I shouldnt be suprised at this point...

[AnaheimGirl]

Gay youth are two to three times more likely to commit suicide. Don't you think that constantly hearing that being gay is sinful contributes to this? Do you honestly believe that your position isn't having an effect on these kids?

Would you really rather have these kids die than love each other?

Apparently.

 

[Muziqal]

Obsessive? Who is tracking my posts and content? Of course that wouldnt be considered obsessive.


Either way you are going to comment. If I dont reply, I am a coward and if i do respond I am obsessive and a closet homosexual.

I guess it really pissed you off that I debunked your lies and half truths that you posted about Exodus because you turned away from the topic and started focusing on me.

But when you dont have anything of value to add, I guess the best thing is to attack the poster.

I will look forward to your updates about my post activity. It is very enthralling.

And when you have nothing of value to add to the rest of humanity, I guess you attack homosexuals on the internet...

Like I said, I'd love to meet this discernment or joeepcot in person. It would either validate my suspicions that they are true s or I'd find that they're much weaker individuals than they even appear to be here...in which case I'd feel nothing but pity for them.

Sad how they still love to shout this stuff from the mountain tops after how many pages...when if they were true Christians on a mission to "save", they'd realize, from the type of response they're getting, that they're not making any progress with anyone. Their Christian cause lacks some credibility and decency after all this...no?

 

[hamlet35_2000]

Here are my final thoughts on this thread and then I am off to the other parts of the board that actually talk about things related to Disney. This thread and everything in it can be essentially broken down into three things, the first one being homosexuality: You either disagree or you agree with the lifestyle. You either are one, are a supporter, or detractor. Second major theme is religion. You either are one religion or another, or belong to one sect or another, and you interpret the bible for your own good. The third and final conflict we have here is Acceptance vs. Hate. Plain and simple-you are on side or the other in terms of the first two conflicts. To some, this maybe a simplistic way of breaking things down, but sometimes it is necessary to simplify issues in order to move beyond them.

Let me deal first with how these issues affected me as I grew up. When I was growing up, my parents divorced when I was five, leading to issues of abandonment and low self esteem as I got older. I never fully trusted people for many years because I was always convinced that they would leave me and I would be left to fend for myself.
Those feelings have always been there for me, and it hasn't been until recently that I have found someone who I can trust enough to begin sharing them and moving on with my life. This person completes me and restores my faith in the human race. This person is the one I want to go to sleep with at the end of a hard day, the one I want to wake up with cradled in his arms in the morning, the one I want to have kids with and the one that I completely trust with my heart. I love this person, and nothing anyone says or does can take that love away from me. I am a man and he is a man, and we love each other.
I was in 7th grade when I realized I much preferred to look at my Social Studies teachers bright blue eyes rather than to learn about the Civil war. He was a gorgeous man, and I don't think it ever entered my mind that my thoughts were wrong or I was sinful in any way (I don't think ten year olds need to consider these things; they just are). I mention my Social Studies at this point just to show some that it wasn't a choice of being gay or being straight--it just was. Is this proof for some of you, probably not, but it was proof for me that I was gay, and I had no problems with being gay ever since. I love myself and love everything about myself, and once again nothing anyone says or does is going to change that.
A final thought about homosexuality and what someone has been calling “the gay agenda”. I honestly don’t know what the gay agenda is, so I can’t talk to that specifically, but I do know that I am truly one of the most boring people I have met, and I like it that way. My partner and I do not go to bars every weekend in drag, nor do we have huge parties where everyone is taking their clothes off. I have never been to an orgy, I have never had sex without loving that person, and I have never shoved my lifestyle down someone’s throat. I am a schoolteacher. I teach High school children, and I can proudly say that I have never tried to make my students believe one thing over another. Teachers want their students to have the knowledge and insight to make their own choices in life, and come to their own conclusions. Students are not getting gay marriage and gay rights shoved at them in school. Young people have different opinions because the world is changing, not because of any “gay agenda”.

Now on to religion: For me religion has always been a tough one. I don't hate Christians or anyone else for that matter. I don't hate period. But religion has always been a source of conflict for me, let me explain. My mother was Jewish and my Father was Roman Catholic. According to Jewish law, I am Jewish because my mother was Jewish, and my mother was constantly battling my father (after the divorce) on matters of religion. And I mean battling...lawyers and judges and subpoenas and court. My parents fought on every major Judeo-Christian or Jewish tradition or rite, and in the end neither of them won. When I was thirteen, we had what I like to call the "Battle of the Bar Mitzvah". It all came down to me and a judge, and the judge asked me what I wanted and I said: "I want to be left alone." I didn't want to be Jewish and hurt my father and I didn't want to be Roman Catholic and hurt my mother, so I choose neither-I choose to become my own person and form my own rules to stop all of the fighting and dragging me to church one Sunday and synagogue the next Saturday. I was done with it, and the judge ordered that I would not be able to go to either synagogue or church unless it was court ordered by him. To this day, that judge has not court ordered it. Sorry if I deal with that whole period of my life with humor, but it is sometimes the only way to get through things. I want to remember the good about my mother and father and not the fighting, so I don't look at the bad things they did to me and to each other, I look at the good things and when the bad things need to come up, I bring humor to them. So, here I was at age fourteen with no religion, and I didn't mind at that point. In fact, I didn't mind for many years until I got to college and realized that I had to have some thoughts on religion, and through trial and error (for a while I joined a Friday night to Sunday Bible study class) I formed my agnostic points of view. I accept God in my life, and love other people regardless of what they believe in. That in a nutshell is my religious philosophy and it works for me because I do not answer to anyone but God for my beliefs.

The third and final battle we have been fighting is the toughest one for me. It causes me so much pain to read some of these posts, and this is why this post is my final one. Some people in our society are in the mind set that people are either right or they are wrong. There is no acceptance or acknowledgement of another side or a different point of view. For my part, I truly believe that if you have a differing point of view than so be it. I don't have to have you as part of my life if you think that my lifestyle is "abnormal" and that what I do is "deviant". That is the choice I can make-to accept you for who you are and your beliefs, or to say, sorry that is too much for me to accept and not allow you to have a place in my life. That is not hate, and I would never think to call your lifestyle "abnormal" or "deviant", but some in our society think that they have this right because god tells them to police their own religion. Well, I don't need policing, my God loves me and understands me and accepts me, and once again nothing anyone says or does is going to change that fact. I do not answer to anyone else (well maybe my partner when I have eaten all of the Chubby Hubby ice cream). I know for a fact that certain individuals on this board do not see their own hateful remarks, but they are there and they do hurt some individuals on this board, me being one of them. I am constantly saddened by some of these individuals who have no idea what they are saying can and does hurt people. I am hurt and angered to the point that I have forgotten why I have come to the DIS boards in the first place-to talk about, get tips for, and get advice for my upcoming trip to WDW. That's it. I didn't come to debate my religion or my lifestyle. I came because I am a Disney fan. And yesterday, I found myself hating this board because I felt hurt and anger by certain individuals, and I came to realize rather quickly to just not go back to the thread.

So in the final reckoning of this enormously long post, as people we need to understand that words hurt. We may not mean them to, but in the end any kind of statements that use the words abnormal and deviant are bound to hurt someone. I have been saddened by some of the posts on this thread, but there are others that have made me cry in joy because they are accepting of my lifestyle and they show an understanding of what acceptance truly is: Acceptance is loving someone for what they truly are, and not looking for the bad in them, but if it's there (and I am sure it is there) still loving them. In the end we are put on this Earth for such a short amount of time, and I have decided that it is not worth it to try and win battles which are at the end of the day don't matter to me. AT the end of the day I know that I have a great man who comes home to me and loves me. I have a house and a dog and I cook dinner for the man that I have given my heart to. We are going to Disney at the end of July and we are looking forward to having the most magical time in the world. Until then I will continue loving who I choose to love, posting comments and getting suggestions in the other parts of the DIS boards for our upcoming trip to WDW, and be happy in the knowledge that I am loved-by friends, by God, and by my man.

 

[RickinNYC]

I am a Christian, and it really hurts me to see people use "Christianity" as a weapon against other people. Personally, I don't believe that homosexuality is a sin that would condemn someone to hell... but if it is, that's God's business. God is perfect, but people, ALL people, Christian or Agnostic or what have you, make mistakes. Because we are failable, I'm leaving the judgement of souls to God. All we can do is go out and love people, and spread that love so that people hear the story of Jesus. Yes, as a Christian, I believe that acceptance of Christ is what leads to heaven. Jesus accepted all people, even those that the religious society declared unclean sinners. Who are we to go against that? It is possible to be a Christian and openminded. By realizing that you're human and some things are just bigger than you, you can do God's work without becoming the person who pushes people away from God.

Rest assured singingpixie, that most of us are very, very aware that the two posters on this thread are very much not like most true Christians. We are very aware that they are very much like those that picket military funerals, etc... Don't ever worry that we think they are representative of an entire religion. Unlike them, we don't judge an entire community... because, well... that'd be incredibly ignorant wouldn't it?

 

[oelpa]

@musiqat i totally agree with you they have to be totally nutz but the sad thing is they are not even realising how wrong they are and how zealous all of their statements are....

but on the other hand they are quite entertaining aren't they, oh i love watching someone digging his own grave

 

[cardaway]

So in the final reckoning of this enormously long post, as people we need to understand that words hurt. We may not mean them to, but in the end any kind of statements that use the words abnormal and deviant are bound to hurt someone.

Your whole post was great but I wanted to comment on this part. The people who used those words, and other hurtful things like them, have been told as much in the past by people who did nothing to them but point out that their comments were in poor taste. Certainly not people they can dismiss because they have had issues wiht them in the past.

But they use them again and again without any regard for the feelings of those they are talking about. More than the words themselves, that speaks volumes.

If anybody doubts me, look it up.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Still waiting for an answer gentlemyn,

slavery --- morally wrong or a-okay?

 

[amykissangel]

If kids in school have chosen to be gay, I recommend loving counseling to get their lives back on track. You can help people find God's path without name calling or condemnation or stressing "sin."

Better God's perspective in our schools than man's opinion.

You actually make me want to cry as I read all of your posts. I can't even express to you how the cruelty of your words hurt people on the this board who are homosexual. My friend Matt chose the "righteous" way and, though he was gay, did not allow himself to enter into a relationship because God thought it was wrong. He tried to fill the void in his life with family, with friends, with the church. He went to counseling, he tried to "change."

If your thoughts of God are correct, God would have rewarded him and helped "change" him, but He didn't. Because you can't change an inborn trait. I was born heterosexual. If you told me I HAD to be homosexual, I couldn't do it. I couldn't have feelings that were unnatural to me. Just the same as all homosexuals, and my friend Matt, couldn't.

So instead, he committed suicide. Thanks to people like you who tell him God cannot love someone who doesn't repent his sins...even if they are "sins" he didn't choose and didn't want.

My cousin Jeff, one the of the brightest, most talented young men I know, is gay. He goes to church, he believes in God, and leads a good, honest, caring, kind, loving life. But he's tried to be "straight." He can't be attracted to a woman. He does not want to be a preist. And he doesn't want to live his life alone because he doesn't deserve that. So is he going to hell?

My God loves everyone who does good for others in this world. I don't have a God whose followers will go to the ends of the earth to prove a couple sentances in a book that was INTERPRETED by God's followers, and was not written by the Almighty himself.

I know, I know...you are reading this and not actually hearing anything I am saying. You already read each sentance and want to go through it point by point and tell me why I am wrong.

But I believe God might be a little dissappointed to know that one of his followers would rather spend his time condemning people of this world than going out and doing good in it.

Please, you know you're talking to gay individuals on this board. You know none of them are going to "change" because of your righteous posts. They are only insulted, hurt, and wondering what horrible things they've done to you...for they must have, if you keep hurting them like this.

So do the right thing...do what a good and loving God would want you to do. Stop hurting people and go and live your virtuous, moral, just, upright and honorable life. Because I don't think even God wants to hear your hurtful words anymore.

 

[Laura]

You actually make me want to cry as I read all of your posts. I can't even express to you how the cruelty of your words hurt people on the this board who are homosexual. My friend Matt chose the "righteous" way and, though he was gay, did not allow himself to enter into a relationship because God thought it was wrong. He tried to fill the void in his life with family, with friends, with the church. He went to counseling, he tried to "change."

If your thoughts of God are correct, God would have rewarded him and helped "change" him, but He didn't. Because you can't change an inborn trait. I was born heterosexual. If you told me I HAD to be homosexual, I couldn't do it. I couldn't have feelings that were unnatural to me. Just the same as all homosexuals, and my friend Matt, couldn't.

So instead, he committed suicide. Thanks to people like you who tell him God cannot love someone who doesn't repent his sins...even if they are "sins" he didn't choose and didn't want.

My cousin Jeff, one the of the brightest, most talented young men I know, is gay. He goes to church, he believes in God, and leads a good, honest, caring, kind, loving life. But he's tried to be "straight." He can't be attracted to a woman. He does not want to be a preist. And he doesn't want to live his life alone because he doesn't deserve that. So is he going to hell?

My God loves everyone who does good for others in this world. I don't have a God whose followers will go to the ends of the earth to prove a couple sentances in a book that was INTERPRETED by God's followers, and was not written by the Almighty himself.

I know, I know...you are reading this and not actually hearing anything I am saying. You already read each sentance and want to go through it point by point and tell me why I am wrong.

But I believe God might be a little dissappointed to know that one of his followers would rather spend his time condemning people of this world than going out and doing good in it.

Please, you know you're talking to gay individuals on this board. You know none of them are going to "change" because of your righteous posts. They are only insulted, hurt, and wondering what horrible things they've done to you...for they must have, if you keep hurting them like this.

So do the right thing...do what a good and loving God would want you to do. Stop hurting people and go and live your virtuous, moral, just, upright and honorable life. Because I don't think even God wants to hear your hurtful words anymore.

An excellent post. I'm sorry about your friend Matt, thinking he was such an abomination that he had to end his life. It's so sad.

Unfortunately, there are a number of homosexuals who chose to solve their problems that way.

 

[Aidensmom]

amykissangel - your post about your friend Matt brought tears to my eyes, I am so sorry he felt he had to do that.

 

[bananiem]

Very nice post, amykissangel.

 

[auntpolly]

Wow the Christian fudamentalist whakos have really declared war on the thread and i think it's hliarious they really disqualify themselves with their antiquated views. .... homosexuality is a sin.... no abortion (that's easy for a man to say)...

My new thing -- how do they feel about divorce? Ever been divorced? Have kids or anything that are divorced?

I'm just starting to notice people who pay so little attention to what Jesus did say was a sin, and so much attention to what he never said at all!

 

[MrVisible]

AT the end of the day I know that I have a great man who comes home to me and loves me. I have a house and a dog and I cook dinner for the man that I have given my heart to. We are going to Disney at the end of July and we are looking forward to having the most magical time in the world. Until then I will continue loving who I choose to love, posting comments and getting suggestions in the other parts of the DIS boards for our upcoming trip to WDW, and be happy in the knowledge that I am loved-by friends, by God, and by my man.

Well said. That was a wonderful post, and an elegant and dignified way of exiting this morass of a thread.

 

[RickinNYC]

An excellent post. I'm sorry about your friend Matt, thinking he was such an abomination that he had to end his life. It's so sad.

Unfortunately, there are a number of homosexuals who chose to solve their problems that way.

True. And others who would and do cheer whenever that happens.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

Wow! Another great post, amykissangel! You are very eloquent and it's obvious that you speak from the heart.

Please, you know you're talking to gay individuals on this board. You know none of them are going to "change" because of your righteous posts. They are only insulted, hurt, and wondering what horrible things they've done to you...for they must have, if you keep hurting them like this.

Sadly, I think they know full well to whom they are speaking, and that all they are doing is hurting people. They have been told many times before, yet they keep doing it, so it seems that this is precisely thier intention.

So do the right thing...do what a good and loving God would want you to do. Stop hurting people and go and live your virtuous, moral, just, upright and honorable life. Because I don't think even God wants to hear your hurtful words anymore.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

My new thing -- how do they feel about divorce? Ever been divorced? Have kids or anything that are divorced?
!

I bring that up and just get told it's too hot of a topic to discuss. What the heck??!!?!! I am a Christian married to a divorced man. Woo hoo we are adulterers!!!

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Obsessive? Who is tracking my posts and content? Of course that wouldnt be considered obsessive.


Either way you are going to comment. If I dont reply, I am a coward and if i do respond I am obsessive and a closet homosexual.

I guess it really pissed you off that I debunked your lies and half truths that you posted about Exodus because you turned away from the topic and started focusing on me.

But when you dont have anything of value to add, I guess the best thing is to attack the poster.

I will look forward to your updates about my post activity. It is very enthralling.

Come on, now.

You *have* to start to respond to the heart of the issue. Me and many others have brought up valid points, asked honest, thoughtful questions and pointed out inconsistencies.

You change the subject and then come here only to post about Rick counting your posts.

Should I start counting how many times you post without responding to any of the things so many of us have pointed out? It seems when you have nothing of value to add, you only respond to the posts that you think didn't add value either. If you feel his posts are so void of value, why do you choose to respond to them and not any of the things so many others have asked of you?

If you truly want to explain why you are justified in the opinions you choose to have, you are going to have to do better than this.

 

[NewJersey]

You actually make me want to cry as I read all of your posts. I can't even express to you how the cruelty of your words hurt people on the this board who are homosexual. My friend Matt chose the "righteous" way and, though he was gay, did not allow himself to enter into a relationship because God thought it was wrong. He tried to fill the void in his life with family, with friends, with the church. He went to counseling, he tried to "change."

If your thoughts of God are correct, God would have rewarded him and helped "change" him, but He didn't. Because you can't change an inborn trait. I was born heterosexual. If you told me I HAD to be homosexual, I couldn't do it. I couldn't have feelings that were unnatural to me. Just the same as all homosexuals, and my friend Matt, couldn't.

So instead, he committed suicide. Thanks to people like you who tell him God cannot love someone who doesn't repent his sins...even if they are "sins" he didn't choose and didn't want.

My cousin Jeff, one the of the brightest, most talented young men I know, is gay. He goes to church, he believes in God, and leads a good, honest, caring, kind, loving life. But he's tried to be "straight." He can't be attracted to a woman. He does not want to be a preist. And he doesn't want to live his life alone because he doesn't deserve that. So is he going to hell?

My God loves everyone who does good for others in this world. I don't have a God whose followers will go to the ends of the earth to prove a couple sentances in a book that was INTERPRETED by God's followers, and was not written by the Almighty himself.

I know, I know...you are reading this and not actually hearing anything I am saying. You already read each sentance and want to go through it point by point and tell me why I am wrong.

But I believe God might be a little dissappointed to know that one of his followers would rather spend his time condemning people of this world than going out and doing good in it.

Please, you know you're talking to gay individuals on this board. You know none of them are going to "change" because of your righteous posts. They are only insulted, hurt, and wondering what horrible things they've done to you...for they must have, if you keep hurting them like this.

So do the right thing...do what a good and loving God would want you to do. Stop hurting people and go and live your virtuous, moral, just, upright and honorable life. Because I don't think even God wants to hear your hurtful words anymore.

Amy, so sorry about your friend Matt. The story brought tears to my eyes. If only the world thought like you did.

 

[Saxsoon]

This is just sad now on this thread. I don't think anyone on BOTH sides realize how hateful some posts are. I will go on the record now, and state that if anything I said offended anyone, I apoligize. Thankfully only a few out of MANY that posted here don't agree with the injustice here. I liked what SingingPixie has posted. It has been posted ad nauseum on this thread, but I think it needs to posted a few more times to get to some people. It doesn't really get old to me.

There are two commandments from which all others flow. Love thy God with all your heart, and Love thy neighbor. You may think you are "saving" them, but all the rest of us hear is hate. If it is indeed a sin, why should you or any of us care. You (collective)have stated that you sin, but why is it this one takes upon it a life of its own. I know I have posted this many times, but it is needed a few more times. You have also stated that all sins are equal, but it seems to be blown out of preportion.

I will take the time to mention, that yes, I did think like them a month or two ago. Maybe not as zealous but still I thought that. But I did read some very good people on various threads that changed my mind. But yes, your mind can change, so it not unwinnable. Course, I may also not be as stubborn. And for someone to be more stubborn than me is saying something.

I too will leave this thread, it is really saddening to see all of the hate on both sides being spewed. Keep up the good fight. Peace and love will win in the end. Remember, it is only a matter of time.

 

[eclectics]

I'm just starting to notice people who pay so little attention to what Jesus did say was a sin, and so much attention to what he never said at all!

Wise words, as usual, auntpolly.