I suspect Riviera must not be selling as well as they hoped it would

[summerw]

How is that bait and switch though? That owner will always be able to trade into other resorts. Nothing will ever change for their ownership.

I think that goes to the heart of Disney’s changes to their timeshare model. You buy to keep and use. You’ll be fine as long as that’s all you’re looking to do.

I agree with all you are saying.

Disney often benefits from the feelings of trust and family people have toward its brand. It swings both ways though. People are vocal when they feel their Disney family has wronged them. It wouldn’t be a legal standing, just a perception. Welcome home, you are restricted to the west wing.

 

[summerw]

I forgot to include, I understand it won't affect the direct buyer, but I think some people buy at least partially based on the resale value being there.

 

[Bing Showei]

I forgot to include, I understand it won't affect the direct buyer, but I think some people buy at least partially based on the resale value being there.

And that's exactly what Disney is trying to change. If a direct Riviera buyer knows enough to know what resale is when they buy in, it's on them to know exactly what they're buying into. Anyone buying a Riviera resale contract without fully understanding the explicit restrictions, has no place signing that contract.

Also, the sooner people can divorce themselves from the notion that Disney is anything more than a corporate behemoth who is beholden only to shareholders, the better. Any notion that there is a Disney family is pixie dust business that no one, especially a Disney timeshare owner, should be perpetuating.

 

[TexasChick123]

And that's exactly what Disney is trying to change. If a direct Riviera buyer knows enough to know what resale is when they buy in, it's on them to know exactly what they're buying into. Anyone buying a Riviera resale contract without fully understanding the explicit restrictions, has no place signing that contract.

Also, the sooner people can divorce themselves from the notion that Disney is anything more than a corporate behemoth who is beholden only to shareholders, the better. Any notion that there is a Disney family is pixie dust business that no one, especially a Disney timeshare owner, should be perpetuating.

I agree with all that you said here. DVC is a timeshare. Yes, it is attached to a theme park and used to be more "member friendly", but those days seem to be gone. We are still afforded a lot of flexibility with the point system versus the traditional fixed week system. Moreover, anyone is able to buy a fixed week via direct on any new property, starting back with VGF, I believe. If you travel the same week year after year, then this seems like the logical way to go. However, if you enjoy the flexibility of a points system, then you should just buy a certain number of points.

To be clear, I do not like the resale restrictions at all. I think they are a bad change because they may affect resale value, but I do understand why they implemented them. Look at it from DVD's point of view pre-2019 restrictions:

Potential Buyer: How much are CCV points?
Guide: $188 per point.
Potential Buyer: Why is resale so much cheaper at ~$140-$155pp?
Guide: Because you don't get membership extras like AP discounts and moonlight magic.
Potential Buyer: I have no use for those things as I go 1-2x per year and don't ever seem to be there during an event. I think I will save 25% or more and just go the resale route.
Guide:

Also remember, if no one buys direct, then there won't be any resale to pick up. As @Bing Showei said, they answer to shareholders. What makes money for the company regarding DVC? Direct sales not resales. They need to make the product better and more distinguishable from resale. This is all being stated by a resale-heavy owner BTW. Almost 90% of my points were bought via resale. How many people have said that they don't care about the restrictions up until the most recent round? Over and over again, we saw people post, "I would rather save thousands buying resale than buy direct with those perks." They were listening, and here's the result of it. The perks weren't enough to drive more people to direct, so here we are.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

One thing that did concern me about the kiosk conversation was that although I think the CM was playing a little clueless, I don’t think even she really understood completely about the restrictions.

I wonder how many people have purchased totally unaware this would happen to their contract if they resold. I would be fascinated to hear these sales pitches. If they’re not being very direct about it, I’d say some people will feel like it was a bait and switch. Since being able to trade between resorts has been an essential element of the “club” for so long, I can imagine people feeling very misled.

I agree that it's a substantial change to the product and I doubt DVC is outlining it....at all. It will be in the documents but we know that many buyers don't read every word of those. The company line will be that for the direct buyer nothing has changed. Oh - until you decide to sell. Then the product you own changes a LOT and is very different from what you purchased and not in an insignificant way such as not getting discounts on your sweatshirt purchase.

 

[crvetter]

I agree that it's a substantial change to the product and I doubt DVC is outlining it....at all. It will be in the documents but we know that many buyers don't read every word of those. The company line will be that for the direct buyer nothing has changed. Oh - until you decide to sell. Then the product you own changes a LOT and is very different from what you purchased and not in an insignificant way such as not getting discounts on your sweatshirt purchase.

The question would be for those that bought what did the product understanding checklist say? I would assume if they wanted to be upfront about the restrictions it should be listed on that document as that would be clearest and they go over each bullet point with you when signing.

 

[ScubaCat]

the sooner people can divorce themselves from the notion that Disney is anything more than a corporate behemoth who is beholden only to shareholders, the better. Any notion that there is a Disney family is pixie dust business that no one, especially a Disney timeshare owner, should be perpetuating.

Very well stated.

 

[zavandor]

Potential Buyer: How much are CCV points?
Guide: $188 per point.
Potential Buyer: Why is resale so much cheaper at ~$140-$155pp?
Guide: Because you don't get membership extras like AP discounts and moonlight magic.
Potential Buyer: I have no use for those things as I go 1-2x per year and don't ever seem to be there during an event. I think I will save 25% or more and just go the resale route.
Guide:

Potential Buyer: How much are DRR points?
Guide: $188 per point.
Potential Buyer: Why does resale cost half at ~$100pp?
Guide: Because you cannot book the other resorts, only DRR
Potential Buyer: wait a minute, do you mean the moment I sign I loose half the value of the contract? No thanks.
Guide:

 

[summerw]

And that's exactly what Disney is trying to change. If a direct Riviera buyer knows enough to know what resale is when they buy in, it's on them to know exactly what they're buying into. Anyone buying a Riviera resale contract without fully understanding the explicit restrictions, has no place signing that contract.

Also, the sooner people can divorce themselves from the notion that Disney is anything more than a corporate behemoth who is beholden only to shareholders, the better. Any notion that there is a Disney family is pixie dust business that no one, especially a Disney timeshare owner, should be perpetuating.

I agree with all of that too. I still think some people will feel that way. I wasn’t saying they would be justified, just that they would.

I agree about it being a corporation. I think it’s impossible not to, having grown up next to Disneyland with many family members working there during Walt and after. Some have refused to step in the parks since they worked there under Eisner.

Overall, we’ve been waiting to hit some financial milestones to purchase and now that we have, I feel very uncomfortable with the direction of DVC. Ironically the changes make me want to buy resale even more because I just can’t see paying Disney those extra direct dollars when they seem to have made a lot of devaluing decisions lately, the bungalows and cabins and all the restrictions are both big for me. In the end, even though I’d like the perks, I feel less inclined to give Disney the extra dollars a direct purchase would be.

 

[Mumof4mice]

And that's exactly what Disney is trying to change. If a direct Riviera buyer knows enough to know what resale is when they buy in, it's on them to know exactly what they're buying into. Anyone buying a Riviera resale contract without fully understanding the explicit restrictions, has no place signing that contract.

Also, the sooner people can divorce themselves from the notion that Disney is anything more than a corporate behemoth who is beholden only to shareholders, the better. Any notion that there is a Disney family is pixie dust business that no one, especially a Disney timeshare owner, should be perpetuating.

Agree that we need to de-pixiefy ourselves and those around us interested in our opinion on DVC.

The POS has always been harsh: Do not expect the continual existence of peripheral amenities (such as GF and the monorail for VGF), do not expect any resort to be added to the system, do not count on being able to rent or resale your points... Just because Disney hadn't done anything substantial until now, it's still a dangerous proposition to depend on their continued, non-enforceable good will.

Anyone looking to purchase - newbie or existing owner adding on - should only do so if DVC is still a "good deal" to them, assuming $0 resale.