I'm going to get flamed....

[islandmum]

Too bad that WDW is no longer getting as much of my dining revenue - they are opting for the lower revenue DDP customer rather than the higher revenue business traveller in hopes of filling in the off season. I understand that decision, but like the OP, it means that I eat at Disney restuarants less often than in past.

BUT the lower revenue DDP people GO to the parks and therefore are the HIGHER revenue customers.

How many coventioners do you see going home with suitcases full of gifts and things they've bought? I'm guessing less than 50% at least. Plus - when you're in your conferences .... you're not spending any money ANYWHERE. no drinks, snacks photos, trips, excrsions, grand gatherings etc..

the business traveller is most certainly NOT the higher revenue customer when looking at WDW as a whole .... I beleiev the avaerage first time family visitors spend in excess of $4500 ..... and I'm guessing business travellers dont!

 

[bavaria]

why do you think that WDW has a number of convention centres, including what was once the largest in the Southeast of the United States?

Convention business fills in the lower times. Many conventions do stay in the parks. Attendees bring spouses or children.

If WDW did not care about the revenue of convention business, they would not be expanding the already huge centre at the Coronado. They wouldn't have expanded the Contemporary convention centre, nor would they have built Wide World of Sports.

The Swan and Dolphin also rely on the lucrative convention market. They offer discounts to leisure travellers during need times between meetings.

Disney realizes that it cannot focus on just one market in order to maximize revenues. But they ARE shutting out some of their more lucrative travellers with the DDP choices made recently.

 

[wendy46001]

No flames from me...I have no idea where i want to eat 180 days from now...honestly i don’t even know what month that is...so is life now in SW orange county....

As a local i just have to say appeal to the WDW Dine folks (it worked on easter)...what do we do...call...tell them your local and want someplace to eat in the next few hours....while the choices aren’t the best restaurants they will give you something…or call the restaurant directly…they can tell you if someone has cancelled and if you can be squeezed in, obviously we are normally a party of two…so we are more squeezable…

Is Disney alienating the locals…yes….
The only solution is to leave a few tables open to walk in….but I don’t see them doing this if they could book things solid…

best of luck dining

 

[bavaria]

the business traveller is most certainly NOT the higher revenue customer when looking at WDW as a whole .... I beleiev the avaerage first time family visitors spend in excess of $4500 ..... and I'm guessing business travellers dont!

you posted that you take a trip every five years, I believe. That's $900/year, divided by a family of four that's less than $200/year spent at WDW.

In contrast, I have been to a Disney park somewhere in the world at least once per month every month since last August. I would estimate that I have spent at least 30 days at a Disney park in 6 months. Most of the time it was an addition to a business trip; once was vacation. My total spending in a year is far more than the $200/year I quoted above.

There have been many discussions here over the years about local spend vs tourist spend. I can assure you that many locals spend as much in a year or more than tourists, and they are an almost guaranteed source of revenue.

Ask Ducklite sometime for her yearly spend at WDW - it may open your eyes to the value of local and business travellers.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

you posted that you take a trip every five years, I believe. That's $900/year, divided by a family of four that's less than $200/year spent at WDW.

In contrast, I have been to a Disney park somewhere in the world at least once per month every month since last August. I would estimate that I have spent at least 30 days at a Disney park in 6 months. Most of the time it was an addition to a business trip; once was vacation. My total spending in a year is far more than the $200/year I quoted above.

There have been many discussions here over the years about local spend vs tourist spend. I can assure you that many locals spend as much in a year or more than tourists, and they are an almost guaranteed source of revenue.

Ask Ducklite sometime for her yearly spend at WDW - it may open your eyes to the value of local and business travellers.

While the debate about who spends more money between the locals and the tourists will always happen, one thing I can say with confidence is WDW would not be where it is today without the tourists.

 

[U2_rocks!]

its our first trip to WDW, we live overseas so probably will only be able to visit once every 5 years or so.

For people like us from overseas and with growing families Disney is not an every year vacation, so booking up our ADR's at 180 days guarantees that for our 1 STAY in 5 years we'll get the times we want.

Hi neighbour! I live about 100 miles north-east of you! Your flag emblem reminds me of Mickey ears!

We're in the same boat in that this is our first time to WDW as a family, and might well be our last (at least while the kids are young). We also made our ADRs at 180 days - I have everything planned to a T to make sure we get the most out of our trip. We're offsite though, so no DDP.

I can relate to the frustration of the OP, and understand why she now eats mostly offsite. You can always find a good restaurant here, even in the height of tourist season, if you call around a week ahead of time. All choices may not be available, but there are enough. I'd hate it if we couldn't!

If WDW wasn't your thing then you'd be happy to eat at one of the many, many other fine Orlando restaurants. But, the OP loves WDW and has become accustomed to eating there as a local, so her concern is understandable. I also wish that I hadn't had to decide exactly where we were going to eat 180 days ahead of time to guarantee that we would get in, but with 7 of us most days (my parents are coming too) we have no choice.

I'm not sure what Disney can do though. They could hold back some seats for walk-ups, but I get the feeling that in peak times and during free dining even that might not be enough. It may actually be time for a new restaurant in each park, at least seasonally. WDW is hardly ever "quiet" these days, so I think they could easily fill another rest. at MK, maybe Epcot as well. I know AK is getting one soon, which is great!

 

[50 years Too!]

I think those of us who don't live in the area need to be a little more emphathetic. I totally get what she is saying.
Disney offers a DDE card to locals. They should also leave a small percentage of tables available for locals.
How many of you make 180 day advance reservations at your local restaurants!
I would be very frustrated too.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

I think those of us who don't live in the area need to be a little more emphathetic. I totally get what she is saying.
Disney offers a DDE card to locals. They should also leave a small percentage of tables available for locals.
How many of you make 180 day advance reservations at your local restaurants!
I would be very frustrated too.

If WDW were to leave a small perecntage of tables for locals, then they should also do it for Resort guests to make it fair. Like I said earlier my family and I along with other familes do not like to plan where we will be dinning 180 days before we arrive in WDW.

 

[bavaria]

While the debate about who spends more money between the locals and the tourists will always happen, one thing I can say with confidence is WDW would not be where it is today without the tourists.

nor would it be where it is today without locals and business travellers. There would be at least 1/3 fewer resort rooms (ie fewer WDW resorts) and fewer restaurants. There would be at least one less park - without local and convention revenues AK would probably not have been built.

 

[wendy46001]

If WDW were to leave a small perecntage of tables for locals, then they should also do it for Resort guests to make it fair. Like I said earlier my family and I along with other familes do not like to plan where we will be dinning 180 days before we arrive in WDW.

I agree....before they would make a set number of ADRs but still would take walk ups (number limited)...the system worked...while you might have had to wait an hour or so there was a place for non planers and locals...Now its no ADR no meal...

 

[Lady SnowElla]

I completely understand what the OP is saying. I make ADRs for those things that are very important but prefer to be able to select some ADRs upon arrival. That doesn't happen consistently anymore especially in the busy times that we have to travel. Luckily we are happy with counter service.

However, we really miss the OP's dining reviews. They were awesome with great pictures. It was also nice to have a review of the kid's menu included with great pictures of her lovely daughter. My youngest DD still loves to dress up special for dining at Disney. I look forward to seeing another great dining review for the OP in the future.

 

[netMick]

I don't understand what the issue is here.

More people want to eat in restaurants + limited number of seats per restaurant = fuller restaurants

What is the magic solution you're looking for?
No ADRs? Mass chaos and people unable to plan their time
Expand every restaurant? Unlikely
Build more restaurants? At least one in progess at AK
Time limits for dinners? Weird
Save some for walkups? Great, 8 people without an ADR get in an hour - everyone still pissed

There's a limited commodity and an overflow of people who want that commodity. Saying you're local or anything else doesn't matter. You don't have a right to eat on property without preparing like anyone else. You say it isn't Paris or New York and you shouldn't have to plan, but guess what? You do! Or just eat off property. There are plenty of good places to eat. I lived there for 12 years and made sure I planned ahead for special occasions, or settled for whatever I could get.

Again, what's the magic solution anyone is looking for?

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

I agree....before they would make a set number of ADRs but still would take walk ups (number limited)...the system worked...while you might have had to wait an hour or so there was a place for non planers and locals...Now its no ADR no meal...

Here are great example of my family and I going to some very popular restaurants as walk-ins. The last time my family and I went to Chef Mickey's for dinnner was in January 2002. We went last minute with no ADR's, however because we were staying at the Contemporary if we waited an hour no big deal because we were not in a rush to catch a Disney Transport Bus to another Resort from the Magic Kingdom. Anyway when we got to the podium I asked how long for 3 people and they told me 1 hour so we waited. However I think we only waited 40 minutes, which is not bad considering we came as a walk-in with no ADR's.

In December 2004 this time it my Dad and I decided to have a last minute dinner at the Concourse Steakhouse. Once again we were staying at the Contemporary so if we waited no big deal. Anyway the host tells us the wait for 2 people would be about 20 - 25 minutes. So after we get our pager from them we decided to go back up to our room, to let my Mom know that. However 30 seconds after we got up there our pager goes off, so my Dad and I are rushing right back down. So that time I say we waited a grand total of 3 - 5 minutes for our table, when we were told it was at least 20-25 minutes.

 

[Lisa Hale]

As a pp mentioned, they are getting cheaper dining dollars out of the DDP people. That's one reason we were already buying the DDP prior to getting it on the free dining plan- we were lucky, the dates worked out for us (another benefit of homeschooling). But, we're also paying RACK rate for the resort for 2 weeks. They may not be getting my dining dollars this year, but they are getting my resort dollars - this year at a moderate, for the last several (as in 8) years at deluxe resorts.

I do empathize with the OP to an extent. But, we live in Louisville, KY. It doesn't compare to Disney (either size or crowd wise), and I know that the little known KY Derby is only about a month's worth of festivities, but forget hotels, restaurants or driving in Louisville during most of it and especially for the weekend of the actual Derby. We know and love what it does for the city (I've never actually been to the Derby itself - many locals haven't), but we simply know that during the month when all the events are going on, to travel further afield if we want to go out during weekends and many evenings. It's part of the city and you either live with it or go crazy.

We have had family/friends come to town and want to go out and enjoy the festivities, but unless they've planned ahead (and yep, hotels book more than a year in advance for the Derby, along with many top-line restaurants), we drive 40-50 miles away to Lexington to dine there (unless of course, that there is racing at Keeneland that weekend, which means we go a different direction).

It's all relative. WDW wouldn't even have the scope of restaurants it does if it weren't for the tourists. Along with that, there will be headaches for the locals. I'm sorry for the inconvenience it causes, but would I stop planning my vacation to ensure that we can enjoy it to the fullest so that the locals won't be inconvenienced, nope. Sorry. It's once a year for us and we plan to enjoy every minute - or we wouldn't be coming. Would I have a problem with Disney holding out a few tables for last minutes or locals, not really. I just don't think a business will hold empty tables in the hopes that the right demographic (i.e. locals) will fill them up every night. They'll go with a sure thing and in this instance, it's tourists.

Not fair, and sympathy extended. Wish there were an easy solution, but I just don't see one. Maybe the WDW people will see this thread and consider some local specials to help alleviate the problem sometimes. Just like they set up the DDP for certain weeks, they could set aside certain weekends with an emphasis on locals. Might be a solution there somewhere. Good luck!

 

[Fishy&2guppies]

Jezebella - I really hope you do get an ADR soon, because I am really missing your dining report. Good Luck!!

 

[pilferk]

Please...this isn't NYC or Paris...so spare me your comments acting like I'm a "poor me..the don't know who I am"....I'm simply venting in that since the DDP the entire Disney restaurant biz is somewhat cut off to locals unless you book 4-5 months in advance. It has totally taken out the fun of OUR dining..not yours...MINE...so yes..I will have a good time dining on our local restaurants off site.

Not to be argumentative but...yes, it is NYC or Paris...in the sense there are LOTS of tourists/people all seeking to eat. It's a tourist destination, as you well know. I know, it's tough when you live smack dab in the middle of one, but......thems the brakes.

It's much harder for EVERYONE to get ADR's with the DDP now. So, you're on equal footing with everyone else. That's likely going to mean not being able to book the "hot spots" 6 weeks in advance, or anything 6 weeks in advance during the busy season.

One of DDP's effects, and I'm sure it was one Disney WANTED, is to fill up TS restaurants. It's sort of "working as intended" and Disney, really (not to be cold) couldn't care less if you're filling the seat or someone who booked 6 months ago is filling the seat, so they're not likely to "hold" ressies for anyone...first come, first serve.

I can understand the sense of frustration, to be sure.....but I just don't think there's any remedy for it. You live where you live, and, if you want to dine at WDW, you're going to be forced to play by the new rules, or get locked out.

 

[PlutoLuvr]

Count me in with the FL resident frustration factor, too. I've lived in FL since WDW has been in Orlando, and WDW has always made a place in their marketing strategies for FL residents -- whether it's discounted rooms, dining availability, whatever.

Not so anymore. I tried to book CSR the exact same week that I did in 2003, the first week in May. In 2003, I was offered FL resident discount room rates of $79 per night. The best the CM could do when I inquired about this year was $169. When I brought up what I paid only four years ago, she said FL residents were keeping WDW in business at that time due to the tourism industry being hit so hard from 9/11 and all the hurricanes that were streaming across FL. FL residents at that time were WDW's target market and that we're not anymore. Those were her exact words. And she wasn't rude about it at all. We actually had quite a lengthy discussion about employees of WDW and FL residents feeling shut out of so many promotions.

I realize this isn't the resorts board, but I think it shows that tourism's back up, we had a mild year with 'canes last year and there definitely is no longer an off season in Orlando.

I'm two hours away -- from my front door, I'm going through the turnstyles in any of the parks in two hours. I also travel frequently for business to Orlando, and, YES, my family comes with me for two- and three-day stays. We're theme park junkies.

I've been trying since February 27th to get either Chef Mickey's for breakfast or CRT for breakfast or lunch on Monday, 4/28. Every day, I've been calling. We're extremely flexible with our times. Four adults, two children. I was able to secure two dinners at resort restaurants (which is fine), but the popular places to eat in or close to the parks get sold out months in advance. Yes, I keep calling because I know folks cancel, but here we are a couple weeks away from our trip, and already I've got a bad taste in my mouth. I'm LOOKING to go off site. And I've looked before, tried some of the other theme parks of Orlando, as well as restaurants, and our family are no longer Disney purists. And I know I'm not alone.

But guess what? This trip we're going with newbies, "fresh meat" for WDW marketing. They're already saying things like, "Thank God we didn't stay on WDW property. What would we do for dining? My cousins are thinking of coming here next year; I'll need to let them know to stay offsite so they have dining options if they're not able to book their trip six months in advance."

For 30+ years, WDW has excluded no one. They've always had all sorts of enticements for everyone who chooses WDW for its travel destination, locals and FL residents included. What's left for FL residents now? An extremely high Three-Day Play pass, 5 percent discounts on rooms (yes, 5 percent) and restaurants whose quality has gone down, but the prices have increased for those paying OOP (again, namely FL residents and locals).

Five, ten years ago, we'd spend four weeks a year onsite at WDW, plus business trips. I'd never leave the World. Now we don't stay onsite, we don't eat nearly as much as we used to at the World -- because it's just easier to plan to eat offsite -- and Hard Rock gets my money for accommodations (which, BTW, offered me a $369 room for $144 for being a FL resident on our upcoming trip in a few weeks).

What will be interesting is what WDW will do to entice FL residents back when we have another awful hurricane season, when we have another terrorist attack, when something happens that's going to bring the tourism industry in FL to a screeching halt. For the first time in 30 years, my loyalties are no longer with the Mouse.

And I do not expect to walk into a popular restaurant anywhere on a Saturday night without a ressie and hope to get served. But WDW must realize that they are alienating an awful lot of folks -- folks that have gotten them through really tough times (9/11 and brutal hurricane seasons) by making it so difficult and stressful for the folks who live in their backyard to enjoy their parks, resorts and restaurants.

And this isn't about "FL residents vs. everyone else." A few here have mentioned things like, "What if this were the case in your hometown?" What's freaking a lot of us out is it didn't used to be like this. Yes, times have changed. Aren't we allowed to vent a little, too? Maybe get some feedback from others in our shoes?

 

[bavaria]

I've been to London, Paris, and even Louisville KY. The difference is that in those cities, there are more choices (well I will exempt Louisville, and focus on London and Paris or even Munich)

If a signature restaurant doesn't have a seating, there are other choices of the same caliber which will have seating. It's not the same at WDW. There are many many nights even in offseason when the only table service available is Marrakesh or one of the least popular places. The local or business traveller then has to choose to eat offsite (and thankfully, there are many good offsite choices now in Orlando)

I too live in a tourist area, and realize that it is the tourist revenue which drives much of the economy. That doesn't mean that I don't get irritated by the impact that living in a popular location has on me and my lifestyle.

 

[netMick]

Hard Rock gets my money for accommodations (which, BTW, offered me a $369 room for $144 for being a FL resident on our upcoming trip in a few weeks).

Probably because they aren't anywhere near full. If they were, I doubt you'd get such a discount.

 

[bradk]

Having a brain delay here....What is PYC?

in the event this gets lost, i assumed this was a typo for PTC, or 50s Prime Time Cafe