I know I'm late to the game...

[clambert1273]

We just got back Saturday - I had everything planned out and we stuck pretty much to plan but winged some of it. We had excellent luck with our FP+ and once I used the 3, then I was able to snag more for what we wanted so it worked out in the end.

I am VERY much a planner so with or without FP+, I would have had my parks and day planned any way lol It is just how I have to have things otherwise I feel too out of control ... sad I know but it worked out well and I had planned very well so it was a very enjoyable trip with LOTS of meet & greets (some of them random and unplanned lol).

 

[Cormoran]

First, I agree that it makes sense to focus these discussions on MK. Because of the lower number of rides at the other parks, it shouldn't be difficult for anyone to do each of them that he/she wants to do with an efficient plan and effective use of FPs. So, at those parks, much of the dissatisfaction people have with FP+ relates to being able to do some of the major attractions multiple times, and I think that's a different discussion than longer standby lines.

Thank you for providing the dates of your recent trips. If you look at the observed crowd levels for those dates on Touring Plans, they might explain that at least part (if not most) of the reason you saw longer standby lines at the MK on your trip in 2014 is that those days had generally larger crowds than your trips in 2012 and 2013.

Here are the Touring Plans actual crowd levels for the resort and the MK for those dates:

3/31/14 6/7
4/1/14 5/7
4/2/14 5/6
4/3/14 5/7
4/4/14 4/6

4/20/13 6/6
4/21/13 4/4
4/22/13 3/2
4/23/13 3/5
4/24/13 2/2
4/25/13 3/5
4/26/13 4/5
4/27/13 6/5

4/17/12 1/5
4/18/12 2/3
4/19/12 3/3
4/20/12 5/5
4/21/12 5/4
4/22/12 4/4
4/23/12 1/5
4/24/12 5/5

Of course, I don't know if the crowd levels on any of these days were affected by weather. But, regardless, the crowd levels at the MK for every day of your 2014 trip were at 6 and 7 and the MK crowd levels for every day but one of your 2012 and 2013 trips were 5 or less, with some 2's and 3's thrown in.

Both Touring Plans and easywdw have said that, because of overall increasing crowd levels, crowd level numbers do not compare directly from one year to the next. For example, a crowd level 5 (average) in 2015 will translate to more people than a crowd level 5 a few years ago. I recall Josh at easywdw saying something to the effect that a crowd level 2 day in 2014 would be about the same as a crowd level 5 day 4 or 5 years ago. Therefore, you would have to expect that a crowd level 6 or 7 day in 2014 will have had a noticeably larger crowd than a level 3 or 4 day in 2012.

For another comparison, I looked at Touring Plans' average wait times for the 3 MK rides you mentioned, IASW, POC, and HM. For the one crowd level 6 day from your two trips (4/20/13) the average wait times were 20, 22, and 28 minutes. For the two crowd level 6 days from your trip in 2014, the average wait times for 4/2 were 21, 26, and 28 minutes and for 4/4 were 16, 26, and 29 minutes. The average waits on the crowd 7 days were higher; the highest was 3/31/14 at 27, 33, and 38. If you visited on one of the crowd level 2 days in 2013 you would have seen much shorter lines at these rides. On 4/24/13, one of the crowd level 2 days, the average wait times were 7, 8, and 13 minutes.

Touring Plans does not report actual observed wait time data as far back as 2012 so I can't compare those. But, I think the most significant thing in all of this is that the average waits for days of your 2013 trip (before FP+) are pretty much the same as the days of your 2014 trip with the same crowd level.

To be clear, I am not saying that FP+ has not had any impact on any standby lines. It is also very possible that standby lines have increased between 2014 and 2015. And I don't know if comparing other dates with similar crowd levels would produce the same results. But, at least in the case of your recent trips, I would conclude that the longer wait times you observed in 2014 were caused mostly by larger overall crowds during those visits. If you had been fortunate enough to visit on dates with crowd levels in the 2-5 range, you probably would have seen crowds similar to what you saw in 2013.

I'm glad you are able to find excuses for the experiences I had on past trips and to basically attempt to dismiss my opinions that FP+ caused the increase in stand by lines.
I'm also glad you can say that the other parks don't count.
But you know what Wis, regardless of what you say and how much you defend FP+, I still firmly believe that my experiences with longer Stand by lines were related to FP+. Tiering in DHS and Epcot, prevented my family from riding things we had ridden prior to FP+.
But you know what? I still advise guests to lower their expectations, then the will not expect to experience as much as they could prior to FP+. It's a lot nicer when a trip is better than expected than worse than expected.

 

[goofyintoronto]

We like the FP+ because its rare that we would use more than 2 FP's at a park anyway (with the old FP method). We're at the park no more than 5 hours, we take a break, then go to another one. So for us to schedule and use 3 FP's in a park is pretty sweet!

 

[Cormoran]

I have no objection to people posting about pitfalls or challenges relating to Disney trips when they do help others to plan their trips. But, if somebody really wants to help others plan their trips by talking about their experiences, I think it's important to provide at least general information about dates, times, and touring approach so that others can determine what parts of those experiences are relevant to them.

I understand why you want very specific travel information. It allows you to find excuses for why a person has a specific experience. Like you did with the information I provided.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm glad you are able to find excuses for the experiences I had on past trips and to basically attempt to dismiss my opinions that FP+ caused the increase in stand by lines.
I'm also glad you can say that the other parks don't count.
But you know what Wis, regardless of what you say and how much you defend FP+, I still firmly believe that my experiences with longer Stand by lines were related to FP+. Tiering in DHS and Epcot, prevented my family from riding things we had ridden prior to FP+.
But you know what? I still advise guests to lower their expectations, then the will not expect to experience as much as they could prior to FP+. It's a lot nicer when a trip is better than expected than worse than expected.

To be fair, they may be related. But other factors cannot be ignored. They just can't.

That doesn't in anyway discount or diminish your experience. But discounting all factors to blame only the one thing you don't like is not a fair assessment. It would be better, in my opinion, that when experiences are shared that all factors are considered and mentioned.

Now, it is your report and you may report as you see fit, but blaming others for your personal omission of information is unfair. You want to blame FP+, have at it. But don't blame others for wanting to know if there were other factors that could have (and turns out did) impact your experience to properly assess if we need to lower our expectations to the degree you have determined yours needed lowering.

While you felt limited to 15 rides, I am sure other park goers easily rode 20 or 25. What did they do differently than you? These are things that I would wonder that have nothing to do with diminishing your experience and everything to do with seeking strategies that you may have overlooked by choice or circumstance.

Clearly refusing to wait in a line longer than 20-30 minutes will be a great impediment to begin able to ride rides, especially on a crowded day. Nothing wrong with you deciding that for your family. But the self imposed restriction limited your opportunities.

 

[BugsDaddy]

I don't think anyone is "trying to discourage" anyone. At least Im not and I certainly haven't seen very much of that. Imho I think posters fall into different categories of personality types. There seem to be those who don't wish to hear about anything bad for fear that it might discourage others and those who want to know about the good and bad because travel is like life and nothing is perfect.
I realized on another thread how distinct and separate in thinking the 2 groups are. Which is why you'll never get agreement between them.
I cannot imagine going to any destination without both perspectives, and let me tell you dh and I have travelled a lot throughout the world. We have never gone anywhere thinking of the " glass half empty " but equally have never gone to any destination without consideration of the pitfalls. We have had amazing trips, great trips, good trips, and if I really stretch it I think 1 or 2 not so great. Even in the amazing trips if asked(and I am often because of our travel experience) I outline both positives and negatives for a prospective traveller. I wouldn't want less from someone else.
Many people here have been disappointed with fp+ just like others have had good experiences. Both sides have the right to express their opinions. But it really does become old when those who don't like it are repeatedly subjected to comments like " If you go in with a "glass half empty" outlook, you will probably come out the same way" simply because they don't view fp+ as a panacea of all things wonderful and found that it did have a negative impact on their Disney trips.

My point was to allow people to make up their own mind without throwing out a statement like, "you had better lower your expectations". That, in itself, has a negative connotation when someone has spent thousands of dollars on a vacation and in fact, does not apply to everyone. There are plenty of people that were concerned before making their trip but came back with a positive opinion of FP.

I am not saying that Disney, FP or anything else is above reproach but I think the best thing to do is to supply people with facts and let them make up their own mind based on their own experience.

 

[wisblue]

I'm glad you are able to find excuses for the experiences I had on past trips and to basically attempt to dismiss my opinions that FP+ caused the increase in stand by lines.
I'm also glad you can say that the other parks don't count.
But you know what Wis, regardless of what you say and how much you defend FP+, I still firmly believe that my experiences with longer Stand by lines were related to FP+. Tiering in DHS and Epcot, prevented my family from riding things we had ridden prior to FP+.
But you know what? I still advise guests to lower their expectations, then the will not expect to experience as much as they could prior to FP+. It's a lot nicer when a trip is better than expected than worse than expected.

I'm sorry that you took my comments that way because that isn't what I intended. I did not say that the other parks didn't count, but I just limited my comments to the MK because that is what you were talking about when you talked about how many rides you were able to do. Expanding the discussion to other parks isn't likely to change much. If tiering kept you from doing both Soarin and Test Track, or TSMM and RNRC, that is a different discussion than long standby lines at the MK, and we don't need to resurrect that one.

I am not trying to change your opinion about what caused the longer standby lines that you saw on your 2014 trip. But, I am providing some factual information that might help others form their own opinions. I think many people would expect crowds and wait times to be longer during the first week of April, even when Easter is later in April, than during later April for trips that begin a week or more after Easter. Because so many school districts take their spring breaks at different times these days, the spring break season is more spread out than it was years ago.

 

[cakebaker]

I understand why you want very specific travel information. It allows you to find excuses for why a person has a specific experience. Like you did with the information I provided.

It's a reasonable explanation for at least part of the reason you experienced longer lines on your last trip, not excuses. You simply have to factor in crowd levels and if you don't then you don't really know why things happened the way they did. If you don't want to consider crowd levels and the effect they have on a visit, you certainly don't have to. But you aren't going to be able to draw reasonable conclusions as to the reasons for your experience.

If you want to keep the specifics of your trip private so that no one will know there were other factors involved other than just FP+, that's absolutely your right. As for me, I want to consider everything before I decide where to lay the blame for any problems and I think people looking for advice would want that as well.

 

[DizzzyLizzzy]

Just got back last night from a 4 day trip with 2 teenagers. We only used 3 of our 12 fast passes. Sometimes we were tired or hungry or just didn't feel like going to the park where our fast pass was. While it was great for the ones we used, I don't think it was worth all the time and effort of planning. Next time we will only fast pass absolute must do rides and leave the rest to fate. We still got on everything we wanted to.

 

[wisblue]

I understand why you want very specific travel information. It allows you to find excuses for why a person has a specific experience. Like you did with the information I provided.

It isn't that at all.

For example, when I said that I was able to ride Soarin, Test Track, and Mission Space all without FPs in a little more than an hour after the park opened, I gave the date and explained that we were at the gate at 8:30 for a 9:00 opening, went right to Soarin when we were let in at 8:50, rode TT through the single rider line, and then went to MS. That gives anyone all the information they need to decide if that approach would work for them. If someone doesn't want to get to the park that early or can't or doesn't want to do single rider at TT, they can and should discount my experience as being of no value to them. Or maybe the same approach won't work as well on a crowd level 9 or 10 day as it did on the crowd level 5 or 6 day when I was there.

I offer my experiences for what they are worth for people to take or leave as they see fit, not to change anyone's mind about FP+.

 

[MainMom]

I'm glad you are able to find excuses for the experiences I had on past trips and to basically attempt to dismiss my opinions that FP+ caused the increase in stand by lines.
I'm also glad you can say that the other parks don't count.
But you know what Wis, regardless of what you say and how much you defend FP+, I still firmly believe that my experiences with longer Stand by lines were related to FP+. Tiering in DHS and Epcot, prevented my family from riding things we had ridden prior to FP+.
But you know what? I still advise guests to lower their expectations, then the will not expect to experience as much as they could prior to FP+. It's a lot nicer when a trip is better than expected than worse than expected.

I have not been to WDW since the new FP+ was introduced. When I first started planning for our trip in July I would read statements like yours, to lower my expectations because I wouldn't experience as much as I could prior, and think we were doomed. Then, after more reading and research, came to realize that your statement doesn't apply to me. We don't try to do rides multiple times, we don't arrive late, we don't wing it. So, for someone who is new to this system, whether they are new to WDW or not, your statement puts at immediate negativity on FP+ without even knowing what the expectations are in the first place.

 

[BugsDaddy]

I have not been to WDW since the new FP+ was introduced. When I first started planning for our trip in July I would read statements like yours, to lower my expectations because I wouldn't experience as much as I could prior, and think we were doomed. Then, after more reading and research, came to realize that your statement doesn't apply to me. We don't try to do rides multiple times, we don't arrive late, we don't wing it. So, for someone who is new to this system, whether they are new to WDW or not, your statement puts at immediate negativity on FP+ without even knowing what their expectations are in the first place.

Good post. This is exactly what I was saying in a previous post. Give the people the facts and let them make up their own mind.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Factoring crowd levels into the discussion is important when discussing FP+ experiences - both when there are negative FP+ reports during high crowd times as well as positive FP+ reports during low crowd times (and positive reports during high crowd times, and negative reports during low crowd times as well).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Factoring crowd levels into the discussion is important when discussing FP+ experiences - both when there are negative FP+ reports during high crowd times as well as positive FP+ reports during low crowd times (and positive reports during high crowd times, and negative reports during low crowd times as well).

Very true. It just seems that some only wish to factor it on positive reports. Time for fair reports across the board for all experiences and allow readers to draw their own conclusions as they may apply to their trip planning.

 

[disneyseniors]

Angel Ariel, thanks for a terrific post!! One of the best out there, and mirrors my sentiments exactly I was all set to hate fp+ before our last trip in November. However, I found that we really liked having our favorites locked in at a time that we wanted. We were flexible with the times but 90% of the time got around where we wanted, in the am before lunch. We only have 2 or so must do's in each park, so weren't stressed out with the other fp's we got. We either ignored them if we didn't want to do them and did what we wanted to do. We don't have children, teenagers, so our experience is
different than most. I can see how this new system would be a guessing game for them:ie, tired children on their time, not fast passes, tantrums, rain, temperature, hunger, naps, etc, etc. Also teenagers want to "do their own thing" and it would be difficult to set times for them, I think. I saw this when we went with daughter and 2 teenagers last year. It was a bust for them most of the time. Soooo, I guess that it's all in your prospective of your vacation.
I know that our views on fp+changed completely, but that's just US, and not good for everyone. We did whatever we wanted to on our trip even with fp's, so that didn't change for us. Plus we had our few favorites locked in. I can see a lot of problems with this system, as mentioned above for families. We got our coveted fp for 7dmt on the evening of our last day and anxiously awaited our date and time. However, we had a drenching all day downpour at MK that day and nite. We walked through 2 inches of water most of the time. So, we didn't get to ride that ride on that day. However, we got into the standby line a few days before by chance, waited 60 minutes, and got the chance to ride it. I'm so glad we decided to take fate into our own hands and just go with the standby. I've been to Disney several times, and I remember when standby was all we had. We ALL waited in standby for however long it took, or bypassed it for another time.
We love WDW, and part of our vacation is the magic, smells, sights, architecture, cm's, riding old favorites, and just being immersed in all things Disney! So, we've adjusted our touring slightly for fp's and it works for us. I wish there was an easier answer for all families, but no one system will work perfectly. I really think that Disney will tweek this fp system and try to work out the bugs for everyone. We are going back next Nov. and I will work out our fp's then with the new knowledge of actually using the system last year. Adding fp's isn't too much different than scheduling specific park days (which we always did anyway), and adding adr's. I hope that the OP will glean the good stuff out of these posts and have a great Disney vacation anyway. Afterall, it's Disney

 

[Luckybee]

Clearly refusing to wait in a line longer than 20-30 minutes will be a great impediment to begin able to ride rides, especially on a crowded day. Nothing wrong with you deciding that for your family. But the self imposed restriction limited your opportunities.

But that self imposed restriction was quite easy to accomplish before fp+ and as a matter of fact was the norm at the times we went.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But that self imposed restriction was quite easy to accomplish before fp+ and as a matter of facet was the norm at the times we went.

Regardless, more would have been possible on that day. The self imposed limit still limited in either system.

We have self imposed limits as well as I am sure other travelers do. It would be suspect to blame it on something I am not fond of without considering all factors and failing to mention that I am disregarding those factors in an effort to strengthen my opinion on what I didn't like. Obviously my experience doesn't change, but how I use it to influence others would be greatly altered.

Also--quite easy again depends upon crowds, doesn't it?

 

[Angel Ariel]

It just seems that some only wish to factor it on positive reports.

The same can be said going both ways. I agree that it's time for the standard to be applied fairly in all directions.

 

[Cormoran]

I have not been to WDW since the new FP+ was introduced. When I first started planning for our trip in July I would read statements like yours, to lower my expectations because I wouldn't experience as much as I could prior, and think we were doomed. Then, after more reading and research, came to realize that your statement doesn't apply to me. We don't try to do rides multiple times, we don't arrive late, we don't wing it. So, for someone who is new to this system, whether they are new to WDW or not, your statement puts at immediate negativity on FP+ without even knowing what the expectations are in the first place.

If all I wanted to read was Rainbow and Unicorn posts, I would do that. You could do the same thing.

I am not going to change my opinions or what I post on these boards for fear ruining someone's vacation. If someone is that easily influenced, then they shouldn't go anywhere on vacation.

Since the implementation of FP+, I have learned to lower my expectations. I will pay more and experience fewer attractions due to the implementation of the ride rationing system called FP+.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The same can be said going both ways. I agree that it's time for the standard to be applied fairly in all directions.

I see you quoted only part of my post. I am not sure what you mean.

What I see is people relaying experiences and observation of crowds. What I don't see is folks so adament that FP+ is to be blamed acknowledging the crowds.