I need help from fellow vegetarians

[smilingmouse]

I just wanted to thank everyone who posted web sites and suggestions on this thread. I currently eat very little meat (I do eat cheese and eggs) and I will prob. stop eating meat all together before too long.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Thanks, druidia for posting the recipe! DD and I were just discussing Thanksgiving. This will be our first one alone since my divorce and we were thinking it would be fun to have a huge vegetarian spread. My ex-husband was a die hard meat eater.

I told her I was anxiously awaiting a yummy recipe from a DISer. She thinks it's funny how much information I get off these boards.

This recipe will more than likely be the centerpiece. Thanks again!

One of our Thanksgiving Day foods is usually a Spaghetti Squash casserole from the Moosewood Cookbook. It seems so perfect for fall and something that we've made for years. It's a good cookbook to take a look at, if you don't have (it's lacto-ovo).

Another favorite cookbook (not that you asked about cookbooks ) is American Wholefoods Cuisine. My copy has been used so much that it's in three pieces and I need to order a new copy.

 

[Laura]

Are they soy?

Nope.
http://www.quorn.us//cmpage.aspx?section=WhatIsQuorn

 

[VSL]

I'm not a vegetarian (although I have been spending the last few weeks researching the 'original'/ideal diet for man - everything from pure canivorism to raw vegan foodism), but I think the best thing to remember when you get stressed is that for many people, the 'right' way to eat is ingrained in them from birth - and only those who are genuinely interested, and want to find the best way for him/her to eat, are able to challenge and change those beliefs within themselves.

To give you an idea of what my parents think:
The last few weeks, I have been practically living off Cadbury's Dairy Milk and Big Mac Meals (all while looking into the best way for humans to eat - how ironic!). Well, this morning I got home and decided to make bacon and eggs - my mother's response was 'it's nice to see you eating something healthy for a change - me and your father have been worried about you' Yep, she thinks that bacon and eggs are the healthy alternative to what I've been eating (and while it may be better than the stuff I have been eating, I would in no way view the bacon - with all it's nitrates and sodium - as 'healthy').

Ironically, despite what I've been eating for the past few weeks, my ideas on what humans should and should not consume are probably far more 'radical' than anyone else in this thread. Unfortunately, when I make the switch I am anticipating some hostile reactions and raised eyebrows (from people who have not even half the nutritional/evolutionary/dietary knowledge that I have, no less!).

 

[Tigger&Belle]

To give you an idea of what my parents think:
The last few weeks, I have been practically living off Cadbury's Dairy Milk and Big Mac Meals (all while looking into the best way for humans to eat - hot ironic!). Well, this morning I got home and decided to make bacon and eggs - my mother's response was 'it's nice to see you eating something healthy for a change - me and your father have been worried about you' Yep, she thinks that bacon and eggs are the healthy alternative to what I've been eating (and while it may be better than the stuff I have been eating, I would in no way view the bacon - with all it's nitrates and sodium - as 'healthy').

Ironically, despite what I've been eating for the past few weeks, my ideas on what humans should and should not consume are probably far more 'radical' than anyone else in this thread. Unfortunately, when I make the switch I am anticipating some hostile reactions and raised eyebrows (from people who have not even half the nutritional/evolutionary/dietary knowledge that I have, no less!).

I can so hear my mother saying those same exact words!

Did you see Supersize Me? That was an interesting movie and I'd like to read the Fast Food Nation (I think that's what it's called).

 

[VSL]

My BF's got a DVD copy of Supersize Me! but we have yet to watch it. I've been pondering buying Fast Food Nation for a while, but I'm just going to wait for the film now (no idea when it's coming out exactly, but I know it's coming soon!).

What's amazing though is that before I went on an almost totally junk diet I was eating 70-80% of my daily diet in raw fruit/veg, and I can really feel the difference in my body and mind. I don't think people really notice how much food can effect them physically and mentally until they go from one extreme to the other. It's quite shocking when you experience it. Now I'm thinking about it, I think I'm going to get back into my 'raw until dinner' routine tomorrow!

 

[disneysteve]

this morning I got home and decided to make bacon and eggs - my mother's response was 'it's nice to see you eating something healthy for a change

I deal with this line of thinking every day in my medical practice when trying to counsel patients. Just last week, I was talking to a mom about her obese daughter. When I asked what she eats for breakfast, I got a similar reply - "she eats a good healthy breakfast every day - bacon and eggs." She seemed genuinely shocked when I said that was an extremely unhealthy breakfast. I hear some variation of that daily. Many, many people simply don't comprehend what constitutes good nutrition.

 

[Laura]

My parents' big argument was that eating meat is so natural. They say people have been eating meat for centuries and it is the way it was supposed to be.

Oh, I just hate that argument. It's like saying, "If God had meant for us to fly, He would have given us wings." We don't need to grow wings to fly, we can use our brains and build planes instead. Likewise, we don't need meat to live, we can just make tofu.

What was the average lifespan of Neanderthals? How healthy were they? We are omnivores because thousands of years ago, humans (and our evolutionary ancestors) didn't know where they might get the next meal. An animal? A tree? Our bodies needed to be able to digest just about anything. We don't need meat to survive because it's not the only protein readily available. I also read something recently that humans instinctively want to gorge themselves on all available food until we're more than full (which explains obesity due to overeating). That's also because our ancestors' bodies needed to get as much "fuel" as possible to last until the next meal, the timing of which wasn't predictable. The medical field has found that it's healthier to eat more numerous, smaller meals instead of fewer, larger ones. But since our bodies tell us to gorge, should we only eat at buffets a couple times a day? We aren't Neanderthals any more, and we live in the First World. Our brains and our technology have evolved far beyond our physical bodies. We can just drive to the supermarket and buy everything we need nutritionally instead of having to hunt and gather for it. We don't need meat to survive--I've said that over and over. I don't know why some meat-eaters don't seem to believe it.

There's a lovely quote from the movie "The African Queen". Katharine Hepburn's character says to Humphrey Bogart, "Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put on this earth to rise above." I tend to believe that.

 

[VSL]

What was the average lifespan of Neanderthals? How healthy were they?
. . .
We aren't Neanderthals any more...

Well, the general theory is that we never were Neanderthals. **** sapiens sapiens and **** neanderthalis both descended from **** sapiens though they are not the same - although there is a theory that **** sapiens and **** neaderthalis may have interbred (and that Europeans and those of European descent therefore are **** sapien/neaderthalis hybrids rather than **** sapiens sapiens).

And modern hunter-gatherer societies (who pretty much live as the entire human population would have before the agricultural revoltion) are generally very healthy - especially compared to many Westerners. Physically, they are much fitter than the average. There are probably references online somewhere. I've only looked over them briefly.

Then there is the argument of what we are designed to eat. Be wary of some of these - I have found two comparison lists of our digestive system online. One concludes that we are meant to be pure carnivores, the other that we are meant to be pure vegans (leaning towards raw food and lots of greens). Obviously, both cannot be correct - and, unfortunately, the vast majority of these websites (vegan or not) have an agenda.

Beyond that, there are theories relating to how/why dogs were the first domesticated animals, our physical structure (hands with opposing thumbs; binocular vision, bipedal) and the relative size of our brains to our bodies in comparison to carnivores and herbivores.

However, either way, biologically we have only evolved approximately 0.02% in the last 10,000 years (ie, since the agricultural evolution).

[See - I told you I had been researching the issue! ]

However, the important thing is to do what is right for you (general 'you'). You can find arguments both for and against everything, and sometimes science seems to cause more problems than it solves. But, whatever - you have to do what you feel comfortable with, whether that means being a raw foodist, vegan, beegan, dietary vegan, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, lacto-vegetarian, ovo-vegetarian, pescetarian, SAD (standard American diet) eater, pure carnivore, paleo-eating, etc.
And realise that with something that is such a cultural thing, there will always be people who disagree/do not accept your opinion/WOE. But, with any luck, the OP can let her mother know how tiring it is, and her mother will at least back off.


ETA: Well, I see that a certain word is getting blocked by the filter - but I'm sure you all know what it is (and what context it is being used in).

 

[PrincessJasmine08]

I can so hear my mother saying those same exact words!

Did you see Supersize Me? That was an interesting movie and I'd like to read the Fast Food Nation (I think that's what it's called).

OMG, that movie was so disturbing! Why would anyone do that to their body!!?

 

[PrincessJasmine08]

Oh, I just hate that argument. It's like saying, "If God had meant for us to fly, He would have given us wings." We don't need to grow wings to fly, we can use our brains and build planes instead. Likewise, we don't need meat to live, we can just make tofu.

What was the average lifespan of Neanderthals? How healthy were they? We are omnivores because thousands of years ago, humans (and our evolutionary ancestors) didn't know where they might get the next meal. An animal? A tree? Our bodies needed to be able to digest just about anything. We don't need meat to survive because it's not the only protein readily available. I also read something recently that humans instinctively want to gorge themselves on all available food until we're more than full (which explains obesity due to overeating). That's also because our ancestors' bodies needed to get as much "fuel" as possible to last until the next meal, the timing of which wasn't predictable. The medical field has found that it's healthier to eat more numerous, smaller meals instead of fewer, larger ones. But since our bodies tell us to gorge, should we only eat at buffets a couple times a day? We aren't Neanderthals any more, and we live in the First World. Our brains and our technology have evolved far beyond our physical bodies. We can just drive to the supermarket and buy everything we need nutritionally instead of having to hunt and gather for it. We don't need meat to survive--I've said that over and over. I don't know why some meat-eaters don't seem to believe it.

There's a lovely quote from the movie "The African Queen". Katharine Hepburn's character says to Humphrey Bogart, "Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put on this earth to rise above." I tend to believe that.

I LOVE Katharine Hepburn!

 

[Tazicket]

However, the important thing is to do what is right for you (general 'you'). You can find arguments both for and against everything, and sometimes science seems to cause more problems than it solves. But, whatever - you have to do what you feel comfortable with, whether that means being a raw foodist, vegan, beegan, dietary vegan, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, lacto-vegetarian, ovo-vegetarian, pescetarian, SAD (standard American diet) eater, pure carnivore, paleo-eating, etc.

Sorry, I know it's a little off topic, but what does it mean to be beegan or pescetarian? I've never heard of those before.

 

[Laura]

Sorry, I know it's a little off topic, but what does it mean to be beegan or pescetarian? I've never heard of those before.

A beegan is someone who's almost vegan but eats honey. A pescetarian eats fish--usually they're almost ovo-lacto vegetarians.

 

[Tazicket]

A beegan is someone who's almost vegan but eats honey. A pescetarian eats fish--usually they're almost ovo-lacto vegetarians.

Oooooh! Thank you! So I guess that means that vegans don't eat honey? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. As you can probably tell, I am not vegan or vegetarian, but I have much respect for those who are. Just wanted to be educated a little.

 

[VSL]

My parents' big argument was that eating meat is so natural. They say people have been eating meat for centuries and it is the way it was supposed to be.

Oh, I just hate that argument. It's like saying, "If God had meant for us to fly, He would have given us wings." We don't need to grow wings to fly, we can use our brains and build planes instead. Likewise, we don't need meat to live, we can just make tofu.

OMG! Can't believe I didn't think of this yesterday!

A great counter-argument to the 'eating meat is so natural because we've been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years' is to point out that we can only capture and eat meat with the use of tools (and therefore by their view eating things like ice-cream, pure sugar, a toffee must be 'natural' because we can eat those... but only with tools ).

Other carnivores have strong sprint capabilities and sharp teeth and claws, to chase down their prey and kill it efficiently. Humans don't have these things (although we're pretty good on the endurance front - as herbivores are), so maybe we aren't meant to eat meat, seeing as we don't have the physical capabilities to get it ourselves without the use of tools.

 

[VSL]

Oooooh! Thank you! So I guess that means that vegans don't eat honey? Sorry for my lack of knowledge. As you can probably tell, I am not vegan or vegetarian, but I have much respect for those who are. Just wanted to be educated a little.

Nope - because honey is an animal product (I didn't really realise this until fairly recently though!)

That's also why there is often a distinction between 'vegan' and 'dietary vegan'. A vegan avoids animal products altogether (in the form of food, clothing, hygiene products, etc.), whereas a dietary vegan only eats vegan foods, but doesn't necessarily avoid all other animal products.

 

[Tazicket]

Nope - because honey is an animal product (I didn't really realise this until fairly recently though!)

That's also why there is often a distinction between 'vegan' and 'dietary vegan'. A vegan avoids animal products altogether (in the form of food, clothing, hygiene products, etc.), whereas a dietary vegan only eats vegan foods, but doesn't necessarily avoid all other animal products.

Cool! Thanks!