I do NOT understand!!!

VickiVM said:
First - NOT defending parents who purchase this kind of game, but it's possible that these games are purchased for the older children in family (or maybe even Dad) and unfortunately, the 2nd grader gets to brag about how cool this game is that he has. Which is why even if there are older teenagers in the household, you still have to be careful about games, music, videos that are purchased because it will influence the little ones.

And...on the flip side of the world-going-to-heck-in-a-handbasket notion (which I do often feel), my 2nd grader had two of her classmates spend the night with her a couple of weekends ago and they were just adorable and so well-behaved. They "cooked" dinner for everyone, did their nails and watched Mary Kate and Ashely movies. They used their manners and said 'yes ma'am' and 'thank you' all evening. When I talked to them they answered back in complete sentences. Ok - so they gabbed and giggled til after midnight, but that's what 2nd grade girls do.

On this evening I felt reassured about the future of our youth!

Along the lines of the above post..... I have heard many of my DS8 friend's talking about Grand Theft, 50 cent, Jason movies and -the list goes on. I was at first dumbfounded because these kids all go to a Catholic School and I couldn't believe what these kids parents were letting them watch. That's when I got smart and realized 2nd graders brag about things that they think their peers will be impressed by. Oldest trick in the book. I've brought it up to some of these friends parents in passing and sure enough these kids are just making most of this stuff up to be cool.

You may have a case of coolness on your hands. Don't jump to conclusions just yet! You are taking the words of 2nd graders to heart. :teeth:
 
cstraub said:
Along the lines of the above post..... I have heard many of my DS8 friend's talking about Grand Theft, 50 cent, Jason movies and -the list goes on. I was at first dumbfounded because these kids all go to a Catholic School and I couldn't believe what these kids parents were letting them watch. That's when I got smart and realized 2nd graders brag about things that they think their peers will be impressed by. Oldest trick in the book. I've brought it up to some of these friends parents in passing and sure enough these kids are just making most of this stuff up to be cool.

You may have a case of coolness on your hands. Don't jump to conclusions just yet! You are taking the words of 2nd graders to heart. :teeth:

True, True - Don't ya just love a trash-talking 2'nd grader!

On a funny note - My friend's 4 year old stayed over one afternoon and he was playing some kind of skateboarding video game with my 12 year old and I kept hearing my son say to him "Now, you shouldn't be saying that - it's not appropriate". So I asked my son what he was saying and turns out this little one kept saying "I'm going to kick your ##s". So my son was correcting him. Then later he was playing the same game with my daughter and she tells him "I'm going to beat you" and the 4 year old says "AAAHHHMMM - You're not supposed to say 'beat'!!"
 
I'm afraid to express my opinion here!!! I'm going to get slammed!!

My husband and I are "geeks." Our kids are "geeks." We are all shyish academics that hide out, discuss philosophy and play games. Both of my kids (7 and 8) are complimented frequently for their manners and both are several years ahead in school.

My husband works in the video game industry, and we get TONS, I'm talking thousands of dollars worth, of free games.

While my kids have never played GTA (they weren't interested), and never play any video game unsupervised, they have access to many mature games. We play them together as a family. We also play the kids games like super mario party etc.

When an adult theme comes up, we just discuss it, and so far, have had no problems. Overall, my kids prefer the kiddy games anyway, but that is their choice. I have never seen violent behavior nor copying of any sort out of either of them.

BUT, my friend has two kids, and they were over here and played one of our more violent games. The kids starting acting agitated and jumpy afterwards and then proceeded to get aggressive and to reinact what they had just played in the game. If those were my kids, I would limit their game play choices.

But, I don't think that because I let my kids play Soul Calibur II, that I'm a bad or irresponsible parent.

I don't think that the violence in game or on TV is the cause of violence in the real world. I think that is caused by irresponisble parents. Parents that are too busy to be involved in their kids lives. It is not the fault of the game or the movie, it is the fault of no one supervising or correcting their children.

But, that is just my opinion. And I can totally respect that a parent would not want their child exposed to the types of things in GTA.

/ducks
 
FreshTressa said:
I'm afraid to express my opinion here!!! I'm going to get slammed!!

My husband and I are "geeks." Our kids are "geeks." We are all shyish academics that hide out, discuss philosophy and play games. Both of my kids (7 and 8) are complimented frequently for their manners and both are several years ahead in school.

My husband works in the video game industry, and we get TONS, I'm talking thousands of dollars worth, of free games.

While my kids have never played GTA (they weren't interested), and never play any video game unsupervised, they have access to many mature games. We play them together as a family. We also play the kids games like super mario party etc.

When an adult theme comes up, we just discuss it, and so far, have had no problems. Overall, my kids prefer the kiddy games anyway, but that is their choice. I have never seen violent behavior nor copying of any sort out of either of them.

BUT, my friend has two kids, and they were over here and played one of our more violent games. The kids starting acting agitated and jumpy afterwards and then proceeded to get aggressive and to reinact what they had just played in the game. If those were my kids, I would limit their game play choices.

But, I don't think that because I let my kids play Soul Calibur II, that I'm a bad or irresponsible parent.

I don't think that the violence in game or on TV is the cause of violence in the real world. I think that is caused by irresponisble parents. Parents that are too busy to be involved in their kids lives. It is not the fault of the game or the movie, it is the fault of no one supervising or correcting their children.

But, that is just my opinion. And I can totally respect that a parent would not want their child exposed to the types of things in GTA.

/ducks

I agree with most of the posts on this thread.

You can consider this a "slam" if you want to,
but I have an honest question & comment.
Since you posted your own family's habits
this will come off as personal, but I was going to post
basically the same thing as a generic response to
parents like yourselves until I read your post at the end.

You honestly don't think that anything
you are encouraging your children to play has any
effect on them whatsoever?
Positive or negative?
I am saddened but not surprised that you consider playing any and all video games that are given to you as a 'fun' family activity.

I do not understand (to borrow from the OP) educated parents
that think that viewing & playing violent games
has no impact on their children.
Whether or not children act out exactly
what they have seen means little.
It's the overall exposure and numbness
to sexual violence, or any violence, that will eventually
impact their decision making in later life,
whether it's conscious or sub-conscious.
And just because they're well-mannered means nothing,
just ask Ted Bundy's victims
(and no, I'm not implying that every boy that plays these games
will be a Bundy, but the well-mannered thing is pointless if you're
filling their heads with garbage).

The old 'Frog on the Fire' analogy works best, IMHO:
If you put a frog into a boiling pot, he'll panic and try to jump out.
You put that same frog into a tepid pot,
and only slowly turn up the heat,
and he will never realize what's happening until it's too late.

Regarding the very young children,
I have family & friends that work or teach in HeadStart
and other preschools, and they could tell you for hours
how the teachers lament this "throwaway" generation,
and that's what they call it.
They have multitudes of 3 and 4 year olds who come
in quoting verbatim the latest horror movie, PG-13 teenage sex movie,
and GTA as well as the other violent games.
These same children do not know their ABC's or 123's,
they cannot tell you their address or phone number, etc.
This has nothing to do with bragging,
these children just spout off quote after quote,
and "play" what they've watched at home.
The teachers just about fall over when they get a child
who uses any manners, or who doesn't curse regularly,
and again that's 3 and 4 year olds, both in gov't. preschools
and private preschools.

I get physically ill when I hear, as others have heard,
the stupid line, "You can't keep them innocent forever."
Of course not, but for crying out loud they are children!!
I get it from some family members, my DS is about to turn 3
and I've been asked in the past year if he's "into" Spiderman
and Batman like other similar-age children.
Ummm... NO! Why would we let him watch those movies,
or even the cartoons??
What good will it do him?? eta: at this young age
Now, some parents would argue that there's nothing
bad about watching those things at a young age,
but DH & I just cannot fathom why our son should watch
it instead of being read to, or playing on the floor with
his latest puzzles and toys?

What really bothers me is the emotions that GTA and other
games provoke - and don't tell me they don't!
Is it a good thing to let young children, and especially ones
entering puberty, to play games that will pump their adrenalin,
even arousing them?
Can someone who allows their child to have violence, sex, and the combination be absorbed into their child's mind on a regular basis please
tell me how that is helping your child to become the man or woman
they need to be? That they were created to be??
 

I guess I just have a relaxed attitude about it with my kids. I do think if a kid spends hours watching junk they would become numb. Of course over-exposure makes people numb to things, even adults. But, that is not how we live. We hike, bike, play chess, play poker, swim, rollerskate and all kinds of other stuff. I think kids can become numb to too much parenting too. And I'm not "encouraging" my kids to play anything. We have lots of choices in our house. (GTA is not among them, but other games are)

I doubt it was watching A-team that caused Ted Bundy to become the way he was. It was more likely social isolation...but that is another story.

I think that kids that have behavior problems and dirty mouths, it is because of something deeper than casual exposure to video game violence and swearing. I see lots of kids like that around, but I think it has more to do with bad parenting and parents that are afraid of saying no than from the game. Or it comes from spending hours alone because the parents are too busy with their own lives to listen and enjoy their kids. I don't think a game can have nearly the influence that a child's parents and peers can have on them. I would bet that an older sibling would have way more influence than a game ever could. I am no expert, I just know what I see around me.

I have a "friend" that is not the greatest parent in the world, in my opinion. She spends very little time with her kids and never seems to know when to say "no." Oddly enough...she washes her kids mouths out when they swear and won't let them see or play anything that isn't G rated. Her kids are disrespectful terrors. They are also OBSESSED with anything adult or violent. My own personal theory is the more she tries to hide it from them, the more interested they become. Like oh, wow, my mom doesn't want me to do this...it must be exciting.

Honestly, my kids really aren't very interested in stuff that is above their age level, but it is not through my restriction of it. I would see a problem if my kids were obsessed or watched giant amounts of it. So far, they are really just not interested. They mostly play animal crossing, mario party, nintendogs and the car racing games. I do let them watch movies with adult themes with me though, but usually they lose interest and wander off to go play monopoly. Some of the games we play, many parents would not let their kids play, but those are not the favorite games. I am sure they would promptly become favorites if I were to forbid them.

I have never heard my kids swear. I have never even told them they couldn't or that they weren't supposed to. Again, they just don't even seem interested. Of course, my kids are in no way "cool," lol. Their favorite singer is Johnny Cash (after watching 'walk the line' which was full of swear words and drug use (we talked a lot about the drug use afterwards)) and their idea of a bad word is saying poopy doopy. They are just dorky little kids. They are far from perfect, and I don't claim to be miss amazing mom. But we do spend A LOT of time together as a family and have lots of interesting dialogues with the kids.

So, I don't really have a huge issue with my kids watching casual sex or violence on television or video games. What I do have a problem with is when they MIX sex and violence (like the beating up the hooker in GTA). THAT I have a problem with. I think it can lead to kids being aroused by violence, and that is dangerous.

I almost wonder if that kid's mom even knew he played that game or if he "snuck" it. And if she did know, does she have any idea of what is in it???
In a way, I am more worried about the fact that a child that age is even interested. Why would a second grader be interested in that kind of stuff??

Where are his board games, matchbox cars, and legos??
 
I guess what I'm mostly trying to say is I'm tired of people blaming TV, movies, video games, etc. for kids behavior problems.

Those things are accessories to real life. If a kid spends all their time with those things and it BECOMES their real life...that is not the fault of the TV or the game, it is the fault of the parent.

I would not buy GTA as a gift FOR my kids and I, like the OP, don't understand why someone would.
 
I am about as lenient as it comes when it comes to video games. Been an avid gamer since Pong (yes I'm older). However there is now way my kid's 15,11 will play this game as long as they live in my house (no matter how old). I just believe the game glorifies too many things that are just plain wrong. Oh yeah my DSIL bought it for her 7yo. Parents today just don't put the energy into researching video games/movies. My kids are not allowed to play/see anything that I have not seen.
 
I am about as lenient as it comes when it comes to video games. Been an avid gamer since Pong (yes I'm older). However there is now way my kid's 15,11 will play this game as long as they live in my house (no matter how old). I just believe the game glorifies too many things that are just plain wrong. Oh yeah my DSIL bought it for her 7yo. Parents today just don't put the energy into researching video games/movies. My kids are not allowed to play/see anything that I have not seen.

I agree entirely. I am an 'older' gamer too. We have PCs (laptops), a PlayStation2 & a GameCube, with games for each media, for each 'child' (me, son 11 & daughter 6). Some of the games I have ("Battlefront" series & "Medal of Honor" series come to mind) are 'T' or 'M' rated. I don't have a problem with Sonny playing "Battlefront", but do have a problem with him playing "Medal of Honor". "Battlefront" is based on Star Wars, so the violence would be very hard to construe as being realistic. "Medal of Honor" is based on WW2, and I don't think my son is quite ready to understand what went on during that war beyond what he's getting in his textbooks. I am a military history buff - I just don't think he's ready for it yet. Although "Medal of Honor" (and "Call to Duty") are highly stylized versions of battles, they do represent "real" battles. Probably in another year or two he & I will have that discussion.

Grand Theft Auto series is on a completely different level. Any time there's a game that promotes anti-social behavior, you're going to have kids who gravitate to it. Some kids really can't make that mental/emotional shift between what is 'fake' and what is 'real'. GTA blends it way too closely in my opinion. I've played an older version (Vice City) when my younger brother was visiting - I played it for maybe 2 hours (the kids were much younger than and in bed).

It boils down to: My opinion, my kids, my decision. Other parents aren't nearly as strict as I am. The arguement that "it's just a game" has been resolved in a few court cases (that I know of), to the detriment of the parents and children involved. The all-important 'reality check' just ain't happening in some cases. Either through the parents not researching game contents and making a legit decision, ignorance (Granny doesn't have a clue about the game, but it's on Johnny's wish list and it's in the price range), caving in to the kid, irresponsibility - who knows.

Back in my day the arguement was that parents didn't research what their kids' music was about. You don't hear too much about that (until the new Eminem CD gets 'leaked' on the Internet). Video game violence is another of the press' hot topics. It'll die down in a few years - or else the problem will skyrocket beyond imagining. I'm not sure which to bet on (pun intended, gambling is a big no-no 'round here)...
 
I just wanted to thank those of you who answered my question, especially Disney_1derland.
 
No way no how...my kids know better to even ask about this one...even DS,13, whose job it is in life is to give me gray hairs, lol!
 
You are not over reacting.

I am pretty liberal on all of my views and the game wa quite a shock.
 
That is CRAZY! My DD is 14 and my DS is 18, my DS bought this game and I really didn't pay too much attention to it. Then I walked past one day while he and DD were playing it....oh my!!!! I couldn't believe it, there are even hookers on the street! What kind of a game is that? My kids couldn't believe I was so upset with it, now, telling my DS (18) that he can't play it is a bit crazy, but I didn't even want my DD playing at the age of 14 (probably still a little crazy).

My question is: What ever happened to pacman? :)

I think it is far too advanced and mature for grade 2's to be playing. You can't hide your kids from everything, but exposing them unnecessarily is crazy too!
 
FreshTressa said:
I guess what I'm mostly trying to say is I'm tired of people blaming TV, movies, video games, etc. for kids behavior problems.

The "parents" in those cases don't fit the defintion IMO. No piece of media is going to change your kid unless there is no parent around to bring them back to reality.

As for the GTA series, it's rated M for a reason and IMO it's best to wait until the child is ready. About the time they are ready to watch R rated movies.

As for games in general, no way anybody will convince me that GTA is any worse than the many war games out there. At least GTA is a fantasy rather than recreating real battles and killing real enemies from our past.
 
cardaway said:
The "parents" in those cases don't fit the defintion IMO. No piece of media is going to change your kid unless there is no parent around to bring them back to reality.

As for the GTA series, it's rated M for a reason and IMO it's best to wait until the child is ready. About the time they are ready to watch R rated movies.

As for games in general, no way anybody will convince me that GTA is any worse than the many war games out there. At least GTA is a fantasy rather than recreating real battles and killing real enemies from our past.

I think there is a huge difference playing a WW2 game, which they've learned about in school, with my sons, than there is playing a game where I'm picking up prostitues to have sex in an alley.
 
mickman1962 said:
I think there is a huge difference playing a WW2 game, which they've learned about in school, with my sons, than there is playing a game where I'm picking up prostitues to have sex in an alley.

Yes, there is. One has your son using weapons to kill people. FTR so does GTA, but like the WWII game, it's just fantasy.
 
Does anyone know if this is true? I read an article that there were codes or something you could use to unlock hidden graphic sex scenes. This news broke back in summer of last year and the game was supposed to be given an Adults-only rating.

Since I don't follow all this stuff was this ever determined to be true? :confused3 Just wondering. BTW, here's a link to one of the articles about it:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/07/08/state/n164946D01.DTL
 
Does anyone know if this is true? I read an article that there were codes or something you could use to unlock hidden graphic sex scenes. This news broke back in summer of last year and the game was supposed to be given an Adults-only rating.

I don't know anything about GTA cheat codes, but that's just because I'm not interested in the game series so I'm not looking for them. It wouldn't REALLY surprise me. I heard a rumor there was a way to 'nudify' the game. There are public-knowledge 'easter eggs' & cheat codes, and then there are unpublicized ones that the programmers do to make the job a little more fun. The amount of work for naked 'skins' for all the characters would be a monumental task, so unless it was a concerted effort I doubt it's in the game. A hidden sex scene (now and then) wouldn't be a whole lot of work - it'd take a guy a weekend to do.

As for games in general, no way anybody will convince me that GTA is any worse than the many war games out there. At least GTA is a fantasy rather than recreating real battles and killing real enemies from our past.

The war game comment is why I don't let my 11y.o. play my "Medal of Honor" games yet. It is MY opinion, MY kid, MY decision. In my defense, MoH is also based on battles that happened more than 50 years ago - with outdated weaponry, relatively outdated squad tactics, and you gotta admit most of the missions (at least in Medal of Honor) are SO stylized it's hard (for me) to feel totally immersed in the action. For a kid interested in history, it's an excellent touchpoint. For a kid not into history, it's yet another 'hack-n-slash' game for him/her.

GTA is a fantasy, but (in my opinion) some kids can't tell it's fantasy - maybe because of their parental units, or else their real-life environment makes the 'fantasy' hit too close to home. That's my opinion.
 
spoon full of sugar said:
I would never allow my son to play a game where he would steal, do drugs, have relations with a hooker, than beat her up to get his money back, murder people walking down the street, murder police officers. I don't care if he is 50, he will never bring that type of filth into my house. I don't understand how anyone could give this abomination to there children, at what age is glorifying rape and murder appropriate? I think all of you who have allowed your children to have this game need to sit back and really THINK about what your saying to your children by condoning this. And to all of you who say this is just a game, my children know the differance, I think you need to ask yourself what is it in your child that gets so excited ( and we all know kids get wound up over video games) about abusing women and murdering police officers. In my experiance, many times parents let their kids have these games because they want them to be cool. That is so sad, that you would give your approval of degredating women and murder, just so your kid isn't the only one who isn't spending their weekends and school nights beating hookers and blowing peoples brains out. Way to go *******.

I have not seen the game, but based on what people here have said about what goes on in it, I have the same question. Why would anyone even let their 15 year old play it? From what I have seen throughout my life is that while people (and IMO especially males) are watching a tv show or movie, in a way they "become" the protagonist (whether that character is good or bad). With the interactiveness of video games I would think this effect is even greater. Who wants their child, no matter how old, pretending in their mind that they are stealing cars, being with a hooker, shooting police, etc :confused3?
 
My DH hasn't gotten a game system (Playstation, Gamecube, etc.) because we can't find very many games that DS4 could play/watch. Both DS and DH love to play computer games, but we limit DS to Mario Brothers, Hot Wheels Racing, Pac Man and the like. We don't allow DS to watch much violent t.v. or play violent games. So, no Grand Theft Auto in this house until the kids are MUCH older.

DS has a Leapster and wanted one of the handheld Playstation systems, but we told him that the games are for older kids and he can have one when he gets older.

I do know a few kids DS's age who are allowed to play inappropriate games (realistic/graphic war games) and I don't understand why the parents think that having a young child simulating shooting people's heads off is "good entertainment".
 
GoofyDad869 said:
GTA is a fantasy, but (in my opinion) some kids can't tell it's fantasy - maybe because of their parental units, or else their real-life environment makes the 'fantasy' hit too close to home. That's my opinion.


Exactly...kids that have good family units and a good solid psyche can tell fantasy from reality.

(still would not buy GTA for 8 year old!)
 

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