If RCID is dissolved, what happens with DVC?

[sndral]

So Disney can't do anything for 14 months? They have not single action they could try to not lose the district?

I'm saying so many people, lawyers, locals, etc. reading the fine print are suggesting things Disney can do.
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And regardless of that, we probably won't know what will noticeably change until June 2023 anyway. Even if it goes away as stated, we then just learn about the new structure with the 2 counties. Just like we learn about Anaheim or other places for every other theme park(like universal). So the panic and doomsday takes of "its open and shut, a hopless..." annoy me. Thats all.

Whenever a legislature passes new legislation anyone w/ standing can sue to invalidate all or part of that legislation. So step one would be to challenge the legislation in court. I’m curious if the bond holders of the 1 or 2 billion in debt would have standing to sue. This is all out of my area of interest, but I’ve been thinking about shooting a text to a former colleague who moved on to muni law, albeit not in Florida.

 

[TreAntDeu]

Whenever a legislature passes new legislation anyone w/ standing can sue to invalidate all or part of that legislation. So step one would be to challenge the legislation in court. I’m curious if the bond holders of the 1 or 2 billion in debt would have standing to sue. This is all out of my area of interest, but I’ve been thinking about shooting a text to a former colleague who moved on to muni law, albeit not in Florida.

The more professional takes out there, the more people can relax imo.

Id be curious what they have to say

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

So Disney can't do anything for 14 months? They have not single action they could try to not lose the district?

I'm saying so many people, lawyers, locals, etc. reading the fine print are suggesting things Disney can do.
.
And regardless of that, we probably won't know what will noticeably change until June 2023 anyway. Even if it goes away as stated, we then just learn about the new structure with the 2 counties. Just like we learn about Anaheim or other places for every other theme park(like universal). So the panic and doomsday takes of "its open and shut, a hopless..." annoy me. Thats all.

Okay. Now I understand. Nothing here is hopeless at all. Not for us, the consumer. This is one of those times that we, as consumers can shut our eyes to all of that and just enjoy our parks. If you are a shareholder, then there might be some issues. But for consumers, those parks are going to keep operating and I am going to keep making park reservations and enjoying them. It really doesn't matter much to the consumers.

 

[BeachClub2014]

This is a culture war. And they are determined to fire a torpedo at a left-wing company...even if it causes some collateral damage.

If this commentary proves accurate, it is the potential "collateral damage" that concerns me. What is the potential damage to us DVC owners? That's the $64,000 question.

 

[RivShore]

Once the resort was developed, it was supposed to revert back to the counties to control.

I suppose an argument could be made that the resort is under an almost constant state of development between hotels, parks, attractions and general infrastructure. When has there not been a working crane on property?

Not sure if it's somewhere in this thread but I read one story that quoted a state legislator saying that if RC is revoked, Disney can request it be reinstated under the current constitution. Chances are this ends up being much ado about nothing...

 

[jerry557]

I suppose an argument could be made that the resort is under an almost constant state of development between hotels, parks, attractions and general infrastructure. When has there not been a working crane on property?

Not sure if it's somewhere in this thread but I read one story that quoted a state legislator saying that if RC is revoked, Disney can request it be reinstated under the current constitution. Chances are this ends up being much ado about nothing...

Unless there is new management that smooths things over, that's going to be an uphill battle. Chapek burned the bridge, and its been said he's not that much of a people person.

Of course the way things have been going, new management isn't out of the question either. I mean right now Disney is the worst performing stock on the Dow Jones, down 31% over the past year. Not all of that is on Chapek, but he's mistepping all over the place.

 

[Huberp2824]

I love this topic and all of the well thought out comments and opinions. I find this very fascinating from a strategic standpoint of both the company (Dis) and the Fl State Government. What is most interesting is the local government being mum on the subject right now and we will have to wait and see where they land in the overall discussion.

IMHO, and only an opinion, is going to be the DIS Stock price tomorrow at close. As of today, and as news spread of the special session, stock price dropped by more than $7.00. The over under by close tomorrow is another $20.00 sending the stick price down to nearly $100.00 /share. That damage, and to quote the movie Avatar, “…but there’s one thing that shareholders hate more than bad press and that’s a bad quarterly statement”.

Whether we agree with the current move or not, for all of us (me included) who wanted Chapek out the door a few months ago, and even now, should have been careful what we wished for. I believe that will happen now more than ever, but at what cost for our wish? Likely increased property taxes, less road maintenance or increased, Fire and EMS being serviced by “the next on the run card” and not RCFD, and likely re-assessment of property as a whole, all to be passed onto the consumer with the statement, “You can thank DeSantis”.

Again, this is only my opinion like so many others. I applaud all who are contributing to this string / topic as we are owners, patreons and consumers with a love for Disney, and those things which affect our Happy Place.

 

[DonMacGregor]

However, most of these are residential districts or they are serving some sort of continued purpose. So they aren't really a target for the legislature. Reedy Creek has always been on thin ice because Disney is a very large company with a lot of cash.tors like Universal don't have such privileges.

One question I’d throw out there is whether RCID isn’t still serving a continued purpose by lifting the cost of improvements to and maintenance of infrastructure and the provision of general services off of Orange and Osceola Counties. Aside from specific secondary roads serving the resorts, the vast majority of streets and highways within WDW are not restricted use and can be accessed and enjoyed by anyone.

I know there was a huge to-do over I believe $125M in infrastructure costs for the new Epic Universe theme park and some public outcry about the use of public funds. That isn’t an issue with Reedy Creek.

Just throwing it out there that there is a potential ongoing tangible benefit and purpose to the existence of RCID.

 

[Sandisw]

I have deleted a few posts that included comments that will simply cause this to go the wrong way.

Please please please keep comments to impact of DVC or Disney in general and leave out opinions about why it was done Or any statement that seems political as those are off limits.

So far, I didn’t issue any warnings or infractions, and I don’t want to nor do I want to shut the thread down because 99% of it has been a great conversation.

 

[RivShore]

I love this topic and all of the well thought out comments and opinions. I find this very fascinating from a strategic standpoint of both the company (Dis) and the Fl State Government. What is most interesting is the local government being mum on the subject right now and we will have to wait and see where they land in the overall discussion.

IMHO, and only an opinion, is going to be the DIS Stock price tomorrow at close. As of today, and as news spread of the special session, stock price dropped by more than $7.00. The over under by close tomorrow is another $20.00 sending the stick price down to nearly $100.00 /share. That damage, and to quote the movie Avatar, “…but there’s one thing that shareholders hate more than bad press and that’s a bad quarterly statement”.

Whether we agree with the current move or not, for all of us (me included) who wanted Chapek out the door a few months ago, and even now, should have been careful what we wished for. I believe that will happen now more than ever, but at what cost for our wish? Likely increased property taxes, less road maintenance or increased, Fire and EMS being serviced by “the next on the run card” and not RCFD, and likely re-assessment of property as a whole, all to be passed onto the consumer with the statement, “You can thank DeSantis”.

Again, this is only my opinion like so many others. I applaud all who are contributing to this string / topic as we are owners, patreons and consumers with a love for Disney, and those things which affect our Happy Place.

Today's stock drop had nothing to do with RC and everything to do with Netflix's disappointing numbers.

 

[wdrl]

I believe one reason why Disney and the city and county governments haven't made specific comments about the legislation to dissolve RCID is that no one has actually seen the actual legislation and, more importantly, no one has had time to analyze how dissolving RCID will impact the operations of the affected cities and counties. It's pretty hard to accurately and definitively say how any proposed legislation will affect governmental services or impact taxpayers if no one has had the time to figure out what will fill the vacuum caused by RCID's demise.

Unfortunately, no one seems to be asking the question whether governmental services are more efficient and are being delivered in a more cost-effective manner with RCID than by replacing it with several different governmental jurisdictions. Neither the governor nor the state senators who are pushing for the dissolution of RCID have indicated they are trying to improve how services are being delivered.

 

[RivShore]

Significant impact on homeowners and DVC taxes if this is correct

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...-if-reedy-creek-dissolves-tax-collector-says/

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I believe one reason why Disney and the city and county governments haven't made specific comments about the legislation to dissolve RCID is that no one has actually seen the actual legislation and, more importantly, no one has had time to analyze how dissolving RCID will impact the operations of the affected cities and counties. It's pretty hard to accurately and definitively say how any proposed legislation will affect governmental services or impact taxpayers if no one has had the time to figure out what will fill the vacuum caused by RCID's demise.

Unfortunately, no one seems to be asking the question whether governmental services are more efficient and are being delivered in a more cost-effective manner with RCID than by replacing it with several different governmental jurisdictions. Neither the governor nor the state senators who are pushing for the dissolution of RCID have indicated they are trying to improve how services are being delivered.

I think it's short-sighted to ram legislation quickly like this. I understand there is ire and the governor may want to set an example, remind Disney they are a "guest" in the state, other political reasons like elections, etc. But really, radical changes like these should be considered carefully and cautiously, especially in consideration of the close and generally friendly partnership that the state and Disney have had for half a century. It's scary as DVC owners, given how much we have invested in future WDW vacations, to witness relations deteriorate so fast and punishment meted out so quickly. It's scary that the sponsors of the bill admit that they don't understand the economic ramifications of the action themselves and proceed anyway. I never thought the state government, or rather its willingness to use its powers to bully WDW into "good behavior," might become a consideration in purchasing or keeping DVC...

One silver lining is that, once the house passes this, there will be over a year before RCID dissolution takes effect, and hopefully an arrangement can be worked out. WDW is beautiful and Disney has been generally committed to high standards of landscaping, road maitanence, infrastructure, waste management, pest control, etc, and I just don't think Osceola and Orange counties would be able to deliver the same. Nor do they seem to want to take this on if they can continue to collect property taxes and avoid all that hassle. I have hope, but I also had hoped it wouldn't come as far as it has already.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Many compare to Universal and ask why they're able to manage fine without a special district. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Universal is very small, there aren't hundreds of miles of roads, turf, etc to maintain.

 

[WeatherLights]

Just spitballing on this and by no means an expert on anything having to do with, well, anything at issue here. But my first take is that there is no remedy in law to prevent the dissolution of the special district. My second take, however, is that, if the special district is dissolved, Disney might have a decent 5th Amendment takings clause argument? Would the State of Florida have to compensate Disney for the loss of their property value as a result of dissolving the special district? That could potentially be a lot of money. Don't know, but interested to see how this plays out.

 

[ziravan]

My best guess is the legislature has a year to deal with this and the most likely outcome is we never know what goes down in the room where it happens and some peace deal is made.

I DO think the legislation this week will pass.

If it does, the most likely outcome (barring some peace deal later) is the legislature re-authorizes the RCID before June ‘23 with the same taxing authority, assets and debts, but maybe (depending on what goes down in the room where it happens) some minor or major change to how the RCID governing board gets elected.

The reason why I say this is we all (DVC Members) pay RCID property taxes and that’s part of the taxing authority of the ID. If RCID goes away, so does the authority to collect those taxes. I read those taxes (ours and Disney Hotel parts) is about $150 million/year. So. The legislature has 150 million reasons to keep the RCID intact even if it takes some or all control away from TWDC.

That will also solve all the concerns about moving debt to Orange and Osceola Co. Keep the current structure intact but remove TWDC’s autonomy.

So far as previously legislation requiring a vote from residents, that doesn’t mean anything. No legislature is bound to the edicts of previous legislatures. A new statute that amends a prior statute isn’t in conflict with the amended parts.

This passes and the point is made. What happens next is what matters. The RCID probably gets re-authorized before next year with either:

1. The governing board elected the same way (Disney stays at the helm).

2. Some combination of TWDC and public control. Say, 11 person board: TWDC, Orange, Osceola each get two seats, Voters in each of Orange and Osceola each get two seats, and Gov’s office gets to nominate chair.

3. Only Orange, Osceola, and the Gov’s office control the board.

But the sky is falling “all Orange and Osceola Co residents will have to pay $2,200 more in property taxes each year“ is never going to happen. Not if THEIR governing commissions want to keep THEIR seats. The bottom line is WDW foots the bill for this stuff now, and will in the future as well. Whether that’s an expense against profit or a new tax is semantics. The issue here isn’t about who pays, but who controls.

 

[ziravan]

If the RCID is re-authorized, no matter who controls, DVC’s role (property tax payer for RCID) should remain the same. No matter what happens, they aren’t just gonna let us out of a portion of the property taxes we’re already used to paying. . . .

 

[jade1]

Disney itself seems quiet on the issue. Have they commented on the potential impacts to DVC owners and other customers? I've done some searches but can't find much hard reporting on potential impacts to us consumers.

I think Bob was probably given advice.

 

[Cyberc1978]

What is RCID and all this about? I must have missed it?

 

[MouseOfCards]

WSJ Article: Florida Senate Passes Bill to Eliminate Disney’s Special Tax District
https://www.wsj.com/articles/florid...curpx7x4gr4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink