I'm just amazed that parents don't care what their kids listen to...

[Pigeon]

I'm somebody who does monitor the music my kids own. But I'm more hung up about the misogynist messages and the violence than about sex, and my oldest is 12.

But controlling who your kids make friends with until they go to college? Good grief.

We have two families in our neighborhood where the unmarried daughters got pregnant the minute they went off to college and now live at home with the parents. They are both the most conservative, fundamentalist, controlling parents I know. Coincidence? I suspect not.

 

[DVCLiz]

I don't know - there's not a magical age - probably when she lives on her own (college) - As long as she is in our house we will know something about the people she hangs out with. She'll never be allowed to knowingly go to someone elses house that goes blatantly against our values.

I don't believe in throwing her out to the wolves - "here, these are our values - have fun hanging out with Tracy in that liberal home where parties with drinking & sex is rampant but PLEASE PLEASE remember the values you were taught - even when you are tempted & are watching everyone else having "fun" all around you. Uh NO! My job is to keep her from those situations.

I would love to see you come back to this thread in three or four years and report what actually happened.

My daughter has "good values" too, but she's been to plenty of parties. Some with drinking (we seem to have missed most of the rampant sex parties - drats!) and some not. She learned over the course of her teen years to handle those situations and make her own decisions. I think it would have done her a tremendous disservice to keep her out of the social loop of her peers for her entire high school experience.

Knowing what to do at a party when someone offers you a beer or a joint is a part of growing up, and I think it's better learned when the whole peer group is doing it. Nothing wrong with saying, "No thanks" and not making a big deal of it.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I don't know - there's not a magical age - probably when she lives on her own (college) - As long as she is in our house we will know something about the people she hangs out with. She'll never be allowed to knowingly go to someone elses house that goes blatantly against our values.

I don't believe in throwing her out to the wolves - "here, these are our values - have fun hanging out with Tracy in that liberal home where parties with drinking & sex is rampant but PLEASE PLEASE remember the values you were taught - even when you are tempted & are watching everyone else having "fun" all around you. Uh NO! My job is to keep her from those situations.

We are a liberal, non-church going family and I can guarantee you that we do not allow kids to drink or have sex. My kids are extremely straight-laced, nothing like their liberal parents

However, my ds's most church-going, most strictly parented (pretty much the same rules as you have) 19 year old friend, has a baby on the way, has been arrested numerous times for drugs and alcohol, has been kicked out of college on academic criteria (despite the fact that the kid is absolutely brilliant -was taking calc 3 as an 8th grader).

Don't paint that brush so broadly.

Church going does not equal good parenting.
Liberal does not equal bad parenting.

Not even close. Nor is it even an indicator of any sort of what kind of parenting one does.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

The daughter opened the present a few minutes prior to me getting there & the mom probably never saw the CD - he dd openend it & immediately put it in - so when I asked if she knew who L.G. was she had never heard of her - that's what I meant by clueless. She didn't knowingly allow the music.

And yep - dd was with her today & of course will be allowed to go to her house & all I can do is hope now she'll pay a bit more attention to things - and dd now knows I don't allow L.G> music. She had heard the song from the girls singing it at school (Paparazzi) but had never hear the music until the party.

At least that is what she is telling you. Perhaps she is just savy on knowing what you want to hear.

I cannot believe for one minute that all those middle school girls learned the Lady Gaga lyrics from a girl scout camp without ever hearing the music. Oh my goodness, that is not how middle school works. Clueless, right

 

[jamimb]

Oh dear. It seems this thread has turned into another church-going conservative kids always always end up pregnant at 16 and selling drugs while their liberal, tree hugging counterparts win the nobel-peace prize thread.

Sheesh people you have good and bad on both sides of that coin!!!!

 

[EeyoreEma]

I'm a keep the kids young fan. I'll admit that I'm always shocked that 4 year olds know about High School Musical and Hannah Montana. My dd will be 4 in less than 2 weeks, and has NO clue. She's into Mickey and Pooh and Scooby. Of course, I'm less than "cool" myself, so maybe that's why?! I've never even heard Lady Gaga, so I have no idea what she's all about, but I've heard enough about her to think she's not my type!

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Oh dear. It seems this thread has turned into another church-going conservative kids always always end up pregnant at 16 and selling drugs while their liberal, tree hugging counterparts win the nobel-peace prize thread.

Sheesh people you have good and bad on both sides of that coin!!!!

That was what I was saying when telling the OP not to paint all families with such a broad brush.

However, the OP is the one who threw that out there first, thus prompting discussion with examples that it is not always that black and white. The OP threw down the gauntlet when she claimed that church going families can be trusted and liberal valued families have sex and alcohol parties.

I don't know - there's not a magical age - probably when she lives on her own (college) - As long as she is in our house we will know something about the people she hangs out with. She'll never be allowed to knowingly go to someone elses house that goes blatantly against our values.

I don't believe in throwing her out to the wolves - "here, these are our values - have fun hanging out with Tracy in that liberal home where parties with drinking & sex is rampant but PLEASE PLEASE remember the values you were taught - even when you are tempted & are watching everyone else having "fun" all around you. Uh NO! My job is to keep her from those situations.

As far as I know the parents didn't throw away the music during the party - so they other kids wouldn't know about it -

There are only a couple of kids my dd is allowed to visit - so its not real hard to know the parents & we've talked about such things. Heck I know if these girls have started their periods or not - but I'm not buddy buddy with the moms & we don't hang out together or anything - but we talk about things important to our kids when we do see each other.

The other MAJOR clue that they are attempting to raise their dd's with the same values as us is they are churchgoing families - that shows me that I can probably trust the families - its at least a good place to start. And no, just because they say the go to church somewhere doesn't mean there won't be issues down the road - or that bad things don't/won't happen in their house or that they are better than the other kids but that is something we use when deciding who dd spends her time with.

Personally, I think it extremely creepy that the OP is so controlling of her middle school aged daughter that she knows when her friends are menstruating. IMHO, that is bordering on sick.

 

[iheartjacksparrow]

Hey there, I'm not flaming you either!

But I have to say that if your daughter happens to get the cd as a present I don't think you should throw away. She's young enough to not know what the lyrics mean, but she's not naive enough to know that you're hiding something from her if you toss the cd. If you throw it away/hide it and she knows it, that's only going to make it MORE appealing to her; and it'll make her curious about it.
When I was little my mom never hid stuff like that from me. No she didn't encourage my to like "bad" things, but she never hid it from me.
And I think she did a good job, because I grew up a good kid who is obsessed with Disney and has respect for people...even though I watched Halloween as a little kid and listened to "provacative" songs/videos.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm a keep the kids young fan. I'll admit that I'm always shocked that 4 year olds know about High School Musical and Hannah Montana. My dd will be 4 in less than 2 weeks, and has NO clue. She's into Mickey and Pooh and Scooby. Of course, I'm less than "cool" myself, so maybe that's why?! I've never even heard Lady Gaga, so I have no idea what she's all about, but I've heard enough about her to think she's not my type!

Is she your oldest? I know my dd13 wouldn't have been watching those shows (if they had existed) at 4, but her 3 youngest siblings were, since I'm not going to make my older kids watch Barney. It's true that those with older siblings do grow up faster - I used to see it with my dd's friends who had them.

 

[jamimb]

That was what I was saying when telling the OP not to paint all families with such a broad brush.

However, the OP is the one who threw that out there first, thus prompting discussion with examples that it is not always that black and white. The OP threw down the gauntlet when she claimed that church going families can be trusted and liberal valued families have sex and alcohol parties.





Personally, I think it extremely creepy that the OP is so controlling of her middle school aged daughter that she knows when her friends are menstruating. IMHO, that is bordering on sick.

You asked the OP not to paint all families with such a broad brush and then went and did exactly that. Just seems kinda childish to say it's okay to do it since she did it first.

When she used the word "liberal" I believe she was just using the word for what it actually means (according to dictionary.com favorable to maximum individual freedom) She was describing parents who let their kids do whatever (like sex or drugs) I do not believe she was referring to a certain political party or non-church goer .
I know for a fact that my DD was the last of her friends to get her period. I knew when each of them got them as well. Me and my dd are very close and apparently her and her friends share alot and she shares with me. I don't see it as creepy.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

You asked the OP not to paint all families with such a broad brush and then went and did exactly that. Just seems kinda childish to say it's okay to do it since she did it first.

When she used the word "liberal" I believe she was just using the word for what it actually means (according to dictionary.com favorable to maximum individual freedom) She was describing parents who let their kids do whatever (like sex or drugs) I do not believe she was referring to a certain political party or non-church goer .
I know for a fact that my DD was the last of her friends to get her period. I knew when each of them got them as well. Me and my dd are very close and apparently her and her friends share alot and she shares with me. I don't see it as creepy.

How did I paint with a large brush? I specifically said that, which agreed with you in that:
church going does not equal good parenting
liberal does not equal bad parenting
Neither "club" has anything to do with how they parent.

And yes, if somebody is going to be so sanctimonious and state that she can only trust church-going parents, then they should be prepared to get lots of examples where church-going parents don't fit her perfect little mold.

Living in a liberal (not politically, but more lenient) neighborhood, I still do not know of any parent, church going or not, that allows middle schoolers to have sex and alcohol parties.

And yes, when the OP maintains that she doesn't hang out with the parents, but still knows when her daughter's friends are menstruating, that is just plain creepy. I can see a bunch of moms discussing their daughters over coffee, but knowing that kind of private information when you do not "hang out" with the parents means the daughter gossiped about her friends with no mind to their privacy.

 

[Jensspark]

I'll sign up for the bad parent club too. I have never censored DD's music choices, probably because I absolutely love most kinds of music and my favorites are "objectionable".

DD has attended concerts with me for bands such as Nine Inch Nails, Korn, Metallica, etc. She listens to pop music on the radio, Lady Gaga included and has always been allowed to purchase whatever songs she wants through iTunes. How has it worked for me?

DD is almost 16, is heavily involved in extra curricular activities at her high school. She had a best friend that went down the wrong path (I was fully aware of the girls' progressively bad behavior) and my DD severed ties with the girl on her own, using HER judgement. I have seen private emails and texts sent to DD's friends in which she expresses her disappointment with the girls for having sex. Even better, DD came to me recently when her boyfriend (yes, she is allowed to date) mentioned sex to her. She came to me to let me know that she was mad at him for pressuring her and she was absolutely appalled that he was "mad" at her for suggesting that she wanted to talk to her mom before they EVER even considered sex. She is staunchly anti-drug, anti-drinking and is extremely straight laced. She is still involved with the same boy, but has told him point blank that she's nowhere near ready for sex and that he could either accept her as is or they could go their separate ways. I trust her and I know without a doubt that WHEN the time comes, she will talk to me...even though I fully believe this will be quite a ways away at this point.

I guess my point is that in my case, censorship wasn't needed. I have always trusted my daughter to make appropriate decisions, only stepping in when absolutely necessary. I have seen my daughter make adult choices already and I feel comfortable knowing that I can turn her loose in the real world without fear of her making stupid choices when Mom isn't around.

 

[jodifla]

I, like many previous posters, think it's a BAD idea to keep a child so sheltered.

In college, the ones coming unglued were the ones who had no freedom earlier, and no experience making their own decisions. So then they were cut completely lose and on their own trying to do well in challenging academics at the SAME time they were negotiating a whole vast sea of freedoms, and it was all too much. Everything suffered.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

You asked the OP not to paint all families with such a broad brush and then went and did exactly that. Just seems kinda childish to say it's okay to do it since she did it first.

When she used the word "liberal" I believe she was just using the word for what it actually means (according to dictionary.com favorable to maximum individual freedom) She was describing parents who let their kids do whatever (like sex or drugs) I do not believe she was referring to a certain political party or non-church goer .
I know for a fact that my DD was the last of her friends to get her period. I knew when each of them got them as well. Me and my dd are very close and apparently her and her friends share alot and she shares with me. I don't see it as creepy.

........i didn't go around telling all of my friends when i first got my period and we didn't all go around telling our mom's "oh Suzie got her period, mom!!" .....i have to agree with the other poster, that's just a bit weird.

tbh, my friends and i didn't even really talk about it. it's not something we all gathered around and celebrated. it was just "oh....yep it's about that time. life happens."

 

[Mouse House Mama]

........i didn't go around telling all of my friends when i first got my period and we didn't all go around telling our mom's "oh Suzie got her period, mom!!" .....i have to agree with the other poster, that's just a bit weird.

tbh, my friends and i didn't even really talk about it. it's not something we all gathered around and celebrated. it was just "oh....yep it's about that time. life happens."

I have to agree. I never discussed it with my friends at all. I would also be mortified if my friend's parents knew. I would probably not have talked to my friend again. That would be something that I would have wanted to be private if I did confide in a friend. Especially that you don't hang out with the Moms and they are more of a casual aquaintance. I think it is creepy that you know that and even more so that you felt the need to mention it.

Oh- and plenty of church going families have different morals. We go to church and my kids love Lady GaGa! They also love the movie Rent.
Where do I repent?

 

[locolala]

I, like many previous posters, think it's a BAD idea to keep a child so sheltered.

In college, the ones coming unglued were the ones who had no freedom earlier, and no experience making their own decisions. So then they were cut completely lose and on their own trying to do well in challenging academics at the SAME time they were negotiating a whole vast sea of freedoms, and it was all too much. Everything suffered.

Yup, I had the same experience with my friends who had been sheltered. One is now dead from an OD, one lives in a hippie commune and does drugs constantly, and one is in jail. They all have kids.

The friends who weren't controlled and didn't have extreme censorship? All healthy, well adjusted adults.

 

[luvmyfam444]

That was what I was saying when telling the OP not to paint all families with such a broad brush.

However, the OP is the one who threw that out there first, thus prompting discussion with examples that it is not always that black and white. The OP threw down the gauntlet when she claimed that church going families can be trusted and liberal valued families have sex and alcohol parties.





Personally, I think it extremely creepy that the OP is so controlling of her middle school aged daughter that she knows when her friends are menstruating. IMHO, that is bordering on sick.

NO - It's not sick - of course we moms have talked about it - just like all of us have googled the signs that a period is near & talked to the school nurse about it - I suppose that's sick too. WHATEVER!

 

[luvmyfam444]

How did I paint with a large brush? I specifically said that, which agreed with you in that:
church going does not equal good parenting
liberal does not equal bad parenting
Neither "club" has anything to do with how they parent.

And yes, if somebody is going to be so sanctimonious and state that she can only trust church-going parents, then they should be prepared to get lots of examples where church-going parents don't fit her perfect little mold.

Living in a liberal (not politically, but more lenient) neighborhood, I still do not know of any parent, church going or not, that allows middle schoolers to have sex and alcohol parties.

And yes, when the OP maintains that she doesn't hang out with the parents, but still knows when her daughter's friends are menstruating, that is just plain creepy. I can see a bunch of moms discussing their daughters over coffee, but knowing that kind of private information when you do not "hang out" with the parents means the daughter gossiped about her friends with no mind to their privacy.

I never said a thing about middle school parties - I was talking about keeping my child out of tempting situations at any age.

And nope, I still don't hang out with all the moms - 2 of them we talked about it last year 1 mom is the school nurse & we talked about it from that standpoint @ firsst and she shared about her daughetr & even her older dd who I don't know. The other mom we were just talking after pickinb up the girls from s slumber party. - it was when they were having that class in school -
And lets see - one other mom I do talk to regulary so I knew when her dd started - she called me that day in fact & then she told me that another friend of both of our dd's had not started yet either. So lets see, that accounts for 5 of her closest friends.

Does this meet approval of how I now or am I still considered to be creepy? (Like it matters what you think of me!)

The girls don't know we've talked about it!

 

[IDoDis]

We go to church and DD (almost 14) and I love Lady GaGa. We listen to it on DD's iPod in the car all the time. DD is mature enough to be able to listen to it, and smart enough to make her own smart choices. She is one of a dying breed in mid school who does not cuss, has nice friends, is an athlete and a straight A honors student. I don't think listening to Lady Gaga is going to change that.

Just because someone goes to church doesn't mean they live a Beaver Cleaver life. In fact, my DD's good friend is a PK (pastor's kid). She's a great kid, but she cusses when she's away from home and says things inappropriate that my DD would not say. I told DD she's been sheltered so long that she's now "letting her hair down" so to speak.

 

[luvmyfam444]

I guess I just see things WAAAY differently -and at least y'all will be able to stick around and say "I told you so" in due time - i know you're excited!

I think having my kids just go wherever - with whomever is setting them up for failure. Maybe not ALL kids are gonna fall for the temptation - but why on earth allow them to be put in the situation at all?

I think of it as the same as if my dh decided to invite several lady friends back to the hotel room after his meeting or out to supper one on one with a lady he finds attractive- he's been on the road for a few weeks now & things aren't always the best at home -that's just setting himself up for failure - for going against his beliefs.- sure he "knows" the values, sure he knows I'd likely never find out....but if he could keep himself out of the tempting situation in the first place...

that's all I'm saying - we feel we should protect our children as long as they are under our care, as much as we can.

and yes, of course I know church going kids that aren't perfect angels