I just sent the asst. principal an EMail at 3:30AM! What have I done?(long)

[gymnasticsmom68]

I'm curious what you think should happen to the kids who were actually close to the cut off point? Do you actually believe if you make enough noise they SHOULD allow your daughter to take the class? I have to wonder why you think you're daughter is so much more deserving than the other kids, who might I add, did better than your daughter on the test. If she didn't do as well as you 'think' she should have because of the teacher she had this year, what makes you think she's ready for the class? I'm afraid your argument makes little sense.

As for moving to a different school district with lower standards so she can get in the honors program, won't she just be 'everybody else' at that point? That also makes no sense. It's hard for me to imagine that you are an honors teacher, I'm curious how you deal with the students who are 'allowed' in your class, but really have no right to be there because they didn't make the grade, but Mom made a phone call.

I really think you are pushing her where she doesn't need to be. She's not ready, I think you should deal with that. Hire her a tutor if you think she can do better.

 

[Winka]

Originally posted by Rock'n Robin
I also don't want them to feel they can make these decisions affecting my child without knowing my opinion! As a teacher I know the parents that are known get a little more consideration than the ones who sit back and let the school make the decisions. It may not go my way, and that's fine, but I want them to know that I know the way the system really works.

This is kind of disturbing to me, too. So, it's true-the squeakiest wheel gets the oil? And all those parents who don't know (or otherwise, don't subscribe to) "the way the system works" don't earn their children this preferential treatment?

If you had such problems with this poorly qualified math teacher, did you make a point of making that known more publicly amongst other parents or did you just quietly send e-mails to the administration hoping to just get YOUR child out of this inferior class?

 

[gemmie214]

Why didn't you hire the tutor when you thought she had "substandard" teachers for the past 2 years? That way she would have gotten the "correct" teaching and would have aced the test, right?

 

[danacara]

May I ask, what does your daughter want to do? Is she disappointed? Does she know the whole story? Is she mentioning any desire to take the advanced class?

I kind of agree with you regarding the weaker districts. From a scholarship money perspective, far better to be a star at an average district than a middle-of-the-roader at a star district. That's not usually true from an admissions perspective though, so take heart.

 

[ripleysmom]

Robin, one other thing.....Even with bad teachers if she really had the aptitude she would have been closer to the cutoff.

Being so far from the cutoff really is an indicator that she probably would have had a difficult time keeping up. I can understand that you want her to be challenged but you will probably find that she will receive those challenges in the regular curriculum.

 

[phamton]

I doubt that by the time she gets out of college that anyone will care whether she took pre-algebra in 7th grade or in 8th grade.

 

[aprincessmom]

However, I really feel she's been cheated the past two years by having a bad teacher for 5th grade and the least qualified math teacher in 6th grade. She got such high math scores in grade 3 and 4 (honors on the state proficiency), what happened?

Burgeoning interest in boys, interest in other subjects, difficulty in understanding new concepts, disinterest in math...there are any number of reasons that her math scores have changed.

If her teachers were truly that bad as you say for the past two years, that would have been the time to really pull rank and get her moved or, as others have suggested, get her outside tutoring to keep her skills sharp and advancing at the pace you want them to.

And I might add, I'm saying "the pace you want them to" because you haven't mentioned how your daughter feels about this whole thing. In the end, it is your daughter's choice as to how much or how little she wishes to invest in her own education. No where in your post do you state how your daughter feels about this.

The reality is she missed the cut by a large margin. I think it does a great disservice to the children who did earn their places by doing what was required to have your child be able to bypass the system and become part of their class. Your daughter knew what she needed to do to get into that class. She didn't do it for whatever reason and the lesson that rules don't apply equally to everyone is not one I'd want to teach my child.

 

[buddy&wooz]

To succeed in honors classes kids have to have both ability and drive. If they don't have both, it's not fair to the kids that do. Honors classes are designed to move quickly. Especially in math, it's expected that the lesson is taught, the kids comprehend, they move on. No stopping and reviewing and waiting for the class to catch up. It's not a place for kids who want to "try". It's a place for kids who know they will succeed.

I agree with those suggesting tutoring. If you think she's not being challenged enough, sign her up for an outside course. If she's truly honors material I'm sure the HS will place her appropriately.

 

[my3kids]

A lot depends on the student as a whole, I think, and not one test score. She has been getting A's in math? Is identified gifted? Scored in the 95th percentile on a nationally normed test? BUT had ONE bad test on the one exam that counted? If all that is true, then I have no problem with pursuing entrance into the class, or a retest. But if the 70% is indictive of the student as a whole, then yes, the others are right. It wouldn't be fair to those who excel in math to be taught at a lower level. Consider everything about your child, and if she really is an excellent math student who did poorly on a single test, then stick with trying to get her into the class. Likewise, if a student is mediocre student who happened to ace the entrance exam, yet has consistntly scored in the 70's and gotten C's in math all along, they don't belong in the class based on a single score.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

You guys all have valid points. I haven't had any call back from the AP yet (perhaps she noticed I sent it at 3:30 and figured I was drunk or something ) but I think whatever way this goes, I have gotten some really good advice. I've found myself sinking into this hyper-competitive mentality here--how often have I bemoaned this mentality and now it keeps me awake at night because I'm afraid Kelly will be left behind! As Cali said, I could use this productively by finding some volunteer opportunities for her--she has mentioned the Humane society as her current career choice is veterinarian--or singer (typical 12 year old). She might play volleyball, she is starting voice lessons because she sings like a bird, she has so many talents that I could focus on. Thanks for the perspective.
The fact is I had no IDEA this math teacher was weak until I talked to the counselor and HE told me she was on the weak team! I just noticed the grades she was getting, As and Bs, and the homework was being graded in a consistent manner. There is no way to compare with other teams unless you know parents of those kids, and most of her good friends happened to get on the same team. Believe me, if there was a bad teacher I wouldn't just be focusing on my own child. I see at this HS how kids are harmed by weak teaching, but some of the teachers are protected by union rules, etc. (here I am biting the hand that feeds me!) The only way to get rid of a weak teacher is to do it early on before tenure and multi-year contracts kick in. As for her teacher last year, there were 3 classes of 28 kids each and no switches were allowed.
Phamtom, another good point. In college who will care, as long as she focuses from this point?
Robin M.

 

[luvdzny]

I don't understand why you feel the school did anything wrong. You stated the cutoff point was 86 and she scored in the 70's. That is clearly below the cutoff point, why should she be allowed to have special treatment? I am sure there are lots of kids that scored as high as your daughter and even higher. Should all these kids be allowed to take the honors class or just the ones who have parents that complain. If every parent "spoke up" every time it seemed something unfair was happening to their child in school the administrators would never be able to enforce the rules. If she is allowed to take the class what about the child that scored 1 point lower than she did, can that child take the class as well? Where should the cutoff point be? A gifted child is able to learn and excel despite the circumstances around them, if they really want to. Maybe she is excellent at the earlier math skills but these new concepts are harder for her. I think the school did exactly what they should have done, she scored below the cutoff point so she did not make the cut. Would you want a surgeon operating on you if he failed his board exams by 10 points or more? There are cutoffs for a reason.

 

[Aimeedyan]

I don't think she belongs in that honors class... especially with a score so much lower than the cut off. THe only way to make it fair would be to add all the kids in between her and the cut off, and that would be a huge amount of people to add into classes. What about those other parents, that want the same for thier children?Or that child that got an 85 on the test and barely missed it?

It bothers me that people feel that their child must be in honors programs, etc etc in order to get into colleges and get scholarships. Those that I grew up with that actually went to really competitive colleges and received great scholarships never had a problem getting into honors programs and WANTED to be in them. Their parents weren't bargaining to get them put in, and making those decisions for them. There was something different about them.

You can easily get accepted into many fine colleges without honor classes. I have never had a problem going and staying where I wanted to after HS and I took basic courses because I didn't want the extra homework - I wanted to enjoy HS! I also received scholarships for other merits... there are other things out there besides academics.

It just pains me to see parents of 6th graders stressing about their childrens college future... things will always work out, she will have no problems getting into a college when the time comes, and you dont have to have honors classes and such to make that happen.

I agree that you should have the right to challenge them on this, but I don't agree she should eb allowed to try. Seems to me you'll be setting her up to fail. Bad teacher or not, truly gifted children usually excel on testing regardless... they always make a good showing =)

Good luck to you.

 

[Ragmop]

Here's a wake up call for parents.......most kids are NOT going to get College Scholarship Money, no matter how much the teacher pushes or how hard they try. It's only the tippity top kids who get it.....

and....even if you get it most times the parents STILL have to come up with buckets of $$(My cousin's DD got $12,000 scholarship money to a prestigious Art College in Savannah...trouble is they need to come up with another $12k every year, so she'll have to decline it)


!

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by Rock'n Robin
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate the fact that there are cutoff points--after all I teach senior honors English.

Well then how would you like to have someone in your classes that was only there because their mom complained loudly enough?

If you want your child to learn pre-algebra, you need to either get her a tutor or teach her yourself. Maybe she will make the cut next year.

 

[Sleepy]

Originally posted by Ragmop
Here's a wake up call for parents.......most kids are NOT going to get College Scholarship Money, no matter how much the teacher pushes or how hard they try. It's only the tippity top kids who get it.....

and....even if you get it most times the parents STILL have to come up with buckets of $$(My cousin's DD got $12,000 scholarship money to a prestigious Art College in Savannah...trouble is they need to come up with another $12k every year, so she'll have to decline it)


!

As long as you have the money and the basic standard grades, a college will allow you to attend classes with that tippity top kid with the scholarship. Success has nothing to do with scholarships.....it just makes it easier to pay for the education.

 

[kasar]

RnR: It takes guts to ask a question and then actually READ the responses and take them to heart which you seem to have done. We all know your heart was in the right place, sometimes it takes another opinion to see ourselves clearly.

I've found myself sinking into this hyper-competitive mentality here--how often have I bemoaned this mentality and now it keeps me awake at night because I'm afraid Kelly will be left behind!

That is so true - I think we all find ourselves doing that. I wish it wasn't reality, but in my case I'm guilty of doing it too. Why do we push these poor kids so hard?

In my opinion, caring about the future of our kids IS a good thing. We sometimes just need to take a step back, take a breath and look at the big picture. Kudos to you for doing that.

 

[Lynn CC]

This is what we did for DS who is going to be a Senior in HS.
His school has strict standards on taking advanced placement classes and those are the classes he wants to take in History, English, Calculus, Chemistry etc.... I'm happy to say he has taken them with success, with a lot of dedication on his part.
What we did when he was younger and not quite so "up to standards" was sent him to Sylvan Learning Center for 3 years until he was understood all his weaknesses! It worked and he is such a great student. Maybe there is still time to consider a program like this for your DD. Yes, it's expensive, but......
They may as well get the best education they can get, if they are willing and like learning!
Good Luck!

 

[Rafikifan]

This is on two subjects mentioned. First, I respectfully disagree that scholarships are only given out to the "tippity top" students. Full scholarships, perhaps but very recently I read an article about this very subject and how much money that a LOT of corporations give to kids as scholarship money and not just to kids with 4.0's but kids who make good grades, who are active in things, do volunteer work etc. Coca Cola was an example listed who gives out a lot of $$$ to kids. As I said maybe only $2,000 here, $5,000 there - not enough to fully pay for college tuition but surely helps families. In our state we have the TOPS program and you can receive scholarship money with a g.p.a. of 2.5 according to a letter my dd who will be a freshman in high school next year received. Back to the article I read - there was a very neat story about a girl in high school and to be honest I don't remember where she's from but anyway she researched the scholarship possibilities from corporations and even though she had around a 3.0 she was a well rounded, good kid and applied for a TON of scholarships. She didn't get them all but got enough here and there to pay for at least 3 years of college. This is getting long so I'll tell you my honors math story in the next post.

 

[disykat]

I would NOT fight to get my child in the class. Kids know who passed that test and who didn't. In my jr high there was only one class of biology and one class of algebra - you had to test to get in. A friend of mine didn't make the cut but got in because her mother made a stink. We ALL knew she didn't pass and how she got in - it was quite the gossip for a while. Frankly I think it followed her to high school as well - no one ever figured she earned anything on her own since everyone knew her mom would have finagled it regardless. I always felt sorry for her.

 

[Rafikifan]

Warning: This turned out to be LONG. I understand where the O.P. is coming from, and all school districts are different but I know from working in this school system that a parent's request probably won't change things but parents do have the right to speak up. My dd who is now about to be a freshman in high school in Aug. was put in all the Honors programs her school offered - Math, English, and Lit. 6th grade was fine. In 7th grade we had a weird and saddening experience. My daughter was a cheerleader and they got a new sponsor who was a new teacher that year. She was my dd's honors Math teacher. She had been a FOURTH grade Math teacher prior to coming to our school. She had no experience at being a cheerleader sponsor and was far more caught up in planning her wedding. I understand how important that is but she should have known she was taking on too much by saying she would run the cheerleading squad. Well, she made bad decisions that upset a LOT of parents from the get go. We had one girl on the squad who had a severe peanut allergy. They attended a mini camp and the girl's mom had left a shot that would have to be administered by this sponsor with her if the child had an allergic reaction since even though our squad knew not to bring peanut products in their lunches, there were a lot of squads from all over there. The sponsor decided to leave them unattended to go to lunch somewhere with new hubby and left with the shot in her purse. Sure enough the janitor was seen with a Snickers bar. The girl stayed away and didn't have a reaction but her mom was SOOOO angry! Then some of the moms realized their checks weren't cashed that they had turned in 3 months prior so they decided to investigate and find out howmuch money was in the squad's account since we had done fundraisers etc. It turns out she had "kept for safekeeping" several hundreds of dollars worth of checks AND CASH at her home and hadn't deposited it. 4 moms went to the principal and although she was kept as a teacher, she was removed as the cheerleading sponsor. This happened on a Friday and on Monday (my lucky dd had her 1st hour) she came in and with my dd and another cheerleader in the class told the rest of the class that she had had a weekend from you know where, and it was all those stupid cheerleaders and their moms fault and she was glad to be rid of them and couldn't wait to see them fall on their faces. She then took a tote bag she had received at the mini camp and said, "This is contaminated" and opened her classroom door and threw it in the hall. She did get in trouble for that but I should have known then to ask my dd to be moved out of her class but she was the only honors Math teacher (even though she was very poor at it). DD, after making an A in the class the first 9 weeks, came home with her report card and a C the second nine weeks. Then progress reports were due out 4 weeks later and the teacher calls me and says, "Do you just want to take her out of Honors Math now because she is going to have another C on her progress report and she will get kicked out anyhow." I said, "Surely she can bring it up to a B by the time report cards come out again." She said, "No, there's no way since we only have one more test before then." What? ONE test for the next FIVE weeks? I told her I needed to think about it and get back to her. So, I call and ask for one of the counselors and they were busy so the Asst. Principal took the call. I explained the whole situation and asked if she thought I should take dd out of the class and she was so livid at that teacher! She said, "Mrs. T. is NOT who decides who stays and who goes in Honors Math. That is up to myself or ...... Let me check into this." She called back about an hour later. She was so nice and said, "I have looked at her test scores, the transcript of her grades and she is to STAY in Honors Math. And I talked to Mrs. T. and told her that it is unacceptable for a child to not have enough tests to bring up their grade in the next 5 weeks. I looked at her grades, and there are two that are missing but she is checking into that." That night I got a call from the teacher apologizing since she had "accidentally misplaced a major test and a quiz that my dd had done" and it turns out she had a high B once those grades were put in! I swear that woman must have believed I was one of the mothers who ratted on her but I WASN'T!!! Anyway, to end this novel I'm writing at the end of the year it is determined if they will be in Honors Math for the next year. 2 out of 3 requirements have to met. Scoring high enough on the IOWA test, nothing less than a B on report card, or a teacher's recommendation. There are LOTS of kids who make one, sometimes 2 C's on their report card, but if they score high enough and the teacher knows they just slipped once or twice but can handle it they will give the recommendation. DD sored plenty high on the test, only had the one C from that one 9 week period that I should have challenged at the time because no telling how many "lost" tests there were that time, but of course there was NO recommendation from that teacher. I could have raised a fuss and fought it but honestly that was such a wasted year where my dd learned very little (other non-cheerleading parents complained about her teaching abilities also) in her class and she couldn't explain anything without confusing herself that I decided to just let her do reg. Math in 8th grade (got all A's btw) and she could just do Honors English and Lit.