I need help making a Kindergarten decision

[jellybeans0607]

50% of the class could have been in K last year according to the cutoff, so 50% were redshirted. Most of those were only redshirted one year so they turned six either just before school started or Between Ag 5th when we started and the sept 1 cutoff. They were all close to the same age because so many parents kept them back. 2 of them sat out 2 years. We had 2 7 year olds and 2 5 year olds in March. Surely you can see how that would be an issue? The birthdays are posted on a huge timeline in the room, so everyone sees them everytime we go into the room. They use it as part of thier calendar lesson. It would be hard to spend any time at all in the clasroom and not know the kids birthday month, plus we were invited to 13 out of 15 parties. Mabye it is a curriclium difference, because what our K teachers are seeing is just the opposite. The young ones do just fine, but the older ones get bored and start acting out. Anyone who can already read is bored for the first quater at least because those who can read typically know numbers to 100, the value of money, nad most of the other material coverds first quarter.

It sounds like your teachers are very old school, they have their curriculum and buy golly that is what they are teaching. I have known teachers like that. It's too bad that they aren't rainbowing their classes. That was the way it was when I was a child, they didn't sway from their curriculum and didn't have the knowledge neccesary to teach to a variety of kids in different levels of education. I'm sorry, that must be difficult for you.
Todays teachers are better equipped. We have learned form charter schools and montessory schools that we were wrong. That kids aren't all going to come in and leave with the same knowledge. That actually having these kids who are a little more advanced is an advantage to the other kids. So we utilize them as such. We have whats called "model students" and they help the other kids. Kids, especially in the K-3rd range respond so well to kids their own age teaching them and guiding them. They really love to have those kids read to them and sit to help them with their writing. We also do mentor programs with kids in older grades. For instance I have kids in my 3rd grade class that go into the 1st grade class to mentor.
I would urge you to find a charter school that can better deal with kids who are a little advanced. You have said yourself that your daughter is bored, well she shouldn't be. Maybe she is just not in the right environment to challenge her.

 

[princessmom29]

Does your child go to a public school? Because if she does your school can not legally do that. The school actually has absolutely no right to force kids, not yet in school, to come in for testing. There are laws that enforce kids to be in school already in place.
You are the only teacher I have met, though you don't really count because I don't really know you, who is so against red shirting. I also find your reasoning to be quite odd and it makes me wonder your actual intentions on this thread.
You do need to focus solely on your child education. I'm sorry but this "I do whats best for everyone" is not going to get your child very far. Which is why we have AP classes, we know that each child needs to get the most out of themselves and not be held back by a classroom.
I am surprised that as a teacher yourself you hold the opinion that kids learn as a whole. They don't, each child is learning at their own pace with in the classroom. Each parent should also be teaching their child at home, which is completely individualized and shows no regard for the rest of the class. I have to say I am left perplexed by your attitude that your child should be held back by her class because that is whats best for them.
What do you teach and how long have you been teaching?

DD goes to private school.

I do get that learing is individualized and that every child learns differntly. That is part of what makes teaching a challenging profession. I am not saying that every child learns the same, but what iI am saying is why make an already difficult job more so by introducing and even broader range of abilities just to do so. Holding a child who is ready for school back means tha they will be cognitavely ahead of everyone else in the room by a fair margin, and will introduce an even broader range of ability levels into an already varied classroom. I don't understand why we as parents would want to do that. AP classes are a perfect example. Those students are tracked OUT of a regular classroom based on their ability level. It removes some of the ability range from that regular clasroom, allowing the teacher to focus more on the middle range studnets she has in the room. It allows her to narrow her focus to what those students need, without having to challnge kids who are light years ahead of the rest of the group.It also pulls the high level lstudnets into one clasroom where thier needs can be better met. Narrowing the age range in Elementary school clasrooms would go a long way toward doing just that. So would tracking elementary school students based on ability. We had A, B, and C classes for every grade. They were divided based on ability. We basically had and honors group, a regular group, and a group needing special help. It was much easier to meet the needs of everyone in the clasroom when the ability range was narrowed. Because the way in which students learn is already so varied, I feel that introducing kids who are actually supposed to be a grade ahead, and perfectly capable of being there makes it even more difficult for the teacher to meet the needs of all of the different types of learners she has.

I teach honors chemistry and physics and have been teaching High School 5 years. I taught pre-K as I worked my way through my degree for the 4 years before that. My seniors have already graduated so I am only teaching one class right now, hence the free time.

 

[jellybeans0607]

DD goes to private school.

I do get that learing is individualized and that every child learns differntly. That is part of what makes teaching a challenging profession. I am not saying that every child learns the same, but what iI am saying is why make an already difficult job more so by introducing and even broader range of abilities just to do so. Holding a child who is ready for school back means tha they will be cognitavely ahead of everyone else in the room by a fair margin, and will introduce an even broader range of ability levels into an already varied classroom. I don't understand why we as parents would want to do that. AP classes are a perfect example. Those students are tracked OUT of a regular classroom based on their ability level. It removes some of the ability range from that regular clasroom, allowing the teacher to focus more on the middle range studnets she has in the room. It allows her to narrow her focus to what those students need, without having to challnge kids who are light years ahead of the rest of the group.It also pulls the high level lstudnets into one clasroom where thier needs can be better met. Narrowing the age range in Elementary school clasrooms would go a long way toward doing just that. So would tracking elementary school students based on ability. We had A, B, and C classes for every grade. They were divided based on ability. We basically had and honors group, a regular group, and a group needing special help. It was much easier to meet the needs of everyone in the clasroom when the ability range was narrowed. Because the way in which students learn is already so varied, I feel that introducing kids who are actually supposed to be a grade ahead, and perfectly capable of being there makes it even more difficult for the teacher to meet the needs of all of the different types of learners she has.

I teach honors chemistry and physics and have been teaching High School 5 years. I taught pre-K as I worked my way through my degree for the 4 years before that. My seniors have already graduated so I am only teaching one class right now, hence the free time.

If it's a private school how can the force kids who haven't even applied yet to test? They don't even know which kids will be going there.
We no longer take our AP kids out of the classrooms in the elementary age. In high school yes obviously we do, but in primary school we are now seeing the advantage to kids of all different levels in the same classes. We use things like rainbowing to individualize their experience. Our kids now in the third grade level do leave for their writing class, but before this year we have integrated them. It works well. It makes sense that in a private school you aren't experiencing that. Private schools do tend to be more rigid about staying with their tried and true curriculums.
Not all teachers of primary school students have a difficult time teaching to different learners. In fact with these new techniques we are finding that kids are learning from them.
But, like I said before, red shirting is hardly happening at the rate that your school is experiencing. Most kids go to K because they are a specific age. It is not the normal parent that says, wait is my kid really ready for this.

 

[Mkrop]

This is far closer to what we see then what some of the other replies have insinuated. We are almost always spending more time helping the kids that are behind rather then the ones that are ahead. In fact we use those students that are ahead to help us. Helping us, helps them.

Then maybe schools/school districts need to reevaluate the age parameters. Maybe schools should be changing start dates but then again someone is ALWAYS going to be the youngest, it is just a matter of where.

It may be a regional thing but redshirting is big here and many do it. I know the kids bdays in my sons' classes because they announce them each morning, and then you get the bday invite that says "Come to Johnny's 8th bday" and he is in first grade, and the next week you get the invite for Susie's bday that says" Come to Susie 7th bday" Both are June bdays!

And so far in oldest son's class, it may be a coincidence but all the trouble makers (not bad kids but certainly disruptive and headed to the prinicpal's office a lot) are all the boys who were redshirted. Not statitical data I know but certainly real life here.

And to me as a parent, if I do care about the welfare of my child's individaul education I would have to care about the makeup of the classroom.

 

[princessmom29]

It sounds like your teachers are very old school, they have their curriculum and buy golly that is what they are teaching. I have known teachers like that. It's too bad that they aren't rainbowing their classes. That was the way it was when I was a child, they didn't sway from their curriculum and didn't have the knowledge neccesary to teach to a variety of kids in different levels of education. I'm sorry, that must be difficult for you.
Todays teachers are better equipped. We have learned form charter schools and montessory schools that we were wrong. That kids aren't all going to come in and leave with the same knowledge. That actually having these kids who are a little more advanced is an advantage to the other kids. So we utilize them as such. We have whats called "model students" and they help the other kids. Kids, especially in the K-3rd range respond so well to kids their own age teaching them and guiding them. They really love to have those kids read to them and sit to help them with their writing. We also do mentor programs with kids in older grades. For instance I have kids in my 3rd grade class that go into the 1st grade class to mentor.
I would urge you to find a charter school that can better deal with kids who are a little advanced. You have said yourself that your daughter is bored, well she shouldn't be. Maybe she is just not in the right environment to challenge her.

I don't know how you go all of that from what I said, but it is truly not the case. I said that hey were having to go outside the curriclium more and more, not that they are not doing it. The argument is that while it would still be necessary to challenge the advanced children in the room even without redshirting, the amount of time spent challenging children who really belong a grade ahead of where they are is strating to adversly effect the " middle of the road" kids. We don't have charter schools in Alabama. There are magnet schools, but none of them are more advanced than the school DD is currently in. Our teachers do what you are talikng about with mentor students. We have both 8th grade and 4th grade students donig this with K. When I said DD is bored I meant bored with the material that is part of the regular class. We get extra stuff for her. She brings home a 1 st grade reading activity every day for us to do at home, and the teacher goes over it with her the next day. She is in the group that gets extra math instruction every day as well. All ofthe kids go to science lab, music, art, computer, and Spanish weekly. She is enjoying those as well. Many students in her class have moved on to first grade work, either because they should have been in first grade last year or becasue they are just advanced. Placing children corrctly according to age would have made this group a lot smaller and it would have taken less of the teacher's time away from other students. I am not asying at all that they should not be helping those advanced studnets, jsut thatwe shouldn't be adding to that group by retaining students who could have been in the next grade. I have no intereset in montessori. I think montessori is NOT the way to teach children and leads to serious skill gaps the older they get. We are using a montessori based sunday school at church with is doing absolutely NOTHING for DD. She is in a class of 3-6 year olds and everything is really way to basic for her, because otherwise it would be way over the heads of the 3 year olds. Mabye it will be better in the fall when she moves into the next group.

 

[princessmom29]

If it's a private school how can the force kids who haven't even applied yet to test? They don't even know which kids will be going there.
We no longer take our AP kids out of the classrooms in the elementary age. In high school yes obviously we do, but in primary school we are now seeing the advantage to kids of all different levels in the same classes. We use things like rainbowing to individualize their experience. Our kids now in the third grade level do leave for their writing class, but before this year we have integrated them. It works well. It makes sense that in a private school you aren't experiencing that. Private schools do tend to be more rigid about staying with their tried and true curriculums.
Not all teachers of primary school students have a difficult time teaching to different learners. In fact with these new techniques we are finding that kids are learning from them.
But, like I said before, red shirting is hardly happening at the rate that your school is experiencing. Most kids go to K because they are a specific age. It is not the normal parent that says, wait is my kid really ready for this.

they have a pre-K program. Typically there are very few "outside" applications. The vast majority of students come from K4 into K. They are rewording the literature to open the application window tho those turning 5 between x date and y date. Applications will only be accepted for children who meet the age parameters. It is not set in stone yet that this will be policy, but there are many on the board pushing for it. I obviously think it is a good idea as well.

 

[dizneechic]

Did you seriously read either one of these links you provided?? I did and neither states what you did about the "norm". I did find something quite interesting about it though.

http://www.education.com/reference/article/Ref_Academic_Young/
"Academic redshirting for young children refers to the practice of postponing entrance into kindergarten of age-eligible children in order to allow extra time for socioemotional, intellectual, or physical growth. This kind of redshirting is most often practiced in the case of children whose birthdays are so close to the cut-off dates that they are very likely to be among the youngest in their kindergarten class."
How does that not address what I referred to as typically the norm? Of course you have extremes in any circumstance, but the typical family that chooses to redshirt a child is one who is closer to the cut off than a full YEAR from the cut off.

Long-term Effects. Proponents of redshirting often point out that there is no definitive evidence to show that redshirting harms children in the long term. However, Byrd et al. (1997) found that adolescents whose school entry had been delayed exhibited more behavioral problems than their classmates. Moreover, in light of evidence of a higher use of special education by redshirted youths, there is a great deal of speculation that many individuals who were redshirted as kindergartners may have had special needs that were misdiagnosed as immaturity and that should have been treated by some form of direct intervention other than delayed entry (May et al., 1995; Graue & DiPerna, in press).
That is interesting and something parents need to look at as well.

And yes a child with special needs redshirted or not will be a child with special needs. So regardless of their entry into K-5, they would require the services, redshirting does not cause the issues, but it may make them stand out more by having an older child socially/behaviorally out of place amongst their peers. But quite frankly no matter what class that child was in (age appropriate or retained) that child more often than not would stand out.

As for other interesting facts in those links:
The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) reports that academic redshirting occurs at the rate of about 9% per year among kindergarten-age children (West, Meek, & Hurst, 2000). Redshirting has traditionally been more common in affluent communities and for children attending private schools, although some scholars speculate that there may have been a recent increase in certain public school districts (Brent et al., 1996). According to NCES, boys are more often redshirted than girls, and children born in the latter half of the year are more likely to be redshirted than those born earlier.
Exactly what everyone in this thread has been stating. Redshirting is NOT the majority, this article says 9% (I think it may be a little higher now 10 years post this statistic), in my sons class it is currently 12% of the children. 12% does not a majority make.
Redshirting may be a response to demands for a higher level of school readiness (Graue & DiPerna, in press; May et al., 1995). In a national survey, teachers indicated that 48% of their students were not ready for the current kindergarten curriculum (NCEDL, 1998). Alarmingly high percentages of teachers indicated that half of their students lacked important skills, including "following directions" (46%), "academic skills" (36%), and the ability to "work independently" (34%). In light of such data, many scholars suggest that academic curricula are not appropriate for young children (Graue & DiPerna, in press; May et al., 1995; Shepard & Smith, 1988).
THAT to me is alarming. 48% of K students are not ready for the current K curriculum?! And significant percentages of students appeared not to have the readiness skills in other areas. Sure there are larger numbers of students who are doing just fine, but if a parent suspects their child isn't ready, why would we willingly set them up for frustration and failure? (Oh wait.. maybe for the greater good... )
Immediate Effects. Research on academic redshirting suggests that in the short term, redshirting (1) raises the child's academic achievement (math, reading, general knowledge) and conduct on par with or above that of younger classmates (West, Denton, & Germino-Hausken, 2000); (2) increases the child's confidence in social interactions and popularity among classmates (Spitzer et al., 1995);
Sounds like redshirting accomplishes exactly what parents set out to do - especially in the short term. This isn't necessarily about long term implications as children tend to average out as the grades progress (and classes diversify more to meed individual needs), but short term (early years) we want or children to have the confidence needed to succeed long term, and if they are better able to handle the classroom work/environment/social expectations by starting a little later than so be it!
Teachers are well equipped in how to differentiate their instruction, regardless of age they always have multiple levels of children in their room. I don't think ANY parent expects a teacher to instruct an individual child at a level above the grade the child is currently assigned. Teachers simply add more depth in the subject area if a grouping of children (redshirted or not) are able to handle it, or they simplify the subject matter to a degree for those who can't handle it, this happens in all classrooms regardless of the ages of the children.

 

[jellybeans0607]

I don't know how you go all of that from what I said, but it is truly not the case. I said that hey were having to go outside the curriclium more and more, not that they are not doing it. The argument is that while it would still be necessary to challenge the advanced children in the room even without redshirting, the amount of time spent challenging children who really belong a grade ahead of where they are is strating to adversly effect the " middle of the road" kids. We don't have charter schools in Alabama. There are magnet schools, but none of them are more advanced than the school DD is currently in. Our teachers do what you are talikng about with mentor students. We have both 8th grade and 4th grade students donig this with K. When I said DD is bored I meant bored with the material that is part of the regular class. We get extra stuff for her. She brings home a 1 st grade reading activity every day for us to do at home, and the teacher goes over it with her the next day. She is in the group that gets extra math instruction every day as well. All ofthe kids go to science lab, music, art, computer, and Spanish weekly. She is enjoying those as well. Many students in her class have moved on to first grade work, either because they should have been in first grade last year or becasue they are just advanced. Placing children corrctly according to age would have made this group a lot smaller and it would have taken less of the teacher's time away from other students. I am not asying at all that they should not be helping those advanced studnets, jsut thatwe shouldn't be adding to that group by retaining students who could have been in the next grade. I have no intereset in montessori. I think montessori is NOT the way to teach children and leads to serious skill gaps the older they get. We are using a montessori based sunday school at church with is doing absolutely NOTHING for DD. She is in a class of 3-6 year olds and everything is really way to basic for her, because otherwise it would be way over the heads of the 3 year olds. Mabye it will be better in the fall when she moves into the next group.

Ok...so I need to end this conversation with you. You keep flip flopping where your child is int he class. It seems you will make your child to be whatever is convenient for that conversation. Which leaves you less then credible, sorry. You have been complaining all long that it is unfair that there are older kids who need to be taught 1st grade work...yet now your daughter IS that kid. So what are you complaining about? Wait...don't answer that question because I'm done, I'm sure you'll twist in in some other way.
I wish your child well inspite of all these "problem" older children....have a great day.

 

[imthatgirl]

Ok...so I need to end this conversation with you. You keep flip flopping where your child is int he class. It seems you will make your child to be whatever is convenient for that conversation. Which leaves you less then credible, sorry. You have been complaining all long that it is unfair that there are older kids who need to be taught 1st grade work...yet now your daughter IS that kid. So what are you complaining about? Wait...don't answer that question because I'm done, I'm sure you'll twist in in some other way.
I wish your child well inspite of all these "problem" older children....have a great day.

lol, I had the same problem. It's best to just walk away. The OP has made her decision, and most of us think she has made a great decision.

 

[tartemis]

I don't get it.

-- So you redshirt your kid so that they will not be one of the youngest kids?Ω SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE YOUNGEST. So now, some other parent's kid is the youngest. What should that parent do? What if that parent doesn't want their kid to be the youngest? Should they redshirt, too? Wait, but now some other kid is the youngest. Should they redshirt, too? Oh, Wait, now some other kid is the youngest . . .

-- As a woman, I also take offense that it is mostly boys that we are trying to give the "advantage," too. Poor, Johnny isn't ready. Yet, men make more money, have more positions of powers and graduate in more difficult disciplines. Is redshirting a cause of that? (LOL, I also think it has something to do with how women tend to coddle their boys, but that is a whole different thread.)

-- some on here have defended redshirting by saying things like they "rainbow" the curriculum to take into account the greater ability of the older students. If you can "rainbow" up, you can "rainbow" down. So why would you advocate for redshirting?

-- Finally, these idea that you should put your child before anybody else, no matter what, is what is creating our self-centered society. Maybe instead of trying to figure out what will be easiest for your child, you should teach your child how to overcome struggles -- you would actually be doing your child a greater service.

 

[dizneechic]

... 2 of them sat out 2 years. We had 2 7 year olds and 2 5 year olds in March. Surely you can see how that would be an issue?

So do you really think the OP's question and a majority of this discussion is about parents who are retaining their children by TWO years? Surely YOU can see that is an extreme exception and not the normal practice of redshirting. TWO years is extreme and easily explains why your perception of some children needing a few extra months (not 2 years!!) is so skewed.

So would tracking elementary school students based on ability. We had A, B, and C classes for every grade. They were divided based on ability. We basically had and honors group, a regular group, and a group needing special help. It was much easier to meet the needs of everyone in the clasroom when the ability range was narrowed.

What a HORRIBLE thing to do to students! I agree separating out by ability for lessons and certain areas (reading groups, math groups, writing groups) but the overall classroom should have a broad range of students so they all learn to respect everyone for who and what they are vs the smart class, the normal class and the stupid class (to A,B,C it out for how my 8 y/o "smart" child would perceive it). Granted in theory it would seem "easier" for the teacher, but a child who excels in reading can also be way behind in math and vice versa. Children are not all 1 thing or another. Classrooms need to be diverse to meet the needs of all children and the teachers easily can adapt subject matters/learning groups as needed.

We no longer take our AP kids out of the classrooms in the elementary age. In high school yes obviously we do, but in primary school we are now seeing the advantage to kids of all different levels in the same classes. We use things like rainbowing to individualize their experience...Not all teachers of primary school students have a difficult time teaching to different learners. In fact with these new techniques we are finding that kids are learning from them..

This is exactly how it is in our district and is a positive environment for kids at all levels to learn from.

Placing children corrctly according to age would have made this group a lot smaller and it would have taken less of the teacher's time away from other students. I am not asying at all that they should not be helping those advanced studnets, jsut thatwe shouldn't be adding to that group by retaining students who could have been in the next grade.

I would be happy that there is a "group" that my child could relate to. Maybe without the age swing in the classroom your dd would have been the only one (throwing out a hypothetical here, not saying it's the reality) and your teacher would have had a harder time finding the extras for JUST your dd. But since there is a group it's easier to differentiate for a group and the students have peers on the same academic level so they can do more advanced work together.

 

[imthatgirl]

I don't get it.

-- So you redshirt your kid so that they will not be one of the youngest kids?Ω SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE YOUNGEST. So now, some other parent's kid is the youngest. What should that parent do? What if that parent doesn't want their kid to be the youngest? Should they redshirt, too? Wait, but now some other kid is the youngest. Should they redshirt, too? Oh, Wait, now some other kid is the youngest . . .

-- As a woman, I also take offense that it is mostly boys that we are trying to give the "advantage," too. Poor, Johnny isn't ready. Yet, men make more money, have more positions of powers and graduate in more difficult disciplines. Is redshirting a cause of that? (LOL, I also think it has something to do with how women tend to coddle their boys, but that is a whole different thread.)

-- some on here have defended redshirting by saying things like they "rainbow" the curriculum to take into account the greater ability of the older students. If you can "rainbow" up, you can "rainbow" down. So why would you advocate for redshirting?

-- Finally, these idea that you should put your child before anybody else, no matter what, is what is creating our self-centered society. Maybe instead of trying to figure out what will be easiest for your child, you should teach your child how to overcome struggles -- you would actually be doing your child a greater service.

It had nothing to do with age. The majority red short their kids in K so that they can start K when they are ready. Now when you start talking about highschool aged kids redshirting, thats when you talk about keeping kids back so they can be older and bigger.
I don't see why, as a a woman, you would be offended that a 5yo wasn't ready for K yet. That seems so bizarre to me. Seriously, these 5 yos aren't trying to take your jobs, lol.
Of course you can "rainbow down",,,but I still don;t see why I would send my chidl to school when he isn't ready.
I'm sorry but it's a ridiculous statement to say that by me having my child wait until he is ready for school, that I am created a self centered child. Pure ridiculousness. My child was born 3 days before the cut off date, yes it would be tough for him to start school a year younger then the rest of the class. As a parent you make decisons based on what is best for your child everyday. If you arent' then you're not doing your job.

 

[brymolmom]

I was so going to stay out of this, I really was. We leave in a few hours for the happiest place on earth...but
I have to call you out.
There is NO WAY YOU WOULD sacrifice your child for the good of the whole, if you really felt they needed an extra year! NO WAY!! And for you to claim you would is just plain silly.
I think every teacher would be thrilled if the parents concentrated SOLELY on their childs needs, thats MY concern....MY CHILD!!! I don't really give a darn how the rest of the class does, I care about MY child, and HER future.
I have said it a million times WE HAVE NEVER TALKED TO A TEACHER WHO SAID 'REDSHIRTING" is bad...EVER!! And we did extensive research on this topic.
And, you can find evidence for anything you want.
We found much evidence to show that the younger a child is when they start K, the more likely they are to drop out, to do drugs, to drink, have sex, not go onto college, even suicide.
I understand the way statistics work, I understand with the internet you can find sites to back up anything you want, so in the end we went with real life experience. Once again, not a single teacher we talked to had a bad thing to say about redshirting, all were very pro redshirting!! As a matter of fact, most teachers said they wished MORE parents would do this, because our kindergarten is VERY academic, and many young kids just can't keep up with the program.
If my child has had the same amount of preschool as your child, just because their birthday is a few weeks before the cutoff, how does that make them so much more ahead???? Most parents who redshirt, know this before they even start kindergarten, and they adjust preschool as well.
Glad your kid is doing fine, find it amazing YOU would find a way to solve her problems by whatever it takes. BUT WHEN people solve their problems, and its NOT the way you think it should be solved, you complain that its unfair to YOUR child, and we weren't thinking about the good of the class.

Oh, and I have pointed out this as well, our state is CHANGING the cutoff date, so kids MUST be 5 when school starts (sept 1 will be the new cutoff). So, as far as I am concerned, my redshirting MY kids is 100% valid, considering the state feels the same way I do.

That is why I said i would do whatever it takes for my child - if my child struggles I would do whatever it takes. That said, I TOTALLY still think that all children in a classroom (both my child and yours) deserve an EQUAL playing field when starting on day 1. That, to me, includes every child being within 12 months age of each other. At that time, if my child struggled or whatever - I would hold her back, get her extra help or whatever it would take to help her. And people who fall into this category are not the ones who I know who have redshirted - these are the people who have said 'I KNOW they're good with the academics - he/she's practically reading - but I just don't think they're ready'.

The majority of my gripe is when people redshirt AND THEN ASK FOR EXTRA ENRICHMENT...for a child who, if you TRULY wanted him/her enriched, you COULD HAVE SENT the year before and they would be enriched by doing 1st grade work right now. These are the ones who 'take away' from the rest of the kids in the class. And these are the ones who add numbers to the high end of the curve and force the teacher to do way more than they would have in a natural classroom. If you have a child who is way behind...and struggles academically, and wouldn't act like a 1st grader anyway - honestly it doesn't bother me in the least.

There are already laws in place for this (thus I can't get people thinking that the government will control their family and child - they ALREADY do) - I just think it should be expanded to cover K - or if K still isn't mandatory- just test the older child and move them into 1st when he/she starts school if they are ready for that level by then - skipping K.

And many people are talking about a 'majority' of kids - I've read through most of the posts and I haven't seen anyone talk about the majority of the class. But the percentages in many areas ARE statistically significant.

Yes, my child is the youngest in her class - and she was ready for K - a very average 4 year old in every way. Knew her letters but was NOT reading. And even though she was fine to attend - I still had to question that decision. NOT because of the kids 10 - 12 months older than she was - but for the ones 15 - 18 months older. I did struggle with it ONLY BECAUSE OF REDSHIRTING ITSELF> It perpetuates itself becasue of this. I did send her on time, not wanting to perpetuate it - would she have been highest in her class maturity and academics-wise had I held her back - MOST LIKELY YES!! So, yes, it was tempting. But honestly I couldn't do it as a parent 'holding her back' was just that in my eyes - preventing her from achieving her potential this last year. And...I had to draw the line somewhere - SOMEONE has to be the youngest - I figure I'm no better than anyone else so it might as well be my kid. Honestly, I would have STRUGGLED if she did need extra enrichment if I held her back because it would have been MY FAULT - not the school's that she wasn't getting 1st grade level enrichment. Something I CHOSE to do - I would struggle with asking/insisting them to remedy. So for all of these reasons - I sent her on time.

And honestly it SHOULD have been a no -brainer. But unfortunately today because of redshirting, even no-brainer decisions like mine become complicated. Maybe someday it will be legislated out of our hands - I can always hope!

 

[Claire&TheBoys]

I am against holding back kids with summer birthdays. I think they should be given the chance to stretch, to excel and to strive. I feel like I have a unique perspective on this topic.

When I started K (just over 30 years ago), the cutoff was 12/31. You had to be 5 by 12/31 to start K. My birthday is 1/2, so I missed the cutoff by 2 days and would have been the oldest in my class. I spent 2 years at a private preschool a couple of days a week at 3 and 4. When I started K, I was reading independently, doing addition and subtraction and begging my mom to teach me multiplication and division. I was bored in K. After a lot of convincing by my mom and another teacher, the principal allowed me to move to 1st grade, making me the youngest in the class. In my public school career, I was in the gifted program, took all honors and AP classes, was the editor of the newspaper and had many friends. Yes, I was the last to drive to school (but had the coolest car, LOL), and I graduated just after turning 17. I also went off to college at 17. Today, I am thankful that my mom was my advocate and hounded the principal until he moved me to where I could be challenged and not just coast along.

Now, in my 30s, I am the mother of 2 sons. My oldest has a June birthday. He read fluently at 4 and could do simple addition and write letters to family. I *never, not once* considered holding him back to start K at 6 instead of 5. He is in 2nd grade now and at the top of his class. Despite being one of the youngest in the class, he is the tallest boy, so if he'd been held back, he'd be heads taller than the other kids, which I feel would make him self-conscious. He will start in the gifted program next year (our district does not test until 2nd grade). He has friends and fits in well with his peers. I know he in not the youngest in his class; at least one other boy and a couple of girls are younger than him.

My younger son has a February birthday so there will be no question of starting him at 5 next year. He is already starting to read and do addition, also. But he's a firecracker and will definitely keep his teacher on her toes!!

What bothers me the most in discussions like this is that parents don't want to give their children the benefit of the doubt. Why not place your child just a touch beyond his/her comfort level and see if they rise to the challenge? It is my opinion that you never know what your child is capable of doing or being or achieving unless you give them the opportunity. It could be that he/she is "immature" because they've never been expected to be MORE. That sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day could help to settle him/her down and gain focus. That maybe they act out in preschool because they're BORED and want stimulation and learning and challenges.

I'm just glad my mom didn't say, "well, if we move her up a grade, she'll be (horrors) 17 at graduation!" She chose to push me and challenge me and her confidence in me was one of the best gifts she ever gave me.

 

[tartemis]

I am against holding back kids with summer birthdays. I think they should be given the chance to stretch, to excel and to strive. I feel like I have a unique perspective on this topic.

When I started K (just over 30 years ago), the cutoff was 12/31. You had to be 5 by 12/31 to start K. My birthday is 1/2, so I missed the cutoff by 2 days and would have been the oldest in my class. I spent 2 years at a private preschool a couple of days a week at 3 and 4. When I started K, I was reading independently, doing addition and subtraction and begging my mom to teach me multiplication and division. I was bored in K. After a lot of convincing by my mom and another teacher, the principal allowed me to move to 1st grade, making me the youngest in the class. In my public school career, I was in the gifted program, took all honors and AP classes, was the editor of the newspaper and had many friends. Yes, I was the last to drive to school (but had the coolest car, LOL), and I graduated just after turning 17. I also went off to college at 17. Today, I am thankful that my mom was my advocate and hounded the principal until he moved me to where I could be challenged and not just coast along.

Now, in my 30s, I am the mother of 2 sons. My oldest has a June birthday. He read fluently at 4 and could do simple addition and write letters to family. I *never, not once* considered holding him back to start K at 6 instead of 5. He is in 2nd grade now and at the top of his class. Despite being one of the youngest in the class, he is the tallest boy, so if he'd been held back, he'd be heads taller than the other kids, which I feel would make him self-conscious. He will start in the gifted program next year (our district does not test until 2nd grade). He has friends and fits in well with his peers. I know he in not the youngest in his class; at least one other boy and a couple of girls are younger than him.

My younger son has a February birthday so there will be no question of starting him at 5 next year. He is already starting to read and do addition, also. But he's a firecracker and will definitely keep his teacher on her toes!!

What bothers me the most in discussions like this is that parents don't want to give their children the benefit of the doubt. Why not place your child just a touch beyond his/her comfort level and see if they rise to the challenge? It is my opinion that you never know what your child is capable of doing or being or achieving unless you give them the opportunity. It could be that he/she is "immature" because they've never been expected to be MORE. That sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day could help to settle him/her down and gain focus. That maybe they act out in preschool because they're BORED and want stimulation and learning and challenges.

I'm just glad my mom didn't say, "well, if we move her up a grade, she'll be (horrors) 17 at graduation!" She chose to push me and challenge me and her confidence in me was one of the best gifts she ever gave me.

Great post!

 

[imthatgirl]

I am against holding back kids with summer birthdays. I think they should be given the chance to stretch, to excel and to strive. I feel like I have a unique perspective on this topic.

When I started K (just over 30 years ago), the cutoff was 12/31. You had to be 5 by 12/31 to start K. My birthday is 1/2, so I missed the cutoff by 2 days and would have been the oldest in my class. I spent 2 years at a private preschool a couple of days a week at 3 and 4. When I started K, I was reading independently, doing addition and subtraction and begging my mom to teach me multiplication and division. I was bored in K. After a lot of convincing by my mom and another teacher, the principal allowed me to move to 1st grade, making me the youngest in the class. In my public school career, I was in the gifted program, took all honors and AP classes, was the editor of the newspaper and had many friends. Yes, I was the last to drive to school (but had the coolest car, LOL), and I graduated just after turning 17. I also went off to college at 17. Today, I am thankful that my mom was my advocate and hounded the principal until he moved me to where I could be challenged and not just coast along.

Now, in my 30s, I am the mother of 2 sons. My oldest has a June birthday. He read fluently at 4 and could do simple addition and write letters to family. I *never, not once* considered holding him back to start K at 6 instead of 5. He is in 2nd grade now and at the top of his class. Despite being one of the youngest in the class, he is the tallest boy, so if he'd been held back, he'd be heads taller than the other kids, which I feel would make him self-conscious. He will start in the gifted program next year (our district does not test until 2nd grade). He has friends and fits in well with his peers. I know he in not the youngest in his class; at least one other boy and a couple of girls are younger than him.

My younger son has a February birthday so there will be no question of starting him at 5 next year. He is already starting to read and do addition, also. But he's a firecracker and will definitely keep his teacher on her toes!!

What bothers me the most in discussions like this is that parents don't want to give their children the benefit of the doubt. Why not place your child just a touch beyond his/her comfort level and see if they rise to the challenge? It is my opinion that you never know what your child is capable of doing or being or achieving unless you give them the opportunity. It could be that he/she is "immature" because they've never been expected to be MORE. That sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day could help to settle him/her down and gain focus. That maybe they act out in preschool because they're BORED and want stimulation and learning and challenges.

I'm just glad my mom didn't say, "well, if we move her up a grade, she'll be (horrors) 17 at graduation!" She chose to push me and challenge me and her confidence in me was one of the best gifts she ever gave me.

Why would you assume parents don't know their kids well enough to make this decision? Why would you assume parents haven't already tried to challenge their kids? School certainly isn't my kids only learning environment. So why would a parent who is in tuned with their child need to send them to school to find out if they are ready?
Obviously you wouldn't have kept your son out, because he was ready. You can't possibly be naive enough to think that all kids are in that same position at the same age.

 

[tartemis]

Kindergarten isn't compulsory -- at least not in any state that I am aware of.

If it is simply an issue of "readiness", why not just hold them out until 1st grade and then start them in their correct peer group?

 

[imthatgirl]

Kindergarten isn't compulsory -- at least not in any state that I am aware of.

If it is simply an issue of "readiness", why not just hold them out until 1st grade and then start them in their correct peer group?

There are a few states where K is mandatory. It isn;t here, but I do think kids benefit greatly from attending K. I don;t think there would be any benefit to homeschooling K unless you planned to homeschool the rest of the primary years. I would also think if they aren't ready for K until the next year they certainly wouldn't be ready for 1st instead. then what was the point on waiting for k?
For us, the correct peer group for my child is not starting him this year. He will be about a year younger then a majority of the kids. I am doing the best I can to keep him with his peers.

 

[princessmom29]

I am against holding back kids with summer birthdays. I think they should be given the chance to stretch, to excel and to strive. I feel like I have a unique perspective on this topic.

When I started K (just over 30 years ago), the cutoff was 12/31. You had to be 5 by 12/31 to start K. My birthday is 1/2, so I missed the cutoff by 2 days and would have been the oldest in my class. I spent 2 years at a private preschool a couple of days a week at 3 and 4. When I started K, I was reading independently, doing addition and subtraction and begging my mom to teach me multiplication and division. I was bored in K. After a lot of convincing by my mom and another teacher, the principal allowed me to move to 1st grade, making me the youngest in the class. In my public school career, I was in the gifted program, took all honors and AP classes, was the editor of the newspaper and had many friends. Yes, I was the last to drive to school (but had the coolest car, LOL), and I graduated just after turning 17. I also went off to college at 17. Today, I am thankful that my mom was my advocate and hounded the principal until he moved me to where I could be challenged and not just coast along.

Now, in my 30s, I am the mother of 2 sons. My oldest has a June birthday. He read fluently at 4 and could do simple addition and write letters to family. I *never, not once* considered holding him back to start K at 6 instead of 5. He is in 2nd grade now and at the top of his class. Despite being one of the youngest in the class, he is the tallest boy, so if he'd been held back, he'd be heads taller than the other kids, which I feel would make him self-conscious. He will start in the gifted program next year (our district does not test until 2nd grade). He has friends and fits in well with his peers. I know he in not the youngest in his class; at least one other boy and a couple of girls are younger than him.

My younger son has a February birthday so there will be no question of starting him at 5 next year. He is already starting to read and do addition, also. But he's a firecracker and will definitely keep his teacher on her toes!!

What bothers me the most in discussions like this is that parents don't want to give their children the benefit of the doubt. Why not place your child just a touch beyond his/her comfort level and see if they rise to the challenge? It is my opinion that you never know what your child is capable of doing or being or achieving unless you give them the opportunity. It could be that he/she is "immature" because they've never been expected to be MORE. That sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day could help to settle him/her down and gain focus. That maybe they act out in preschool because they're BORED and want stimulation and learning and challenges.

I'm just glad my mom didn't say, "well, if we move her up a grade, she'll be (horrors) 17 at graduation!" She chose to push me and challenge me and her confidence in me was one of the best gifts she ever gave me.

You sound a lot like me. I am a June B'day and went to school at the beginnig of august after I turned 5. I was 17 when I graduated high school. Gifted, AP, got a full ride to a major university ect. It never enterd ANYONE's head to hold a child back from stating school when I went. It was unheard of except in the case of a special needs child. It has only really come into vouge in the last 10 years or so. In fact my Mom was appaled that my sister missed the cutoff by 15 days and had to start K at almost 6. She was the oldest in her class every year, and struggled socially much more than I ever did. She was the bright and bored kid that wreaked havoc.

 

[princessmom29]

Why would you assume parents don't know their kids well enough to make this decision? Why would you assume parents haven't already tried to challenge their kids? School certainly isn't my kids only learning environment. So why would a parent who is in tuned with their child need to send them to school to find out if they are ready?
Obviously you wouldn't have kept your son out, because he was ready. You can't possibly be naive enough to think that all kids are in that same position at the same age.

I honestly think that a lot of parents use the "not ready" bit as an excuse to hold them out, and don't do it because they are truly not ready. At least that is what I am seeing from being in the clasroom with these kids. Most of them came into K with almost every skill they were to learn that year, those who were held back one year and those held out two. It was not about readiness, but in the case of our school it is about sports, along woth mom wanting to keep baby home another year. Sports teams are seperated by grade, not age so holding back gives you an advantage. "he's not ready" is the most common excuse used, but the reality is "we want him to be the biggest and fastest on the soccer team." They will be 19 and still playing high school sports, and thus in a better position to make college teams and get athletic scholarships. For you, it may not be the case and it sounds like it isn't ,but that is the reality of what many of us are dealing with. These kids are held back for no other reason that an advantage on a sports team. I know you are gonig to say that you cannot believe any parent would do that, but they do I assure you. It happens frequently here. The vast majority of the K holdouts are boys who are already playing competitve sports. One of the 7 year olds in DD's calss missed a lot of school with travel soccer this year. He is palying travel ball in a u7 league, but on our K team. Who do you think gets the most playing time???