If New Changes, Question About "Old Grandfathered" Resale

[js]

We purchased 420 resale points in 2009 for SSR.
When DVC changed their rules a year or so ago about resales no longer being able to use their poitns for CC and DCL, we were grandfathered in and our points were seen when booking as points purchased from Disney.

Now, if there are new changes coming, I'm guessing that we will still be grandfathered since we were once already? I know nothing is certain but just wanted to throw it out there.

Thanks.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney can do what ever they want but I would expect that any additional restrictions would be grandfathered also.

Bill

 

[Dean]

We purchased 420 resale points in 2009 for SSR.
When DVC changed their rules a year or so ago about resales no longer being able to use their poitns for CC and DCL, we were grandfathered in and our points were seen when booking as points purchased from Disney.

Now, if there are new changes coming, I'm guessing that we will still be grandfathered since we were once already? I know nothing is certain but just wanted to throw it out there.

Thanks.

I think you're safe assuming you'd be grandfathered, the only issue that might get you could be related to a VIP system if one were to be developed.

 

[js]

I think you're safe assuming you'd be grandfathered, the only issue that might get you could be related to a VIP system if one were to be developed.

Thanks Dean, why would that be? Is it the amount of points or just thinking that they would make something called VIP which would be only for direct sales. I'm guessing you are the same Dean from tug due to your avatar, is that correct?

Thanks.

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean, why would that be? Is it the amount of points or just thinking that they would make something called VIP which would be only for direct sales. I'm guessing you are the same Dean from tug due to your avatar, is that correct?

Thanks.

While I'm surprised they haven't created a VIP program, it seems unlikely this late in the game. However, IF they did, it'd likely be based on how many qualified points you owned so you'd have to both have enough points to qualify and have those count as retail points (inc those before March). I have participated with TUG over the years but not as much the last year or so.

 

[njmeisje]

Dean, would you give us your best guess at what that qualified points level could be? Are we talking something as high as 1000?

Thanks, and I get this is all rumor, spit-balling.

 

[joeyrose]

it would seem to me that once a grandfather, always a grandfather.

 

[js]

it would seem to me that once a grandfather, always a grandfather.

That's what I'm thinking/hoping.

 

[Dean]

Dean, would you give us your best guess at what that qualified points level could be? Are we talking something as high as 1000?

Thanks, and I get this is all rumor, spit-balling.

We've had this discussion before so I don't want to get too involved in it this time. My guess is somewhere around 400 & 800 qualified points for a 2 tier system (plus the based level), 400, 700 & 1000 for a 3 tier system and so on. Once you get to 4 or 5 levels, you likely drop the qualifying amount to around 300 to start. I doubt referrals would be included as a criteria. Bluegreen has 4 levels above base, Marriott has 2 (timeshare), I'm not sure about Wyndham so I'll let others comment that are more certain.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

i know your vry "frank", bill....& i think you are are also very accurate.

but if the disney leaders that are behind the dvc scenes/curtains...
then why even consider any grandfather @ all? it does nothing
except to maintain the feelings of the resales group & worst
leaves direct owners feeling over looked. ans since the direct
buyers represent a small pool toward future/new direct
sales..then one would think they would be trying to increase
positive outcomes in that area ( like giving direct owners
good reasons to brag/influence their friends toward direct
sales).

anyhoots...since we became owners, i have been learning as much as
i can. though many are expecting these resales to a limited range,
i am hoping they are conducting meetings as a group so they
can take in all the type of changes they could do...as to protect
their interests from both (resales/direct) group. maybe seek
out an imagineer to "explore" all the possibilities. and if they 're
reading here, why not use a lil'imagination?

and i ust add one more lil'suggestion.....if you are reading so
often...then dvc is aware that there are some pretty capable
timeshares experts-plus dvc owners, seek their input.


..dean, on the other thread...your response had me
wondering about having several deeds but in reality , be treated
the same as one-where you couldn't sale off one? why do
that in the first place if you couldn't do that--unless figuring
extra processing for the costs?

as for the vip program based, on number of points. from what
i am reading here, many invest on the resales to get those
high numbers....& dvc would hear from direct owners about
resales being rewarded with the vip program. i guess if it
only could obtain by direct sales then it would be ok. my
best guess, resales point would not be counted.

 

[zavandor]

but if the disney leaders that are behind the dvc scenes/curtains...
then why even consider any grandfather @ all? it does nothing
except to maintain the feelings of the resales group & worst
leaves direct owners feeling over looked.

It does give the feeling that DVC is a way better timeshare company than any other on the market. Corporate reputation is very important in general and super important for Disney.

 

[njmeisje]

Ok, sorry Dean

 

[Dean]

Ok, sorry Dean

no reason to be sorry, it was a legit question. There's a large thread on the subject you may want to look for.

It does give the feeling that DVC is a way better timeshare company than any other on the market. Corporate reputation is very important in general and super important for Disney.

I agree up to a point, however, I think there are others that are equal to DVC. I also don't believe DVC is as above it all as many have thought over the years and I don't think it's as bad as some have come to believe the last 4 years or so.

but if the disney leaders that are behind the dvc scenes/curtains...
then why even consider any grandfather @ all? it does nothing
except to maintain the feelings of the resales group & worst
leaves direct owners feeling over looked. ans since the direct
buyers represent a small pool toward future/new direct
sales..then one would think they would be trying to increase
positive outcomes in that area ( like giving direct owners
good reasons to brag/influence their friends toward direct
sales).

IMO it's about the balance. There's a difference between screwing your base and making changes. Everyone that was buying and most that wanted to buy resale had the opportunity to buy and be counted as qualified. Those going forward will either know or should know (if not it's on them) what to expect. From what I've seen, this has been the industry standard to grandfather current owners and make changes going forward.

..dean, on the other thread...your response had me
wondering about having several deeds but in reality , be treated
the same as one-where you couldn't sale off one? why do
that in the first place if you couldn't do that--unless figuring
extra processing for the costs?

to be honest, I usually can't follow you and your thought processes for a single post, much less jumping from one thread to another. If you're talking about the person who had financed 3 contracts at once and had a loan, it has nothing to do with intent, only structure.

as for the vip program based, on number of points. from what
i am reading here, many invest on the resales to get those
high numbers....& dvc would hear from direct owners about
resales being rewarded with the vip program. i guess if it
only could obtain by direct sales then it would be ok. my
best guess, resales point would not be counted.

In all cases I know of, companies have grandfathered current members including resale OR given them a reasonable chance to convert over in a similar fashion. I'm sure they'd like to just change it retroactively but are fearful the backlash would be too great. Bluegreen just qualified everyone with a cutoff date affecting future purchases. Others can speak better to Fairfield/Wyndham but I know they did grandfather owners to a degree. Marriott simply created a new system and gave everyone the chance to participate though the prices were slightly different for retail vs resale purchases and also different based on the number of points that one converted.

 

[disneynutz]

i know your vry "frank", bill....& i think you are are also very accurate.

but if the disney leaders that are behind the dvc scenes/curtains...
then why even consider any grandfather @ all? it does nothing
except to maintain the feelings of the resales group & worst
leaves direct owners feeling over looked. ans since the direct
buyers represent a small pool toward future/new direct
sales..then one would think they would be trying to increase
positive outcomes in that area ( like giving direct owners
good reasons to brag/influence their friends toward direct
sales).

anyhoots...since we became owners, i have been learning as much as
i can. though many are expecting these resales to a limited range,
i am hoping they are conducting meetings as a group so they
can take in all the type of changes they could do...as to protect
their interests from both (resales/direct) group. maybe seek
out an imagineer to "explore" all the possibilities. and if they 're
reading here, why not use a lil'imagination?

and i ust add one more lil'suggestion.....if you are reading so
often...then dvc is aware that there are some pretty capable
timeshares experts-plus dvc owners, seek their input.

I have gone through the period where I have met with Disney managers and executives trying to understand and "improve" the club and after a couple of years it hit me, it isn't a club, it's a business. I have also met some wonderful CM's who are very frustrated because they have to play a role knowing that making change or improvement is a uphill battle with different departments involved who have different interests or agendas.

Disney is in the process of hiring a new executive who will take on the club responsibilities leaving the DVD sales and overall management with Bilby. This could be a good thing or another level of management to deal with.

DVD/DVC is between a rock and a hard place, they want to have a positive DVC image but they are forced to implement programs to reach their sales goals which were raised by the sales record and programs put in place by the former President. Direct sales to new owners generates the most profit, next, add-ons to new resorts, then add-ons to existing resorts.

As time goes on Disney will take on some of the programs standard in the industry to meet their goals, they already offer fixed weeks at Aulani, only Disney knows what's next.

Bill

 

[rock_doctor]

For some reason i don't really care about this... Imho, they take this too far and it will hurt them. One of the main selling points of DVC is the ability to sell out and recoup some of the money you had spent. The more they devalue resale points the greater the hit you will take if you need to get out. It is a fine balance, they have to increase fake value (what they will give your when you use them) and decrease real value (what you could sell them for). We will only ever use our points for our home resort but if they try to reduce their value during resale then imho they will have a very serious issue. As resale value is based on what people want to pay and should have nothing to do with disney. It will be interesting to see how it goes. The funny part...every time they try to pull this i have a much greater desire to buy resale and a much greater level of detest for buying direct...

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

One of the main selling points of DVC is the ability to sell out and recoup some of the money you had spent.

I'd speculate that this is a consideration for only a very small percentage of buyers. The many, many people Disney entices through their on-site marketing that takes advantage of catching people in the nirvana of being mid-vacation probably don't even know about a secondary market. I'm also betting that the vast majority of buyers have no consideration at all for what would happen if they no longer wanted their membership. Everyone buys in thinking they'll be coming to Disney World forever.

 

[Dean]

I'd speculate that this is a consideration for only a very small percentage of buyers. The many, many people Disney entices through their on-site marketing that takes advantage of catching people in the nirvana of being mid-vacation probably don't even know about a secondary market. I'm also betting that the vast majority of buyers have no consideration at all for what would happen if they no longer wanted their membership. Everyone buys in thinking they'll be coming to Disney World forever.

i would go a step further and suggest that only a small % of those who says it's a big deal would have let this issue prevent or alter them buying in. Most likely wouldn't even have considered it. I think the same could be said for most any issue that comes up as a hot ticket item. Put another way, you'd have to get likely more than 100 people that post it would have been an issue before you actually get one it would have affected their choices in any way. I'd say for retail buyers it's even FAR less.

 

[Kidanifan08]

I'd speculate that this is a consideration for only a very small percentage of buyers. The many, many people Disney entices through their on-site marketing that takes advantage of catching people in the nirvana of being mid-vacation probably don't even know about a secondary market. I'm also betting that the vast majority of buyers have no consideration at all for what would happen if they no longer wanted their membership. Everyone buys in thinking they'll be coming to Disney World forever.

i would go a step further and suggest that only a small % of those who says it's a big deal would have let this issue prevent or alter them buying in. Most likely wouldn't even have considered it. I think the same could be said for most any issue that comes up as a hot ticket item. Put another way, you'd have to get likely more than 100 people that post it would have been an issue before you actually get one it would have affected their choices in any way. I'd say for retail buyers it's even FAR less.

These are interesting observations. We referred close family friends to DVC and they bought BLT direct. After learning about breaking the contract into multiple small contracts from these boards, I suggested that my friend consider doing that with his 300 point contract (this was before Disney was charging closing costs). He is a CPA, and his response was, "if I was thinking about selling the contract, I probably shouldn't be buying it in the first place.". They also had dreams about using their contract for ABD...good luck doing that with 300 points and a family of four!

 

[Dean]

These are interesting observations. We referred close family friends to DVC and they bought BLT direct. After learning about breaking the contract into multiple small contracts from these boards, I suggested that my friend consider doing that with his 300 point contract (this was before Disney was charging closing costs). He is a CPA, and his response was, "if I was thinking about selling the contract, I probably shouldn't be buying it in the first place.". They also had dreams about using their contract for ABD...good luck doing that with 300 points and a family of four!

It seems your friend understood some of these aspects better than most members even though it would have been a good idea since no additional costs were involved. I'd say 99.9% of the time when someone posts they would have never bought DVC if a certain situation had existed, they're only kidding themselves.