If global warming could be stopped and earth saved by ending the use of all forms of electricity, would you do it?

[Lehuaann]

Someone bought an electric car. He plugged it in, then wondered where the wires lead to. He started to following the wires. OMG! it lead to a coal fired power plant!

Yep, but it sure looks sexy

 

[bsmcneil]

Also, the show r(E)volution was an interesting concept!

 

[Buzz Rules]

Also, the show r(E)volution was an interesting concept!

It’s part of the reason I thought of the thread.

 

[rajak73]

https://nypost.com/2021/11/12/50-years-of-predictions-that-the-climate-apocalypse-is-nigh/amp/

I remember all these dire predictions from 1970s that never have come true.

Anyone remember I think the 70's when they talked about dumping black ash on the ice caps to stop another Ice age?

 

[ronandannette]

Not my intention.

Don’t get me wrong; I love threads that evoke thoughtful discussions and I’m not one who thinks differences-of-opinions are automatically grounds for conflict or offence. All I’m saying is own it - if all you want is a yes or no answer, post a poll and say “no explanation needed”.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Someone bought an electric car. He plugged it in, then wondered where the wires lead to. He started to following the wires. OMG! it lead to a coal fired power plant!

I mean, this is a tired old trope at this point isn't it? I hear it on talk radio a lot though, so it gets repeated endlessly. There's a one in five chance that someone's EV is powered by a coal fired plant in the U.S. 20% of our electricity generation comes from coal fired plants, 20% from nuclear, 20% from renewables and 40% from natural gas. I have an EV...and factoring in the increase in my power bill (my power plant is fueled by nat gas).....I'm saving roughly $350 a month on gas. So...good for my wallet, good for the planet.....and super convenient with my home charger. Couldn't be happier with the EV....never going back to an ICE car.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Yep, but it sure looks sexy

If sexy means convenient and economical....then yes, it's super sexy. . I get it...EVs won't work for people in every situation, and I'm new to the game...we've had ours for a little under two years, but I won't go back now....no way. Cheaper, easier, no maintenance....and yes, better for the planet. It's kind of a win-win-win-win.

 

[ronandannette]

I mean, this is a tired old trope at this point isn't it? I hear it on talk radio a lot though, so it gets repeated endlessly. There's a one in five chance that someone's EV is powered by a coal fired plant in the U.S. 20% of our electricity generation comes from coal fired plants, 20% from nuclear, 20% from renewables and 40% from natural gas. I have an EV...and factoring in the increase in my power bill (my power plant is fueled by nat gas).....I'm saving roughly $350 a month on gas. So...good for my wallet, good for the planet.....and super convenient with my home charger. Couldn't be happier with the EV....never going back to an ICE car.

Not necessarily. Lots of areas in Canada, for instance, have their electricity generated by hydro. It intuitively seems greener than fossil fuel. BUT the substantial areas of the country without appropriate access to water sources still burn coal, as do many, many places in the world. It simply isn’t a given that an EV is the better environmental choice in every circumstance.

 

[DVC92]

The climate has always changed. Over the history of the planet, there have been periods of warming and cooling. We are not going to change it. Species go extinct and then others return. If not, there would be real dinosaurs in the ride at AK.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Not necessarily. Lots of areas in Canada, for instance, have their electricity generated by hydro. It intuitively seems greener than fossil fuel. BUT the substantial areas of the country without appropriate access to water sources still burn coal, as do many, many places in the world. It simply isn’t a given that an EV is the better environmental choice in every circumstance.

I understand that if an EV is powered by a coal fired plant that there's no net gain, although you would be emitting less pollution in your immediate area. I was referring to the United States in the breakdown that I gave. I didn't know the breakdown for Canada, but just a quick google search reveals that Canada is in far better shape the U.S. A whopping 60% of your power comes from hydro, 16% from nuclear, 9% from natural gas, 8% from coal, 6% from other renewables...and 1% from petroleum.

And listen, I get it....China emits twice what the U.S does, they're building coal fired plants like crazy....etc, etc, but what should we do? Nothing? I guess this "all or nothing" mentality that I see sometimes frustrates me. And I'm not saying that is you at all. There have been lots of EV threads, and many posters will say that it doesn't work for them....and that's fine, there will be ICE cars for a long, long time....far beyond my lifetime. Yes, we obviously still need petroleum products....I just don't see the point in doing nothing if it works personally for an individual. Or mocking (not saying you), someone for getting an EV. I think that's juvenile and silly when in the U.S (and now I've learned Canada), less than 20% of our power generation comes from coal. And so in over 80% of the cases in our two countries, buying an EV is better for the environment.

 

[WhatDinosaur]

Someone bought an electric car. He plugged it in, then wondered where the wires lead to. He started to following the wires. OMG! it lead to a coal fired power plant!

Do you not understand how much easier it is to capture emissions from one central point (a power plant) instead of tens of thousands of cars?

 

[kdonnel]

Do you not understand how much easier it is to capture emissions from one central point (a power plant) instead of tens of thousands of cars?

This point escapes so many.

I own two EV. I didn't buy either one because of the environment. I bought them for selfish reasons.

The first so I could ride for free in the I-85 HOT lanes in Metro Atlanta.

The second because I wanted a cool car.

If I really cared about my environmental impact I would replace my gas powered lawn mower with an electric one. That is probably the simplest change people can make that has the largest positive environmental impact.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces the same amount of volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour.

The EPA also estimates that 17 million gallons of fuel is spilled every year refilling lawn mowers. That is more than the Exxon Valdez spill year after year after year after year.

Those small engines are horrible for the environment.

 

[MillauFr]

.never going back to an ICE car.

Well after 2030 you won't have much choice since you won't be able to buy a gas powered car any longer.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

I mean, this is a tired old trope at this point isn't it? I hear it on talk radio a lot though, so it gets repeated endlessly. There's a one in five chance that someone's EV is powered by a coal fired plant in the U.S. 20% of our electricity generation comes from coal fired plants, 20% from nuclear, 20% from renewables and 40% from natural gas. I have an EV...and factoring in the increase in my power bill (my power plant is fueled by nat gas).....I'm saving roughly $350 a month on gas. So...good for my wallet, good for the planet.....and super convenient with my home charger. Couldn't be happier with the EV....never going back to an ICE car.

Curious to know what is the monthly increase to your power bill? $350 savings per month is a substantial amount of money, is that for one car? How far do you drive on the average month?

If sexy means convenient and economical....then yes, it's super sexy. . I get it...EVs won't work for people in every situation, and I'm new to the game...we've had ours for a little under two years, but I won't go back now....no way. Cheaper, easier, no maintenance....and yes, better for the planet. It's kind of a win-win-win-win.

What about the landfills or junk yards that will receive these EVs after they have reached their life expectancy of ruffly 10 yrs? My understanding is that the cost to replace the battery in EVs is so high that people just purchase a new vehicle and dispose of their old vehicle and the batteries have a tendency to catch fire (that doesn't seem too good for the environment to me). Please correct me if I'm wrong on this as I'm still learning and trying very hard to make the correct choice for my next vehicle.

The climate has always changed. Over the history of the planet, there have been periods of warming and cooling. We are not going to change it. Species go extinct and then others return. If not, there would be real dinosaurs in the ride at AK.

I agree with you to an extent, but I do believe human behavior can and does contribute to the health of our environment. I think we should all be doing what we can to keep our environment healthy. I'm thinking that my next vehicle will be a hybrid, the best of both worlds? We take an annual long distance driving trip so at this point I don't see an EV being the correct choice for us. Now if they could figure out a way to get those EVs to go a greater distance (maybe self-charging), install many-many more charging stations and figure out how to charge the cars faster than I would consider an EV but at this point time I don't believe the US is ready for an all EV nation. Also, the US can't do it all, we need the rest of the world to get on board.

If I really cared about my environmental impact I would replace my gas powered lawn mower with an electric one. That is probably the simplest change people can make that has the largest positive environmental impact.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces the same amount of volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour.

The EPA also estimates that 17 million gallons of fuel is spilled every year refilling lawn mowers. That is more than the Exxon Valdez spill year after year after year after year.

Those small engines are horrible for the environment.

This is something I will look into; I just did a quick google search for electric lawn tractors and they aren't nearly as cost prohibitive as buying an EV. Now the question becomes how readily available they are. I'm going to suggest this to DH, he probably won't like the idea because he doesn't like spending money he doesn't have to and our current tractor is fairly new, so we don't need a replacement at this time. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[MillauFr]

This point escapes so many.

I own two EV. I didn't buy either one because of the environment. I bought them for selfish reasons.

The first so I could ride for free in the I-85 HOT lanes in Metro Atlanta.

The second because I wanted a cool car.

If I really cared about my environmental impact I would replace my gas powered lawn mower with an electric one. That is probably the simplest change people can make that has the largest positive environmental impact.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces the same amount of volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour.

The EPA also estimates that 17 million gallons of fuel is spilled every year refilling lawn mowers. That is more than the Exxon Valdez spill year after year after year after year.

Those small engines are horrible for the environment.

You are correct the large lawns are a real waste. Won't be too long before the HOAs start banning grass lawns because they will bring down property values. Younger buyer will increasingly search out homes in areas with the least amount of environmental footprint. It will be a real selling point for new developments.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

Well after 2030 you won't have much choice since you won't be able to buy a gas powered car any longer.

Where exactly are you talking about? I have heard about the change in CA but the ban on the sale of ICE vehicles doesn't go into full effect until 2036 I believe. They sure better get hot on fixing all the current issues with EVs (they don't go far enough before needing a charge, not enough charging stations and it takes too long to charge them). I'm sure there will be a lot of arguments before this will happen.

 

[MillauFr]

Where exactly are you talking about? I have heard about the change in CA but the ban on the sale of ICE vehicles doesn't go into full effect until 2036 I believe. They sure better get hot on fixing all the current issues with EVs (they don't go far enough before needing a charge, not enough charging stations and it takes too long to charge them). I'm sure there will be a lot of arguments before this will happen.

Most of the car manufacturers have announced plans to end production of gas powered cars by 2030. Washington State just announced that dealers will no longer be able to sell gas powered cars by 2035, although they are expect to end sales far before then. EVs are upto 12% of new vehicle registrations and doubling every couple of years. Gas stations in Seattle are already starting to close. Although that has more to do with developers coming in an offering them $40m an acre for their property. There is no way that making a $1 gallon profit off of gas is going to pencil out for them so they sell.

 

[kdonnel]

Curious to know what is the monthly increase to your power bill? $350 savings per month is a substantial amount of money, is that for one car? How far do you drive on the average month?



What about the landfills or junk yards that will receive these EVs after they have reached their life expectancy of ruffly 10 yrs? My understanding is that the cost to replace the battery in EVs is so high that people just purchase a new vehicle and dispose of their old vehicle and the batteries have a tendency to catch fire (that doesn't seem too good for the environment to me). Please correct me if I'm wrong on this as I'm still learning and trying very hard to make the correct choice for my next vehicle.


I agree with you to an extent, but I do believe human behavior can and does contribute to the health of our environment. I think we should all be doing what we can to keep our environment healthy. I'm thinking that my next vehicle will be a hybrid, the best of both worlds? We take an annual long distance driving trip so at this point I don't see an EV being the correct choice for us. Now if they could figure out a way to get those EVs to go a greater distance (maybe self-charging), install many-many more charging stations and figure out how to charge the cars faster than I would consider an EV but at this point time I don't believe the US is ready for an all EV nation. Also, the US can't do it all, we need the rest of the world to get on board.



This is something I will look into; I just did a quick google search for electric lawn tractors and they aren't nearly as cost prohibitive as buying an EV. Now the question becomes how readily available they are. I'm going to suggest this to DH, he probably won't like the idea because he doesn't like spending money he doesn't have to and our current tractor is fairly new, so we don't need a replacement at this time. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Cost to charge:
Thus far in August $32 for 1000 miles, July was $58 for 1600 miles, June was $69 for 1900 miles. A total over the last three months of 4500 miles for $159. Those same 4500 miles at 25 MPG would need 180 gallons. 180 x $3.50 = $630 for gas. In reality the gas costs would have been more since gas has was much more expensive than $3.50 in June and July. So lets say $159 electric vs $700 gas. A savings of about $180-$200 a month. Plus the maintenance cost savings. The maintenance is effectively tire rotations and cabin air filters for the first 100,000 to 200,000 miles. Much less than the maintenance for an ICE car.

Battery degradation:
EVs do not have such a short expected EOL. Auto makers warranty the battery for 8 years 100,000 miles. Car batteries degrade much more slowly than people think. Real world usage has shown about 10% degradation over the first 100,000 miles on average. The initial burst of degradation is most dramatic and then slow and linear after that. So at 200,000 miles it should at around 18% or so. Still plenty of life. Using my Mach e as an example it would take me about 13 years to reach 200000 miles and I would have about 257 miles of range on a full charge at that point.

End of EV life:
As more and more EVs do approach their end of life, businesses will crop up to tackle recycling. As with any new opportunity to make money, people will step up to make the money.

Battery fires:
A recent study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.

The fires when they do occur can be more problematic as they are difficult to extinguish but they occur 60x less often than ICE cars.

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

To answer OP’s original question, no I wouldn’t. I have a pretty pessimistic view of how that would go down.

I 100% stand behind responsible practices though. For example, I’ve seen seen several studies that say the most carbon friendly thing you can do car wise is just keep driving the car you have now, and drive it for a long time. New car production takes a long time to offset. The next car I get will most likely be a hybrid but that won’t be for a few more years.

Same goes for furniture, clothes, technology, etc. Buy quality and buy it less often. It’s the way my depression era grandparents lived. I’m still using their dining room table because it was so well made.

 

[jo-jo]

. I didn't know the breakdown for Canada, but just a quick google search reveals that Canada is in far better shape the U.S. A whopping 60% of your power comes from hydro, 16% from nuclear, 9% from natural gas, 8% from coal, 6% from other renewables...and 1% from petroleum.

I don't want to dig too much, but Canada has a lot smaller population than the US. I would think you need to have the population somewhat close to water source for hydro power to work out???? I'm really surprised at those numbers.


About the only thing I know about Canada is you go north to get there.

I had a crazy idea....along highways, they should install little turbines (2 ft high) connected to produce electricity. You know the movement of all those cars produce a lot of wind.