I shouldnt be suprised at this point...

[disney4us2002]

Oh, I will be discussing my decision with my priest (Episcopal's are priests, lol) but alas I attend church alone as my dh is a confirmed agnostic. None of my family (extended) is Episcopal - I found it suited me in 1996 and joined then. My dad's family is Southern Baptist and I don't think it's for me. I don't expect to find any church that I agree with on every principal nor do I expect to find a church advocating war, but hopefully not all of them recommend protesting or actively voting out a president I support.

 

[Saxsoon]

Well I am a Methodist, but it not as big on the rituals, actually it is pretty laid back. But I have never heard of the war or the other "big" issues brought up. Actually one of our pastors was, what is it called when you are a pastor in the military, over in Germany for a year. I know not Iraq, but that is the closest our church has ever come to the army or Iraq in general. And SHE was missed very much. Didn't hear her ever bring up Mother Jesus either for that matter lol. I can't say for other Methodist churches, but yeah.

Does that make any sense

 

[katytrott]

Most people's arguments are Levitical-law based, however, what does it say in the NT? Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. It also says that the entirety of the Law and the Prophets (which encompasses the references in post #300) are summed up in the 2 great commandments in the NT - "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." However, it also says that if you love God, you will keep His commandments, and the NT is explicit about what is sinful and disallowed. We are no longer under the law - it existed to show us that the Law can't save us, b/c nobody can follow it perfectly. That's why Jesus fulfilled the Law, b/c we couldn't do it perfectly, only a holy and righteous God could do that.

Just for the record, this is exactly what the majority of denominations believe. I know this because it was a subject that was discussed at a nationwide/multi-denominational Christian conference, called Spring Harvest that we went to last year.

Incidentely, it was lead by a Christian who was gay. He was born that way and for a time was a violent (literally) protester against Christianity. This all changed one day when he stormed a church who followed the Bible and not their own interpretation. He was not kicked out (even though he deserved to be arrested), and ended up giving his life to Jesus when a little old lady (God works in mysterious ways ) gently told him that he was a child of God's who loved him for who he was. He immediately knew that God loved him regardless of any of his sins. Obviously, he was still gay, but as he got closer and closer to God and with the non-judgemental support from the Christians around him, he found his desire for men had faded. He was living within God's heart for him. He is now married (to a woman) with a couple of kids and runs a support group for both Christian and non-Christian homosexuals, and knows/feels he is living as God originally intended him to be. He now teaches exactly what NCdisneyfan said here, because that is fact. He was shown this in practice, however, when the little old lady followed the NT instruction to "Love your neighbour as yourself".

My point is to show the theory of what NCdisneyfan said in practice. I'm not saying that we are all better off being straight, married with kids (however he and thousands of other Christians who were gay do say they are), but that if Churches/denominations followed God and his word, not their own desires, well....to put it bluntly .....it works. This guy followed God and his word, he didn't join a denomination that suited his desires, and his life is now radically changed, and in his words, not mine, for the better.

The majority of churches will show exactly this same non-judgemental behaviour that this chap recieved, not, as I feel a lot believe, that the "non-liberal" denominations will banish them from Christianity. I am sure many will have stories like that, and I am not surprised, but people who behave like that in the name of "religion" are not following Christ.

 

[snowwite]

Its more than caring about who shares a bed. It has to do with incrementalism.

I am going to get my thesaurus. I do not believe I have ever heard this word used in conversation.
I dont get what people are upset about. People cannot choose the hair color they will be born with, the eye color they will have , the height they will grow to or whether or not they will be homosexual. It amazes me just how many "loving" and "Christian" people are so quick to judge and so threatened by someone else's sexual orientation. My BIL is gay and I do not for one second think he made a "lifestyle choice",seriously who would choose to go through the harrassment and bigotry these people are subject to?
I think it is a step in the right direction to admit it is not a sin to be who you are.

 

[Saxsoon]

I will say this. We too are born with sin and that is the way we are. Have you ever lusted after another or their things. Have you wished ill on another person. Heck even lied. It is who we are. Who cares if homosexuality is indeed a sin because I believe Sin-be-gone falls right under Jesus' category. I do not think any less of homosexuals as I do myself. A sinner, nothing more, nothing less. Sin is who we are.

btw that was a really great post Katy.

 

[eclectics]

Oh, I will be discussing my decision with my priest (Episcopal's are priests, lol)

lol. Sorry, I knew that! Don't know why I said pastor. My old Lutheran one popped into my head. Good luck in your decision.

 

[eclectics]

Just for the record, this is exactly what the majority of denominations believe. I know this because it was a subject that was discussed at a nationwide/multi-denominational Christian conference, called Spring Harvest that we went to last year.

Incidentely, it was lead by a Christian who was gay. He was born that way and for a time was a violent (literally) protester against Christianity. This all changed one day when he stormed a church who followed the Bible and not their own interpretation. He was not kicked out (even though he deserved to be arrested), and ended up giving his life to Jesus when a little old lady (God works in mysterious ways ) gently told him that he was a child of God's who loved him for who he was. He immediately knew that God loved him regardless of any of his sins. Obviously, he was still gay, but as he got closer and closer to God and with the non-judgemental support from the Christians around him, he found his desire for men had faded. He was living within God's heart for him. He is now married (to a woman) with a couple of kids and runs a support group for both Christian and non-Christian homosexuals, and knows/feels he is living as God originally intended him to be. He now teaches exactly what NCdisneyfan said here, because that is fact. He was shown this in practice, however, when the little old lady followed the NT instruction to "Love your neighbour as yourself".

My point is to show the theory of what NCdisneyfan said in practice. I'm not saying that we are all better off being straight, married with kids (however he and thousands of other Christians who were gay do say they are), but that if Churches/denominations followed God and his word, not their own desires, well....to put it bluntly .....it works. This guy followed God and his word, he didn't join a denomination that suited his desires, and his life is now radically changed, and in his words, not mine, for the better.

The majority of churches will show exactly this same non-judgemental behaviour that this chap recieved, not, as I feel a lot believe, that the "non-liberal" denominations will banish them from Christianity. I am sure many will have stories like that, and I am not surprised, but people who behave like that in the name of "religion" are not following Christ.

Thousands of Christians who were gay????...... I'll let someone else field that one.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I am going to get my thesaurus. I do not believe I have ever heard this word used in conversation.
I dont get what people are upset about. People cannot choose the hair color they will be born with, the eye color they will have , the height they will grow to or whether or not they will be homosexual. It amazes me just how many "loving" and "Christian" people are so quick to judge and so threatened by someone else's sexual orientation. My BIL is gay and I do not for one second think he made a "lifestyle choice",seriously who would choose to go through the harrassment and bigotry these people are subject to?
I think it is a step in the right direction to admit it is not a sin to be who you are.

Homosexual acts are sins. God says so in the Bible. I'm sorry to hear that your BIL, like others, have made a bad lifestyle choice. Fortunately, with God's love and grace, people can overcome any bad decision.

I only feel threatened by the homosexuals when they bring their propaganda into our children's public schools.

Church leaders who stray from the Word of God are wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[jimmiej]

I will say this. We too are born with sin and that is the way we are. Have you ever lusted after another or their things. Have you wished ill on another person. Heck even lied. It is who we are. Who cares if homosexuality is indeed a sin because I believe Sin-be-gone falls right under Jesus' category. I do not think any less of homosexuals as I do myself. A sinner, nothing more, nothing less. Sin is who we are.

IA 100%. My whole issue in this discussion has been that a minister of the Gospel is telling people, "You can be a Christian AND keep your sinful life, all at the same time!" Paul wrote the Corinthians about this specific issue:

1 Corinthians 6

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

katytrott, a very similar incident happened in our church recently. I posted the full story on another thread a while back. I've said it before, the closer we get to Jesus, the more He reveals our sin to us (ALL sin, not just sexual). The Christian life is a journey.

 

[goofygirl]

Ugh. For the zillionith time: being gay is NOT a choice, and you cannot CURE it!

Funny how some "Christains" pick and choose what's a choice and what isn't. Like when an unplanned pregnancy is "God's will." Nevermind that you *chose* to have sex with inadequate birth control.

By the way, yes Episcopal churches have priests, and the term "Reverend", "Vicar" and "Rector" is also appropriate.

And I absolutely support the ECUSA's position on Iraq 100%! Then again, I'm rabidly anti-Bush, so this is easy for me to do. Its kind of shame someone would choose Bush over the Episcopal church. I don't get that at all.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Ugh. For the zillionith time: being gay is NOT a choice, and you cannot CURE it!

Funny how some "Christains" pick and choose what's a choice and what isn't.

God gives us free will but make His loving rules for our benefit very clear. We can choose to follow God's Word or not. Thankfully thru the blood of His Son Jesus we are forgiven all if we choose to accept the gift of salvation.

Sin is a choice. Temptation is not of God. Many people have overcome tough struggles with the sins of homosexuality, drugs, alcoholism, pornography, etc. Praise God. He never gives up on His children.

 

[goofygirl]

I only feel threatened by the homosexuals when they bring their propaganda into our children's public schools

Huh??

What kind of "agenda" are they "bringing?"

What, are they going into schools and "recruiting" the kids? Are you afraid some gay student or gay teacher (gasp!) may get into your kid's school and "turn" your kid gay?

 

[goofygirl]

It's an insult to the gay community to lump them in with drug addicts, alcoholics and pornographers/perverts.


As for "choice", well not every choice has a "cure". I don't believe being gay is a choice, anyway, but here is my point:

I chose not to bear children, ever. Since its a choice, can it be fixed? Nope. Nothing, and I mean nothing, would ever reverse this choice, no matter what kind of extreme "therapy" I went through. Likewise, people who say they desire children also say their *choice* can't be reversed. How about you, who chose to be Christian? Hey, I bet you can be an athiest or Satanist if the right "therapist" got a hold of you, right?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Huh??

What kind of "agenda" are they "bringing?"

What, are they going into schools and "recruiting" the kids? Are you afraid some gay student or gay teacher (gasp!) may get into your kid's school and "turn" your kid gay?

Why do schools see the need to say that homosexuality is OK when it is immoral? Or allow the "Day of Silence" with no counter protest?

Why not --
Say no to drugs.
Say no to premarital sex.
Say no to homosexuality.

Yes, kids are influenced by their peers and teachers to choose varying lifestyles, habits, activities, etc. As parents we need to guard our childrens' hearts and be very aware of what is being taught in their schools.

 

[disney4us2002]

...And I absolutely support the ECUSA's position on Iraq 100%! Then again, I'm rabidly anti-Bush, so this is easy for me to do. Its kind of shame someone would choose Bush over the Episcopal church. I don't get that at all...

That was uncalled for. That position was what tipped the scale for me. Try this: tonight the ECUSA's position has been reversed and now they stand behind Bush and want you to go out and raise money for his causes, protest the anti-war protesters, etc. How is that? Do you want to be told how to feel, vote, or where to spend your money?

Religion is a personal choice, much as parenting. How would you feel if I said it's a shame you'll never know the joy of being a mother?

 

[discernment]

Ugh. For the zillionith time: being gay is NOT a choice, and you cannot CURE it!

Funny how some "Christains" pick and choose what's a choice and what isn't. Like when an unplanned pregnancy is "God's will." Nevermind that you *chose* to have sex with inadequate birth control.

By the way, yes Episcopal churches have priests, and the term "Reverend", "Vicar" and "Rector" is also appropriate.

And I absolutely support the ECUSA's position on Iraq 100%! Then again, I'm rabidly anti-Bush, so this is easy for me to do. Its kind of shame someone would choose Bush over the Episcopal church. I don't get that at all.

UGH!!! For the zillionith time: Show me irrefutable medical and/or scientific proof that homosexuality is inborn.

Do you discount people who have turned from their homosexual lifestyles?

And why do people choose to enter a lifestyle choice in which they will experience hardships? I dont know. Why do we all make choices that we know will result in harmful consequences? Is it because we give into our fleshly desires and inborn sin nature and then rationalize and justify our sinful acts? Perhaps.


Oh, there is an agenda and it is working. Just look at the polls about gay marriage and you will see the support growing in the younger demographics because of the homosexual agenda to normalize their behavior is working.

That is why many people pull their kids out of public schools. God forbid you mention Jesus in a school but the homosexual agenda and normalization gets a free ride in our public schools. AH, but thats another topic for another time. Sorry for the side track.

 

[hamlet35_2000]

Uuggh.... this was debated by the same people on the Gay Board.... I have yet to hear what the Gay Agenda is... does anyone really know or care? My only agenda is in a month I am going to Disney and having a wonderful time with partner...and we are planning to hold hands in the MK and we might even ride Dumbo together

The hatred of gays and the bigotry behind some people who call themselves Christians is not really a Disney community topic

But I do enjoy a good show....

 

[goofygirl]

How would you feel if I said it's a shame you'll never know the joy of being a mother?

That's been said to me many times, and I really don't give a damn.

Do you discount people who have turned from their homosexual lifestyles?

Yes I do. I think these "cured" homosexuals are just suppressing their desires and living a lie.

Oh, there is an agenda and it is working. Just look at the polls about gay marriage and you will see the support growing in the younger demographics because of the homosexual agenda to normalize their behavior is working.

There's classes about gay marriage in public schools? That's news to me! And do you really think you can shield your child from gays by sending them to private/parochial/home school? Unless you lock them in yor house for life, they WILL come in contact with gay people and the "agenda" eventually, like it or not.

What the polls say to me is that the youth of America is more open minded that the previous generation. Good for them!

 

[discernment]

Uuggh.... this was debated by the same people on the Gay Board.... I have yet to hear what the Gay Agenda is... does anyone really know or care? My only agenda is in month I am going to Disney and having a wonderful with partner...and we are planning to hold hands in the MK and we might even ride Dumbo together

The hatred of gays and the bigotry behind some people who call themselves Christians is not really a Disney community topic

But I do enjoy a good show....

Thinking that homosexuality is sinful, wrong, and a choice does not equate to hate and bigotry.

 

[goofygirl]

My only agenda is in month I am going to Disney and having a wonderful with partner...and we are planning to hold hands in the MK and we might even ride Dumbo together

You mean you're not going to recruit people for your team and hand out leaflets about gay marriage?