I am so angry at DD

[PatsGirl]

I just wanted to leave for you. I know firsthand how it feels to be disappointed in a child, my son gave me a run for my $$, lol. I was also very heavy-handed in discipline but not sure that it worked best all the time. Good luck with whatever you decide - it is always difficult to leverage our love with them while doling out consequences that will leave a lasting impression.

 

[teskak]

I remember there was a thread earlier this year about some boy who had stolen a significant amount from his parents, then lied about it and concealed the stealing.

They did the whole clean out of the room, and then I think he had to repay the debt by spending the whole winter cleaning horse puckey from a local stable.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Sorry, I just have to say this one more time then I will go away and not return.

Blaming the victim is completely inappropriate. Yes, we all have to learn safe behaviors, leaving a purse in open view in a parked car is not necessarily safe, however if your car is then broken into and the purse stolen IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. The person who committed the act is completely and solely responsible for CHOOSING TO DO THE act.

We cannot hold a victim responsible for someone else's behavior. That is far too uncomfortably close to the "well, she was wearing this reallllly short skirt" mentality.

Completely and totally unacceptable.

I'll shut up now.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

I am not a parent, but I agree that there has to be serious consequences and a sense of shame.

Consequences so that the 9 year old learns that actions have consequences and shame because, quite frankly, shame is a good thing in an episode like this.

I remember the worst thing in the world was disappointing my parents.

I'm not a parent either, but I was a kid once, and I'm agreeing with the bolded part. Lessons like this go a long way later in life.

 

[MushyMushy]

I took a calculator from a classmate in third grade. I remember being jealous of it & spur of the moment, I pocketed it. I hid it in my desk . The teacher called my parents for a meeting & I had to apologize to the girl. I think the worst part was everyone finding out . I never took anything again!

My sister stole something from one of the neighbor kids and as soon as my mother found out, she marched her over there to make her apologize. I can still remember my sister just stood there stubbornly and wouldn't do it and wouldn't do it. I was thinking, "Just say it stupid! You don't have to mean it!!!" She finally blurted out something like, "SORRY! I took your stupid XXXX!!!" and then turned around and ran back to the house. That apology was so darn hard for her. She never did it again.

Regarding blaming the victim, I've got a story about that. DH's much younger brother went through a stealing phase. DH had just cashed a several hundred dollar paycheck and his brother stole all but a few dollars out of DH's wallet in his room. What was worse, DH was paying rent to live there (don't know why that makes it worse to me, but it just does). When DH went to his mother about it, she told him it was too bad, that he shouldn't have left the money out in his room and he'd learn better next time!

Not too long later, the brother stole money from MIL and it was the end of the world. Then later when he got a job at a convenience store, he ended up going to jail for stealing money. Well I can't make the correlation between her not punishing him for stealing from DH and him going on to bigger thefts, but I just thought it was interesting in light of this discussion.

 

[onelilspark]

Sorry, I just have to say this one more time then I will go away and not return.

Blaming the victim is completely inappropriate. Yes, we all have to learn safe behaviors, leaving a purse in open view in a parked car is not necessarily safe, however if your car is then broken into and the purse stolen IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. The person who committed the act is completely and solely responsible for CHOOSING TO DO THE act.

We cannot hold a victim responsible for someone else's behavior. That is far too uncomfortably close to the "well, she was wearing this reallllly short skirt" mentality.

Completely and totally unacceptable.

I'll shut up now.

I agree. I think it's important that the lesson of keeping money hidden & safe is stressed with the 13 year old, but making this at all her fault is the wrong move. I've had my wallet stolen twice when I was a teen. Both times my parent's initial reaction was anger and it really bothered me. It's not like I invited someone to take my wallet! I was 16 and 17 when it happened. Once was by my best friend (at the time obviously) when I was taking her home from school and I was pumping gas and asked her to put my bank card back in my wallet...thought I could trust her! Second time it was stolen out of my purse in the back room of the store. It's stressful enough to have things stolen from you, especially by people you think you can trust (i.e. best friend, sister) having someone come down on you for it then just magnifies everything. My parents later apologized because they knew it wasn't the best reaction (no one's perfect) but to this day, I know it wasn't one of their finer moments.

I'm really paranoid now about keeping my purse with me at all times. If I don't bring it inside with me, I'll lock it in the trunk...even in Suburbia at night. My bf thinks I'm crazy. I don't.

 

[Inigo]

I think that's waaaay over the top. The police probably wouldn't appreciate being called into a family situation to do what the OP and her dh are more than capable of doing: parenting their child.

I think Serena and agnes! have given great advice.

I'm a juvenile probation officer, and I get calls from parents wanting me to put a little scare into their child. I call it my "fear of god" talk. I really don't mind doing these, and neither do most of the police officers I work with, as long as it's not a frequent thing from a family. If it's a one time thing, there's no problem.

We have some families that expect us to talk to their kids every single time the kid misbehaves. The kid won't go to school, call the police. The kid won't go to bed, call the police. In those cases, I tell the parents they need to be parents if they expect their child to behave. In some cases, we refer the families to classes, such as mentors, parenting coaches, etc.

 

[lovetoscrap]

If you read what I wrote I never said that DD9 wouldn't be punished if this happens again. I did say that I would put some fault on DD13 and would require her to hand her money over to me to be held safely. She won't be "punished", she won't not get her money back.

And I think it is a very long leap from leaving a hundred dollars cash on the seat of the car with the doors unlocked to the "short skirt-she asked for it" theory. I did have about $60 stolen a few years ago. DD (much younger) was playing in my purse at a restaurant and I didn't realize my wallet fell out under the table. When I went back the next day to see if it was there I got my entire wallet back minus all the cash that had been in it. Yes, I was bummed it was stolen, but I really did blame ME! I should have checked my purse. I should have looked around the table before we left. Heck, I shouldn't have been letting DD play with it.

I make sure the kids keep their Ipods, Game Boys, purses etc under the seat and out of sight in the car. I hide my GPS and purse if I am not taking it with me. I do share the blame if I leave things in sight and someone takes them. If the kids taket thier Game Boy, Ipod, or moeny to school and it is stolen then they will share the blame. They won't be grounded, given extra chores or any "punishment"--they just won't be getting a new one from us to replace it.

Personal responsibility. If you know that someone in your house has sticky fingers then you do what is necessary to prevent a problem. Yes DD has a right to privacy and to not have her sister in her room. But I am not adding 24 hour surveillance to her room. DD9 WILL be in trouble for violating her privacy but life is about reality, not about the ideal.


And really what I am most upset about in this entire situation is that DD9 LIED to me. We have always stressed that lying is the greatest sin and will get them in heaps more trouble than the actual offense.

 

[momx2]

DD13 has been lectured on making sure she puts her money away (she is careless with it often) and keeping it hidden and where her sister can't find it/reach it. I did tell her that if her money disappears again then I will consider it her fault. She has plenty of options to safeguard it--including giving it to me to hold. Since she knows now that her sister may take it I don't want to find it lying around on her bed like she often does!

Sorry, but I disagree with the above. Your 13 yr. old is at home where valuables should be safe from her family. It will not be her fault if her sister steals from her again.

 

[Chicago526]

Here's an idea, have part of younger DD's punishment be that she has to buy older DD a lock box for her money and valuables. Since she can't be trusted, anything that needs to be purchased to protect the family from her actions should come out of her own pocket!

 

[Wishing on a star]

Good lord!!!!
Some people here are going over the edge...

I don't know that anybody has suggested punishment for the older kid when the younger one stole the money. THIS time.

But, anybody who does not think that the older child needs to learn, and demonstrate, some personal responsibility regarding handling cash is seriously kidding themselves.

The matter is not simply that the younger sister has sticky fingers.
The OP states that the older daughter has not handled her money appropriately and has shown repeated irresponsibility.

I can guarantee you I would not allow my 11 year old to be that irresponsible and leave cash floating around everywhere, flashing it, etc...
No way would I find that acceptable in a 13 year old.

I might choose to make sure that she simply does not handle her own money....

And, at some point, very soon, yes, she will have to learn that SHE will suffer the consequences for irresponsibility.
One day soon, something tells me that she will get ripped off (or simply lose) even more money or valuables.... And, natural consequences would have to kick in.
She may have to learn the hard way.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

LTS, I agree with you completely. DD9 was the one that stole and lied, but DD13 has now learned a valuable lesson and if she continues to be careless, she will need to shoulder some of the responsibility for that carelessness.

I also know what you mean about the lying. That's the part that hurts. My DD13 does it sometimes so easily, that it's scary. Sometimes kids don't seem to care if their parents are disappointed or not. However, that's no reason to give up on them. I try to remember when I was a kid, and if I thought the easiest way out of something was to lie, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Once the lie didn't work, then I'd have to tell the truth, but I'd sure try lying first. (I guess, in my case, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree). I sometimes think lying is just a reflex reaction -- who really wants to tell the truth immediately after they've done something wrong and been caught?

I'm sure whatever you deem to be appropriate punishment will be. I'm just glad for places like the DIS where I can come and bounce ideas off of other people. Kind of a reality check sometimes. Good luck!

 

[rie'smom]

If you read what I wrote I never said that DD9 wouldn't be punished if this happens again. I did say that I would put some fault on DD13 and would require her to hand her money over to me to be held safely. She won't be "punished", she won't not get her money back.

Personal responsibility. If you know that someone in your house has sticky fingers then you do what is necessary to prevent a problem. Yes DD has a right to privacy and to not have her sister in her room. But I am not adding 24 hour surveillance to her room. DD9 WILL be in trouble for violating her privacy but life is about reality, not about the ideal.


And really what I am most upset about in this entire situation is that DD9 LIED to me. We have always stressed that lying is the greatest sin and will get them in heaps more trouble than the actual offense.

If someone in the house has sticky fingers, then that person should be held responsible not anyone else.

I would be as upset about the stealing as the lying. Both are wrong. Your younger daughter violated your older daughter. The older girl should not even be spoken to about the matter except in an apology from her sister.

Talking about personal responsibility -by telling your older daughter that she will bear some blame if her sister takes more money in the future is taking the responsibility of stealing away from the perpetrator. It's like saying if a girl wore a short skirt, she deserved to be raped and I realize the two are not on the same level, it's just an analogy.

By acting this way with your older child, the younger child's behavior is being given a bit of a pass.

Sorry, but I disagree with the above. Your 13 yr. old is at home where valuables should be safe from her family. It will not be her fault if her sister steals from her again.

 

[lovetoscrap]

But, anybody who does not think that the older child needs to learn, and demonstrate, some personal responsibility regarding handling cash is seriously kidding themselves.

The matter is not simply that the younger sister has sticky fingers.
The OP states that the older daughter has not handled her money appropriately and has shown repeated irresponsibility.

I
I might choose to make sure that she simply does not handle her own money....

And, at some point, very soon, yes, she will have to learn that SHE will suffer the consequences for irresponsibility.
One day soon, something tells me that she will get ripped off (or simply lose) even more money or valuables.... And, natural consequences would have to kick in.
She may have to learn the hard way.

LTS, I agree with you completely. DD9 was the one that stole and lied, but DD13 has now learned a valuable lesson and if she continues to be careless, she will need to shoulder some of the responsibility for that carelessness.



I'm sure whatever you deem to be appropriate punishment will be. I'm just glad for places like the DIS where I can come and bounce ideas off of other people. Kind of a reality check sometimes. Good luck!

Thank you for understanding what I am trying to say. I think I will just have to agree to disagree with others.

And just for the record, I don't allow my girls to wear short skirts either.

 

[koima]

My brother was a thief when I was growing up, and even with a locked box in a bedroom with a lock on the door, he would pick the lock and steal from me. It was terrible and no matter what I did to secure my belongings they weren't safe. It took a long time when I moved out not to feel like I had to keep everything under lock and key; I still don't carry cash.

My parents didn't punish him - they yelled, but there was no real consequence. He stole from them, too. My mom had surgery and he stole her pain medication. He stole money. The final straw for me was that my grandma was visiting from the opposite coast and he was stealing from her. She said, "California sure is expensive! I don't know where it's all going, but I just took $200 out of the ATM and I'm broke again!" No surprise, he's been in and out of jail for theft. It would have been a lot easier on my family if my parents had cracked down on him when he was 5 and stole a candy bar. Now as an adult, I won't bring my purse into my parents' house if he is there (it's safer locked in the trunk.) We go to their home for Christmas and stay at a hotel if he's there; I don't want to risk him going through my suitcase. It sucks.

 

[happywanderer2]

I confess, I took money from my parents dresser top when I was about nine-I think. Looking back, I think I took it because I was the youngest and was never taken seriously about earning money. My parent would give me almost anything I wanted, but I wanted my own money. When my parent found out my dad took me aside (and know this-I was daddy's little girl) and just calmly told me how disappointed he was in me and that it would take a lot to earn back his trust. Boy, talk about feeling like I was lower than dirt--without any screaming or punishment. I never, ever, ever stoled anything ever again.

 

[tonilea]

I could have written the OPs post, except I was the victim and my brother was the thief. I don't really remember what his punishment was (I knew immediately he had stolen it and wanted to beat it out of him, but they put a stop to that!) but, I do remember feeling like it was inadequate. Eventually, he graduated to stealing a motorcycle. I don't know if he is still a thief - we don't have much contact - but, on the few occasions I do see him, my purse is locked in the car.

 

[richmo]

DD9 was definitely in the wrong here, no doubt about it.

When I see phrases like DD13 has been saving up for a year, etc., I have to question why the $$$ was laying around waiting to be taken. Leaving out that kind of cash is like leaving their favorite candy out. Its going to disappear. Yes, I know thats not a good comparison, but you get the idea.

I would think one of your first acts this summer should be to take both kids to the bank and open up savings accounts for both of them. There's really no reason for that kind of cash to be loose in a kids room. $100 may not seem like a lot to us adults these days, but to a kid, thats a ton. Get rid of the temptation and move it somewhere (that's supposed to be) safe.

Dealing with bank accounts and saving is something they should be learning anyway.

 

[Metsfan520]

I think that's waaaay over the top. The police probably wouldn't appreciate being called into a family situation to do what the OP and her dh are more than capable of doing: parenting their child.

I think Serena and agnes! have given great advice.

I also think "calling the cops" is a bit too much. But Serena & agnes!'s advice is spot on.

 

[Cinderella94]

Here's an idea, have part of younger DD's punishment be that she has to buy older DD a lock box for her money and valuables. Since she can't be trusted, anything that needs to be purchased to protect the family from her actions should come out of her own pocket!

I like this idea.