I won't give in till I reach the end... and then I'll start again (comments welcome)

[SharonRunsDisney2023]

It's an interesting twist on the conversation, because usually the question is why dew point instead of humidity. Humidity can be deceiving as a stand-alone value. Two runs can have 90% humidity levels but be vastly different conditions. A temp of 40F with 90% humidity feels way better than 80F with 90% humidity. Two runs that have a dew point of 70F or two runs with a dew point of 40F are going to be more distinguishable. The 40F dew point is going to be a good running day under most temp conditions. A 70F dew point is going to be bad running conditions under most conditions. The Temp in combination with the dew point helps define how bad a 70F dew point is or how ideal a 40F dew point is.

But what you're asking is why not combine Temp+humidity into a single value like we do for Temp+Dew. In theory it should also be possible. Whether a Temp+Dew of 150, whether it's 80F temp + 70F dew or 90F temp + 60F dew, are exactly equal is debatable, but they're close in how they effect your body (this is isolating these two values and ignoring solar radiation). I've seen this with my own personal data that more often than not, 150 is 150 and requires a 4.5% adjustment regardless of how it was composed. But more often the comparison that is best made is that 150 is way worse than 120, and 170 is way way worse than 150. Meaning the bodies response to the change in T+D is not linear, and a difference in these values creates a significantly different response.

What I don't have data on, is whether a 80F temp + 70% humidity (150 value when treating the % not as a %) and 90F temp + 60% humidity (150 value as well) are near equal. At 80F with 70% humidity, that's a T+D of 150 as well (70% humidity at 80F is 70 dew point) and 90F with 60% humidity, that's a T+D value of 165 (60% humidity at 90F is 75 dew point). So the T+H are equal at 150 each, but the T+D is 150 vs 165. My personal data would say that these T+H values, despite being equal, are going to produce vastly different body responses. That very well may be why T+D is a more preferred method over T+H. Because with T+D, a 150 is a comparable value despite how it's come to be, and a T+H value of 150 has a vastly different response depending on how it's come to be. Presumably a higher T+H value will yield less ideal conditions than a low T+H value, but if the values themselves are less comparable depending on how they came about, then it disrupts the ability to use it as a means to predict/change goal pacing.

I did have to read it through a few times, but I found that very interesting. Thanks.

 

[azrivest]

Finished my (very very) long tempo run this morning and so proud of myself I didn't think there was any way I could run a 6-mile tempo during a weekday, but I got through it and I didn't want to die at the end.

T+D was 71+68 at start, 74+67 at end, so pretty hot and humid. With a ~140, it's about a 3% pace adjustment. Target GMP was 11:26/mi, adjusted was 11:46/mi and I kept an average of 11:36/mi, so yay me!

As flav said, the little train is going. Le p'tit train s'en va loin. I'm in a much better place mentally and physically than just 7 days ago.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you everyone for the kind words and thoughts for my daughter. We have appointments with a resource teacher on Monday and her doctor on Tuesday to see what we can do to address her learning disabilities. My son also has ADHD so it's not completely new for us. For DS, it's much more the hyperactivity than the attention deficit (and he's super smart so he compensates). My daughter isn't so academically inclined: we'll work on using her alternate strengths to help her learn.

 

[azrivest]

Week 8 of 16 of my first-ever marathon training plan. Halfway there!

I'm pretty sure this week was my highest mileage week ever. Today was my longest run ever anyway. I'm starting to see how marathon training is creeping up on other aspects of my life. I won't be able to continue working 40h/week and running 7-8h/week. I've got quite a few vacation days saved up and I'm lucky that I have a flexible schedule. I can take a half-day or a full-day off spontaneously if I need to, as long as it doesn't impact any important client or internal meetings. I'm going to take advantage of this if I have other long runs planned during the week, cause the only other thing I can cut back now is sleep.

Other than that, not much to say, apart from Thursday's update.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 32.36 miles
• Running Time = 6:44 (yowza )

Monday

• Off

Tuesday

• 30-45 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:34-7:05 min/km
  • Completed: 5.43 km ~ 41:45 (7:41 min/km)
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 2 - Strength Program A
  • Completed: 8:31
• Today was my last yoga class in a while. My yoga teacher is taking an extended break. I actually fell asleep during the final shavasana

Wednesday

• Recovery Day (Off, Cross-Train or Optional Run)
• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:34-7:05 min/km
  • Completed: 4.21 km ~ 30:01 (7:08 min/km)
• Temps were perfect for running that morning. It was around 14C/57F when I went out the door. It felt sooo good. Such a contrast to today Sunday.

Thursday

• Goal Pace
• Planned:
  • 2-mi WU
  • 6 miles (10 km) at Goal Marathon Pace @ 11:26 min/mi
  • 2-mi CD
  • Completed: 2.00 miles ~ 24:41 + 6.00 miles ~ 1:09:36 (11:36 min/mi) + 1.05 miles ~ 14:27
• As I wrote on Thursday, considering the T+D, I was really proud of myself. And it was my longest weekday run ever. (okay a lot of longests this week. That's marathon training right?) I ended up taking a half day off of work, cause there was no way I was going to be able to work 8h after running 1h45.
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 1 - Stability Program B
  • Completed: Skipped. That tempo run was enough.

Friday

• Off

Saturday

• 30-45 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:34-7:05 min/km
  • Completed: 4.89 km ~ 35:56 (7:20 min/km)
• Drills: done
• Environment Canada issued an extreme heat warning for the weekend. Feels like temps on Sat and Sun afternoon were forecasted to go over 40C, which is in the 100s F.
• Just took it easy, nevermind the planned pace.

Sunday

• 14-16 mile (22-26 km) Long Run
• Planned: 22 km @ 6:36-7:21 min/km
  • Completed: 22.33 km ~ 3:00:00 (8:03 min/km)
• T+D@str = 76+70 (at 4:30 am!!!)
• T+D@end = 79+71
• Got up at 4:15 to be out the door before the sun was up, since I knew this run was going to take me almost 3 hours. Managed about 2/3s of the run before the sun was fully up.
• Again, heeded Billy's advice and just ran easy. Which meant I ran almost a minute slower per km than planned. But it was the best thing to do. After reaching 3 hours, I stopped. I ended up beating my longest run ever by 10m, woohoo

Happy running!

 

[HangWithMerida]

Awesome work! This phase of marathon training is what has me the most nervous. I don't have a flexible schedule. The best I can do is try to switch some shifts to get a later start time to buy me time in the morning. Those long mid week runs are going to be a major adjustment and I am already having to consider how I will handle them. Watching your journey has been very informative as we run at a similar pace and are hitting a lot of the same firsts. Keep up the good work!

 

[azrivest]

Went out running this morning. After the first 10 minutes, my left hamstring said "Nope, not gonna happen today". I ended limping the mile back to my house. Some kind of bad twinge, I dunno what it was.

I was able to get a same-day appt with my PT. It's basically my left back chain: glute, ab/adductor and hamstring that are too weak. After my 14-mile run on Sunday, my left side has decided it's had enough. So related to this week's SAFD, don't neglect your cross-training kids!

I'm going to have to take a few days off and work on strengthening my left muscles. Which means I'm going to have to skip some runs this week and so. much. anxiety. Please commiserate with me while I curl up and cry.

(and yes I'm kidding. I'm taking a step back so I can take better steps forward in the end, I know).

 

[azrivest]

Dunno if it was the best move but... I can get so OCD about skipping a training run that I had to go out today. My PT is okay with it, as long as I go slow. Anything that's sprinting or interval-like running is off the table.

Decided to take it super slow, using a combination of MAF method (so below 140HR at all times) and run/walk, which I normally don't do. I ended up with 60/30 run/walk intervals, which I did for 30 minutes. My left hamstring is definitely sore and stiff, but it was never painful. And lo and behold, my vo2max went up from 40 to 41. So, I guess... this is positive? To quote the ever wise Andy Dwyer:

I'm not 100% health tho and I know it. I'll be doing strenthening exercices for my left leg almost every day, which is so much weaker than my right. Yesterday, I tried to do a one-leg hip stretcher and I couldn't even lift off the ground. Here are the exercices I'll be targetting, based on the Strength in Stride program and based on my PT's recommendations:
- Hip thrusters, aiming to at least lift my right foot off the chair briefly, since I can't handle single-leg yet
- Bear walks with leg extensions
- Jump squats
- One-leg stair jumps
- Copenhagen adductor lifts
- A combination of garudasana and/or vrikshasana

Anyone have any other recommendations?

A question for @DopeyBadger : tomorrow's planned run was a Yasso 800s. Should I just run the duration whilst ignoring the paces? There's no way my leg can tolerate any kind of hard intensity. And even then, a 1h20 run seems a bit too much considering where I'm at.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Went out running this morning. After the first 10 minutes, my left hamstring said "Nope, not gonna happen today". I ended limping the mile back to my house. Some kind of bad twinge, I dunno what it was.

Did you feel anything during the 14 mile run? What was the stretching like after the run? What did you do for the rest of the day (did you mostly stay mobile, or was it more sitting around and relaxing)?

I'm wondering, in addition to the weakness the PT saw, is whether this is a warning sign that the long run, despite the pace being slower, is just too much at the moment? Like maybe it should be a consideration to back off the future long runs a bit and take a more conservative approach.

A question for @DopeyBadger : tomorrow's planned run was a Yasso 800s. Should I just run the duration whilst ignoring the paces? There's no way my leg can tolerate any kind of hard intensity. And even then, a 1h20 run seems a bit too much considering where I'm at.

I wouldn't go over 45-60 min for the time being, but defer to the advice if your PT which sees you in person. And that's as long as it doesn't seem to be getting worse during the course of the run. It sounds like an overextension in the training. Hamstrings are a tricky injury and they can linger if you don't back off to allow it to heal. I've had issues with them off and on (link). You've still got 8 weeks until race day. A healthy and slightly less trained you beats an injured you.

 

[azrivest]

Did you feel anything during the 14 mile run? What was the stretching like after the run? What did you do for the rest of the day (did you mostly stay mobile, or was it more sitting around and relaxing)?

Yes I did feel it. But the advice from my PT has always been: if it's uncomfortable, take it easy. If it hurts, stop. So I figured I could keep on running.

The rest of the day was a combination of both. DD wanted to go shopping so we walked around for maybe 90-120 minutes?

Reading you is reminding me that, as you wrote, my goal is to get to the starting line healthy and ready. It's hard to back off, but I really need to do it. No 16-miler this Sunday, absolutely not.

 

[DopeyBadger]

No 16-miler this Sunday, absolutely not.

Absolutely NOT. If you felt the hamstring tightening over the course of the 14 miler, then it sounds like you're overextending yourself at the moment. When during the 14 miler did it become noticeable?

 

[azrivest]

Absolutely NOT. If you felt the hamstring tightening over the course of the 14 miler, then it sounds like you're overextending yourself at the moment. When during the 14 miler did it become noticeable?

Hard to say honestly. My run took me 3 hours, so maybe the last hour or so? At that time I didn't know if it was a cramp because of the heat or something else.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hard to say honestly. My run took me 3 hours, so maybe the last hour or so? At that time I didn't know if it was a cramp because of the heat or something else.

Yea I guess I might reconsider the length of your long runs from now until race day even after the hamstring heals. You can be successful on less.

 

[flav]

Reading you is reminding me that, as you wrote, my goal is to get to the starting line healthy and ready.

Yes, I want to see you there!

Keep in mind that the marathon that you are training for is mostly a slight downhill, if it is a factor for hamstrings extension. Some of my friends find that hard on their quads and back. I didn’t feel a difference last year.

 

[azrivest]

Week 9 of 16 of my first-ever marathon training plan

I posted a few updates already this week. As you know if you've read, I snapped something in my left hamstring on Tuesday. I took most of the week off/easy. The thing that helped the most was putting ice on it 3 times a day. That lemonade quote should really become my motto. I think I definitely needed that break, injury or not. I was able to take a few days off and spend more time with my family and friends. I even went out with a friend for gin&tonic one evening, which I had not done in months. Helped me to bring me back to the love of running, and not just run because my training plan says to.

I spent part of the weekend with my big bro, who's an ace runner like Billy. I told him I'd go running but only if we kept it major easy, cause whenever I go out running with him I always end up pushing it.

I've also discovered the advantages of run/walking. I don't know if I'll become a 100% enthusiast. I've always preferred to run continuously, just because it helps me to zone out. But ironically enough, I tried it on Saturday for my first run post-injury and my vo2Max went up, even tho I was way slower than normal. So again, lemonade!

Summary:

• Running Distance = 12.85 miles
• Running Time = 3:07

Less than half of last week but I definitely needed it.

Monday

• Off

Tuesday

• 40-50 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 45:00 @ 6:34-7:05 min/km
  • Completed: 1.22 km ~ 10:00 (8:13 min/km)
• Did the first 10 minutes at a slower pace. The instant I tried to speed up to the planned 7:05/k pace, my hamstring said no.
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 2 - Strength Program A
  • Completed: 13:06
• I did my strength training in the evening per my PT's recommendations. As I wrote, I can't even do single leg hip thrusters.

Wednesday

• Recovery Day (Off, Cross-Train or Optional Run)
• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:34-7:05 min/km
  • Completed: 3.89 km ~ 32:00 (8:13 min/km)
• Did 60/30 run/walk intervals and vo2max went up to 41. Didn't feel great for my thigh though.

Thursday

• Yasso 800s
• Planned: Who cares?
  • Completed: Nothing whatsoever. I decided to take a few days off to let my hamstring rest.
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 2 - Strength Program B
  • Completed: 11:22

Friday

• Off

Saturday

• Did my drills before my run to make sure I was properly warmed up and my left hs/glute were fired up before running
• 30-45 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:34-7:05 min/km
  • Completed: 3.55 km ~ 29:00 (8:10 min/km)
• More 60/30 run/walk intervals. My hamstring felt a teeny bit stiff. As soon as I wasn't feeling it, I would stop.
• My avg HR was 134 bpm, which is incredibly low for me. I'm usually in the 155-160 range. So I understand why people are such fans of the run/walk method.

Sunday

• 16-18 mile Long Run with Downhill Focus
• Planned: Who cares?
  • Completed: 7 mi ~ 1:23:11 (11:52 min/mi)
• Went running with Big Bro. I decided to go by feel and stop when I felt tired or my leg hurt. I ended up tired before.
• I got the downhill focus part at least. First half of my run had a 308.4 ft descent and the last two miles had a 285.4 ft ascent. I walked most of those two miles

On Friday we're finally leaving for our summer holiday. We're driving down to DC to take the Auto Train. Thanks to striker1064 I've been stalking the Amtrak Archive site. So far, the monthly average delays arriving into Sanford aren't too bad!
Average Ar delay: 3 minutes late
Median Ar delay: 17 minutes early

So next week, my trip report will be from the Royal Pacific. Curious to see how I'll manage running at Universal. I can't wait!

Happy running!

 

[azrivest]

Mini-race report: 5$ for a race & a beer, 08/16

I'm spending the week with Big Bro and we decided to spontaneously sign up for a local evening 5k. Cost of sign-up was 5$ which included the race and a beer afterwards. I thought that was a very good deal

Coming off of an injury, I didn't want to push it. Big Bro was looking to break 20 minutes. Not at all the same goals. My only strategy was to try and run continuously, so not get so tired I need to take a walk break. If my leg started hurting at any time, I would walk the rest of the 5k. Endgame --> Beer!

Having a pro with me really helped. We warmed up in depth, with drills + strides, so I didn't start running with cold muscles.

I finished with an official time of 00:28:53, which is amazing, considering I had gone trail running in the morning. It's my 3rd best 5k time ever. And I never stopped running, even at km 3 where there was a pretty intense uphill climb. I finished 347th out of 609 and 50th in my age group (F30-39).

Big Bro got close with 00:20:03, 3 seconds short of his goal. But he was first in his age group Really proud of him.

I had no expectations going into this race, knowing that I'm training for a full and have not concentrated on speed work at all in the past 6 months. My fitness level is still pretty good.

 

[Cabius]

Congrats on the beer! (And the race, too.)

 

[GollyGadget]

Wow! Great job! $5 is a great deal!

I often pay more for just the beer

 

[kps7795]

Mini-race report: 5$ for a race & a beer, 08/16

I'm spending the week with Big Bro and we decided to spontaneously sign up for a local evening 5k. Cost of sign-up was 5$ which included the race and a beer afterwards. I thought that was a very good deal

Coming off of an injury, I didn't want to push it. Big Bro was looking to break 20 minutes. Not at all the same goals. My only strategy was to try and run continuously, so not get so tired I need to take a walk break. If my leg started hurting at any time, I would walk the rest of the 5k. Endgame --> Beer!

Having a pro with me really helped. We warmed up in depth, with drills + strides, so I didn't start running with cold muscles.

I finished with an official time of 00:28:53, which is amazing, considering I had gone trail running in the morning. It's my 3rd best 5k time ever. And I never stopped running, even at km 3 where there was a pretty intense uphill climb. I finished 347th out of 609 and 50th in my age group (F30-39).

Big Bro got close with 00:20:03, 3 seconds short of his goal. But he was first in his age group Really proud of him.

I had no expectations going into this race, knowing that I'm training for a full and have not concentrated on speed work at all in the past 6 months. My fitness level is still pretty good.

That's great! Congratulations on a great race.

 

[azrivest]

Week 10 of 16 of my first-ever marathon training plan

Yikes I'm into the double digits.

My hamstring injury is healed so I was able to run normally, including my 5k race last Tuesday. Other than that, my training schedule was completely thrown off by our trip down to Orlando, including an OTD and early arrival with the Auto Train!

Temps were finally getting back to normal in Quebec and I had to travel down to very hot&humid Florida. When we booked this trip, I did not know I would be training for a marathon.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 20.24 miles
• Running Time = 3:58

Monday

• Off

Tuesday

• 50-60 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 55:00 @ 6:30-7:00 min/km (so paces have increased this week)
  • Completed: 3.62 km ~ 30:00 (8:17 min/km) + 5.02 km ~ 28:55 (5:45 min/km)
• Did a morning trail run, and ran my 5k race in the evening.
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 2 - Strength Program A
  • Completed: Nothing. But I did do drills & strides before the race.

Wednesday

• Recovery Day (Off, Cross-Train or Optional Run)
• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:30-7:00 min/km
  • Completed: Nothing
• I don't remember why I didn't go running. Maybe I was still too tired from the race the night before?

Thursday

• Instead of the planned hill workout, I went out for an easy run today, since I was intending to do my long run the next day and didn't want two back-to-back hard workouts.
• 30-45 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:30-7:00 min/km
  • Completed: 5 km ~ 37:26 (7:28 min/km)
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 2 - Strength Program B
  • Completed: 8:40

Friday

• This was supposed to be my Sunday Long Run, but I didn't want to do my long run in the middle of a Sunday afternoon Orlando heat. This run was really a misnomer, since my "fast finish" pace was slower than the first planned pace.
• Fast Finish Long Run: 14-16 miles total with the last 4-6 miles at Goal Marathon Pace or faster
• Planned: 10 mi @ 10:31-11:42 min/mi + 6 mi @ 11:26 min/mi
  • Completed: 10 mi ~ 1:51:38
• I didn't have time to complete the 16 planned miles. We wanted to leave as early as possible to start the drive down to Hazleton, which in hindsight was the adult and correct thing to do. So I randomly switched my run to 10+6k instead of 10+6mi.
• Even with cutting down my run, we arrived in Hazleton past 7pm, so I'm glad I didn't go out for those extra 5-6 miles.

Saturday

• Recovery Day (Off, Cross-Train or Optional Run)
• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:30-7:00 min/km
  • Completed: 2.91 km ~ 30:01 (10:19 min/km)
• Did this run in the hotel gym. It was barely more than a walk since I didn't want to feel icky for the rest of the drive from Hazleton to Lorton.

Sunday

• Hill workout
• Planned: Too lazy to type it out
  • Completed: Nothing
• After a 10 hour drive over 2 days + a 17 hour period on the train, I was feeling dizzy and did not feel like running at all. Oh and did I mention it's humid in Florida?

I was listening to the Rise&Run podcast this morning and they repeated that life does get in the way of marathon training sometimes. This was one of those times. Had I run all my planned runs during the weekend, it would have negatively impacted my family who had to wait for me. I think I made the right choice.

Spoiler alert for next week, I found a decent route to run on in Universal It's no Hourglass Lake but it's still nice!

Happy running!

 

[striker1064]

including an OTD and early arrival with the Auto Train!

I don't believe it.

Have a great trip!

 

[azrivest]

Week 11 of 16 of my first-ever marathon training plan

Yikes I'm in trouble.

I'll do my weekly report tonight since I'm for sure not going running tomorrow.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 7.3 miles
• Running Time = 1:32

Monday

• Off

Tuesday

• 60-80 minute Easy Run (Downhill Focus)
• Planned: 1:10:00 @ 6:30-7:00 min/km
  • Completed: 8.06 km ~ 1:01:32 (7:38 min/km)
• Went running in the early morning around Universal, down Turkey Lake Road and back up. It was super hot and humid but it was pretty pleasant, and I saw at least 4 other runners.
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 3 - Power Program A
  • Completed: Nothing. We had to hit the parks (an excuse, but a good excuse )

Wednesday

• Recovery Day (Off, Cross-Train or Optional Run)
• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:30-7:00 min/km
  • Completed: 3.64 km ~ 30:33 (8:23 min/km)
• I went running at 1pm so there was no way I was doing this outside. Did a slow run on the treadmill at the hotel while my kids went swimming.

Thursday

• Goal Pace
• Planned: 10 miles
  • Completed: Nothing
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 3 - Power Program B
  • Completed: Nothing
• This is where things went sideways. Thursday was our departure day. The check-in for the Auto Train wasn't until ~2pm, so I would have had enough time to go running. But I was feeling pretty tired. And I didn't want to do 10 miles up and down Turkey Lane. Figured I would push this run to Sunday when we would be home.
• As the day progressed, I started feeling worse and by the time we went to bed on the train, I knew I was going to be sick.

So I basically haven't run since that 30 minutes on the treadmill on Wednesday. I tried to isolate as much as I could on the way back, hiding in my hotel room and wearing a mask everywhere. That was the right call since I tested myself as soon as we got home tonight and turns out I came home from Orlando with the C-thing. :'(

Dunno what I'm going to do, 5 weeks out from my marathon. I feel like it's a cold and not that sick, but I need to take it easy for a few days. What am I going to do? I'm really worried and upset and feeling stupid for planning a vacation to Orlando just a few weeks before this marathon I've been training so hard for.

So no happy running from me this week. What am I going to do???