internal dynamics of the company and step into the shoes of the average visitor today - would that person be willing to pay more in order to have these amenities restored?

No way. So where's the money going to come from?

As you have stated.........

The parks are operating more efficiently than ever. Much to the determent of the guest. It is the rest of the company that is RAPING the parks. The subsidizing is going the other way. Toward ABC. Toward failed internet projects. Toward losing cable stations. Toward EVERYTHING except where the money should be going. Back into the parks!!! And adhering to the ‘philosophy’ – to the guests!!

I agree - corporate execs are pillaging companies at every turn. No doubt funds are being transferred all over the place but before we accept this statement re: efficiency, hopefully this can be answered -
Is the DVC money part of the theme park operations?

They have allowed themselves to become merely that. An amusement park.

You may have fallen but I believe you've gone too far the other way. We are not there yet. You may be fearing the formidable future and jumping the gun to ease the pain but if you spend less and take a simplistic approach the next time you visit you may feel some positive.

and now for something completely different..........

Walt wanted to tell the best story imaginable; to put on the best show possible. All else was built atop that fundament.

OK - and why isn't this show still around? If the only reason is park hours and the schedules - no way. This leads us to attractions and exhibits, which absolutely are in dire need of capital (forget park maintenance and food) . Is the show gone because historically something substantial has been unveiled only every few years, yet the parks are continuing to wear? Why wouldn't another reason be more personal for the frequent guest - who just went one too many times and lost interest?

My point is if you go often you risk losing interest in the show but you gain other areas to counter that which enable you to feel justified in what you spent. Maybe the show is there, the other areas are missing and you no longer feel you're getting your moneys worth.

On the contrary, I believe it is you who expects a different ruler be applied to Disney

I know that's the popular version...............alot of people want to believe that...............but no! I've just seen this so many times I never thought any company was impervious to greed - not even disney. It would take 30 years of raw financial data to sufficiently enlighten ourselves as to whether this is unique to Ei$ner's realm or practiced before.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I see myself right there with you (playing the role of your younger sibling of course).

Just had to throw that ‘younger’ thing in there, eh?

But as Matt would say that is a subjective opinion which fails to look beyond one's own personal experience in order to see the problems plaguing the company today.

No. I try my best not to post that way. I really take great pains to evaluate EVERY move WDW from the philosophical standpoint. THAT is why I tend to get carried away with the ‘standards’. The traditional values and ideals that Walt set down way back in 1955. What he set out to accomplish and the methods that he ultimately achieved those goals. There’s quite a bit in the records (books and interviews) which clearly delineate the basic concepts of his philosophy. I use that as a criteria by which I judge all ‘new’ (current management) methods and/or concepts. It’s really pretty easy. Under my avatar you’ll see the words, “What would Walt do?” I take that very seriously.

As a case in point, the recent decision to bar guests, even Contemporary guests, from the observation deck for the fireworks, unless they were dining in the California Grille. Personally, it doesn’t effect my magic one iota! In the thirty years I’ve been going to WDW I used the deck maybe (and I stress the word maybe, because it’s probably less) four or five times. At the very most!!! Yet, when I heard about this new policy, I instantly felt that it ran contrary to that philosophy that I’m always on about. And so I analized it a bit. I posted about it. I argued it and the more I thought about it, the more convinced I became that this move (and moves like it) was very UN-Walt like. It did indeed run counter to the philosophy and was yet another example of non-caring, non-thinking, non-creative, easy way out type measures that this current administration is famous for. Yet personally, I couldn’t care less!!

You're right. The quality of service provided each guest was exceptional at Disney - particularly at the deluxe resorts and throughout the parks.

I know. You agree with me and I still pick it out as a worthwhile quote. But please bear with me a moment.

The reason this sentence struck me was because of the word DELUXE. There was no Deluxe. It was Disney or it was off the grounds. Period! Even the campground was Disney. There was nothing deluxe, moderate or economy about them. All of them. All FOUR resorts. Sure they were different. Sure they varied in style and even in purpose. But they didn’t vary at all in being Disney! The ‘quality of service’ was EXACTLY the same anywhere you stayed on Disney property. EXACT!! It was Disney!! Nothing more and certainly nothing less!!

But a persons needs in relation to these factors is so varied it is difficult to measure whether or not the diminishing returns are great enough to prompt a mass exodus.

Well I don’t know about prompting a mass exodus. All I do know is that many of the recently instituted concepts (and the many, many take-aways) is not in keeping with the philosophy that started the whole ball rolling in the first place.

No way. So where's the money going to come from?

I think I understand your point. You’re saying that because Disney is a business (WDW in particular) it has to be fiscally responsible and raise prices as well as cut as the economy demands. Right? In other words, in the cold light of the real world the parks have to pay their own way and if that means saving a few pennies on Mickey head butter or running a vacuum cleaner during business hours, well the guest is just going to have understand that it’s a tough market out there right now and they better learn to ‘suck it up’. Right?

BULL!! Absolute and utter nonsense!!! Even in these times the parks are still the cash cow of the company! They are being pillaged to prop up Ei$ner’s other playthings. If the company were only the parks, there’d be so much cash on hand that even Ei$ner wouldn’t know what to do with it!

Forget your knowledge of the internal dynamics of the company and step into the shoes of the average visitor today - would that person be willing to pay more in order to have these amenities restored?

Why in the world would they have to increase prices in order to restore the “Disney Philosophy”? Because that’s what you’re talking about. Those things you refer to so casually as “amenities” I call, reverently, the Disney standards!! And those “standards” should be included!! Heck they should never have been cut in the first place!! And they would not have been if it were not for the gross mismanagement of the rest of the company!!! The rest of the company needs cash!! Badly!! And the parks are providing it (every park except DCA of course, a park built on Ei$ner’s philosophy)!!!

Is the DVC money part of the theme park operations?

I don’t believe so, but we need someone who knows definitively. AV – Scoop!! You guys listening? Help us out here. (I don’t know where this is going, hopefully not down the proverbial garden path!!)

OK - and why isn't this show still around? If the only reason is park hours and the schedules - no way

NO!! That’s only part of it. It’s workmen during the day. It’s vacuum cleaners. It’s deferred maintenance. It’s those damned little carts selling trinkets. It’s emptying every single ride into a gift shop. It’s E-Ticket night. It’s no more chocolates in EPCOT restaurants. It’s ‘Preferred Seating” as opposed to ‘reservations’. It’s no Mickey head butter. It’s eliminating options and forcing everyone into a commando style park visitor. It’s closing Future World piecemeal style. It’s Downtown Disney!!!!! It’s lousy transportation. It’s diesel belching buses! It’s closing CoP for most of the year and closing it early when it is opened. It’s shutting down eateries hours early leaving a ghost town feel to some sections of the parks. It’s the Pop Century!! It’s closing the observation deck for the sake of an additional three lousy tables! It’s…. Oh my God!! I could literally fill up pages with this stuff! I think you get the point. And again, I haven’t mentioned one single E-Ticket (or more to the point, a lack of one).

Maybe the show is there, the other areas are missing and you no longer feel you're getting your moneys worth.

Nope!! You forget, you are talking to a guy that lived through the Miller/Walker era! Talk about stagnant!! Ei$ner can’t hold a candle to that time period.

It would take 30 years of raw financial data to sufficiently enlighten ourselves as to whether this is unique to Ei$ner's realm or practiced before.

You forgot to add the smile. You know the or even the . I assume you forget it, at least. It is a joke, isn’t it? You aren’t seriously suggesting that Walt or Roy bilked the company (or raped the parks) the way Ei$ner does? Are you?

 

[crusader]

“What would Walt do?” I take that very seriously.

Walt would take great pains to preserve the sacristy of the foundation of this empire. Ei$ner may be relying heavily on the fact that the foundation was built so structurally sound it is solid to the core.

The ‘quality of service’ was EXACTLY the same anywhere you stayed on Disney property. EXACT!! It was Disney!! Nothing more and certainly nothing less!!

Your right. I initially omitted that qualifier and only added it to avoid a cyclical debate on the relationship between accomodations; price and service.

Quality of service was exactly the same on disney property. Anyone who has been there can attest to that. Is it the same today? No. Is it because the policies have changed or because they are no longer being implemented or enforced. Take the hoover issue - was this a policy change or failure on procedure?

BULL!! Absolute and utter nonsense!!! Even in these times the parks are still the cash cow of the company!

Maybe - and maybe not. I am still trying to decipher if the parks are operating profitably right now or if the DVC has been giving them a shot in the arm.

They are being pillaged to prop up Ei$ner’s other playthings.

Absolutely and this has been going on for years. Why? It could have something to do with my opening remarks.

Why in the world would they have to increase prices in order to restore the “Disney Philosophy”? Because that’s what you’re talking about. Those things you refer to so casually as “amenities” I call, reverently, the Disney standards!! And those “standards” should be included!! Heck they should never have been cut in the first place!! And they would not have been if it were not for the gross mismanagement of the rest of the company!!! The rest of the company needs cash!! Badly!! And the parks are providing it

They've been increasing prices in order to maintain the status quo for years. They got caught this time around that's all. They can no longer pass this through to the consumer so they had to go the other way. You're absolutely right - Ei$ner and others have mismanaged this company and it is hurting. What I believe is that a key group of players in the organization have reaped millions from this - not just the king. The company was sold out at probably every level with the exception of those who really believed they were working for a cause. You have a right to feel the way you do. Are you prepared to abandon something you have a substantial vested interest in at this time? I hope not.

I do share Mr. Kidds optimism at times. I do believe that someone will finally pull in the reigns and prevent the foundation from cracking. If Ei$ner is worried about his image right now and wants to exit on top he will have to do more than continue to invest in the television and motion picture industry hoping to succeed.

 

[raidermatt]

DVC is part of the Parks and Resorts Division.

2002 Parks and Resort revenue was $6.465 billion, operating income was $1.169 billion.

In the annual report, there's a few tidbits about specific areas within the division, but I haven't seen anything that would tell us how much of the revenue and income DVC provides. However, I think its safe to say it contributes far less than $1.169 billion in operating income. Meaning the remainder of the division is profitable.