I thought I'd seen it all---

[Turn the Page]

This wasn't in Disney World and I have told this story before but still, my favorite misbehaving child in a restaurant story was when I was waiting on a small office Christmas party where the staff brought their kids and the kids were ignored so much that they started running all over the restaurant playing hide and seek. When the mom finally clued in enough to realize the 4 year old was missing it elicited a full staff search of the building and parking lot while mom sobbed hysterically thinking the kid had been kidnapped. The boss tipped me REALLY well for that event. I always wondered if the boss ever said something to the employee that belonged to that family. Ordinarily I would say it wasn't the bosses place but if the family's behavior interrupts a company event to that magnitude I think the boss would be well within their rights to say something.

 

[rideswithchrist]

This doesn't have to do with restaurants but with raising kids the way you want them to behave. So, my son knew not to litter. Without a word to or from us, my son went over, picked up the wrapper and touched the boy on the arm and said "excuse me, but I think you dropped this - the trash can is over there". Then he came back to us and the look on the parents' faces and that boy's face was priceless. And the boy put the wrapper into the trashcan.

So yes, keeping your mouth closed is fine but making a small statement is beyond great.

THIS!

At the end of the day, all we can do as Parents is train our children in the ways they should go.
My husband and I point out misbehaving kids to our children so they see the way they are acting.
My son is a talker and the "worst" he does at a restaurant is turn around and talk to the people behind us. And we let him for a minute or so and then remind him that they are eating too and he needs to sit down. And he is loud- no amount of training has changed that yet, he is 4 and a social bug. He makes all the waiters and waitresses laugh and gets free food when we eat. I know some people would say "ugh, listen to that obnoxious child talking over everyone else". Meh. He is sitting in his seat at least, but yes, sorry- he is very loud.

I think some of these parents think "I am on vacation, so- I am not cooking/cleaning/disciplining/caring...which is irresponsible.
Many of these sound like parents that don't want to be bothered with the parenting and what comes from it. Parenting is hard, kids need a TON of reminders. My son challenges me every single day, but he also has respect out in public because he knows it is a privilege that can be taken away.

I for one am so irritated by the parenting of today. Too many "coddlers" and parents that refuse to discipline poor little "billy".

Disney is a place for families so yes- that means lots and lots of children and todays children have been raised on youtube and ipads and are ill mannered.

Maybe it is the homeschooler in me that does things a bit differently- but I know that teachers have been stripped of the ability to tell kids NO anymore, which furthers the cycle of disrespect to people other than themselves.

My other thought is that these parents are simply Facebook selfish and do not realize that they are in PUBLIC with other people than themselves.
My kids know they have to respect other adults- no they do not have to OBEY them (there are perverts in authority positions too and my kids do not have to obey someone that is telling them to "keep a secret" or "come with them somewhere")

 

[Uncleromulus]

no...i see the same things you see and everyone else does....i just internalize differently then many. As i stated before, i try and give every benifit of the doubt to parents in those situations....and i move on with my day

My view on all of this is from the "children are made to be seen--not heard" generation. That was my parents hard and fast rule--I probably wouldn't be sitting here typing this now if my parents had ever seen me acting in public the way so many kids are allowed these days

But at least I have a chance to eat at the bar in most WDW restaurants and avoid this sort of thing at least there. At pools and the Parks it isn't so easy to do unfortunately---

 

[winterwhite]

no...i see the same things you see and everyone else does....i just internalize differently then many. As i stated before, i try and give every benifit of the doubt to parents in those situations....and i move on with my day

I don't waste time giving the benefit of the doubt to people who obviously decided to create the situation they are in.

Last night leaving HS a number of parents let their kids scream the entire time and then said "I can't believe they are that loud, that is way too loud for kids!"

Hey, if it's too loud for your kids, why did you sit there for 15 minutes letting them scream about it?

Never mind the kids that are three hours past their bedtime. Let's be honest - Disney isn't actually about kids. It's about parents wanting to make "magical memories" for their overtired, hot children who have been pumped full of fried food and been told they are a princess for a week.if the parents didnt tell them, kids would have no idea who Mickey is, that there is a fireworks show, that they can meet Elsa, or whatever other "must do" there is.

Parents create the situation and then throw their hands up and say "oh well he's just being a kid!" If your kid can't keep quiet through a 2 hour, hundred dollar meal, maybe don't go to one. But expecting other people to put up with it is rude no matter how "family friendly" a place is. That just means your kids are welcome, not that they can be terrorists and get patted on the head and handed some more ice cream.

 

[disneyseniors]

Well, I've read all these comments and am as upset by the examples of horrible behavior, by the kids and their parents,as other posters. All this brought to mind an incident that happened several years ago involving a child who went into full tantrum mode whenever he didnt' get his way.

We owned a resort and had a nice lodge for the guests to enjoy, with a pool table, video games, books, board games, darts, beverages and snacks, pizzas, you get the drift. Just a nice place to take a break and relax. We had this young couple who had a young boy, appx 5 y/o. They would bring him into the resort every day,and every day he would have a major tantrum: falling to the floor and screaming and kicking. It got to be that we dreaded seeing this family head into the lodge.

One day, the boy yet again had a falling down, kicking tantrum. His Mom immediately fell to the floor, kicking and yelling. You should have seen the boys face as he stopped his tantrum and looked at his mother like she had lost her mind. He got up and walked away. Later on, he tried the tantrum again, and again, his Mom laid on the floor and commenced kicking and screaming. He looked at her with a disgusted look, and from then on, he never threw another tantrum in our lodge again! Gotta hand it to the Mom for laying on the floor and going into a tantrum with lots of other people in the lodge too.

Bottom line, it worked! I even tried this on our grandkids if they started a tantrum with the same results. They were disgusted with my behavior and quit having tantrums!

Just a funny story I wanted to share.

 

[saskdw]

Must be a relative of the woman at The Plaza that took out her electric shaver and shaved her legs at the table while we were dining.

WHAAAAAAAAAATTT???????????

 

[MammaMoe48]

People are free to parent the way they choose in the US. If someone chooses not to be an authoritarian, that is their perogative. If they choose gentle attatchment parenting that is also their prerogative. My parents didn't have to scare me as a child to inspire me to do what is right. And I was also a good kid because of how I was raised.

So you're saying that if a parent chooses not to teach their child manners, and sets no boundaries or rules as to how to behave and if the child never has to face any consequences for their bad behavior, it is the parents' prerogative? If a child is throwing things at strangers, or kicking the backs of seats or taking food off other people's plates or hitting other children and the parent does nothing, it's ok if that's how the parent chooses to parent? That's ridiculous, children need rules, they need to know that there are boundaries that can't be crossed. Teaching a child how to behave actually lets them know they are loved and that they are important. Children act up when they are feeling ignored or neglected.

And you don't have to "scare" them to behave. If a kid is running around the restaurant or refusing to sit and eat, you leave the restaurant and let the child know that it was his behavior that caused everyone to not have a good time. If a kid is kicking someone's seat back at a movie or show and won't stop, you take them out and help them understand that if they don't behave within the rules, they won't get to do fun things. They will get the message eventually. You can't decide when they are 12 or 15 or 21 to suddenly start teaching them manners.

Remember that one day that child will be a teenager then an adult and he or she will be society's problem and if they don't know how to behave like a civilized human being, it will society's prerogative to decide how long the prison term is.

 

[cornflkgrl]

So you're saying that if a parent chooses not to teach their child manners, and sets no boundaries or rules as to how to behave and if the child never has to face any consequences for their bad behavior, it is the parents' prerogative? If a child is throwing things at strangers, or kicking the backs of seats or taking food off other people's plates or hitting other children and the parent does nothing, it's ok if that's how the parent chooses to parent? That's ridiculous, children need rules, they need to know that there are boundaries that can't be crossed. Teaching a child how to behave actually lets them know they are loved and that they are important. Children act up when they are feeling ignored or neglected.

Remember that one day that child will be a teenager then an adult and he or she will be society's problem and if they don't know how to behave like a civilized human being, it will society's prerogative to decide how long the prison term is.

Or if they don't teach that child common sense and that child grows into an adult and that adult goes onto a message board and takes a statement about the right to gentle peaceful parenting versus authoritarian parenting to the extreme...

The real problem will be children with no internal sense of what is good and bad, who are only motivated to do right because they fear authority or want something. The real problem: Children who are only motivated to do anything because parents/teachers/authority figures make them/force them/reward them or scare them into to doing it. Intrinsic motivation doesn't exist for them. I'd rather my kids grow into adults who don't speed because they don't want to get into an accident;, rather than adults who don't speed so they won't get a ticket. I'd rather they not shoplift because they feel it is morally wrong to take something from someone else or that it will place an undue burden on the shop owner and on the consumers who will have to pay a higher price as a result, rather than they not shoplift because they are afraid they'd get caught. I have longer-term goals for them and I don't care if it takes longer to teach them than a smack on the hand or punitive punishment. I also don't care if someone at Disney World does or doesn't get what I'm trying to do because unless my kid is doing something dangerous or breaking the rules at Disney World or directly effecting someone else, it is not their business.

And as far as manners, whose manners? Yours? Manners in my home might be different than manners in yours. Manners are a cultural thing. Disney World is filled with people from all over the world. There are basic behaviors and ways we treat others but manners are something else entirely.

People are expected to follow the laws and customs of the place they are visiting. But there is no obligation that I parent the way that someone else wants me to. If there is a health code violation or someone has done something against the law or broken rules of the park, then that can be reported. Report it to the manager. Report it to security. If they've just done something that annoys you because it doesn't fit with your particular parenting style, that is just too bad. I don't like people that beat and berate their children, but I have to tolerate it. I don't like it when people threaten their kids. I don't get to walk up and tell them to stop. I'll (society's problem -- as you say) have to deal with the broken adults they are creating that will put an undue burden on our healthcare system in the future. I guess we both just have to deal with it.

And you said: "so you're saying..." I'm not saying. It is true. We are in the United States. We do have the right to parent how we see fit, as long as we are not neglecting our kids and they are being cared for. Not spanking a kid or "scaring them" into behaving isn't neglect.

And as I said before, that is why I try not to pay any attention to other families at Disney World. I like to enjoy my vacations.

 

[ElizabethG]

This is the reason why I will never go back to Ohana. Been there twice and the supervision for some of the kids doing the activities is non-existant. Witnessed multiple times where kids would take the broomstick from that race and hit random people with it while the parents laughed. I also saw the kids standing on the table routine there too.

I have a pretty high tolerance for other kids behavior. The only time on our last trip that stuck with me as bad behavior was at Ohana. It was at breakfast. There was a very large group of what looked like extended family. The adults were at one table and the kids were at another (the tables were next to each other). The kids were done eating. They started taking all of the left over food and playing with it. Much of it went on the ground. Waffles were put into their water glasses. They were pouring syrup on the table and in various containers. The parents were laughing about it. I hope they left a big tip!

 

[gmboy95]

.....i remember the time my son loved to push the buttons on the elevator when he was 3 and he would run ahead of us so he could push the button first....this one day he ran onto the elevator because the door was open and as i ran after him the door closed on the elevator with him in it (BCV)....freaking the hell out, I ran downstairs to the next level to see if i could find him....Meanwhile the door opened back up on the floor my wife was on, and she rushed into the elevator to grab my son and pull him off with the baby in the stroller, as he cried she hugged him and took him off the elevator, only to have the door close with my 6 month old in the stroller now on the elevator....this lead to complete panic and multiple people running to multiple floors, only to have the door open again on the same floor with everyone safe.......i tell this story because i wonder what the description on this board would have been like if someone had stumbled on to this seen of a parent frantically searching for an infant in a stroller they left on an elevator??.....again, it could be interpreted many ways, as a person just coming onto the scene would not understand the context of any of it....next thing ya know, your an example of horrible parenting. Which in this case we didn't need anyone to make us feel horrible we felt bad enough

 

[MammaMoe48]

Or if they don't teach that child common sense and that child grows into an adult and that adult goes onto a message board and takes a statement about the right to gentle peaceful parenting versus authoritarian parenting to the extreme...

The real problem will be children with no internal sense of what is good and bad, who are only motivated to do right because they fear authority or want something. The real problem: Children who are only motivated to do anything because parents/teachers/authority figures make them/force them/reward them or scare them into to doing it. Intrinsic motivation doesn't exist for them. I'd rather my kids grow into adults who don't speed because they don't want to get into an accident;, rather than adults who don't speed so they won't get a ticket. I'd rather they not shoplift because they feel it is morally wrong to take something from someone else or that it will place an undue burden on the shop owner and on the consumers who will have to pay a higher price as a result, rather than they not shoplift because they are afraid they'd get caught. I have longer-term goals for them and I don't care if it takes longer to teach them than a smack on the hand or punitive punishment. I also don't care if someone at Disney World does or doesn't get what I'm trying to do because unless my kid is doing something dangerous or breaking the rules at Disney World or directly effecting someone else, it is not their business.

And as far as manners, whose manners? Yours? Manners in my home might be different than manners in yours. Manners are a cultural thing. Disney World is filled with people from all over the world. There are basic behaviors and ways we treat others but manners are something else entirely.

People are expected to follow the laws and customs of the place they are visiting. But there is no obligation that I parent the way that someone else wants me to. If there is a health code violation or someone has done something against the law or broken rules of the park, then that can be reported. Report it to the manager. Report it to security. If they've just done something that annoys you because it doesn't fit with your particular parenting style, that is just too bad. I don't like people that beat and berate their children, but I have to tolerate it. I don't like it when people threaten their kids. I don't get to walk up and tell them to stop. I'll (society's problem -- as you say) have to deal with the broken adults they are creating that will put an undue burden on our healthcare system in the future. I guess we both just have to deal with it.

And you said: "so you're saying..." I'm not saying. It is true. We are in the United States. We do have the right to parent how we see fit, as long as we are not neglecting our kids and they are being cared for. Not spanking a kid or "scaring them" into behaving isn't neglect.

And as I said before, that is why I try not to pay any attention to other families at Disney World. I like to enjoy my vacations.

People have a right to decide how they want to parent but that doesn't mean that they have a right to not parent at all. If a child is throwing food across the table at a sibling or at a parent or at a stranger at another table,the parent must stop them and tell them "no". There are certain societal norms, or manners, that every culture in every country accepts as basic human civility. You can paint the behavior with the brush of "culture" but I don't know any culture that accepts throwing food, hitting, spitting, biting, crawling under or walking on top of tables, kicking seats, throwing tantrums or screaming as acceptable behavior.

No matter where you go, in civilized society and in any place in the world there are basic manners that are expected and should be taught. Go to France or England or Germany and see if anyone would allow their child to walk on tables or eat off other people's plates or throw food. I dare you to find one person in all of Japan, China, Korea, India or any Asian or African country that would say that screaming and throwing a tantrum is acceptable. I doubt people in South American are kicking the backs of chairs in movie theaters. No, manners are manners no matter where you go. And if you teach a child how to behave properly from the start (the best way to do this is by example) there is no need to "scare" them or "punish" them because they will know.

I'm not talking about spanking or hitting or telling a child they are going to go to hell if they are bad. I'm talking about positive reinforcement. If they behave then they can continue to eat in restaurants and go to movies, if they don't behave then they don't go back until they are older and have learned how to behave.

A person can hope their child will grow up to make good choices and do good things for no other reason than because it's the right thing to do, common sense you called it, but a child cannot learn what is the right thing to do if they aren't taught what is right and wrong.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

My view on all of this is from the "children are made to be seen--not heard" generation. That was my parents hard and fast rule--I probably wouldn't be sitting here typing this now if my parents had ever seen me acting in public the way so many kids are allowed these days

But at least I have a chance to eat at the bar in most WDW restaurants and avoid this sort of thing at least there. At pools and the Parks it isn't so easy to do unfortunately---

We must be related...that was the rule when I was a child.

I don't waste time giving the benefit of the doubt to people who obviously decided to create the situation they are in.

Last night leaving HS a number of parents let their kids scream the entire time and then said "I can't believe they are that loud, that is way too loud for kids!"

Hey, if it's too loud for your kids, why did you sit there for 15 minutes letting them scream about it?

Never mind the kids that are three hours past their bedtime. Let's be honest - Disney isn't actually about kids. It's about parents wanting to make "magical memories" for their overtired, hot children who have been pumped full of fried food and been told they are a princess for a week.if the parents didnt tell them, kids would have no idea who Mickey is, that there is a fireworks show, that they can meet Elsa, or whatever other "must do" there is.

Parents create the situation and then throw their hands up and say "oh well he's just being a kid!" If your kid can't keep quiet through a 2 hour, hundred dollar meal, maybe don't go to one. But expecting other people to put up with it is rude no matter how "family friendly" a place is. That just means your kids are welcome, not that they can be terrorists and get patted on the head and handed some more ice cream.

^ THIS. Well put!!!

 

[MammaMoe48]

.....i remember the time my son loved to push the buttons on the elevator when he was 3 and he would run ahead of us so he could push the button first....this one day he ran onto the elevator because the door was open and as i ran after him the door closed on the elevator with him in it (BCV)....freaking the hell out, I ran downstairs to the next level to see if i could find him....Meanwhile the door opened back up on the floor my wife was on, and she rushed into the elevator to grab my son and pull him off with the baby in the stroller, as he cried she hugged him and took him off the elevator, only to have the door close with my 6 month old in the stroller now on the elevator....this lead to complete panic and multiple people running to multiple floors, only to have the door open again on the same floor with everyone safe.......i tell this story because i wonder what the description on this board would have been like if someone had stumbled on to this seen of a parent frantically searching for an infant in a stroller they left on an elevator??.....again, it could be interpreted many ways, as a person just coming onto the scene would not understand the context of any of it....next thing ya know, your an example of horrible parenting. Which in this case we didn't need anyone to make us feel horrible we felt bad enough

I would think "poor woman has her hands full" and I'd recall the times I had experiences like that. Your situation is different than say someone who drops their 6 or 7 year old at the pool and comes back a few hours later thinking "well, my kid's a pretty strong swimmer and there's a lifeguard on duty if there's a problem so I can still get to the spa for my manicure".

My husband coaches little league and you'd be amazed at how many parents just drop their kids off, don't stay for the game and then come back whenever because they know that my husband would never leave the child alone. One time he waited almost 2 hours after the game ended for a father to come pick his kid up and the father never said sorry or thank you. Just waved from the car for his kid to get in.

 

[cornflkgrl]

People have a right to decide how they want to parent but that doesn't mean that they have a right to not parent at all. If a child is throwing food across the table at a sibling or at a parent or at a stranger at another table,the parent must stop them and tell them "no". There are certain societal norms, or manners, that every culture in every country accepts as basic human civility. You can paint the behavior with the brush of "culture" but I don't know any culture that accepts throwing food, hitting, spitting, biting, crawling under or walking on top of tables, kicking seats, throwing tantrums or screaming as acceptable behavior.

And if you teach a child how to behave properly from the start (the best way to do this is by example) there is no need to "scare" them or "punish" them because they will know.

I'm not talking about spanking or hitting or telling a child they are going to go to hell if they are bad. I'm talking about positive reinforcement. If they behave then they can continue to eat in restaurants and go to movies, if they don't behave then they don't go back until they are older and have learned how to behave.

A person can hope their child will grow up to make good choices and do good things for no other reason than because it's the right thing to do, common sense you called it, but a child cannot learn what is the right thing to do if they aren't taught what is right and wrong.

And where did I say I'm not teaching my kids or I don't think people should teach their kids or "not parent at all"? Again, you are taking these extreme situations (hitting people (strangers presumably) throwing food, spitting, etc.) and applying them to my statement that everyone is entitled to their style of parenting. I don't think anyone is arguing that attacking other people is a "parenting style." But throwing a tantrum? Yeah, kids do that. That is typical childhood behavior. That is not against the law or the "rules" of society. You put that in the same category as walking on table tops and hitting other people. I just don't agree with that. And are you saying our American culture does not accept a child "throwing a tantrum" as acceptable? It's against societal norms? Really? Okay. Maybe the culture where you live is different than where I live. I hear tantrums all the time from kids out at Walmart, Target, etc. It is what small children do when they don't yet have the skills to communicate their needs.

As far as your "positive reinforcement," you are talking about ABA. You are talking about withholding reward/ reinforcement/attention in order to deter negative behaviors and reinforce positive behaviors and hopefully manipulate the actions of the individual. I don't agree with ABA. I believe it goes against a person's natural instincts and mutes the feelings of achievement and pride that the person would otherwise feel about their own accomplishments but they become hyper focused on all these tangible rewards and/or the withholding of rewards/affection/attention. They don't get to make choices about things as they should. I value choice and personal feelings of achievement.

I have two kids with special needs, one with PTSD symptoms from the after-effects of ABA and being locked in a closet/seclusion room at school. I have reasons for the way I parent my children, as I'm sure other people have reasons for the way they parent. And I have a right to that. It doesn't mean I encourage my kids to throw food across tables, hit or spit. Different style of parenting does not mean no boundaries. But my children are people so they will do things at times that I can't "control." Just as I do things that other people can't control. Free will. You are free to continue parenting the way you do. And I will continue on as I do. Peace.

 

[maxiesmom]

[QUOTE="cornflkgrl, post: 55779278, member: 108126"

I have two kids with special needs, one with PTSD symptoms from the after-effects of ABA and being locked in a closet/seclusion room at school. I have reasons for the way I parent my children, as I'm sure other people have reasons for the way they parent. And I have a right to that. It doesn't mean I encourage my kids to throw food across tables, hit or spit. Different style of parenting does not mean no boundaries. But my children are people so they will do things at times that I can't "control." Just as I do things that other people can't control. Free will. You are free to continue parenting the way you do. And I will continue on as I do. Peace.[/QUOTE]

Your freedom to parent the way you see fits ends when it starts to negatively affect others around you. For example: If you are at home and decide to let your child have a screaming fit continue on until they fall asleep or quit it is one thing. If you are out in a restaurant that would be unacceptable to allow to continue.

 

[SillySallySews]

One day, the boy yet again had a falling down, kicking tantrum. His Mom immediately fell to the floor, kicking and yelling. You should have seen the boys face as he stopped his tantrum and looked at his mother like she had lost her mind. He got up and walked away. Later on, he tried the tantrum again, and again, his Mom laid on the floor and commenced kicking and screaming. He looked at her with a disgusted look, and from then on, he never threw another tantrum in our lodge again! Gotta hand it to the Mom for laying on the floor and going into a tantrum with lots of other people in the lodge too.

My MIL often tells the story of how she did this once when my husband was throwing a tantrum in the grocery store! He was in his 20's when I met him and he still remembered when she did it so it must've left an impression!

.....i remember the time my son loved to push the buttons on the elevator when he was 3 and he would run ahead of us so he could push the button first....this one day he ran onto the elevator because the door was open and as i ran after him the door closed on the elevator with him in it (BCV)....freaking the hell out, I ran downstairs to the next level to see if i could find him....Meanwhile the door opened back up on the floor my wife was on, and she rushed into the elevator to grab my son and pull him off with the baby in the stroller, as he cried she hugged him and took him off the elevator, only to have the door close with my 6 month old in the stroller now on the elevator....this lead to complete panic and multiple people running to multiple floors, only to have the door open again on the same floor with everyone safe.......i tell this story because i wonder what the description on this board would have been like if someone had stumbled on to this seen of a parent frantically searching for an infant in a stroller they left on an elevator??.....again, it could be interpreted many ways, as a person just coming onto the scene would not understand the context of any of it....next thing ya know, your an example of horrible parenting. Which in this case we didn't need anyone to make us feel horrible we felt bad enough

This is an awful situation and I can't imagine what you and your wife were going through! :-( I understand the point you are trying to make, and I do think sometimes the world tends to judge people unfairly when they are experiencing something overwhelming. But I also think your situation is very different from parents who just sit there blatantly ignoring bad behavior, or (worse) encouraging it.

 

[MammaMoe48]

And where did I say I'm not teaching my kids or I don't think people should teach their kids or "not parent at all"? Again, you are taking these extreme situations (hitting people (strangers presumably) throwing food, spitting, etc.) and applying them to my statement that everyone is entitled to their style of parenting. I don't think anyone is arguing that attacking other people is a "parenting style." But throwing a tantrum? Yeah, kids do that. That is typical childhood behavior. That is not against the law or the "rules" of society. You put that in the same category as walking on table tops and hitting other people. I just don't agree with that. And are you saying our American culture does not accept a child "throwing a tantrum" as acceptable? It's against societal norms? Really? Okay. Maybe the culture where you live is different than where I live. I hear tantrums all the time from kids out at Walmart, Target, etc. It is what small children do when they don't yet have the skills to communicate their needs.

As far as your "positive reinforcement," you are talking about ABA. You are talking about withholding reward/ reinforcement/attention in order to deter negative behaviors and reinforce positive behaviors and hopefully manipulate the actions of the individual. I don't agree with ABA. I believe it goes against a person's natural instincts and mutes the feelings of achievement and pride that the person would otherwise feel about their own accomplishments but they become hyper focused on all these tangible rewards and/or the withholding of rewards/affection/attention. They don't get to make choices about things as they should. I value choice and personal feelings of achievement.

I have two kids with special needs, one with PTSD symptoms from the after-effects of ABA and being locked in a closet/seclusion room at school. I have reasons for the way I parent my children, as I'm sure other people have reasons for the way they parent. And I have a right to that. It doesn't mean I encourage my kids to throw food across tables, hit or spit. Different style of parenting does not mean no boundaries. But my children are people so they will do things at times that I can't "control." Just as I do things that other people can't control. Free will. You are free to continue parenting the way you do. And I will continue on as I do. Peace.

I never said you aren't teaching your children or that you aren't teaching boundaries. I'm saying that there are some people who don't and there is no excuse, cultural or otherwise, that should be used to justify wild behavior. I'm sorry if you felt like I was judging you.

 

[MammaMoe48]

[QUOTE="cornflkgrl, post: 55779278, member: 108126"

I have two kids with special needs, one with PTSD symptoms from the after-effects of ABA and being locked in a closet/seclusion room at school. I have reasons for the way I parent my children, as I'm sure other people have reasons for the way they parent. And I have a right to that. It doesn't mean I encourage my kids to throw food across tables, hit or spit. Different style of parenting does not mean no boundaries. But my children are people so they will do things at times that I can't "control." Just as I do things that other people can't control. Free will. You are free to continue parenting the way you do. And I will continue on as I do. Peace.

Your freedom to parent the way you see fits ends when it starts to negatively affect others around you. For example: If you are at home and decide to let your child have a screaming fit continue on until they fall asleep or quit it is one thing. If you are out in a restaurant that would be unacceptable to allow to continue.[/QUOTE]
And if they don't stop, you leave.

 

[NYDisGuy]

But throwing a tantrum? Yeah, kids do that. That is typical childhood behavior. That is not against the law or the "rules" of society. You put that in the same category as walking on table tops and hitting other people. I just don't agree with that. And are you saying our American culture does not accept a child "throwing a tantrum" as acceptable? It's against societal norms? Really? Okay. Maybe the culture where you live is different than where I live. I hear tantrums all the time from kids out at Walmart, Target, etc. It is what small children do when they don't yet have the skills to communicate their needs.

So you don't consider respect for others as a general rule of society? I believe everyone in this post has pointed out extremes and since it's in the restaurant thread, alot of them were related to restaurants. If your kid decides to have a sudden outburst of screaming/crying in a restaurant, just saying "well he's a person and it's his way of communication" and letting them carry on in said restaurant is extremely rude and disrespectful to the rest of the patrons. You can parent the way you want but you can also take them out for fresh air so they can calm down and not affect the meals of others.

 

[MammaMoe48]

So you don't consider respect for others as a general rule of society? I believe everyone in this post has pointed out extremes and since it's in the restaurant thread, alot of them were related to restaurants. If your kid decides to have a sudden outburst of screaming/crying in a restaurant, just saying "well he's a person and it's his way of communication" and letting them carry on in said restaurant is extremely rude and disrespectful to the rest of the patrons. You can parent the way you want but you can also take them out for fresh air so they can calm down and not affect the meals of others.

And to add to your wisdom because I can't find the post you were replying to, a three year old may not have the tools to communicate but if you tell them no and remove them from the restaurant, they will learn not to throw tantrums when they are 6 or 7 or 10 or 12 and have the skills - because you would have instilled those skills in them early on.