I know I'm late to the game...

[Lisa loves Pooh]

At least that's honest.
So what was the Diamond Parking Pass? I've never had a need to park diamonds at WDW. No really, what was it?

Parking pass from AAA. I think you got it when you booked your package through them.

Parking was up front near handicap parking.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No. She changed her expectations. And worked to meet her new expectations.

Expectations can be changed without going "lower".

Expecting different things verses expecting less.

 

[JimmyV]

Sure. Expectations can change by going lower, higher or sideways. I think we can all agree that AA did not raise her expectations. So that leaves "lower" and "sideways". Her post that describes how many times she used to ride Space Mountain and the tiered rides at DHS and Epcot pretty much reveal that she did not adjust her expectations sideways. So while your statement is generically true, as applied to AA, she lowered her expectations and then plotted out the best way to meet those lowered expectations. Deriving anything else from her posts is simply not being honest.

 

[JimmyV]

That would be equally bad advice, but no one is doing anything even close to that.

You are correct that no one is saying precisely that. But what is happening is that a gulf is developing between the people who report that they have been able to meet their prior expectations without changing them and the people who feel that they must lower their expectations. The quotes listed below are not an attempt to discredit or criticize the posters. They are frank and honest posts that need to be considered and accepted. But it becomes pretty clear where the divide falls. It is the "commandos" versus the "more casual guest". Here are some quotes from people who are "Pro-FP+"

I don't mind the new system. Last week I booked my fast passes and got what I wanted. But then again my situation is alot different then others. I don't have any small kids that want to meet and greet. I also don't do any of the coaster rides, I am a wimp lol.

We like the FP+ because its rare that we would use more than 2 FP's at a park anyway

We don't try to do rides multiple times, we don't arrive late, we don't wing it.

We only have 2 or so must do's in each park, so weren't stressed out with the other fp's we got.

See the pattern? And a very wise poster who is Pro-FP+ had this to say, which is, in my opinion, the proverbial hammer hitting the proverbial nail on the proverbial head...

You are definitely limited in your ability to ride over and over and over again. So if that is your expectation, you are probably going to be disappointed.

She then went on to say....

I don't think however, that is what a lot of people are looking for.

Equally true. So the debate is really over nothing. People who are not looking to ride over and over again have nothing to fear and no reason to lower expectations. Commandos have been dealt a blow and would be wise to lower expectations. They are not going to be able to blog about riding TSMM 8 times on Easter Sunday any more. Plain and simple.

 

[Mikie]

I do agree with JimmyV about where the extremes fall in their approval/ disapproval of FP+. I am more in the "approve" category than not, but I am not as casual a visitor as those quoted above, though. I am definitely not commando, but at least one person I travel with likes every single ride/attraction at WDW (except stitch, I don't know anyone in the group who asks for that. . . ) and given an infinite amount of time and money, we'd do every single thing once or twice. we will use all 3 of our original FPs and do not require (now or in the past under FP-) a fastpass for everything we do. We would also like to do re-rides of our favorites, but don't define a successful trip as 3+ rides on anything, especially on the same day. Based on my own experience and a handful of people I know who visit with a similar style, these kinds of travelers probably do not need to lower expectations.

Formerly, when I read about "no re-rides under FP+" I really thought it must mean literally one of each headliner as in the days of ticket books and e-ticket rides. Now, I'd revise that to more like JimmyV's comment about not being able to ride TSMM 8 times on Easter Sunday.

 

[MainMom]

You are correct that no one is saying precisely that. But what is happening is that a gulf is developing between the people who report that they have been able to meet their prior expectations without changing them and the people who feel that they must lower their expectations. The quotes listed below are not an attempt to discredit or criticize the posters. They are frank and honest posts that need to be considered and accepted. But it becomes pretty clear where the divide falls. It is the "commandos" versus the "more casual guest". Here are some quotes from people who are "Pro-FP+"

Equally true. So the debate is really over nothing. People who are not looking to ride over and over again have nothing to fear and no reason to lower expectations. Commandos have been dealt a blow and would be wise to lower expectations. They are not going to be able to blog about riding TSMM 8 times on Easter Sunday any more. Plain and simple.

Correct, but I came to this board, having been to WDW many times prior to FP+, trying to figure out the new system. To see people just posting 'lower your expectations' with nothing about how they tour, when they go, etc. is just negative. When I first started reading my thoughts were "great, now we won't be able to ride splash or BTMRR or SM without long waits" because MY expectation was to ride them all once in a day with reasonable waits and possibly the help of FP+, not to ride them multiple times. It's the difference between saying "I travel in April when crowds are typically lower and used to be able to ride 25 rides in a day at MK. Now with FP+ I can only do X amount of rides so I have lowered my expectations" and making a blanket statement just to lower my expectations.

As someone who has been to WDW many times, I was able to figure this out. I can now easily dismiss these posts and others that make no sense for me. Someone who travels in January won't be as relevant to me as someone who traveled at Christmas since I am traveling in the summer (busy times!) But how can I know this unless the person saying to lower my expectations lets others know that they traveled in Jan? I can only imagine what a newbie feels like reading these posts.

I'm not saying that the commando shouldn't feel how they do or share it. It's just a matter of a bit more description IMO.

 

[JimmyV]

I agree. Broadly worded statements on both sides without additional context are not particularly helpful. Which is why the posts that I quoted are very helpful. They provide the context under which success was achieved. And AA's post earlier in this thread was also particularly helpful because it provides the context under which expectations should be limited. That said, posts that tell you about how secondary attractions are now seeing longer standby waits don't really need much context other than crowd levels for the day. It doesn't matter whether the poster is a commando or a causal tourer. If people are reporting longer waits in the standby line, the way one tours does not impact that outcome. And if people are reporting longer standby waits in January or April, it stands to reason that the more busy months of June and July aren't going to be better. There are times when extrapolation can be done even if little context has been provided.

 

[Cormoran]

I just don't understand why expressing my opinion and sharing my experiences causes such a backlash. I will stand by my original statements:

I've got FP's booked for the evenings on our upcoming trip. The mornings and early afternoons are going to be spent exploring other Orlando area attractions. I didn't mind booking FP's, but now every time I try accessing my account Stitch comes on to tell me someone ate the page. I am really looking forward to our upcoming vacation, even though I know it is a total paradigm shift. I am paying more and experiencing considerably less since the implementation of FP+. For me, the biggest question I have is will I still think a WDW vacation has value for my family. I honestly don't know.

Don't expect the same type of experience that you had on previous trips. I think the best advice I've read on these boards is to lower your expectations.

I am not going to back down from my opinions and my experiences because FP+ proponents disagree with my opinions. I am not trying to convince anyone that I'm right and they're wrong. All I am doing is expressing my opinion. Last time I checked this was still allowed.

 

[MrInfinity]

I just don't understand why expressing my opinion and sharing my experiences causes such a backlash. I will stand by my original statements: I am paying more and experiencing considerably less since the implementation of FP+. For me, the biggest question I have is will I still think a WDW vacation has value for my family. I honestly don't know. Don't expect the same type of experience that you had on previous trips. I think the best advice I've read on these boards is to lower your expectations.

Cormoran, I think your posts generate backlash (as you call it - I'd say they generate discussion) because you state in bold that your experience is yours, you, and what you think. But then you go on to say that because you aren't getting the same experience now, that the best advice one can give is to lower expectations. Making that leap from telling about your own lowered (or whatever) experience, to suggesting other people should expect to also do less is what generates the discussion. You don't say "I was unable to ride as much, but I also hear it's possible"... you imply "I was unable to ride as much. You won't either. Therefore, lower your expectations so you can meet them."

Many people, the world over, are not doing less, not lowering expectations, and having them met. And not just people who don't ride much. I rode a ton. I think you believe me, in that I did not lower my expectations. I rode a lot, and that's that. I had as great a time as ever with FP+, and Disney World in every way met my very high expectations. In fact it so exceeded them I've wanted to go back since!

 

[Angel Ariel]

But then you go on to say that because you aren't getting the same experience now, that the best advice one can give is to lower expectations.

Actually, she said "I think the best advice I've read on these boards is to lower your expectations." As in that was the best advice she has read on these boards.

That is not the same thing as saying that "the best advice one can give is to lower expectations."

The OP of this thread asked:

Can I just say I'm not a fan of the Fastpass sysytem. I don't like to plan so far in advance. I like to pick my park the night before! lol Help me accept the change!

She shared what she has done to accept the change, and yes, suggested it as a possibility for the OP. Given what the OP asked, it is a completely valid response to their question.

 

[Cormoran]

Cormoran, I think your posts generate backlash (as you call it - I'd say they generate discussion) because you state in bold that your experience is yours, you, and what you think. But then you go on to say that because you aren't getting the same experience now, that the best advice one can give is to lower expectations. Making that leap from telling about your own lowered (or whatever) experience, to suggesting other people should expect to also do less is what generates the discussion. You don't say "I was unable to ride as much, but I also hear it's possible"... you imply "I was unable to ride as much. You won't either. Therefore, lower your expectations so you can meet them."

Many people, the world over, are not doing less, not lowering expectations, and having them met. And not just people who don't ride much. I rode a ton. I think you believe me, in that I did not lower my expectations. I rode a lot, and that's that. I had as great a time as ever with FP+, and Disney World in every way met my very high expectations. In fact it so exceeded them I've wanted to go back since!

I was only speaking for myself, not for you or anyone else. I am not dismissing your experiences or making excuses for why your experience was different than mine. Why can't the same courtesy be extended to me and people who share my opinions?
I am constantly being reminded that FP+ is here to stay. So, I must stop complaining and learn to adapt. Then when I share my adapting strategy: to lower my expectations, I am also told I am wrong. So what is it? Am I only able to adapt to FP+ in a certain prescribed manner? My experience last April was that I rode less with FP+ because the secondary attractions had longer standby lines. It was a really disappointing trip because I had high expectations and I was disappointed.

This April, I am learning to adapt to FP+. I have accepted the new reality that I will not be able to ride as many attractions. If this turns out to be true, I will not be disappointed. However if it turns that I am able to ride multiple secondary attractions with shorter waits, it will be a delightful surprise. Either way, I will not be disappointed. How is this a bad strategy?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was only speaking for myself, not for you or anyone else. I am not dismissing your experiences or making excuses for why your experience was different than mine. Why can't the same courtesy be extended to me and people who share my opinions?
I am constantly being reminded that FP+ is here to stay. So, I must stop complaining and learn to adapt. Then when I share my adapting strategy: to lower my expectations, I am also told I am wrong. So what is it? Am I only able to adapt to FP+ in a certain prescribed manner? My experience last April was that I rode less with FP+ because the secondary attractions had longer standby lines. It was a really disappointing trip because I had high expectations and I was disappointed.

This April, I am learning to adapt to FP+. I have accepted the new reality that I will not be able to ride as many attractions. If this turns out to be true, I will not be disappointed. However if it turns that I am able to ride multiple secondary attractions with shorter waits, it will be a delightful surprise. Either way, I will not be disappointed. How is this a bad strategy?

But nobody told you that you shouldn't lower your own expectations. No one told you that you are wrong for doing so for your trip.

What was done was requests for additional information from your trip so that others could determine their own expectations for their trip. And for your experience, crowds were also a factor and it would be appropriate advice for any guest to adjust their own expectations as needed with the composite of available information.

So, someone who travels usually on New Year's Eve to MK may actually get to raise their expectations if they traveled to MK during the dates you traveled in April last year since it isn't quite as busy, as an example.

 

[Luckybee]

Equally true. So the debate is really over nothing. People who are not looking to ride over and over again have nothing to fear and no reason to lower expectations. Commandos have been dealt a blow and would be wise to lower expectations. They are not going to be able to blog about riding TSMM 8 times on Easter Sunday any more. Plain and simple.

Jimmy it is rare that I disagree with you since you are generally so wise in all things Disney

I do think you are selling the fp+ problems short with this statement. You have left out of the equation those of us who were not huge fp- users, but who either miss the spontaneity, or the much shorter standby lines for the secondary rides. I get that the repeat riders would not be happy and are likely the most affected, but we were not of that genre. In a nutshell the two things we disliked the most were that we didn't like "feeling " scheduled as though we had ride appointments( like having to go to a business meeting), and we really didn't like the new versions of lines (much longer than we were used to). Repeat rides or, pulling multiple fp's- were not even on our radar. Somehow I don't think we're alone in that feeling and I therefore do have reasons to lower my expectations when going to Disney !

 

[Luckybee]

I was only speaking for myself, not for you or anyone else. I am not dismissing your experiences or making excuses for why your experience was different than mine. Why can't the same courtesy be extended to me and people who share my opinions?
I am constantly being reminded that FP+ is here to stay. So, I must stop complaining and learn to adapt. Then when I share my adapting strategy: to lower my expectations, I am also told I am wrong. So what is it? Am I only able to adapt to FP+ in a certain prescribed manner? My experience last April was that I rode less with FP+ because the secondary attractions had longer standby lines. It was a really disappointing trip because I had high expectations and I was disappointed.

This April, I am learning to adapt to FP+. I have accepted the new reality that I will not be able to ride as many attractions. If this turns out to be true, I will not be disappointed. However if it turns that I am able to ride multiple secondary attractions with shorter waits, it will be a delightful surprise. Either way, I will not be disappointed. How is this a bad strategy?

You mean you haven't figured it out yet? It's ok for you to have lower expectations, but it isn't ok for you to suggest to anyone else that they might consider doing so as well. You're supposed to tell them that with a good strategy they'll have an amazing trip, they'll be able to do everything they so desire, everything will be perfect, and although it may rain every day the rain will be followed with rainbows overhead. And you're supposed to do that with friends too, even if you don't feel that way....lol.

 

[MrInfinity]

You mean you haven't figured it out yet? It's ok for you to have lower expectations, but it isn't ok for you to suggest to anyone else that they might consider doing so as well. You're supposed to tell them that with a good strategy they'll have an amazing trip, they'll be able to do everything they so desire, everything will be perfect, and although it may rain every day the rain will be followed with rainbows overhead. And you're supposed to do that with friends too, even if you don't feel that way....lol.

Love how you temper the original advice from "the best advice on the internet is to lower your expectations"... to just "suggest anyone might consider doing so". It's totally fine, Lucky, you can give any advice you like. A lot of ppl just think that's bad advice, so expect counters to it. Cor and others suggested the best advice on the internet, period, is to lower expectations. Without even knowing what expectations are -- just lower them a notch. So a Disney World hopeful, eager to go, excited about a trip, comes out to ask for advice on how to have a great trip using FP+, and you think that to lower his expectations is the best advice. Maybe follow it up w an anecdote about questioning your own value of a WDW vacation altogether. Fine! That's some advice for ya. I just don't agree w it, that's all. It's great that you share your opinion and experience -- very valuable. I would hope you accept there are other experiences that are completely different, positive, and successful. And these are equally relevant and helpful.

With a few specific cases excepted, one can do just as much as ever with FP+. Not that everyone will, or that you will, or that everyone will love it, just that it's possible to have as good a time as ever riding tons of rides with FP+. I know it's at least possible because I experienced that. And FP+ added a lot to the overall experience of Disney World.

 

[Cormoran]

Love how you temper the original advice from "the best advice on the internet is to lower your expectations"... to just "suggest anyone might consider doing so". It's totally fine, Lucky, you can give any advice you like. A lot of ppl just think that's bad advice, so expect counters to it. Cor and others suggested the best advice on the internet, period, is to lower expectations. Without even knowing what expectations are -- just lower them a notch. So a Disney World hopeful, eager to go, excited about a trip, comes out to ask for advice on how to have a great trip using FP+, and you think that to lower his expectations is the best advice. Maybe follow it up w an anecdote about questioning your own value of a WDW vacation altogether. Fine! That's some advice for ya. I just don't agree w it, that's all. It's great that you share your opinion and experience -- very valuable. I would hope you accept there are other experiences that are completely different, positive, and successful. And these are equally relevant and helpful.

With a few specific cases excepted, one can do just as much as ever with FP+. Not that everyone will, or that you will, or that everyone will love it, just that it's possible to have as good a time as ever riding tons of rides with FP+. I know it's at least possible because I experienced that. And FP+ added a lot to the overall experience of Disney World.

In my original post I said the best advice I had seen on the boards whs to lower my expectations. Again, I was expressing my opinions. Why is this so hard to understand? I wasn't speaking for anyone else.

 

[Cormoran]

You mean you haven't figured it out yet? It's ok for you to have lower expectations, but it isn't ok for you to suggest to anyone else that they might consider doing so as well. You're supposed to tell them that with a good strategy they'll have an amazing trip, they'll be able to do everything they so desire, everything will be perfect, and although it may rain every day the rain will be followed with rainbows overhead. And you're supposed to do that with friends too, even if you don't feel that way....lol.

Oh yes I have figured it out. When you adapt to FP+ in any way other than proclaiming that it's the best thing Disney has ever done, then you are wrong according to the FP+ proponents. All WDW vacation goers must learn to embrace and accept the new FP+ experience with a song in their hearts and a smile on their faces. If anyone says they have adapted by lowering their expectations, then they're just wrong. According to some, we have a right to express our opinions, but only if our opinions are "right"

 

[Luckybee]

Love how you temper the original advice from "the best advice on the internet is to lower your expectations"... to just "suggest anyone might consider doing so". It's totally fine, Lucky, you can give any advice you like. A lot of ppl just think that's bad advice, so expect counters to it. Cor and others suggested the best advice on the internet, period, is to lower expectations. Without even knowing what expectations are -- just lower them a notch. So a Disney World hopeful, eager to go, excited about a trip, comes out to ask for advice on how to have a great trip using FP+, and you think that to lower his expectations is the best advice. Then follow it up w an anecdote about questioning your own value of a WDW vacation altogether. Fine! That's some advice. I just don't agree w it, that's all. It's great that you share your opinion and experience -- very valuable. There are just other experiences that are completely different, yet equally relevant and helpful.

With a few specific cases excepted, one can do just as much as ever with FP+. Not that everyone will, or that you will, or that everyone will love it, just that it's possible to have as good a time as ever riding tons of rides with FP+. I know it's at least possible because I experienced that. And FP+ added a lot to the overall experience of Disney World.

The problem (if one exists) in the various dialogues involving fp+ is that some seem to have a hard time discerning between fact and opinion...and once again your post proves it. When you say "With a few specific cases excepted, one can do just as much as ever with FP+. Not that everyone will, or that you will, or that everyone will love it, just that it's possible to have as good a time as ever riding tons of rides with FP+. I know it's at least possible because I experienced that. And FP+ added a lot to the overall experience of Disney World".....that is your opinion and you are more than entitled to provide it to anyone who asks. I have no difficulty whatsoever with that. So feel free to tell anyone who might be listening.
You know what ...I dont think that it is bad advice, or "advice I dont agree with"...I think it is your advice, based on your experiences. But it isnt everyone's "opinion, nor their reality. It isnt fact even though you state it as such. You just dont seem to get that not everyone thinks that it is possible to "have as good time as ever" because you did. So no for some, the minority? the majority ? somewhere in the middle? it is not "possible" for whatever reason they dont like fp+. Proclamations to the contrary do nothing to advance your position.
Understand that my advice which you happen to not "agree" with (as though personal opinions and experiences can be agreed with....huh?) will be based on my experiences and not yours....so I have a sneaking hunch you wont "agree" with my advice more than once.
But it is just my "opinion" so have at it! Wouldnt it be better though if everyone just gave their opinions without the rhetoric of opinion x is wrong . Because they are after all just opinions. Guess that wouldnt be as much fun though right?

 

[MrInfinity]

Oh yes I have figured it out. When you adapt to FP+ in any way other than proclaiming that it's the best thing Disney has ever done, then you are wrong according to the FP+ proponents. All WDW vacation goers must learn to embrace and accept the new FP+ experience with a song in their hearts and a smile on their faces. If anyone says they have adapted by lowering their expectations, then they're just wrong. According to some, we have a right to express our opinions, but only if our opinions are "right"

Why the extremes. I didn't say any of that. No one did. Not even those most supportive of FP+. This conversation is kind of dying since you're reducing the arguments to you either love it and you're right or you hate it and you're right. It's not like that. I clearly said you should express your opinions no matter what.

 

[Luckybee]

Why the extremes. I didn't say any of that. No one did. Not even those most supportive of FP+. This conversation is kind of dying since you're reducing the arguments to you either love it and you're right or you hate it and you're right. It's not like that. I clearly said you should express your opinions no matter what.

But that isnt what you've said. You repeatedly and consistently state your "opinion" as fact ! You may attempt to couch your words in language that would indicate that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you dont do it very successfully !