I'm Done!!! Too Many Changes We Don't Like

Yep, Disney World seems to be marketing mainly to the once-in-a-lifetime or once-every-10-years visitor, whom they think will buy the expensive package at the deluxe resorts, and plans this type of vacation way in advance. For these people fastpass+ and all the planning works out very nicely. For everyone else, though....and I'm not sure if Disney completely realizes the implications of that yet.

Clearly they are betting that this will pay off. But they could be wrong. Companies have been wrong before.

What will be interesting to see is what their next move is regarding offsite and APs, in other words, everyone other than resort customers. That will be very telling as to what their ultimate strategy is with all of this.
 
That lists also states that apparently 7.6 of the 17.5 million visitors to MK don't find HS worth attending.

As they say, there are lies, d*** lies, and then there are statistics. I can make multiple arguments for these numbers on every side of the argument.

IMO, the implementation of MDE is data mining. How many of us go to the grocery store and use their rewards card? I know our grocery store sends us targeted emails based on our spending. Disney is doing the same and setting up the infrastructure to be able to target us individually. FP+ is just the beginning. Better start looking for that black helicopter following you around!

I'm also guessing (a big leap here) that the parks at WDW are getting closer to capacity and they are looking for ways to squeeze the last $ out of our wallets. MDE may be the best investment since benefits could be gained at WDW and DLR. From the corporate standpoint, adding an additional park or expanding a park may not have a return that would beat the ESPN bidding for the tv rights to the upcoming college football playoff. There is so much we don't know from a macro view.
 
I don't recall saying I would never visit Disney again.

And even if you did... This is a big community. I hang out here even when I don't have a trip in the works, because I've gotten to know people and enjoy the conversations. Granted when I'm not thinking about a trip I'm on the community and budget boards far more than the theme parks, resorts, or dining forums, but I'm still here on the DIS either way.

I agree that loyalists do not seem to be the main focus.

At first, I thought this was strange. As a former business owner, I have read plenty of marketing books, and would say I know a little about the subject. One of the principles of marketing is that is costs much less to keep a loyal customer loyal than it does to attract a new customer.

I suppose this principle is more important to a small business with a very small marketing budget than it is to a large conglomerate like Disney, but it's one of the reasons you still see advertisements for market leaders like Coke and McDonald's—the front of mind awareness helps them stay number one.

My guess is that Disney has done the research, and either knows they won't lose enough of the loyalists or the loyalists are such a small percentage of visitors that they don't financially matter.

I think what you're missing is the spending variable. Coke and McDs make more off of loyal (frequent) customers because the pricing is uniform across the board. The first-time buyer and the millionth-time buyer are paying the same price. At Disney that isn't the case. I remember the "once in a lifetime" days of dropping $7-10K on a single trip. Now? I have an annual pass and all four trips this year aren't adding up to what we spent on our first. Passholders, DVC members, and other frequent guests represent far less profit per-capita than once in a lifetime and very occasional visitors, and Disney would rather be filling their hotels and parks with a more profitable group of customers.
 
Eh, I don't think so. As much as they try to convince you otherwise, Disney doesn't give 2 pieces of Mickey Mouse poop what any of us think. They believe they are untouchable. Now, Universal, if you complain to them about something, that's a different story. The levels I have seen them go to to right a wrong is outstanding. They are to customer service what Disney used to be.

Unfortunately, I think you're right on this one. They've gone the way of so many other big companies that built success on service but forgot it somewhere along the way. We have already had one issue with the CC guarantee that left a bad taste in my mouth, and Disney failed to so much as respond to my concerns. Now they're expanding that policy. That, to me, speaks volumes about how they regard guest feedback.
 

Just to throw out there that the sky isn't falling, and that Disney can be easily navigated without FPs.

Rumor has it, some rides even have these things called "queue lines".

But a bus driver told me that, so take it for what it's worth.

Not well when all of the Queues are 2 hours long.
Allowing for lunch and dinner that let's you go on 4 attractions in a day.

Admission tickets are to expensive for that!

I realize that there are less crowded times, but my last trip the parks were Packed, most Fast Passes were gone within a half an hour of the park opening and as I result, I managed to get on very few rides.
I can honestly say that I wanted my money back after my day in Hollywood Studios.
I still made the most of it. I still had a good time with my DBF, but I did not get nearly the value of my ticket out of my experiences in that Park.
 
Because Disney is so special to most of us who visit these boards, we take a sense in ownership in it. However, unless we own a sizable portion of Disney stock, our opinions probably don't mean much.

Those of us who do have that unjustified sense of ownership are the "Walts." Anyone who knows the real Walt Disney story knows that Walt didn't have a lot of business sense and his dreams often had the company headed down the path to bankruptcy (and it did declare bankruptcy once). It is only because of Roy's business leadership the company stayed as successful as it did.

There needs to be a healthy blend of Walts and Roys in the company. It seems that today, there are only Roys.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the only purpose of a business is to make a profit. This is just probably my nostalgia speaking, but it seems like the company was once willing to give up a little profit to give people a lot of magic. Now it seems they are willing to take a huge profit and give people a little magic.

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2::yes::
 
/
I don't think my experiences are universally true, but I will say I was surprised when planning how much advice we got to skip the WDW parks and see what else there is available.

I have a coworker who is thinking about taking his wife and two young sons (8y/o and 11y/o) to Orlando. Knowing I go down there 4-6 times a year, he asked me to help plan their trip. He then told me he had won a four night stay at a timeshare and was going to add a few nights to it. I explained all the onsite perks to him, transportation options, FP- and FP+, how to make ADRs, character meals, etc. We also talked about staying offsite, eating offsite prices vs onsite prices, other things to do in Orlando, etc. In fact we spent all night talking about his options. I didn't want to influence him one way or the other, just wanted to give him facts. He said it sounded like to him that DS and maybe even AK could be half day parks. When we got to talking about maybe it would be better for them to stay onsite, since it was their first trip and how important ADRs and FP+ would be to them, he finally put both hands in the air and said forget it, a WDW vacation was too complicated and time consuming to plan. He then asked me if a Universal/Sea World trip would be that complicated. What could I say: stay onsite at Universal and get unlimited front of the line passes and priority seating at their restaurants, no ADRs needed. Go to Sea World, pay $19.99 for their quick queue option and again get unlimited front of the line passes and pay $32.99 for their all day dining plan that allows basically all you can eat unlimited meals and snacks all day. He gave me a puzzled look and asked why I bothered to even go to WDW then and why couldn't WDW make it simple like Universal and Sea World.:rotfl:

:( One of those is me. I average about four trips to WDW a year and generally only visit DHS one time out of the four - in December for the lights. If the whole clan goes and we have to skip a park due to timing or funds/ticket restrictions, we skip DHS.

Same here! I go 4-6 times a year. Before they built TSM, I frequently skipped DS, except for the Osborne Lights in Dec. Even since they've built TSM (my favorite ride for some odd reason:rotfl:), I still spend just half a day there. I like to ride TSM two or three times (which with this new system I won't be able to do:furious:), then ride RnR a couple of times, then Star Tours, then if the timing is right I might see Little Mermaid, then I'm out of there. Some trips I still skip DS though. There is just not enough there to interest me.

What will be interesting to see is what their next move is regarding offsite and APs, in other words, everyone other than resort customers. That will be very telling as to what their ultimate strategy is with all of this.

This is what I'm concerned about. We are annual passholders that also happen to prefer staying at Wyndham Bonnet Creek, instead of onsite. If this new system keeps us from touring the way we like to, then we'll be speaking with our money and not renewing our annual passes. Instead we will be finding other things to do down there. We currently have annual passes for WDW, but also have annual passes for Universal and by next month will also have Fun Passes to Sea World that will be good until Dec 2014. We do have options and if we don't like the direction WDW is going will exercise those other options. There are too many things to do in Orlando to be standing in long lines at WDW.
 
If my sad attempt at humor is considered preaching, it explains why church attendance is down....

Effective humor is grounded in reality. Just so happens that your humor was my reality a couple of weeks ago (latin youth soccer league of >150 kids - including flag bearers passing out paper FPs)
 
As they say, there are lies, d*** lies, and then there are statistics. I can make multiple arguments for these numbers on every side of the argument.

Please break it down for us, Trey. I'm extremely interested in your wiki-stats.

How many individuals visited Disney?

Of that...how many Florida AP holders visited Disney?

How many International vs Domestic individuals visited Disney?

How many individuals used Park Hoppers?

My guess is around 11 million people actually visited Disney and due to PH you get the numbers they posted.

Please correct me.:wizard:

And what the hell is a d*** lies? Please explain that one too.
 
I have a feeling that if ANY of you were at WDW this week your tune would change. Been watching wait times and everything has been very reasonable. Take Space Mountain today, it has an 11 minute wait. Is there anybody that would complain about that? Heck, even TSMM has less than an hour wait.

All I'm really trying to say is your perception of WDW today is going to depend a lot upon how you see the parks based on when you go. For example, I've been there Christmas week and I've been there during a dead week. I at least have something to compare it to when I go this Thanksgiving. If I feel that things aren't running as well as last Christmas then I will have a negative perception of what's going on. It's totally possible I'll think things are better.

Much more disturbing for me are the reports from the Dis Podcast saying the CM's are feeling less than special at WDW. I think that would have a much more meaningful impact on my stay than whether or not I get a FP to Soarin'.
 
Effective humor is grounded in reality. Just so happens that your humor was my reality a couple of weeks ago (latin youth soccer league of >150 kids - including flag bearers passing out paper FPs)

On my bucket list is to just one time go to WDW with a bright orange tour flag and a whistle- with just one poor old individual in an ECV behind me.....
 
I have a feeling that if ANY of you were at WDW this week your tune would change. Been watching wait times and everything has been very reasonable. Take Space Mountain today, it has an 11 minute wait. Is there anybody that would complain about that? Heck, even TSMM has less than an hour wait.

As I said in another thread...MK is less of an issue with FP+ because there are enough other rides to disperse the crowds. The biggest issue will be in Epcot. Both times I've looked today (11:30am and now), TT has been about an hour while Soarin' has been 70-80 mins. TSMM was 90 mins at 11:30am and is an hour right now.

The fact that crowds are so low (as seen in MK), and yet these rides have such long lines *and* their FPs were gone so much earlier than they even were when I was there for spring break last March, is demonstrative of how much more of an impact FP+ is going to have on the parks where there aren't as many rides to spread out the crowd.
 
I have a feeling that if ANY of you were at WDW this week your tune would change. Been watching wait times and everything has been very reasonable. Take Space Mountain today, it has an 11 minute wait. Is there anybody that would complain about that? Heck, even TSMM has less than an hour wait.

All I'm really trying to say is your perception of WDW today is going to depend a lot upon how you see the parks based on when you go. For example, I've been there Christmas week and I've been there during a dead week. I at least have something to compare it to when I go this Thanksgiving. If I feel that things aren't running as well as last Christmas then I will have a negative perception of what's going on. It's totally possible I'll think things are better.

Much more disturbing for me are the reports from the Dis Podcast saying the CM's are feeling less than special at WDW. I think that would have a much more meaningful impact on my stay than whether or not I get a FP to Soarin'.
Good to hear! quick question- which was your plan- RD or did you plan Park arrivals around FP+ times?

Is the less than special they're feeling because of the MDE rollout or just a more general outlook?
 
As I said in another thread...MK is less of an issue with FP+ because there are enough other rides to disperse the crowds. The biggest issue will be in Epcot. Both times I've looked today (11:30am and now), TT has been about an hour while Soarin' has been 70-80 mins. TSMM was 90 mins at 11:30am and is an hour right now.

The fact that crowds are so low (as seen in MK), and yet these rides have such long lines *and* their FPs were gone so much earlier than they even were when I was there for spring break last March, is demonstrative of how much more of an impact FP+ is going to have on the parks where there aren't as many rides to spread out the crowd.
You may not want to, but you could do TT and Soarin without FP on a day like today and still have plenty of time left over for the rest of the park. You could even do HS today without the use of FastPass. Just saying. Not saying you should but you could.
 
Good to hear! quick question- which was your plan- RD or did you plan Park arrivals around FP+ times?

Is the less than special they're feeling because of the MDE rollout or just a more general outlook?

For our Thanksgiving trip I have planned out our rides all over the place. Our H.S. day I have them all later because the only way you could ride TSMM and RnR with reasonable waits was right in the morning. My wife is not a morning person and always meets us at the park around noon. With FP+ i was able to schedule them later in the afternoon when I know she's there. Now I can tell her she just needs to be there before lunch while me and the kids will be at HS half hour before rope drop. Not sure yet what we will do first since we don't have to worry about TSMM, RnR, and ToT. I'm thinking second tier attractions first thing could actually lead to more effective touring at H.S for us. Sounds weird I know.

We cannot ignore the rough times several people have had while testing the whole MDE program. I really feel sorry for them and I hope I'm not one of them this Thanksgiving. However, I do believe Disney is happy with how things are progressing. According to my CM family the whole MB program is working awesomely and has been a good thing. Most guests have had very positive things to say about it.

I think a lot of the dislike is simply people resistant to change. Anytime there is change people seem to get nervous about it.
 
And what the hell is a d*** lies? Please explain that one too.

The phrase, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics," is a popular Mark Twain quote attributed to 19th Century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, although Disraeli as the source can't be confirmed. It was one of my statistics professor's favorite sayings. :)
 
The phrase, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics," is a popular Mark Twain quote attributed to 19th Century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, although Disraeli as the source can't be confirmed. It was one of my statistics professor's favorite sayings. :)

That an 87% of social statistics are made up...;)
 














Save Up to 30% on Rooms at Walt Disney World!

Save up to 30% on rooms at select Disney Resorts Collection hotels when you stay 5 consecutive nights or longer in late summer and early fall. Plus, enjoy other savings for shorter stays.This offer is valid for stays most nights from August 1 to October 11, 2025.
CLICK HERE













DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top