If you've seen Fahrenheit 9/11, ask & discuss it here.

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by septbride2002
When did I say that you were not entilted to your opinion? Go ahead and have one - but that does not mean that I need to take your opinion as the final word. I try not to form an opinion on anything that I have not experienced first hand - do I have one, probably but I don't get into debate topics on them and claim to have the final answer. Again your examples of mud and porn are shallow - we are not discussing mud and porn but a politically motivated movie.

That's odd ... I cannot recall saying you had to take my opinion as the final word. That's another interesting strategy -- put words in someone else's mouth!

Since you try not to form an opinion on anything you have not experienced first hand, then do you have any opinions about illegal drugs, prostitution, illegal entry into the U.S., flag burning, alcoholism ... I could go on and on. Just curious as to your opinions and how you formed them -- without first-hand experience, of course.

My points about mud and porn are on point ... you simply choose not to recognize the relationship because it could endanger the bubble in which you choose to live.

BTW, please feel free to point out where I claimed to have the final answer on this topic.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by Joeblack
Hey Eeyore1954

You laughed at me (talk about petulant dismissal) when I bet the movie would go past 100 milion after a month of opening. As of yesterday, its box office is 61 million after only 9 days of showing in 1000 theaters. With an average daily box office of 4 million, it will get there in just 10 more days. We will see how much the movie grosses on July 26th in its first month.

My other prediction, that the movie will go a long way in accomplishing its main goal..well....we will have to wait and see. I am also willing to make a bet with you this time....will red wine do?

Here is the link

http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?sortdate=2004-07-03&p=.htm

JoeBlack--

You're not the only one who remembers that statement (er, misstatement) made by Steve.

And here he was talking about how "spin" was being employed to make the movie only "look" and "seem" successful.

 

[Joeblack]

Hey ThreecirclesÑ

Good to see you remember it. I tried looking for it but could not find the thread. I remember even wrevy was skeptical about the film.

Just wait until it opens overseas and comes out on DVD by September. Sean Hannity and Anne Coulter will probably enroll in film school.

By the way. Is it just me or are the (rolleyes) the quintessential form of petulant dismissal?

 

[septbride2002]

Eeyore - I find your points on mud and porn shallow due to the fact that neither point has anything to do with this movie. You are just trying to spin things your way by using obvious illustrations on a topic where not everything is so obvious.

Actually I have no opinion on flag burning. Yes I have opinions on drug use and alcoholism but I also don't go on to a message board and tell people how they should solve their issues. I've never had experience first hand therefore I would think my opinions would not be very valid to that person.

but again this has nothing to do with the topic so maybe I should explain the topic to you.

We are discussing a movie - maybe you should try seeing it before you become all high and mighty.

My opinion is that to fully be able to discuss a movie you need to see it. If you don't agree fine, I really don't care. Maybe seeing the movie might pop the little bubble you live in.

Too bad you are unable/unwilling to return the favor

This to me sounds like a little kid saying that since I don't agree with your opinion then I am not doing you the "favor" of respecting it.

And now I am officially done - your tired rantings have gone down to a level that I am not willing to go down to. I feel you are being rude and I do not respond to rudeness - you obviously cannot keep a conversation to the level of an adult and therefor I am tired of it.

In all seriousness - keep your opinion I think it is great that you have one but you will have to excuse those of us that think it has giant holes in it since you haven't even seen the movie.

~Amanda

 

[Joeblack]

 

[Joeblack]

From Time Magazine:

Miramax's Harvey Weinstein predicts a $ 100 million gross in the film's first three weeks.

No link. Go buy it.


Steeeveeeee?????

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Joeblack
From Time Magazine:

Miramax's Harvey Weinstein predicts a $ 100 million gross in the film's first three weeks.

No link. Go buy it.


Steeeveeeee?????

So? That doesn't mean the movie isn't full of half-truths and out and out lies and makes a mockery of documentaries. "JFK" made a lot of money, too. Of coures, there are people that believe that was a documentary as well.

 

[dmadman43]

Again your examples of mud and porn are shallow - we are not discussing mud and porn but a politically motivated movie.

Actually, they are not shallow. You seem to claim that unless someone sees a movie that are not enlightened enough to discuss it. MM has a pattern for making movies with sloppy editing that serve to only foment his political views. That's fine. He can do that. But, based on his other movies I'm pretty confident of what I am going to see. Just like I can have a pretty good idea on what I'm going to see if I were to rent "Bi The Military Zone" or "Boot Black II - Spit Shine", I know what I'm likely going to see just based on the descriptions. Same with a MM movie. Based on past movie reviews, coupled with reviews of this one, I pretty well know what type of tripe I'd be paying for.

 

[septbride2002]

Actually, they are not shallow. You seem to claim that unless someone sees a movie that are not enlightened enough to discuss it. MM has a pattern for making movies with sloppy editing that serve to only foment his political views. That's fine. He can do that. But, based on his other movies I'm pretty confident of what I am going to see. Just like I can have a pretty good idea on what I'm going to see if I were to rent "Bi The Military Zone" or "Boot Black II - Spit Shine", I know what I'm likely going to see just based on the descriptions. Same with a MM movie. Based on past movie reviews, coupled with reviews of this one, I pretty well know what type of tripe I'd be paying for.

And if you want to discuss previous Michael Moore documentaries with me then fine but I'm sorry your opinion does not change mine.

Lets just all agree to disagree on this point and move on.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by septbride2002
Thank you so much for pointing out the error in my post - it has been editted.

I'm sorry but I find the reasons for your ability to form an opinion without seeing the movie weak and unconvincing.

I will admit that no I have not seen previous Michael Moore documentaries - why because I didn't care - but I also did not go around preaching about a movie that I had not even bothered to see. I find that people who attack a movie/song/etc without actually having listen or seen it for themselves don't really have anything valid to add to the conversation. In my honest opinion your opinion is not valid therefore I find no need to continue to "talk" with you on the subject.

Mr. Blues I asked you earlier to provide facts for your opinions and you have ignored the request - I take it from your lack of response you have nothing further to add.

~Amanda

What's the point of having movie reviews then? Why does even Moore's distribution company even tout the rare positive reviews he is getting. If everyone must see a movie to form an opinion about it, aren't movie reviewers wasting their time.

By a show of hands who has chosen to go or not go to a movie based on the reviews it is getting?

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by septbride2002
Eeyore - I find your points on mud and porn shallow due to the fact that neither point has anything to do with this movie. You are just trying to spin things your way by using obvious illustrations on a topic where not everything is so obvious.

Spin? Not quite ... just trying to make some pertinent points -- at least from my perspective and in MY opinion.

Actually I have no opinion on flag burning. Yes I have opinions on drug use and alcoholism but I also don't go on to a message board and tell people how they should solve their issues. I've never had experience first hand therefore I would think my opinions would not be very valid to that person.

I would ask this then: how did you form your opinions on drug use and alcoholism? Was it from first-hand experience as you require?

Earlier the only stipulation you placed on opinions is that they be based on first-hand knowledge or experience. Are you adding more stipulations now ... such as you are not allowed to voice your opinions on a message board? Especially if they happen to disagree with someone else? That would sort of leave most message boards fairly dormant.

but again this has nothing to do with the topic so maybe I should explain the topic to you.

We are discussing a movie - maybe you should try seeing it before you become all high and mighty.

I brought up a point questioning your position that one has to see the movie in order to have a valid opinion of it. I disagree with it and am pointing out the logical conclusion of your argument.

My opinion is that to fully be able to discuss a movie you need to see it. If you don't agree fine, I really don't care. Maybe seeing the movie might pop the little bubble you live in.

I have no problem with your opinion and I do happen to disagree with it.

This to me sounds like a little kid saying that since I don't agree with your opinion then I am not doing you the "favor" of respecting it.

Please feel free to quote where I said I don't respect your opinion.

And now I am officially done - your tired rantings have gone down to a level that I am not willing to go down to. I feel you are being rude and I do not respond to rudeness - you obviously cannot keep a conversation to the level of an adult and therefor I am tired of it.

You really cannot handle disagreement well. Maybe it is best that you don't participate if that's a problem for you.

In all seriousness - keep your opinion I think it is great that you have one but you will have to excuse those of us that think it has giant holes in it since you haven't even seen the movie.

~Amanda

Thanks for the compliment! I think it's great you have an opinion also. We both see the same thing in each other. Now I find that interesting.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Joeblack
From Time Magazine:

Miramax's Harvey Weinstein predicts a $ 100 million gross in the film's first three weeks.

No link. Go buy it.


Steeeveeeee?????

I predict that Spierman 2 will break $200 million (gross) by this coming weekend.

I predict that King Arthur will recoup its costs, but not much more.

I predict I, Robot will give Spiderman 2 a run for it's money as a big time money-maker.

See? It's easy ... anyone can do it. As I've said before, predictions are like belly buttons ... everyone has one, but there are darn few worth spending time being seriously considered.

(BTW, is not the ultimate in petulant dismissal. IGNORE is. )

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by dmadman43
What's the point of having movie reviews then? Why does even Moore's distribution company even tout the rare positive reviews he is getting. If everyone must see a movie to form an opinion about it, aren't movie reviewers wasting their time.

By a show of hands who has chosen to go or not go to a movie based on the reviews it is getting?

I usually read reviews from Roger Ebert -- if he pans a movie, I figure I will like it; if he raves about a movie, I will usually avoid it. He's very helpful in that way. Of course, there are the occasional surprises where we actually agree on a film.

 

[richiebaseball]

Originally posted by Joeblack
My other prediction, that the movie will go a long way in accomplishing its main goal..well....we will have to wait and see.

Please forgive me for apparently not reading the other thread but what was the main goal in your opinion.

Richard

 

[Joeblack]

I believe that the main goal of Moore's movie is to get a representative percentage of the undecided/indifferent to vote against Bush and break the tie between him and Kerry come November.

Of course, that is just this man's opinion, Rich.

Hey Eeyore: It is easy to predict Spidey will break the 200 mil. mark the next weekend, but it seemed implausible to you that Fahrenheit 911 would reach 100 mil in one month, didn't it? Come on....be a good sport and admit it. And just wait until the DVD comes out about a month before elections. It will sell like pancakes and becoe the # 1 rental. Bottle of wine is still up for bets.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Joeblack
I believe that the main goal of Moore's movie is to get a representative percentage of the undecided/indifferent to vote against Bush and break the tie between him and Kerry come November.

Kinda blows the "documentary" idea out of the water, doesn't it?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by septbride2002
And if you want to discuss previous Michael Moore documentaries with me then fine

I'll be happy to discuss it. When does he plan to make one?

 

[Elwood Blues]

 

[Joeblack]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Kinda blows the "documentary" idea out of the water, doesn't it?

I don't see why Elwood. If, for instance, a documentary on gang murders in a community or about AIDS in an African country motivate some (or a lot of) people to take action and try to change things will not stop the film from being a documentary.

Here's a definition of the noun "Documentary"

doc·u·men·ta·ry (noun)

A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved

Now, if as some other posters have stated, they can pinpoint half-truths or lies in Fahrenheit 9-11 they are in luck because Michael Moore is considering paying $10.000 for each lie you can find in it.

I won't pay anything, but for the sake of this debate, I would like to see proof of a false fact in the movie, Anyone?.... dmadman?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by Joeblack
I don't see why Elwood. If, for instance, a documentary on gang murders in a community or about AIDS in an African country motivate some (or a lot of) people to take action and try to change things will not stop the film from being a documentary.

Here's a definition of the noun "Documentary"

doc·u·men·ta·ry (noun)

A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved

Now, if as some other posters have stated, they can pinpoint half-truths or lies in Fahrenheit 9-11 they are in luck because Michael Moore is considering paying $10.000 for each lie you can find in it.

I won't pay anything, but for the sake of this debate, I would like to see proof of a false fact in the movie, Anyone?.... dmadman?

Take your pick...

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251769/site/newsweek/

No worries. I'm not a wine drinker, so you can save your money. Just the satisfaction of knowing is payment enough.