If you quilify for welfare do you get actual money?

[cjbcam]

Well as long as you don't care how much student aid you get, or what child tax credits, or your FHA loan amounts.

Or any other subsidies you or your business get.

Never got student aid. Never had a FHA loan. Any and all amounts given toward anything that comes out of tax payers money should be public knowledge. People have a right to know how their money is being spent if you want to be blissfully unaware that's fine. Never once did I say look down on people on welfare.

 

[lauradis]

Precisely!


Lol, I am always amazed at how many people receive subsidies but look down their noses at welfare recipients.

Your forgetting the fact that "some" welfare recipients, dont pay into the system or that they take more then they pay into.

So explain how that is ok?

 

[Granny square]

Your forgetting the fact that "some" welfare recipients, dont pay into the system or that they take more then they pay into. So explain how that is ok?

Some pell grant recipients don't either.

I don't want to know what every welfare recipient is buying in the grocery store. I don't want to know what every student is spending their pell money on.

I know people who not only don't pay taxes but get back more than they put in because of their kid credits. Where are they contributing? I would love it if there were no cheaters. But policing the grocery line or food bank lines is not my cuppa.

Is it ok? I don't know. It is what it is. I lean towards libertarian beliefs but that isn't the way our govt is set up right now. So I can have a kinniption over the twinkles ahead of me or I can relax and mmob.

 

[Granny square]

Your forgetting the fact that "some" welfare recipients, dont pay into the system or that they take more then they pay into. So explain how that is ok?

And pretty sure I wasn't "forgetting" anything.

 

[Gracie09]

Your forgetting the fact that "some" welfare recipients, dont pay into the system or that they take more then they pay into. So explain how that is ok?

That some is a very small percentage. Are you counting all social welfare in your definition of welfare? Because food stamps go to working poor, including some military families. I would argue they "pay" into the system even if it's not monetarily. There will always be people who for whatever reason don't pay into the system or take more than they pay for. Just like there are people who will pay more than they ever take. It's kind of the way social welfare is set up. To allow those at the poorer end of the scale not to starve to death and have a place to live. On a more macro level, many states pay more taxes to the federal govt than they receive in services, my state included and there are those who receive much more in services than they pay in taxes. But there's no uproar that Florida shouldn't get that money or a say in how it's spent. Should the citizens of nj get to veto how Florida spends it's highway dollars? After all they are really my tax dollars.

 

[HeyMickeyUSoFine]

Did you report them for welfare fraud? Welfare fraud is probably not as prevalent as people believe, but it would be less prevalent than it is if people would report it. And it isn't hard to prove since she needs to pay the bills for the phones, which means a bank account (you don't move $50k a year in cash and pay for cell phone contracts), which means its a simple audit. Without people reporting fraud, the system has no way to address those that do it.

I didn't want to get into this but it always amazes me that people don't think welfare and food stamp fraud are that prevalent.. I grew up around it, was briefly on it myself after I had my child, and still know lots of people on it. When I was growing up people weren't too quick to buy them and guys didn't want to use them because they were paper. They stuck together, came in many books, and were just embarrassing to use. The only thing the card did was increase food stamp fraud. Now, lots of people buy them and lots of young able bodied men go join the program. My 25 year old male cousin gets $200 a month which he sells because he lives with a girl that gets her own. They don't pay rent or utilities, get free food and cell phones. What incentive do they have to work? At tax time they charge someone to claim their kids so that's money in their pockets. This is not just one couple I'm referencing, this includes many people. My best friend hasn't worked in 15 years. She also has no bills and goes to sign her kids up for Christmas programs every year.They live really good because her boyfriend lives with her so all they money he brings into the house is free for them to spend as they like. So she's never put a dime toward raising the two children she decided to have. There's no use reporting it because there's no way to prove he lives there. His name isn't on anything and he receives no mail there. There's also no way to prove how much money someone has because you can just tell them you don't have a bank account. It's not just the lazy people getting over. A co-worker lied and said her husband had left her so that they could get WIC and stamps. She found out about that trick through word of mouth. Again,you can't prove she's lying. Finally, there are people that work in the office that hook up there friends or family by conducting phone interviews. I do think they're trying to crack down on that though. I could go on and on. This system is being exploited to the point that it's going to bankrupt us one day. These people look at it as free money. They don't realize the government has no money. Believe me, the truly needy aren't getting any assistance. Elderly people have paid into this system and are the most dependent group on healthy eating and they can't get but $15 or $20 month. They're trying to live on a set amount of money and buy medicine and the system will let them starve but reward someone for popping out multiple babies. It's crazy. And people that work but don't make enough to make ends meet aren't getting help either. There's got to be a better way.

 

[HeyMickeyUSoFine]

There are federal and state time limits. Yes, there are exceptions and loopholes, but it's nothing like when my sister raised her kids for 20+ years and never worked and collected welfare and food stamps and rent assistance while her husband worked under the table. Lots and lots of those loopholes have been closed.

Angie, that's not true. I still know plenty of people doing just that. People will always find a way around the system.

 

[eliza61]

Angie, that's not true. I still know plenty of people doing just that. People will always find a way around the system.

No one is denying that. no one is denying there isn't fraud every where. heck the entire credit card industry is riled with it. that drives interest rates up. The insurance industry has it's fraud which cost us.

Heck, the movie industry swears that bootleg dvd's is killing them.
Not to mention, the special interest folks who steal or in their jargon "misappropriate" funds.

the only difference is the poor are easier targets.

 

[HeyMickeyUSoFine]

No one is denying that. no one is denying there isn't fraud every where. heck the entire credit card industry is riled with it. that drives interest rates up. The insurance industry has it's fraud which cost us.

Heck, the movie industry swears that bootleg dvd's is killing them.
Not to mention, the special interest folks who steal or in their jargon "misappropriate" funds.

the only difference is the poor are easier targets.

I understand your point but I don't think it's the same. Obviously, fraud drives up credit card cost and insurance rates. So don't get a credit card. And some effort is put into trying to control insurance fraud, but not much effort is being put into food stamp and welfare fraud. Well, you can only get welfare for two years so that limits that to a degree, but the housing and food stamps are indefinite. When you have people on the system for 20 years or so, this is a continuous drain on the system. And lets define poor people, there is a difference in the disabled or low-income earning individuals and those that just won't work. So my biggest concern isn't necessarily the fraud as it is the potential and motivation for success is being stifled by these handouts.

 

[pocomom]

Never got student aid. Never had a FHA loan. Any and all amounts given toward anything that comes out of tax payers money should be public knowledge. People have a right to know how their money is being spent if you want to be blissfully unaware that's fine. Never once did I say look down on people on welfare.

So this would apply to federal workers too?

 

[chobie]

Never got student aid. Never had a FHA loan. Any and all amounts given toward anything that comes out of tax payers money should be public knowledge. People have a right to know how their money is being spent if you want to be blissfully unaware that's fine. Never once did I say look down on people on welfare.

So, maybe there should be a welfare registry listing like sex offenders, and you can look up on the Internet where people live who are get any type of government assistance, and then you can do a "knock and announce" and barge into their house to see how your tax dollars are being spent?

 

[jennab]

Aren't Federal wages public? I work for a state agency and our salaries are public as it's paid by taxpayers.

 

[LisaNJ25]

Aren't Federal wages public? I work for a state agency and our salaries are public as it's paid by taxpayers.

yes. As well as state and county. My husband is a county employee and NJ has a data base you can look up employees.

 

[pocomom]

Aren't Federal wages public? I work for a state agency and our salaries are public as it's paid by taxpayers.

The wages might be but not how the person getting them spends the money. That's what we are talking about... when we are justifying staring at people in the grocery line and judging them based on a snapshot... I mean I'm a vegetarian I don't want my tax dollars going towards some federal employee buying meat. Isn't it all just a little silly? I'll go back to the earlier example of my friend from the food bank thread - I think it is disgraceful that an injured soldier's family NEEDS food stamps, and I'm am damn sure I feel he "earned" them. Do I think ANYONE should be standing in the supermarket judging the content of his families cart? Hell no. It can be all steaks and Twinkies for all I care if it makes him happy. And you should be disgraced as I am that we as a nation aren't helping him more. He would love to be able to use his legs and his body enough to work, he would love to earn money for his family, but he gave that up for his country and now his wife needs to worry about what people say to her and her kids, and what they think about her and her choices, and about how they act towards her in the grocery store if she uses the benefits they qualify for? It is ridiculous.

 

[lexysdad04]

The wages might be but not how the person getting them spends the money. That's what we are talking about... when we are justifying staring at people in the grocery line and judging them based on a snapshot... I mean I'm a vegetarian I don't want my tax dollars going towards some federal employee buying meat. Isn't it all just a little silly? I'll go back to the earlier example of my friend from the food bank thread - I think it is disgraceful that an injured soldier's family NEEDS food stamps, and I'm am damn sure I feel he "earned" them. Do I think ANYONE should be standing in the supermarket judging the content of his families cart? Hell no. It can be all steaks and Twinkies for all I care if it makes him happy. And you should be disgraced as I am that we as a nation aren't helping him more. He would love to be able to use his legs and his body enough to work, he would love to earn money for his family, but he gave that up for his country and now his wife needs to worry about what people say to her and her kids, and what they think about her and her choices, and about how they act towards her in the grocery store if she uses the benefits they qualify for? It is ridiculous.

Wow wish their was a "like" button

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I didn't want to get into this but it always amazes me that people don't think welfare and food stamp fraud are that prevalent.. I grew up around it, was briefly on it myself after I had my child, and still know lots of people on it. When I was growing up people weren't too quick to buy them and guys didn't want to use them because they were paper. They stuck together, came in many books, and were just embarrassing to use. The only thing the card did was increase food stamp fraud. Now, lots of people buy them and lots of young able bodied men go join the program. My 25 year old male cousin gets $200 a month which he sells because he lives with a girl that gets her own. They don't pay rent or utilities, get free food and cell phones. What incentive do they have to work? At tax time they charge someone to claim their kids so that's money in their pockets. This is not just one couple I'm referencing, this includes many people. My best friend hasn't worked in 15 years. She also has no bills and goes to sign her kids up for Christmas programs every year.They live really good because her boyfriend lives with her so all they money he brings into the house is free for them to spend as they like. So she's never put a dime toward raising the two children she decided to have. There's no use reporting it because there's no way to prove he lives there. His name isn't on anything and he receives no mail there. There's also no way to prove how much money someone has because you can just tell them you don't have a bank account. It's not just the lazy people getting over. A co-worker lied and said her husband had left her so that they could get WIC and stamps. She found out about that trick through word of mouth. Again,you can't prove she's lying. Finally, there are people that work in the office that hook up there friends or family by conducting phone interviews. I do think they're trying to crack down on that though. I could go on and on. This system is being exploited to the point that it's going to bankrupt us one day. These people look at it as free money. They don't realize the government has no money. Believe me, the truly needy aren't getting any assistance. Elderly people have paid into this system and are the most dependent group on healthy eating and they can't get but $15 or $20 month. They're trying to live on a set amount of money and buy medicine and the system will let them starve but reward someone for popping out multiple babies. It's crazy. And people that work but don't make enough to make ends meet aren't getting help either. There's got to be a better way.

So have you reported them for fraud, since it sounds like they are committing fraud on several fronts and several levels, including apparently tax fraud, since you cannot just rent out your children at tax time?

 

[Granny square]

So have you reported them for fraud, since it sounds like they are committing fraud on several fronts and several levels, including apparently tax fraud, since you cannot just rent out your children at tax time?

No kidding!

I'm thinking I'd rethink my relationship with people like that.

I think it depends on the people you know. Our town was hit hard by an industry closing. 23% unemployment, can't sell their homes to move, etc. unemployment benefits stopped 6 months ago. Our food bank went from serving 100 a day to 500. :/ these are the people the system was set up to help. Short term, hard working folks, who have, as someone mentioned at some point, put their time and money into the system.

 

[StuckInKS]

Why? Aside from the fact that one outstrips the other by a factor of 1,000 to 1?

Because people don't care when rich people and politicians steal or waste their money because hey, at least they have a job It is just the single moms sitting at home and getting a few hundred a month that people really care about

Listen, people like Madoff affected some peoples' entire lives. The bit of tax money that "welfare queens" are taking would not remain in your pocket otherwise. I PROMISE you that the government would spend it on something just as wasteful. Your taxes are NOT about to go down just because they cracked down on fraud in the welfare system. So I, like the PP, do not understand why there are always 20-page threads complaining about welfare abuse and never any (that I have seen anyway) on larger instances of fraud

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

No kidding!

I'm thinking I'd rethink my relationship with people like that.

I think it depends on the people you know. Our town was hit hard by an industry closing. 23% unemployment, can't sell their homes to move, etc. unemployment benefits stopped 6 months ago. Our food bank went from serving 100 a day to 500. :/ these are the people the system was set up to help. Short term, hard working folks, who have, as someone mentioned at some point, put their time and money into the system.

Not only would they no longer be my friend, I'd have reported them a long time ago, lest I be considered an accessory after the fact to multiple counts of felony fraud at both the state and federal levels.

 

[eliza61]

I understand your point but I don't think it's the same. Obviously, fraud drives up credit card cost and insurance rates. So don't get a credit card. And some effort is put into trying to control insurance fraud, but not much effort is being put into food stamp and welfare fraud. Well, you can only get welfare for two years so that limits that to a degree, but the housing and food stamps are indefinite. When you have people on the system for 20 years or so, this is a continuous drain on the system. And lets define poor people, there is a difference in the disabled or low-income earning individuals and those that just won't work. So my biggest concern isn't necessarily the fraud as it is the potential and motivation for success is being stifled by these handouts.

But here's the thing. MOST people are not on welfare for 20 years. If you look at statistics (and that's my livilhood). the average food stamp reciept is on food stamps for maybe 5 years. So no the food stamps are not indefinite. In New Jersey if you are an able bodied (meaning no disabilities) your snap assistance stops every 6 months and you have to come in to renew.

Now I know everyone on the dis has a mother, brother, uncle and aunt who are living like kings on public assistance but that is not the normal.

Now as far as potential or motivation. I work with the poor and if that is the type of life one thinks is "successful" they have bigger problems.
No one in the hood is going around saying they are living la vida loca. Most snap households have either a child, a senior or a disable person in them.
The average household income of a person on snap is $744 bucks a month (net). not exactly what I would call the "high life".


Now it maybe that the non profit church that I work with is not tied into a persons food stamp or assistance so the people who come to us do so because they want to better themselves. they are very motivated to change their situation but most feel battered down by life and unfortunately see no way out.

Food stamp use generally follows the unemployment. so once again this garbage about people being on it for 20 years is very rare. Snap benefits have flatten out this year and the CBO (and yes I realize many folks here hate the government so it's up to you to believe the numbers or not) has caluculated that the numbers needed snap will decline begininng 2015.