If I buy DVC direct and get 2009 points, when do they expire?

[Antonia]

I spoke with a guide at DVC who said I would get 2009 points if I purchase. When would these points expire??? I would not want to waste them and I don't have a WDW trip in mind just yet.

If they expire before I am ready to do WDW, I guess I could always do Hilton Head. We are South Carolinians.

 

[JimMIA]

The expiration depends on your Use Year.

If you purchase within the 2009 UY, you get 2009 points. The guide is not giving you anything -- you are buying those points. They're just trying to make you think you're getting a "deal."

However, purchasing directly from DVC, if your points are past the banking deadline (last 4 months of the UY), they will waive the banking deadline and let you bank them into the next UY.

For example, if you bought points with an October UY, they would be scheduled to expire on Sept 30, 2010. The banking extension would allow you to bank them into the October 2010 UY, and you could use them until Sept 30, 2011.

The banking deadline extension is a legitimate benefit; presenting the 2009 points as if they're a bonus is timeshare salesperson doubletalk.

You should also be aware that there is a large and very active resale market for DVC points that will allow you to save a lot of money. The Timeshare Store, the sponsor of the DVC boards, has a link at the top right of this page that will take you to hundreds of listings.

 

[DenLo]

It would depend on your UY. Your points expire the last day of your UY, however you can bank them into the next year. If you have an August UY by banking your 2009 points into 2010 you extend their life until July 31, 2011.

Check out this thread. It has a lot great information about Use Year and banking points. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1942668

 

[DenLo]

I spoke with a guide at DVC who said I would get 2009 points if I purchase.

The expiration depends on your Use Year.

If you purchase within the 2009 UY, you get 2009 points. The guide is not giving you anything -- you are buying those points. They're just trying to make you think you're getting a "deal."

The OP did not mention anything about Disney giving them points, just that by buying now they get the 2009 points. It's true that Disney does not give you points that you purchase. But receiving 2009 points late in the UY is a deal because you only pay annual dues beginning with the month you purchase. So you get all of your 2009 points but if you buy August points in July you pay MFs (annual dues) only for July. That's a good deal and a fully loaded contract.

 

[dudelydude]

The guide is not giving you anything -- you are buying those points. They're just trying to make you think you're getting a "deal."

Yeah, I don't get this either. So giving the previous year's point isn't a perk? I thought there was a time when you purchased points from Disney that you just got the point in the current use year and they didn't give you previous year's points.

 

[JimMIA]

The OP did not mention anything about Disney giving them points, just that by buying now they get the 2009 points. It's true that Disney does not give you points that you purchase. But receiving 2009 points late in the UY is a deal because you only pay annual dues beginning with the month you purchase. So you get all of your 2009 points but if you buy August points in July you pay MFs (annual dues) only for July. That's a good deal and a fully loaded contract.

That's not a deal either. Dues have nothing to do with Use Year or points.

Dues cover the expenses of running the resort (maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc) for the calendar year (1/1-12/31). The confusion on this question probably comes from the resale market where dues are often tied to points available for the UY as a negotiating ploy, but they really have nothing to do with the points for any given period.

The statement that OP would only pay one month's worth of dues is also incorrect.

OP would be paying dues from their closing until 12/31/2010 -- a period during which it is very unlikely they would be able to get a reservation, even if they wanted. So for the rest of this dues period, OP would be paying 5 months dues or maybe slightly more.

That's a great deal -- but for DVC, not the prospective owner! The new owner is paying dues for a period during which they have very limited ability to use their points.

The only real deal with buying 2009 points is the banking extension. That's a nice benefit, but a prospective buyer has to weigh that against the cost savings of buying resale to see which is better for their family.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah, I don't get this either. So giving the previous year's point isn't a perk? I thought there was a time when you purchased points from Disney that you just got the point in the current use year and they didn't give you previous year's points.

That is the point. Those that are being given 2009 UY points are getting them because they are the current UY points.

Right now, Aug, Sept, Oct, and Dec are still in their 2009 UY. Those that buy these contracts are simply getting current UY points when they purchase.

Once we hit August 1st, guides will push people to get a Sept, Oct, or Dec UY so they can say "You will be getting 2009 points as well.". Since we are 1/2 way through 2010, many think these are bonus points.

A friend of mine bought in February and was offered 2009 points because he was offered a March UY. His family always travel in February and I explained to him that a March UY for Feb travel (he and his wife teach and go during our February break) was risky.

I told him he would be better off getting a Dec UY but I don't know if he went through the trouble to have the contracts re-done because he really thought he was getting "double" points.

 

[JimMIA]

Yeah, I don't get this either. So giving the previous year's point isn't a perk? I thought there was a time when you purchased points from Disney that you just got the point in the current use year and they didn't give you previous year's points.

They're NOT previous year points -- they're current year points.

Two examples:

1. I have an October UY, and this is July. Calendar year, we are in 2010. But as far as my points are concerned, I am still in my 2009 UY until October 1, 2010.

Likewise, a prospective owner purchasing points with a UY of August, September, October, or December would also be buying during those points' 2009 UY. And therefore, they would get the points they are entitled to -- the 2009 current year points.

2. If the buyer is buying points with a UY between January and June, those points are already in their 2010 UY. The 2009 points have expired, and the 2010 points are already issued. They would also get the points to which they are entitled -- the 2010 points.

 

[JimMIA]

I've said often in other threads that DVC timeshare salespeople do not usually tell outright lies, and I believe that.

But any good salesperson is going to present their product in the best possible light, make you think you're getting a "deal," and minimize any objections you have. That's just salesmanship.

DVC guides depend heavily on presenting their very good product in the most expansive, glowing terms and hoping the consumer either doesn't know the difference between sales pitch and reality, or that the consumer will just "trust Disney."

Unfortunately, too many people fall for that and buy timeshares they don't begin to understand. The only thing that saves those folks is that DVC is a very good product.

The sensible consumer has to sift through all that noise and figure out the truth -- and the only way to do that with DVC is to really understand what the terminology means and how the accounts and points work. There are no shortcuts -- except if you get blinded by pixie dust instead of looking out for your family's financial interest.

I am NOT saying don't buy direct from DVC. I've bought direct from DVC, and it's the best place to buy in certain circumstances.

What I am saying is investigate all the options, and fully understand what you are buying (or not) before you make a decision.

 

[dudelydude]

That is the point. Those that are being given 2009 UY points are getting them because they are the current UY points. Right now, Aug, Sept, Oct, and Dec are still in their 2009 UY. Those that buy these contracts are simply getting current UY points when they purchase.

Well this is very disappointing and a very common misconception among people on this board, because this is where I read it. I know, they wrote it, but I believed it.

I feel stupid, because I told someone at some point that with banking and borrowing, they could have 150 points to use right now on a 50 point contract.....ARgh! I gotta go back and find that person.

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[JimMIA]

Well this is very disappointing and a very common misconception among people on this board, because this is where I read it. I know, they wrote it, but I believed it.

I feel stupid, because I told someone at some point that with banking and borrowing, they could have 150 points to use right now on a 50 point contract.....ARgh! I gotta go back and find that person.

Thanks for setting me straight.

You probably told them right.

If a person buys a contract for 50 2009 points and then banks those points into 2010, they would have 150 points available for their 2010 UY. They'd have their regular 2010 points (50), the points they banked from '09 into '10 (50), and they could borrow their 50 2011 points for a ressie during their 2010 UY.

ETA: The only situation where you might have given them erroneous info is if they were buying now and planning to take a trip prior to the end of their 2009 UY. In that scenario, they'd have only 100 available -- 50 current points + 50 borrowed from 2010.

 

[LisaS]

The OP did not mention anything about Disney giving them points, just that by buying now they get the 2009 points. It's true that Disney does not give you points that you purchase. But receiving 2009 points late in the UY is a deal because you only pay annual dues beginning with the month you purchase. So you get all of your 2009 points but if you buy August points in July you pay MFs (annual dues) only for July. That's a good deal and a fully loaded contract.

I agree. The perk here is getting a full set of points for 2009 and paying pro-rated dues on those 2009 points, perhaps as little as a couple of weeks' worth for those who purchase an Aug UY prior to Aug 1st. Certainly a better deal than buying an Aug UY contract just a few weeks later (on/after Aug 1st) and missing out on those 2009 UY points. As JimMIA points out they will pay dues for the remaining months of 2010 as well but technically those dues are associated with the 2010 points.

I don't like the DVC sales pitch suggesting the 2009 UY points are special bonus points, however purchasing late in your UY does offer a little cost savings on dues that first year. Unfortunately there is also a risk that by waiting until very late in one's UY that DVC will run out of current UY points. It has happened to a couple of people who tried to add on two weeks before the end of their UY but ended up missing out on the current UY points altogether because DVC was out of current UY points for the resort they wanted to purchase.

 

[delmar411]

I agree. The perk here is getting a full set of points for 2009 and paying pro-rated dues on those 2009 points, perhaps as little as a couple of weeks' worth for those who purchase an Aug UY prior to Aug 1st. Certainly a better deal than buying an Aug UY contract just a few weeks later (on/after Aug 1st) and missing out on those 2009 UY points. As JimMIA points out they will pay dues for the remaining months of 2010 as well but technically those dues are associated with the 2010 points.

I don't like the DVC sales pitch suggesting the 2009 UY points are special bonus points, however purchasing late in your UY does offer a little cost savings on dues that first year. Unfortunately there is also a risk that by waiting until very late in one's UY that DVC will run out of current UY points. It has happened to a couple of people who tried to add on two weeks before the end of their UY but ended up missing out on the current UY points altogether because DVC was out of current UY points for the resort they wanted to purchase.

This is incorrect. You pay NO DUES on 2009 points because this is the year 2010. Dues don't belong to Use Years, they belong to Calendar Years.

 

[JimMIA]

This is incorrect. You pay NO DUES on 2009 points because this is the year 2010. Dues don't belong to Use Years, they belong to Calendar Years.

You're right, and you don't pay any dues for 2010 points either, because as explained in my Post #6 above...dues have nothing to do with points.

It's confusing, but necessary to understand -- especially if you are a prospective buyer in the sights of a timeshare salesperson!

______
ETA: Resale is different. In resale, dues are commonly associated with points as a bargaining ploy.

But not in buying direct. Buying direct, you pay the pro-rated dues from your closing date until the end of the calendar year. Important to know, because the timeshare sharks will try to use this confusion against you to tell you you're getting something for nothing. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[LisaS]

This is incorrect. You pay NO DUES on 2009 points because this is the year 2010. Dues don't belong to Use Years, they belong to Calendar Years.

Use Years overlap with calendar years. You pay dues on a calendar year basis but those dues are associated with part of the point allotments from two Use Years.

For dues purposes, Disney treats each point allocation as if it is spread out evenly over the entire Use Year. With an Aug UY, the first 7 months of the calendar year fall within one UY and the final 5 months of the calendar year fall within the next UY. The dues that were paid in 2009 are associated with the final 7 months of 2008 UY points and the initial 5 months of 2009 UY points, all paid at the 2009 calendar year dues rate. The dues being paid in 2010 are associated with the final 7 months of the 2009 UY and the first 5 months of the 2010 UY, paid at 2010 calendar year rates.

This is easiest to understand if you look at what happens when a resort opens. I purchased AKV in Feb 2007, my occupancy date was Sep 1, 2007 but my initial UY was Oct 2007. I paid dues starting on Oct 1, 2007 so I paid 3 months of dues for calendar year 2007. Someone purchasing a Dec UY paid only 1 month of dues for calendar year 2007 since their dues started on Dec 1, 2007 yet they also got a full set of 2007 points. So did Disney just decide to give those with later UYs a better deal? No, it's because I pay for the rest of those 2007 UY points with some of my 2008 calendar year dues and so does the person with a Dec UY. In my case, 9/12ths of my 2008 dues are associated with the allocation of 2007 UY points that fell within the 2008 calendar year (Jan - Sep). In the case of the person with a Dec UY, 11/12ths of the 2008 dues are associated with the allocation of 2007 UY points that fell within the 2008 calendar year (Jan - Nov). So we each paid full dues on our initial set of points. Since dues tend to go up every year, the person with the Dec UY actually paid a little more dues on those 2007 UY points than I did but that's just how things work.

So when someone is adding on today with an Aug UY and they get 2009 UY points, they pay about 15 days worth of dues on those 2009 UY points (Jul 16 - Jul 31). Dues from Aug 1st on are associated with 2010 UY points. If they purchase today and Disney is out of 2009 UY points, their first allotment will be Aug 2010 UY points so their dues will begin on Aug 1st since that is point at which dues are owed on 2010 UY points.

 

[LisaS]

Buying direct, you pay the pro-rated dues from your closing date until the end of the calendar year. Important to know, because the timeshare sharks will try to use this confusion against you to tell you you're getting something for nothing. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

The dues are pro-rated from the later of the purchase date, the occupancy date of the Unit you purchased or the start of your initial Use Year. Dues are not billed until you close on the purchase. This leads to confusion at times because for those paying dues by direct debit, N months' worth of dues are deducted in N-2 billing periods leading some to ask here if they were being overcharged.

 

[wdwmike59]

I am NOT saying don't buy direct from DVC. I've bought direct from DVC, and it's the best place to buy in certain circumstances.

What I am saying is investigate all the options, and fully understand what you are buying (or not) before you make a decision.

So what would be the "certain circumstances" in which DVC would be the best place to buy?

 

[delmar411]

So when someone is adding on today with an Aug UY and they get 2009 UY points, they pay about 15 days worth of dues on those 2009 UY points (Jul 16 - Jul 31). Dues from Aug 1st on are associated with 2010 UY points. If they purchase today and Disney is out of 2009 UY points, their first allotment will be Aug 2010 UY points so their dues will begin on Aug 1st since that is point at which dues are owed on 2010 UY points.

Now we are either saying the same thing in 2 completely different manners or we are not seeing eye to eye on what dues are/how they are calc'd.

I personally added on points just last month and received 2009 points since my UY is Oct. I close sometime this month and my first dues payment is due in Aug. For ONLY 2010 dues. They cannot retro-bill me for monies that were already paid out by DVC or some other owner. No double dipping allowed.

And I paid dues for AKV Kidani from the day they opened (May?June?) through the end of the year even though I have an Oct UY. Dues have nothing to do with points other than calculating the amount owed.

I'd double check that you didn't also pay dues from the day AKV Jambo opened through the end of that year. The dues system simply doesn't work like you've described.

I hold 6 contracts at 3 resorts. I've never been billed in the manner you describe. I really think you are trying to find the connection between dues and UY's. There is none. Dues are based off the operating budget which runs on the calendar year and has no regard for the millions of contracts and their differing UY's. If you own a contract during 2010, you pay all or a portion of 2010 dues (which is calc'd off points owned), depending on when your ownership started. If you happen to get some 2009 UY points then they are due-free as the 2009 operating budget closed on 12/31/09. Those dues have already been paid in some manner.

Here is the AKV Kidani dues from 09. Keep in mind I have an Oct UY and they started billing dues for that resort in June. It's messy but I bolded the months that they were billing.


Monthly Direct Debit Date
Monthly Direct Debit Payment Amount
06.15.2009
$ 97.78
07.15.2009 - 11.15.2009
$ 97.78
12.15.2009
$ 97.75
Resort Year Item Vacation Points Rate Days Prorated Annual Dues Assessment Subtotal
Balance Forward $ 0.00
AKV2 2009 Capital Reserves Budget 210 1.0339 245 $ 145.74
AKV2 2009 Operating Expense 210 2.8288 245 $ 398.75
Subtotal - 2009 Operating and Capital Reserves $ 544.49
AKV2 2009 Estimated Property Tax 210 .9927 245 $ 139.94
Subtotal - 2009 Taxes $ 139.94
Total Annual Dues $ 684.43

 

[JimMIA]

So what would be the "certain circumstances" in which DVC would be the best place to buy?

I can think of a number of situations:

1. You want a certain resort and it's only being sold directly (Aulani, for example)
2. You want a specific Use Year at one of the "sold out" resorts and there are no contracts available with that UY in the resale market.
3. You want to buy a very small contract and you can't find what you want in the resale market.
4. Disney's price or promotion is TRULY better than what's available resale. This in probably not true today very often, but there have been times in the past where it occurred.
5. You MUST finance and DVC direct offers financing rates which make the overall cost of purchasing lower than buying resale and financing at higher rates. Usually that's not the case, but there are situations where it might be true.

I'm sure there are other situations -- this is not intended as a definitive list.

 

[LisaS]

Now we are either saying the same thing in 2 completely different manners or we are not seeing eye to eye on what dues are/how they are calc'd.

I personally added on points just last month and received 2009 points since my UY is Oct. I close sometime this month and my first dues payment is due in Aug. For ONLY 2010 dues. They cannot retro-bill me for monies that were already paid out by DVC or some other owner. No double dipping allowed.

If you added on last month and got 2009 points you will owe pro-rated dues calculated from your purchase date. Billing begins after you close on your purchase. The part of the pro-rated dues that you pay from your purchase date until Oct 1, 2010 is for the 2009 points you received. If you had not received any 2009 points you would owe pro-rated 2010 dues calculated from Oct 1, 2010 since Disney charges dues based on when you get your first set of points. So your 2009 points were not free but you will pay far less than full dues on them. If Disney gave current year points for free, dues would begin at the start of the next UY but that is not the case.

And I paid dues for AKV Kidani from the day they opened (May?June?) through the end of the year even though I have an Oct UY. Dues have nothing to do with points other than calculating the amount owed.

You pay dues from the day you get your first points. If you purchased AKV when it first opened and your Unit's occupancy date was May 1, 2009 and your initial Use Year was Oct 2009, your first calendar year's dues would have begun Oct 1, 2009. If your initial UY was Oct 2008, then your first year's dues would be calculated from the later of your occupancy date and purchase date.

I'd double check that you didn't also pay dues from the day AKV Jambo opened through the end of that year. The dues system simply doesn't work like you've described.

I paid exactly 92 days worth of 2007 dues on my AKV/Jambo contract. Believe me, I verified that at the time! My pro-rated dues began on Oct 1, 2007 because I did not receive any points prior to that date even though I purchased in Feb and my occupancy date was Sep 1, 2007.

I hold 6 contracts at 3 resorts. I've never been billed in the manner you describe. I really think you are trying to find the connection between dues and UY's. There is none. Dues are based off the operating budget which runs on the calendar year and has no regard for the millions of contracts and their differing UY's. If you own a contract during 2010, you pay all or a portion of 2010 dues (which is calc'd off points owned), depending on when your ownership started. If you happen to get some 2009 UY points then they are due-free as the 2009 operating budget closed on 12/31/09. Those dues have already been paid in some manner.

The dues rate is based on the operating budget for the calendar year but the day you begin paying dues in the year you purchase is based on the day you receive your first points, not when your ownership started. I purchased AKV in Feb 2007, my Unit opened on Sep 1, 2007 but I paid no dues until Oct 1, 2007 because I received no points prior to that time.

Here is the AKV Kidani dues from 09. Keep in mind I have an Oct UY and they started billing dues for that resort in June. It's messy but I bolded the months that they were billing.


Monthly Direct Debit Date
Monthly Direct Debit Payment Amount
06.15.2009
$ 97.78
07.15.2009 - 11.15.2009
$ 97.78
12.15.2009
$ 97.75
Resort Year Item Vacation Points Rate Days Prorated Annual Dues Assessment Subtotal
Balance Forward $ 0.00
AKV2 2009 Capital Reserves Budget 210 1.0339 245 $ 145.74
AKV2 2009 Operating Expense 210 2.8288 245 $ 398.75
Subtotal - 2009 Operating and Capital Reserves $ 544.49
AKV2 2009 Estimated Property Tax 210 .9927 245 $ 139.94
Subtotal - 2009 Taxes $ 139.94
Total Annual Dues $ 684.43

Based on this I would assume your initial UY was Oct 2008. Dues begin on the later of your purchase date, the start of your initial UY and the occupancy date of the Unit you purchased. You had a May 1, 2009 occupancy date. If your initial UY was Oct 2008 then billing would begin on the later of the purchase date or occupancy date. If you didn't get any points until Oct 1, 2009 then dues should not have been billed until that time. I would be very surprised if Disney got this wrong so I am going to guess that your initial UY was Oct 2008 not Oct 2009.