I know I'm late to the game...

[Luckybee]

Regardless, more would have been possible on that day. The self imposed limit still limited in either system.

We have self imposed limits as well as I am sure other travelers do. It would be suspect to blame it on something I am not fond of without considering all factors and failing to mention that I am disregarding those factors in an effort to strengthen my opinion on what I didn't like. Obviously my experience doesn't change, but how I use it to influence others would be greatly altered.

Also--quite easy again depends upon crowds, doesn't it?

I can go back to the early 90's (although I did start going to Disneyland as a child in the late 70's)where crowd levels at MK were very similar to current ones ie 1991 over 18 million annual. We've gone at least every 2nd yr on avg since then sometimes more often sometimes a couple of times a yr rarely less until late 2000's when some medical issues. I can only speak from my personal experience which was we never waited for the secondary rides anywhere near the posted times we saw on our last trip. For us it doesn't average out with any fp+ savings. For us fp+ is not a positive. For you it is. For some it will be, for others it wont. We were no longer able to do Disney the way we liked which was to jump on the secondary rides with little or no lines. We will continue to enjoy Disney for what it is, when we go, which will not be as often. We have lowered our expectations as to what to expect, and will continue to do so until we see it differently based on our own experiences, not what anyone on these boards tells us we should do....sheesh !

 

[Angel Ariel]

I quoted the part of your post I was responding to with that statement. I then finished my post by agreeing with the portion of your statement that I didn't quote.

Very true. It just seems that some only wish to factor it on positive reports.

The "it" here, in the context of the conversation, seems to be referring to crowd levels, given the quote of mine that you were responding to

Factoring crowd levels into the discussion is important when discussing FP+ experiences - both when there are negative FP+ reports during high crowd times as well as positive FP+ reports during low crowd times (and positive reports during high crowd times, and negative reports during low crowd times as well).

So your statement read, to me as "Very true. It just seems that some only wish to factor [crowd levels] on positive reports.

So my response is saying that the same can be said both ways - that some only wish to factor crowd levels on negative reports as well.

But the main point of my post was that, yes, it's about time that crowd levels factor in equally on all reports, as they do have a big impact on using the system.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I quoted the part of your post I was responding to with that statement. I then finished my post by agreeing with the portion of your statement that I didn't quote.



The "it" here, in the context of the conversation, seems to be referring to crowd levels, given the quote of mine that you were responding to


So your statement read, to me as "Very true. It just seems that some only wish to factor [crowd levels] on positive reports.

So my response is saying that the same can be said both ways - that some only wish to factor crowd levels on negative reports as well.

But the main point of my post was that, yes, it's about time that crowd levels factor in equally on all reports, as they do have a big impact on using the system.

Okay. Fair enough it sounded like you were counter pointing a point I was not making. And I just wanted to be clear that it it should be factored in both scenarios.

 

[BugsDaddy]

If all I wanted to read was Rainbow and Unicorn posts, I would do that. You could do the same thing.

I am not going to change my opinions or what I post on these boards for fear ruining someone's vacation. If someone is that easily influenced, then they shouldn't go anywhere on vacation.

Since the implementation of FP+, I have learned to lower my expectations. I will pay more and experience fewer attractions due to the implementation of the ride rationing system called FP+.

I think people should be able to separate fact from opinion but I would say I have seen a growing number of posts lately from people who only heard doom and gloom going into their vacation and found it wasn't as bad as was being described or actually worked very well for them. There is a middle ground between the "rainbow and the unicorns" and constant negativity. This middle ground is where most of us live.

 

[cakebaker]

We have lowered our expectations as to what to expect, and will continue to do so until we see it differently based on our own experiences, not what anyone on these boards tells us we should do....sheesh !

I don't think anyone is trying to change your mind in any way. No one is trying to convince someone who has made up their mind that they don't like FP+ for whatever reason, that they should. The point here, at least to me, is that when you give generic quips such as "lower your expectations", that may well be bad advice based on what the person is needing out of their vacation and what factors the person giving that advice considered when deciding that their expectations needed lowering.

 

[Luckybee]

I don't think anyone is trying to change your mind in any way. No one is trying to convince someone who has made up their mind that they don't like FP+ for whatever reason, that they should. The point here, at least to me, is that when you give generic quips such as "lower your expectations", that may well be bad advice based on what the person is needing out of their vacation and what factors the person giving that advice considered when deciding that their expectations needed lowering.

But it may also be bad advice to tell them they will be able to do everything that they could do before or that they will be able to accomplish what they expect depending on their touring style etc. All of which we've heard here repeatedly in one form or another. None of us can predict what will and will not work for various folks.

 

[BugsDaddy]

But it may also be bad advice to tell them they will be able to do everything that they could do before or that they will be able to accomplish what they expect depending on their touring style etc. All of which we've heard here repeatedly in one form or another. None of us can predict what will and will not work for various folks.

The difference is that I am not seeing anyone giving the advice you referenced above but have seen multiple people with the "lower your expectations" advice.

 

[cakebaker]

But it may also be bad advice to tell them they will be able to do everything that they could do before or that they will be able to accomplish what they expect depending on their touring style etc. All of which we've heard here repeatedly in one form or another. None of us can predict what will and will not work for various folks.

That would be equally bad advice, but no one is doing anything even close to that. If I missed those posts, I'd appreciate you pointing those out to me.

 

[Mikie]

Is anyone else replaying in their mind the Cinderella scene where the stepsisters were incensed that stepmother told Cinderella she could go to the ball? "Mother, did you hear what you just said?" "Yes. . . I said IF. . . "

As long as we reveal our "IF" people should be able to discern what works for them. . . You can't do as much as before "if" you arrive at X, expect to ride l, m, n, o, p. You can have a great and equally productive trip "if" your tour this way.

Looks like hiding the "IF" may be a big part of the problem.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I don't know anyone outside these boards who would talk about Disney in such a way that... "Oh we'll like it there, but we've lowered our expectations enough that we can meet them, given how downhill the parks have gone in recent years due to FP+"..

I do. Pretty much everyone - outside these boards - has expressed that opinion to me. These vary from: first timers (who could not believe they had to pre-plan so much), long-time WDW visitors (who did not believe the FP changes until they experienced them in person), to CM's, to MANY strangers in the parks beside us (letting out unsolicited comments all day).

I believe you and some others do like the changes. I'm also optimistic that plenty of folks would like to see further drastic improvements to the FP+ system.

 

[MrInfinity]

*The expectation that I'd have a great trip was never in question.

Great!

You have to remember, Ariel, the original "recommendation" that kicked this thread into the gutter was...

Don't expect the same type of experience that you had on previous trips. I think the best advice I've read on these boards is to lower your expectations.

That's very different than your approach. You went about things differently, you changed what you wanted to do, and your priorities. That's what I did.

We still expect to have great trips including any time at Disney that we spend.

Great! It's nice to hear you don't go into the trips planning to have less of a good trip, you just adapted your touring strategy.

But if I went in to Disney expecting to do the same thing at Disney as in previous years I would be unhappy afterward.

Yeah. Fortunately for us, it wasn't a problem to do the same thing as in previous years, or we would have been unhappy w it. Really the whole reason I speak positively about FP+ is because it worked for us. It got us on as much as before, only it felt less pressured, more spontaneous, and more guaranteed. If it did not do those things, I would not say I liked it as much.

 

[Cals dad]

I don't get the whole spontaneity thing. What was so spontaneous about showing up at a random park, then going to a fastpass machine and having it spit out a predetermined time for you to return? You had to schedule everything around that hour window. At least now, if you plan early enough, you can pick the 3 things you really want, space them out, bunch them up, whatever you want. You can still be spontaneous with the rest of your time. On a quick day trip last year, I got the 3 of us fastpasses at 30 days out. We arrived at 6 pm after an afternoon at Blizzard Beach, used fastpasses for Splash Mtn, BTMRR, and 7DMT. We spontaneously went on the carpet ride, PotC, Haunted Mansion, IASW, Carousel, VotLM, Dumbo, Barnstormer, Teacups, speedway, People Mover, and Space Ranger Spin. On the way out, we caught the MSEP that started at park closing. If we had to wait in line for the rides we got passes for, we'd maybe been able to do half of what we did. There is no way under the old system that we would have gotten any passes at all arriving as late in the day as we did.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't get the whole spontaneity thing. What was so spontaneous about showing up at a random park, then going to a fastpass machine and having it spit out a predetermined time for you to return? You had to schedule everything around that hour window.

All I can say is that this is not how it felt to us. I respect that it did for you, and I'm glad FP+ works better for how you tour.

There is no way under the old system that we would have gotten any passes at all arriving as late in the day as we did.

Getting FP+ for later in the day when you haven't been in the park all day long is definitely one of the main benefits of FP+. For our family, that was really the only benefit to us.

 

[Angel Ariel]

There's two different expectations being discussed here

1. the expectations of what one can get done while there
2. The expectation that one will have a wonderful trip

Changing #1 doesn't mean one is also changing #2. Conversely, #2 staying the same doesn't mean that #1 didn't change. I don't think anyone pays for a vacation where they are going into it expecting a horrible trip.

 

[MrInfinity]

There's two different expectations being discussed here

1. the expectations of what one can get done while there
2. The expectation that one will have a wonderful trip

Changing #1 doesn't mean one is also changing #2. Conversely, #2 staying the same doesn't mean that #1 didn't change. I don't think anyone pays for a vacation where they are going into it expecting a horrible trip.

Ariel, I think ppl get the subtle distinction you're trying to make. Let's look at the original recommendation:

I am paying more and experiencing considerably less since the implementation of FP+. For me, the biggest question I have is will I still think a WDW vacation has value for my family. I honestly don't know. Don't expect the same type of experience that you had on previous trips. I think the best advice I've read on these boards is to lower your expectations.

The context reads that this person is experiencing considerably less, questioned the value of a WDW vacation, and recommended to not expect the same type of experience from previous trips. The context was not... "oh you should plan to not ride something several times, but because of FP+ you'll still have as good a time as ever". The context was clearly indicating otherwise.

I really did disagree w that. I don't think one will necessarily "fail to get the same type of experience" whether one gets on fewer rides or not. Nor do I think getting on fewer rides is a given, or know how many or what kind of rides the OP was used to. At a minimum, I would ask for clarification as to what he used to do before telling him he should expect to do less. Is that fair?

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I
That is why, when I ask about dates of trips or how someone approached the parks, I am not questioning anyone's truthfulness. I am just trying to make the report as useful as possible, both for me and others planning their trips.

I don't find general statements like "you have to lower your expectations" to be helpful at all because that depends on what you want to get out of your trip in the first place. If you expect to ride the park's most popular attractions multiple times, or to enter the park at 11 AM and find short standby lines, you probably do have to lower those expectations. But, if your goal is to experience as many attractions as possible once while also enjoying other things in the parks with your family and friends, and you are willing to take advice for efficient touring plans, your expectations can and should be met and exceeded.

I think this is party a matter of nuance, but I'm not super fond of posting very specific travel dates. I am willing to say, I've been going to WDW since 1972, that I have been every month of the year except June, including both many trips over major holidays, and many trips during low-crowd seasons. I find it insulting to suggest that my dislike is due to a lack of touring efficiently.

I also don't say it is just FP+ that has lowered our expectations. I lament the new ADR cancelation fee, and the loss of the AAA Diamond Parking Pass, among other changes. I've only been using the parking pass for a few years, but I think that relationship with AAA goes WAY back.

I've been to WDW enough times, that we have explored nearly everything WDW has to offer. Suffice it to say, mini golf is not the reason we go to Disney. If we ever do want mini-golf in Orlando, we would likely go to one of the fine off-WDW places. Yes, We've also explored beyond WDW many times.

I find Disney's new attitude troubling. They are not enticing guests with added experiences, but using a negative-experience approach to cajole guests into exploring their lesser offerings. Yikes! Forgive me, but I will call a spade a spade. Their new approach is not consistent with their history.

Their new policies have reduced the quality of the experience my family has had, or could have, at WDW. I truly hope Disney is listening to their customers concerns.

 

[MrInfinity]

I also don't say it is just FP+ that has lowered our expectations. I lament the new ADR cancelation fee, and the loss of the AAA Diamond Parking Pass, among other changes. I've only been using the parking pass for a few years, but I think that relationship with AAA goes WAY back.

Their new policies have reduced the quality of the experience my family has had, or could have, at WDW. I truly hope Disney is listening to their customers concerns.

At least that's honest.
So what was the Diamond Parking Pass? I've never had a need to park diamonds at WDW. No really, what was it?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Ariel, I think ppl understand the subtle distinction you're trying to make. Read the original recommendation

I did read the original recommendation - including the bolded:

I've got FP's booked for the evenings on our upcoming trip. The mornings and early afternoons are going to be spent exploring other Orlando area attractions. I didn't mind booking FP's, but now every time I try accessing my account Stitch comes on to tell me someone ate the page. I am really looking forward to our upcoming vacation, even though I know it is a total paradigm shift. I am paying more and experiencing considerably less since the implementation of FP+. For me, the biggest question I have is will I still think a WDW vacation has value for my family. I honestly don't know.

Don't expect the same type of experience that you had on previous trips. I think the best advice I've read on these boards is to lower your expectations.

The poster made it quite clear that they were looking forward to their upcoming trip, even though the experience would be different. Her use of paradigm shift indicates a similar thought, IMO, to my post explaining how my plans changed to accommodate the restrictions of the system. She just worded it differently.

The context was not... "oh you should plan to not ride something several times, but because of FP+ you'll still have as good a time as ever". The context was clearly indicating otherwise.

Given" the above bolded where the poster indicated they were looking forward to their trip, I would disagree with this.

I don't think one will necessarily "fail to get the same type of experience" whether one gets on fewer rides or not. Nor do I think getting on fewer rides is even an absolute, or how many or what kidn of rides the OP was used to.

I didn't (and don't) read "fail to get the same type of experience" to mean "you won't have as good of a trip." Clearly that poster is still looking forward to a good trip. It was clearly referring to, IMO, not having the same in-park experience. I read it and immediately related to it, as DH and I most definitely did *not* have the same type of experience in November. It was rather unlike any other trip we'd taken. If I had expected the same type of experience in November as on previous trips, I would have been disappointed. We didn't, we adjusted accordingly, which facilitated us having a great time. So while we did "fail to have the same type of experience," the experience we had was still wonderful.

 

[JimmyV]

Changing how you meet your expectations... vs... lowering your expectations... you did the former. not the latter.

No. She changed her expectations. And worked to meet her new expectations.

 

[JimmyV]

So what was the Diamond Parking Pass? I've never had a need to park diamonds at WDW. No really, what was it?

Front of The Parking Lot access for AAA members. A specially reserved area right near the handicapped spots.