IBBCES - I wish Disney is a participating park

[NightGuardianAngel]

I sure wish you can just go through this process and show the IBBCES accessibility card to a cast member to get a DAS pass or any other accommodations. It would definitely be much easier based on my experience than a chat and, in my opinion, will very likely curtail abuse. Some other theme parks participate in this.

https://accessibilitycard.org/

 

[gap2368]

Disney dose not do docoments of any kind for there disability pass.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I think it would most likely lead to more abuse.

 

[SueM in MN]

I don’t see how that would really be helpful for requesting DAS. First of all, Disney parks are much bigger attendance than those parks that do participate, so the numbers of people applying would be smaller at those parks. Most of the participating parks are 6 Flags parks, so it probably is a way for them to centralize their process.

Most of the things that are on their list of examples of needs or accommodations include things that would not qualify for DAS. If Disney went with this system, people who wouldn’t normally get DAS would be eligible, leading to more abuse in my opinion.
I think it would lead to a lot of ‘I’ve got this card, you need to let me xxxxxx.’

Copied from the IBCCES website.
Examples of Needs or Accommodations Requests

• Cannot stand in line for a long period of time
• Requires ride harness or other supports
• Sensory sensitivities
• Wheelchair access
• Physical or mobility restrictions
• Require visual assistance or guidance
• Special dietary needs

Many of them don’t require any documentation - for example, wheelchair access or special dietary needs. If Disney went with this system, it would lead to confusion among CMs and guests being denied access if they don’t have the card.
That DID happen with the previous Disney Guest Assistance Card (GAC) which had specific items that could be checked. One stamp said « may use wheelchair entrance« and was meant for situations where someone without a wheelchair needed to avoid stairs. But, some CMs were expecting/demanding a GAC with that stamp for people with wheelchairs. That did happen to us long ago - we had a GAC card and a wheelchair, but the wheelchair line wasn’t checked (since it was not meant for guests with a visible need to avoid stairs). The CM at Splash Mountain would not let us use the stair bypass without the stamp. She said if we wanted to ride, we would need to use the stairs. I explained my daughter was not able to walk and was too big and heavy to carry. She still insisted and said she ’couldn’t let us cut the line’ . I replied we HAD waited in line up to the point of the stairs and could go no further without going thru the bypass gate marked with a wheelchair symbol. She still insisted, so I asked for a supervisor who told the CM she needed to let guests using wheelchairs use the bypass whether or not they had DAS or had that stamp. She did let us through, but was still arguing with the supervisor as we left.
That violates the ADA.

Also, I’m not sure how this complies with the ADA, which says proof can’t be required for accommodation. And, their proof is problematic for reasons other than ADA . This is the list of examples of required proofs from the website:

• Contact information and statement from medical provider, government entity, or educational support professional related to accommodations requested

‘Government entity’ could be pretty much anything - handicapped parking permit, something from Social Security saying the person is disabled, something from a teacher or other professional that says the person is disabled. Their ‘related to accommodations requested’ is kind of nebulous; just because someone can produce a handicapped parking permit or an IEP doesn’t necessary mean they need DAS.
That’s one of the reasons (besides the ADA) that Disney doesn’t require proof. There are also doctors who will write a letter despite not knowing what DAS is or whether the patient even needs it. Before DAS, there were a lot of recommendations on line to get a doctor note to request GAC - the ‘suggested language’ was very general (‘accommodate my patient in any way possible’) or very specific (‘my patient needs immediate access to attractions’) and people without disabilities reported some overly helpful doctors offered letters for things like ‘anyone with 3 preschool age kids should not have to wait’. So again, IMHO, I think it could lead to more abuse.

How is it used at the participating parks - show it in Guest Relations and get something specific? Show the card at each attraction and the attendant decides what you get?
And, what about people who don’t have the card/haven‘t registered ahead of time? Do they not get accommodation?

 

[OurBigTrip]

And, what about people who don’t have the card/haven‘t registered ahead of time? Do they not get accommodation?

Based on Six Flags' website, no accommodation without registration.

 

[AnneK]

I have used this card at Six Flags for the last two years. In my experience I like it a lot and it is way better than the DAS system. Depending on your needs, you either get a wait time inbetween rides equal to the average wait time for all rides (so it's usually either 30 or 45 minutes), or like in my case, no wait at all. I did provide a doctor's note and all information for my clinic, etc. to qualify. My issue is non-mobility.

At Six Flags is has cut down on abuse by A LOT. Before, teenagers would come in mass groups, rent a wheelchair and ask for a pass to skip all of the lines, or make up a fake diagnosis like Autism. It was a real problem that was causing a lot of issues and backing up of the ADA line.

Since the card has now been around for a few years, if you show up without having pre-registered there is nothing the park will do for you on that day. They will give you the information on where to sign up for the card instead. All of this information is available on their website before you visit.

 

[lanejudy]

Depending on your needs, you either get...

So I'm curious... who makes this determination? The IBBCES when you apply for the card and the card has detailed information about your needs? Or does the individual still have to speak to the park about their needs?

From wording on the website, it seems the park determines whether accommodation is even given and what accommodation that may be. So someone who uses a wheelchair might have a card, but at WDW there is no further accommodation except at a few specific attractions that aren't mainstreamed - so no DAS and the individual feels they aren't being accommodated. Yet someone with an invisible need may get the card, but is still at the mercy of explaining their needs to a Disney CM to get DAS.

 

[AnneK]

The park has no word or say on what accommodations you receive. It is all determined by IBBCES. When I go to Six Flags I simply go to the Ride Services building, show them my card and they can pull up my account and give me the appropriate pass for the day.

 

[lanejudy]

The park has no word or say on what accommodations you receive. It is all determined by IBBCES.

Interesting. That doesn't jive with their website, I wonder if it varies by park.

• This document does NOT guarantee you any benefits or accommodations. All accommodations afforded to individuals with a need are at the sole discretion of the attraction
• Please present this document at the guest services desk upon arrival for details about what accommodations may be available

 

[SueM in MN]

The individual park website information are not even consistent with the IBBCES website.
The IBBCES website says they need “contact information and a statement from a medical provider, government entity, or educational support professional related to accommodations requested”p

The 6 Flags Great America website FAQs about accessibility says:
In order to obtain an Attractions Access Pass, guests must complete the one-time application at www.ibcces.org/ac/. The IBCCES requires doctor’s notes with more detailed information than the note previously supplied to Six Flags. Therefore, any prior doctor’s note would not be applicable to the new IBCCES program. Once you have obtained an IBCCES card, you can present that to each park that you visit to receive the Attractions Access Pass.

If I have a cast, brace on/in a wheelchair do I need doctor’s note since my disability is obviously visible ?​

Yes. To ensure fairness, the new policy applies equally to all guests with disabilities or other impairments, whether visible or not. All guests with a disability or other qualifying impairment that prevents them from standing in line for an extended period are required to present a valid doctor’s note in order to receive an Attractions Access Pass. This measure aims to reduce the past abuse of the accessibility system and is necessary considering our employees do not have the expertise to evaluate whether a handicap of any nature causes functional limitations.

Isn’t your new policy against HIPAA or ADA ?​

Our new policy is in full compliance with both HIPAA and the ADA. We will not require you to share the nature of your disability. We only require a signed doctor’s note indicating that your disability or other impairment prevents you from standing in a ride queue for extended periods of time.

I CAN see how it would NOT be against HIPAA, since HIPAA doesn’t apply to theme parks, just to medical providers (of many sorts, including clinics and hospitals, but also Pharmacies, providers of medical supplies, etc) and insurance companies.

I DON‘T see how it can comply with the ADA since guests apparently need it even to use a wheelchair in lines. It’s possible that no one has sued under the ADA for that reason; given the the majors of 6 Flags Parks’s attractions are thrill ride type, they may/probably have less disabled Guests than Disney parks.

 

[lanejudy]

I DON‘T see how it can comply with the ADA since guests apparently need it even to use a wheelchair in lines. It’s possible that no one has sued under the ADA for that reason; given the the majors of 6 Flags Parks’s attractions are thrill ride type, they may/probably have less disabled Guests than Disney parks.

I suspect it's considered "preferred" access. PP mentioned "no wait." It's possible something different (the "average wait" PP mentioed?) Is given to wheelchair users who don't pre-register, or maybe queues are mainstreamed. I admit it's been years (decades!) since I went to a Six Flags park, though we've been considering a visit to La Ronde or Great Escape so I'm curious how it works. I honestly don't see us making a doctors appointment just for a letter, especially if I'm not sure how it works, so we may not go anyway.

 

[Lilsia]

I don't think that it is a good idea for some random third party company to be telling another company what accommodations they should give. How do they know how things work at all of these other places? This isn't even a government program, just a company who is claiming they are "helping" others. They very well could be helpful, but seriously, who are they to diagnose and say what someone needs and how they should be accommodated?

 

[lanejudy]

I don't think that it is a good idea for some random third party company to be telling another company what accommodations they should give.

I suspect the park contracts with them, providing info on the options available. Kind of like if WDW contracted out the DAS video chats instead of CMs doing it.

 

[Lilsia]

I suspect the park contracts with them, providing info on the options available. Kind of like if WDW contracted out the DAS video chats instead of CMs doing it.

I don't know why any of them would do that. Nobody finds it strange that this random company is involved in people's medical conditions? They are making money off of people's disabilities.

 

[SueM in MN]

I suspect it's considered "preferred" access. PP mentioned "no wait." It's possible something different (the "average wait" PP mentioed?) Is given to wheelchair users who don't pre-register, or maybe queues are mainstreamed. I admit it's been years (decades!) since I went to a Six Flags park, though we've been considering a visit to La Ronde or Great Escape so I'm curious how it works. I honestly don't see us making a doctors appointment just for a letter, especially if I'm not sure how it works, so we may not go anyway.

The park I’m looking at the website for is 6 Flags Great America. They mention in multiple places that the attraction pass allows guests to get a wait time (explanation is very similar to DAS).
Looking at their Accessibility/ADA Guidelines document it states a variation of these for most attraction entry:
Ride Access: Guests using a manual or electric wheelchair or an ECV (or a member of their party) should proceed up the exit ramp and present a valid Attraction Accessibility Pass to a Team Member at the exit to receive a wait time

Ride Access: Guests using a manual or electric wheelchair or an ECV should proceed up the exit and present a valid Attraction Accessibility Pass to a Team Member at the exit to receive a wait time. This ride was constructed before the Americans with Disabilities Act and is only accessible via stairs.

According to the information in that document, they do allow a Care Attendant to enter for free with a doctor’s note verifying need. But, they limit their attraction pass to a total of 4 people.

 

[lanejudy]

I don't know why any of them would do that. Nobody finds it strange that this random company is involved in people's medical conditions? They are making money off of people's disabilities.

There are a lot of third party contractors involved in the business side of healthcare -- billing, insurance claims, medical transcription, scheduling, etc. Nobody is making Six Flags use a third party, their business choice to do so. My only concern is the supposed lack of accommodations if someone doesn't pre-register.

 

[Lilsia]

There are a lot of third party contractors involved in the business side of healthcare -- billing, insurance claims, medical transcription, scheduling, etc. Nobody is making Six Flags use a third party, their business choice to do so. My only concern is the supposed lack of accommodations if someone doesn't pre-register.

That goes to what I am saying. Why would someplace like Six Flags even use a third party company. The whole thing seems sketchy as hell. I don't know why anyone feels comfortable giving this random company access to their medical information. Who knows what they are doing with it. People are way too trusting.

 

[HopperFan]

That goes to what I am saying. Why would someplace like Six Flags even use a third party company. The whole thing seems sketchy as hell. I don't know why anyone feels comfortable giving this random company access to their medical information. Who knows what they are doing with it. People are way too trusting.

Because it removes them from providing employees to do the guest interaction, to have to train these people (pretty much run by kids) and have to deal with abuse or guest issues. It's much easier for them to pay a company that specializes in this area, and honestly your info is likely much less safe with a theme park employee. IBCCES is not a random company, they have been around a long time. Companies like this handle your information all the time from medical providers, insurance companies, benefit coordination companies and you don't even know it.

Disney could move in this direction now that they are charging for Genie+. DAS is now a fee based service they are providing for free. It could be viewed as an advantage. Six Flags has had a pay express pass for years, changes the dynamics of what they can request. And if the Phone/Video DAS is being handled by a third party and working well for Disney, could be that once its running smooth that might be our only option??

And we all have the option of not participating and just getting Genie+.

 

[herdtoDisney]

I don't think I would want to put all my dd's personal information in that group's database. I've never had an issue getting her a DAS, in person, at the parks. It's been smooth for us.

 

[Lilsia]

Because it removes them from providing employees to do the guest interaction, to have to train these people (pretty much run by kids) and have to deal with abuse or guest issues. It's much easier for them to pay a company that specializes in this area, and honestly your info is likely much less safe with a theme park employee. IBCCES is not a random company, they have been around a long time. Companies like this handle your information all the time from medical providers, insurance companies, benefit coordination companies and you don't even know it.

Disney could move in this direction now that they are charging for Genie+. DAS is now a fee based service they are providing for free. It could be viewed as an advantage. Six Flags has had a pay express pass for years, changes the dynamics of what they can request. And if the Phone/Video DAS is being handled by a third party and working well for Disney, could be that once its running smooth that might be our only option??

And we all have the option of not participating and just getting Genie+.

I don't agree that Genie+ is even close to equal treatment. What is the average number of rides that people get with Genie+? It can't be that high if even Disney is now saying that there is a chance that you will only get 2 or 3 rides with it. But those without issues are still able to wait in line, whereas those with a disability, would be out of luck I guess. So no, DAS is not at all the same thing as Genie+ and I am surprised that you would even say that. Disney would have another lawsuit on their hands if they did that.

I don't know how it is legal for this company to ask for a doctor's note either. I thought that is why Disney does not ask for one.