I'm Done!!! Too Many Changes We Don't Like

[tjevans]

I'm not sure they want or care about the Disney loyalists as their main focus? They want every family in America (and other countries!) to come once or twice and see princesses! And blow a ton of cash on hotels and restaurants and stuffed animals. That's what I read out of this new system and also based on where they have been putting their $ into new projects (NFL)

I agree that loyalists do not seem to be the main focus.

At first, I thought this was strange. As a former business owner, I have read plenty of marketing books, and would say I know a little about the subject. One of the principles of marketing is that is costs much less to keep a loyal customer loyal than it does to attract a new customer.

I suppose this principle is more important to a small business with a very small marketing budget than it is to a large conglomerate like Disney, but it's one of the reasons you still see advertisements for market leaders like Coke and McDonald's—the front of mind awareness helps them stay number one.

My guess is that Disney has done the research, and either knows they won't lose enough of the loyalists or the loyalists are such a small percentage of visitors that they don't financially matter.

 

[nugov2]

I agree that loyalists do not seem to be the main focus.

At first, I thought this was strange. As a former business owner, I have read plenty of marketing books, and would say I know a little about the subject. One of the principles of marketing is that is costs much less to keep a loyal customer loyal than it does to attract a new customer.

I suppose this principle is more important to a small business with a very small marketing budget than it is to a large conglomerate like Disney, but it's one of the reasons you still see advertisements for market leaders like Coke and McDonald's—the front of mind awareness helps them stay number one.

My guess is that Disney has done the research, and either knows they won't lose enough of the loyalists or the loyalists are such a small percentage of visitors that they don't financially matter.

I agree, but my point is that the average WDW guest(once every 5-10 years) are the same people who talked us into Universal and IOA. The thing is people who travel to the area(will still call it a Disney vacation) aren't doing so every year and want to get as much bang for their buck and they don't feel like they are getting it at the lesser parks WDW offers. I think that a lot of people are taking notice of Universal/IOA and are enjoying them so much more than WDW once they are there that word of mouth is traveling fast. I know I have told 3 people since June to visit Uni and how great it was and the friends that went down and loved it!! Word of mouth is powerful. I will not boycott WDW of say I will never go back. I just won't do as much as I did there b/c if this works out the way I think it will WDW doesn't value their guests as much as I thought.

 

[TreyQ3]

If Universal can acquire more land and opens another park, things are going to get interesting. As it is, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios just barely beat out Islands of Adventure in attendance. It's not an all enhancing resort vacation like Disney is, but their parks are just as great, and their hotels and service at least rival Disney's.

Just to put things in perspective - according to wiki, the 2012 attendance #s

1. MK - 17.5M
6. EP - 11.1M
7. AK - 10.0M
8. HS - 9.9M
10. IoA - 8.0M
16. US - 6.2M

I don't think IoA is nipping at the heels of AK or HS. IoA would need to increase attendance by ~25% to get to HS.

Now, the general consensus is IoA/US is growing in leaps and bounds. That is true from 2009 to 2011 where you see the impact of opening HP. But looking at 2011 vs 2012, I don't see the continued growth. We will have to see what the Diagon Alley does at US.

1. MK - 394K
6. EP - 238K
7. AK - 215K
8. HS - 213K
10. IoA - 307K
16. US - 151K

Everyone likes to use their anecdotal experiences and assume that it is universally true. Reality generally doesn't back that up.

It will be years before anyone can tell the impact of FP+. And even then there will be so many other variables changing (think economic, social, etc.) that it will be difficult to pinpoint a single cause.

Back to the food fight - sorry for the interruption.

 

[daytondisney]

The problem is, there's simply not enough raindrops to cause a flood. Or rather, there IS a flood, and it's sweeping right through Disney's front gates and into their coffers. Too many people are reporting positive experiences. Too many people are either pro-change or neutral towards it. And everyone else just keeps stampeding into the parks, with no idea anything's changed at all.

The only way anyone could bring Disney to its knees and force change, would be to fire up a grassroots boycott and get hundreds of thousands of guests on board.

The religious right tried that, and it didn't work. They were too few.

Besides, even if someone could, would they really want to organize a campaign to damage the entire company over this issue? Because that is exactly what would be required. Damage. Disney would have to take a serious hit to their bottom line, in order to find themselves in a place where they would be forced to consider a complete change of course where FP+ and MDE are concerned.

And that kind of "success" might have consequences far worse than "I can't pull six Soarin' fastpasses in a day!". Consequences such as the company pulling back from investment in the parks. Cancellation of projects. Layoffs. Fewer refurbishments.

Mind you, that won't happen. Because all we have here is a light sprinkling of a few dissatisfied raindrops, and Disney's betting the weather will clear once everything's in place and everyone's had a chance to get used to it.

Based on postings from recent visitors, the longterm forecast already seems headed that way.

Perfect!

 

[ShayBells]

Just to put things in perspective - according to wiki, the 2012 attendance #s 1. MK - 17.5M 6. EP - 11.1M 7. AK - 10.0M 8. HS - 9.9M 10. IoA - 8.0M 16. US - 6.2M I don't think IoA is nipping at the heels of AK or HS. IoA would need to increase attendance by ~25% to get to HS. Now, the general consensus is IoA/US is growing in leaps and bounds. That is true from 2009 to 2011 where you see the impact of opening HP. But looking at 2011 vs 2012, I don't see the continued growth. We will have to see what the Diagon Alley does at US. 1. MK - 394K 6. EP - 238K 7. AK - 215K 8. HS - 213K 10. IoA - 307K 16. US - 151K Everyone likes to use their anecdotal experiences and assume that it is universally true. Reality generally doesn't back that up. It will be years before anyone can tell the impact of FP+. And even then there will be so many other variables changing (think economic, social, etc.) that it will be difficult to pinpoint a single cause. Back to the food fight - sorry for the interruption.

At least for me I've never went to universal in the past because my family like disney so much we always picked disney and couldn't afford both. Now I pick disney because I have a little one and the prices aren't worth it to try because he could only ride half the rides if that.

I think this is a big difference between WDW and Universal. WDW caters to everyone and universal you have to be a certain height before the price is worth it. You couldn't take a baby there but at disney you could and still ride a lot of rides.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[daytondisney]

I don't think anyone is saying that disney will fall apart without their money. We are all very aware that Disney has no problem getting guests to come in. My concern is long term...I do want Disney to be around forever so I can one day take my grand kids (and I'm only 27 now so that will be awhile away) but I think it's delusional to assume Disney can't fail, because many successful business meet with a downfall (Sears anyone?).

The fact is, if any system Disney pushes, whether it be Fastpass + or anything else they come up with, causes them to lose some of their most passionate followers, then that's a sign that they should step back and reevaluate things.

1. they have to evaluate before they can reevaulate
2. creating a larger number of passionate followers is preferable to maintaining the current level. (If they don't think this will occur, they wouldnt be trying it)

Look at Blockbuster for instance, once a huge giant that has fallen while Netflix has overtaken them.

Blockbuster was a brick and mortar video rental store. It didn't go out of business because it failed to transition from Beta/VHS to DVD to BluRay and lost market share to a competitor that did. It went out of business because technological advances made its servicet obsolete.

No matter how big, there is competition and for Disney that is Universal and it's not at all a stretch to believe there is a chance Disney too will fall one day, which is exactly what happens with these "too big to fail" businesses stop listening to their customers.

It's not impossible, but it is a stretch (imo). Disney World is unique in both its decades long legacy, park experience and ownership the surrounding area. You're in Disney before you're ever at Disney. Plus, both are complimented with a steady stream of new branding opportunites by way of their respective media entertainment platforms. Disney's is more transferrable to theme park attractions, IMO. The biggest draw at DHS is based on a movie about what toys do when we're not looking.

JMO

 

[clsteve]

Just to put things in perspective - according to wiki, the 2012 attendance #s

1. MK - 17.5M
6. EP - 11.1M
7. AK - 10.0M
8. HS - 9.9M
10. IoA - 8.0M
16. US - 6.2M

I don't think IoA is nipping at the heels of AK or HS. IoA would need to increase attendance by ~25% to get to HS.

Now, the general consensus is IoA/US is growing in leaps and bounds. That is true from 2009 to 2011 where you see the impact of opening HP. But looking at 2011 vs 2012, I don't see the continued growth. We will have to see what the Diagon Alley does at US.

1. MK - 394K
6. EP - 238K
7. AK - 215K
8. HS - 213K
10. IoA - 307K
16. US - 151K

Everyone likes to use their anecdotal experiences and assume that it is universally true. Reality generally doesn't back that up.

It will be years before anyone can tell the impact of FP+. And even then there will be so many other variables changing (think economic, social, etc.) that it will be difficult to pinpoint a single cause.

Back to the food fight - sorry for the interruption.

Good point, but these numbers only show part of the story. Add revenue growth and profitability and it's a much more interesting picture. Especially since the Suits are compensated by rev growth and profitability....

 

[ArwenMarie]

I agree that loyalists do not seem to be the main focus.

At first, I thought this was strange. As a former business owner, I have read plenty of marketing books, and would say I know a little about the subject. One of the principles of marketing is that is costs much less to keep a loyal customer loyal than it does to attract a new customer.

I suppose this principle is more important to a small business with a very small marketing budget than it is to a large conglomerate like Disney, but it's one of the reasons you still see advertisements for market leaders like Coke and McDonald'sthe front of mind awareness helps them stay number one.

My guess is that Disney has done the research, and either knows they won't lose enough of the loyalists or the loyalists are such a small percentage of visitors that they don't financially matter.

I agree with your last paragraph. WDW knows all of this IMO and they have a plan where they are going to try to strike a balance.

Every decision is based on profit...perhaps this is where the focus on making onsite guests satisfied comes from (so it seems as of now anyway) and also why this would appeal to first-time visitors more than the loyalists.

Regarding profit, I know that I have become more and more thrifty the more we go, partly because I know how and partly because there are only so many Mickey plushes one family needs. WDW made much more profit off of us the first time we went than they do now.

 

[Planogirl]

Disney is firmly entrenched in people's minds and going there has literally become a rite of passage. That type of thing is hard to change if it ever does. Plus the half day parks of course get a boost in attendance due to multi-park passes. I don't really see how that matters when it comes to overall profit though.

Universal has done remarkable things and deserves praise for coming so far. Even with that, I doubt that they will or even expect to bypass Disney.

 

[tjevans]

Universal has done remarkable things and deserves praise for coming so far. Even with that, I doubt that they will or even expect to bypass Disney.

After seeing the numbers someone else posted, I doubt they would want to even get to number 4 without some serious expansion; it would make their parks so crowded that the crowd level would drive down guest satisfaction. I'm quite sure they are happy with how well they are doing, but every company wants to do better.

 

[nugov2]

Just to put things in perspective - according to wiki, the 2012 attendance #s

1. MK - 17.5M
6. EP - 11.1M
7. AK - 10.0M
8. HS - 9.9M
10. IoA - 8.0M
16. US - 6.2M

I don't think IoA is nipping at the heels of AK or HS. IoA would need to increase attendance by ~25% to get to HS.

Now, the general consensus is IoA/US is growing in leaps and bounds. That is true from 2009 to 2011 where you see the impact of opening HP. But looking at 2011 vs 2012, I don't see the continued growth. We will have to see what the Diagon Alley does at US.

1. MK - 394K
6. EP - 238K
7. AK - 215K
8. HS - 213K
10. IoA - 307K
16. US - 151K

Everyone likes to use their anecdotal experiences and assume that it is universally true. Reality generally doesn't back that up.

It will be years before anyone can tell the impact of FP+. And even then there will be so many other variables changing (think economic, social, etc.) that it will be difficult to pinpoint a single cause.

Back to the food fight - sorry for the interruption.

I don't think my experiences are universally true, but I will say I was surprised when planning how much advice we got to skip the WDW parks and see what else there is available.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think my experiences are universally true, but I will say I was surprised when planning how much advice we got to skip the WDW parks and see what else there is available.

I always hear people saying to skip DHS and AK and lately some are saying Epcot. I never skip any parks so it always surprises me when others are advised to.

 

[Planogirl]

After seeing the numbers someone else posted, I doubt they would want to even get to number 4 without some serious expansion; it would make their parks so crowded that the crowd level would drive down guest satisfaction. I'm quite sure they are happy with how well they are doing, but every company wants to do better.

ITA. After all, Disney doesn't seem to worry much about huge crowds having enough to do. Or at least that's what some people think.

 

[freediverdude]

I agree with your last paragraph. WDW knows all of this IMO and they have a plan where they are going to try to strike a balance.

Every decision is based on profit...perhaps this is where the focus on making onsite guests satisfied comes from (so it seems as of now anyway) and also why this would appeal to first-time visitors more than the loyalists.

Regarding profit, I know that I have become more and more thrifty the more we go, partly because I know how and partly because there are only so many Mickey plushes one family needs. WDW made much more profit off of us the first time we went than they do now.

Yep, Disney World seems to be marketing mainly to the once-in-a-lifetime or once-every-10-years visitor, whom they think will buy the expensive package at the deluxe resorts, and plans this type of vacation way in advance. For these people fastpass+ and all the planning works out very nicely. For everyone else, though....and I'm not sure if Disney completely realizes the implications of that yet.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Just to put things in perspective - according to wiki, the 2012 attendance #s

1. MK - 17.5M
6. EP - 11.1M
7. AK - 10.0M
8. HS - 9.9M
10. IoA - 8.0M
16. US - 6.2M

That lists also states that apparently 7.6 of the 17.5 million visitors to MK don't find HS worth attending.

 

[Mkrop]

If Universal can acquire more land and opens another park, things are going to get interesting. As it is, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios just barely beat out Islands of Adventure in attendance. It's not an all enhancing resort vacation like Disney is, but their parks are just as great, and their hotels and service at least rival Disney's.

I just wish they did not have SO many simulator rides. They did in DH and DS16 last time. They can do all the coasters but not the simulators.

I thought some parts of US and IOA were themed really well.

 

[clsteve]

Yep, Disney World seems to be marketing mainly to the once-in-a-lifetime or once-every-10-years visitor, whom they think will buy the expensive package at the deluxe resorts, and plans this type of vacation way in advance. For these people fastpass+ and all the planning works out very nicely. For everyone else, though....and I'm not sure if Disney completely realizes the implications of that yet.

And to add to your point, they've been targeting their marketing that way-
We've all seen how incredibly successful they're aggressive overseas marketing plan has been.

And the vast majority of these guests are in the once or twice in a lifetime demographic.

At least FP+ will do away with having to be in line behind a tour guide inserting 150 KTTW's (as long as we have a smart device).

 

[Aunt Michelle]

That lists also states that apparently 7.6 of the 17.5 million visitors to MK don't find HS worth attending.

One of those is me. I average about four trips to WDW a year and generally only visit DHS one time out of the four - in December for the lights. If the whole clan goes and we have to skip a park due to timing or funds/ticket restrictions, we skip DHS.

 

[daytondisney]

That lists also states that apparently 7.6 of the 17.5 million visitors to MK don't find HS worth attending.

Maybe not - Attendance figures would have to come from gate counts since Disney tix are good at all parks. DHS is smaller and should only take 1 day. MK is larger and might make a signficant number of guest devote more than 1 day. ParkHopper also would skew these numbers.

 

[daytondisney]

At least FP+ will do away with having to be in line behind a tour guide inserting 150 KTTW's (as long as we have a smart device).

Preach on!