I Am Just So TICKED OFF--School Related

[Wishing on a star]

Great!!!

 

[Christine]

Christine,

While the teachers are out, there is still usually someone around at the schools much of the time. At least here that is the case. The schools and the Superintindents offices are not locked and boarded up.

I might suggest that you get yourself physically up to the school or the offices and don't budge until it is taken care of.

Good Luck with getting your DD in the new school!

Actually, they told me that today (Friday) was the last day that "guidance" would be open (and the transcript lady for that matter) and if things didn't go out TODAY that nothing more would be done until the beginning of August. Fortunately, I seemed to have averted disaster.

 

[auntpolly]

Glad to hear it all turned out!

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

Christine, I am so happy that things are starting to go your way in this matter. I sat on our local School board and let me tell you, it is a thankless job that is a real eye opener. After one term I had had it. Because of the teacher's unions and crazy Dept. of Ed regulations, its nuts to try and get anything done for the welfare of the student's learning IMHO. Flame suit is now on. Stick to your guns, Christine, and go get 'em!

 

[soccerchick]

See, this is why I, the liberal, the defender of the public school, am beginning to like vouchers -- and letting schools compete with each other.

Would we accept this excuse from any other business? From our bank? ("Sorry, I know you need that stuff for your loan application, but it's our busy time of year") from your employer? ("Sorry, I know you expected your paycheck...")

Why can't they just do their jobs -- they do work for us, after all. Our private school was so much more efficient.

In my case, I started asking for stuff at spring break, when we could start the application process, and when it wasn't all done a few days before it was all due, I was just so ticked.

I'm sure they are doing their jobs. Have you ever not completed something and had to wait until the next day to do it? I doubt that these employees are out taking 2 hour lunch breaks while transcripts pile up.

Oh, and this DOES happen in ALL areas of "business." I walk into a store 15 minutes before closing and while I'd love to get great service, do I really think this is realistic? If I change my mind on a loan just a few days before closing, I'm risking that the paperwork won't get done and underwritten in time. As in MOST places of business these days, too few people are expected to get the work of MANY done in a certain number of hours. That "transcript" person is probably an hourly wage person. Chances are good she/he's not getting paid to stay late until everything gets done. That office then needs to figure out a way take care of the spillover. I'm sure a guidance director is there all summer. Those are usually 11-12 month contracts.

 

[Pam]

I guess I will quit grousing about my son's High School...... the principal is on staff all summer long -- and I think the guidance counselors are there for most of the summer as well.

And I've always gotten through to all of the administrators and the teachers usually return my phone calls by day's end.



But, enough about me, back to the OP. Do you have the phone numbers of some of your DD's teachers? Could you call them and ask them to write the letters?

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I'm glad this got straightened out for you! I am glad that the guidance counselor found the email and I hope all information will go to the new school so you can get a fresh start. It seems you have one letter of rec and the transcripts. If you need a second letter of rec. I would suggest that you speak to the guidance counselor and see if she may have the phone number of a teacher who may be able to be contacted over the summer.

I hope your DD will be successful in her new school and in life, but I have to say that I wish people were as quick to dole out praise for the teachers, counselors, and support staff who go out of their way to help as they are to dole out the negative comments when something doesn't go their way.

Many people mentioned comments like "They should just do their jobs." and that in most other companies this would not be acceptable. As a teacher (I'm sure you guessed that by now, though) I feel morally obligated to remind you that teachers are extremely overworked and underpaid. ( I work 3-4 jobs, including tutoring before school opens each morning, as well as a summer job offering a review course to students who have failed state testing, which is at no cost to the students who failed these tests, plus I took a class this year.) I do my job very well- I was chosen to be in the Who's Who of American teachers and nominated for Teacher of the Month in May. However, there are limits to what a teacher can do.

It is true that this was the busiest time of year. During the last two weeks of regular school, I was at school until 4 on days I went to my second job, and until 6 or 7 on days I didn't. I would then take a break for dinner and work until 1 or 2 in the morning at home, only to get up at 5:30 and get to work by 7. Physically, I would get sick if I tried to do any more. Letters of recommendation are not in my job description. I do not get any time during the school day to prepare them, nor am I required to do them. No boss is required to write a letter of recommendation for an employee, either. However, it is the kind thing to do.

I write about 20-40 letters of recommendation (most for students attending colleges, nursing school, cosmetology school, etc.) a year, but I require two things. I require they fill out a checklist of information so I can include relevant information and that they give me at least 4 weeks notice. In fact, our guidance counselors tell all students this and suggest to the students to speak to their teachers in May or June to give them time over the summer to write letters due in October.

College recommendations are more involved than a simple high school transfer, and more than likely I would have tried to squeeze it into my day. Now, if it happened when my Departmental Director needed me to fill our retention folders, or Item Analysis sheets, or failure lists, or anything else, sadly, the letter would have fallen by the wayside until I finished those things that are required for my job.

As far as this not being acceptable in another line of work, I can tell you that it cost me $100.00 to get my passport expedited and receive it in time for a trip. In many instances like passports, it takes 4-8 weeks to receive something and if you need it faster, it will either cost more, or you will be out of luck.

I am very happy that this all worked out for you. I imagine you were very stressed out when you imagined that your child might not be able to get into school for the year and you were hoping for the school to be more helpful. I wish they would have been. However, I just wanted to explain why, despite the best of intentions, they may not have been able to be as helpful as you would have liked. Perhaps you can use this as a teachable moment for your daughter- on the importance of getting things done on time, how to ask for favors from others, giving ample notice, etc.

I am not claiming that the Board of Education is perfect. I have many complaints of my own. "Crazy Dept. of Ed." regulations are just the beginning. NCLB, contradictory requirements, lackof funding, etc. The teachers who come to work every day and try their best are not the problem, though. The problem is that expectations are unrealistic. As a high school teacher I see at least 150 students a day. If they each write a three page paper, imagine the work I have to do on my "free time". Things will not improve until there are smaller class sizes, more parental involvement and increasing modifications for students, not only special needs (IEP, 504, ESL, etc.) but for all students.

I would love to have a system (disclaimer: this is idealistic and will never happen) in which a teacher is trained in K- 12 education and teaches the same 15-25 students from Kindergarten through Senior year. Students would develop a closer, almost familial relationship with their teachers which I believe would help them learn more, behave better, etc. Any more than 25 students in a class makes personal attention very difficult. Even if we did this only until 8th grade, and then allowed students to choose different tracks, this might be helpful. I for one think that the vocational ed. programs are the future for some students. If a school focuses solely on college prep, they are leaving out the students who need education the most- the ones who will never go after it if left to their own devices. If we can get enthusiasm and professionalism to blossom in these students instead of discouraging them in a college preparatory curriculum, perhaps they will be more successful.

I'm sorry this got to be so long, but it really hurts me when others are so quick to bash my profession, which I consider to be the most noble of all professions. Most teachers are well educated, kind and spend way more time and money than they are required under contract to help improve their students' lives. I don't expect every student to write me a thank you note or letter (though I appreciate the ones I do get). I don't expect every parent to hug me and compliment me (though I again appreciate those that do). I just don't think that it is right to paint "teachers" with so broad a brush. We've all experienced a teacher or who who should not have been one, but that doesn't mean that there aren't thousands who are going above and beyond every day. I don't think it is right to expect teacher to solve every problem and every situation in order to be doing their job successfully.

I wish your DD the best of luck and I hope this stressful experience leads to better times ahead for all.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

I would like to defend the phone thing. In the HS where I work, the phones do not ring through during the teaching day, unless it is the office or another staff member. The reason for this is obvious--I can't talk to a mom about Johnny's grades in front of another group of students, I don't have the information at my fingertips when I am teaching a lesson, we have one period to cover whatever we are doing that day, etc. Some parents do tend to ramble on, and that is fine, unless there is a roomful of students waiting! If someone calls my phone will have a "you have voicemail" message where the time and date usually are. No tone or beep or anything to indicate there is a message, I just have to notice it--and I don't look at the phone every minute. Usually I will call the parent during my planning or early the next morning. If my planning is already over it will have to wait until the next day. Is this a pain? Yes, even for me. Once DD#1 waited in the health room for an hour because I didn't notice I had a voicemail and when I did, I had to call school and then Grandpa to go get her. At that time I asked for all calls from my kids' schools to be put directly through, but 1) the secretary said that could not be done and 2) sometimes they just say "May I speak to Robin ___ please" without identifying themselves as a school. Now the first emergency # is my cell phone #. As for EMail, I have a separate school account, which I check 3-4 times a day--school days! I try to check it weekly during the summer but sometimes I forget!
My own mother was a guidance secretary at a middle school for 22 years. It was a 10 month position from Aug. 15-June 15. It saved the district in salary since the other two secretaries there were 12 month. Most 12 month staff take vacations at times during the year for 2 or 3 weeks total, and I know almost all of the staff at my HS will be out next week. The principal is not in during July. Where I live, the elementary and jr. high offices are closed until Aug. 15.
Christine, I applaud you for getting your results. If I, as a teacher, had done this to a student I would be really mad at myself and ashamed to face you. For me that is the most shocking aspect; that the teachers didn't do this in a timely matter. The rest of it seems like normally operating procedure at almost every publich school I am know of--my alma mater, where I live, and where I work. In fact we have a guidance counselor who is such a ditzbrain that if my own kids went to my school, I'd make sure they were placed with someone else.
Robin M.

 

[pigletz]

I'm very glad that you got this situation resolved. I was surprised that the principal wouldn't be there all summer. Our principals and counselors work a longer year than the teacher's do and have to be available to parents who have questions about the last report card.
I was actually thinking about recommendations today but for the opposite reason. A student came to me during summer school last week to ask for a recommendation for a high school she was applying to. When I asked for specifics (length, name of school, type of school). She couldn't give me any answers and told me to call her aunt. I called the aunt and left a message with my cell phone number. The student told me she would pick it up the next day. I wrote the letter before I left school even though I didn't really have the information that I needed and left a copy in the office. Well it's been over a week and she hasn't come to pick up the letter and I still can't get a hold of the aunt.
I also wanted to add for the pp who mentioned the message systems that teachers use, teachers do not control the phone system. I can't tell you how many times parents have complained to me about messages that I didn't get. The district installs the phones and the decides what they can and can't do. Our phones don't dial out and we can't get outside calls. We can call the office and other classrooms. The office can put a call through but I am reluctent to answer the phone when they do. It's not that I don't want to talk to the parents. I make tons of calls and not just during the school day. Most of the calls that I get are either not for me or are messages that could easily have been left in the office. When a parent does call with a legitimate question, it can be hard to answer in the middle of a lesson when other students are listening especially if that child is in the class at that time. I'm sure the parents don't want their childs poor performance or behavior broadcast to thirty other eighth graders. I have never been able to retrieve my messages. I've complained and complained but they've never checked to see what the problem is. That's not to say that there aren't teachers who never respond to parents. Most of us want to talk to you as much as you want to talk to us. People also need to remember that we are human too. If I don't get back to a parent within a day there is always some reason. I work a second job to pay for my students to take a trip to Washington DC each year since the district can't pay for it and neither can the parents. There are days that I work from 7am to 1am with just my planning and a short break for lunch and dinner. At times it is impossible for me to call for a few days. When that is the case I always send a note home, but we know how often those notes actually make it.

 

[paigevz]

And the teachers. I'm just shocked that I got no response or help from them.

So am I. I don't know the timing exactly of your emails. If it was the last week of school perhaps they didn't check it? I didn't check my email on the last day at all, as I had so much to do. I have checked since, though.

Also, just because it was their last workday doesn't mean they won't come up. I go every week in summer except for a couple when I'm out of town. Maybe the personnel office would give you their home phone? Our personnel office is open all summer except for two weeks in July. We have to sign a paper asking not to have our home phone given out, so maybe they haven't restricted that. It's worth a try, maybe.

 

[paigevz]

Well, this is crazy!! I honest-to-God believe someone at that school is reading the DIS!!

About 30 minutes after I wrote this post, I got an e-mail from her theater teacher saying "OMG, Christine, I'm sorry I didn't answer this sooner. I haven't been good about checking my e-mails and was surprised to find I had 200!!" Now I did ask her this *before* school got out.

Anyway, she was shocked that my DD wanted to go to private school, had no problems preparing the letter, etc. In the meantime, the guidance secretary e-mailed me to confirm that she sent the transcripts out today!!

So, all's well that ends well I suppose.

Oh, good. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread before posting!

 

[Christine]

I'm glad this got straightened out for you! I am glad that the guidance counselor found the email and I hope all information will go to the new school so you can get a fresh start. It seems you have one letter of rec and the transcripts. If you need a second letter of rec. I would suggest that you speak to the guidance counselor and see if she may have the phone number of a teacher who may be able to be contacted over the summer.

I hope your DD will be successful in her new school and in life, but I have to say that I wish people were as quick to dole out praise for the teachers, counselors, and support staff who go out of their way to help as they are to dole out the negative comments when something doesn't go their way.

Many people mentioned comments like "They should just do their jobs." and that in most other companies this would not be acceptable. As a teacher (I'm sure you guessed that by now, though) I feel morally obligated to remind you that teachers are extremely overworked and underpaid. ( I work 3-4 jobs, including tutoring before school opens each morning, as well as a summer job offering a review course to students who have failed state testing, which is at no cost to the students who failed these tests, plus I took a class this year.) I do my job very well- I was chosen to be in the Who's Who of American teachers and nominated for Teacher of the Month in May. However, there are limits to what a teacher can do.

It is true that this was the busiest time of year. During the last two weeks of regular school, I was at school until 4 on days I went to my second job, and until 6 or 7 on days I didn't. I would then take a break for dinner and work until 1 or 2 in the morning at home, only to get up at 5:30 and get to work by 7. Physically, I would get sick if I tried to do any more. Letters of recommendation are not in my job description. I do not get any time during the school day to prepare them, nor am I required to do them. No boss is required to write a letter of recommendation for an employee, either. However, it is the kind thing to do.

I write about 20-40 letters of recommendation (most for students attending colleges, nursing school, cosmetology school, etc.) a year, but I require two things. I require they fill out a checklist of information so I can include relevant information and that they give me at least 4 weeks notice. In fact, our guidance counselors tell all students this and suggest to the students to speak to their teachers in May or June to give them time over the summer to write letters due in October.

College recommendations are more involved than a simple high school transfer, and more than likely I would have tried to squeeze it into my day. Now, if it happened when my Departmental Director needed me to fill our retention folders, or Item Analysis sheets, or failure lists, or anything else, sadly, the letter would have fallen by the wayside until I finished those things that are required for my job.

As far as this not being acceptable in another line of work, I can tell you that it cost me $100.00 to get my passport expedited and receive it in time for a trip. In many instances like passports, it takes 4-8 weeks to receive something and if you need it faster, it will either cost more, or you will be out of luck.

I am very happy that this all worked out for you. I imagine you were very stressed out when you imagined that your child might not be able to get into school for the year and you were hoping for the school to be more helpful. I wish they would have been. However, I just wanted to explain why, despite the best of intentions, they may not have been able to be as helpful as you would have liked. Perhaps you can use this as a teachable moment for your daughter- on the importance of getting things done on time, how to ask for favors from others, giving ample notice, etc.

I am not claiming that the Board of Education is perfect. I have many complaints of my own. "Crazy Dept. of Ed." regulations are just the beginning. NCLB, contradictory requirements, lackof funding, etc. The teachers who come to work every day and try their best are not the problem, though. The problem is that expectations are unrealistic. As a high school teacher I see at least 150 students a day. If they each write a three page paper, imagine the work I have to do on my "free time". Things will not improve until there are smaller class sizes, more parental involvement and increasing modifications for students, not only special needs (IEP, 504, ESL, etc.) but for all students.

I would love to have a system (disclaimer: this is idealistic and will never happen) in which a teacher is trained in K- 12 education and teaches the same 15-25 students from Kindergarten through Senior year. Students would develop a closer, almost familial relationship with their teachers which I believe would help them learn more, behave better, etc. Any more than 25 students in a class makes personal attention very difficult. Even if we did this only until 8th grade, and then allowed students to choose different tracks, this might be helpful. I for one think that the vocational ed. programs are the future for some students. If a school focuses solely on college prep, they are leaving out the students who need education the most- the ones who will never go after it if left to their own devices. If we can get enthusiasm and professionalism to blossom in these students instead of discouraging them in a college preparatory curriculum, perhaps they will be more successful.

I'm sorry this got to be so long, but it really hurts me when others are so quick to bash my profession, which I consider to be the most noble of all professions. Most teachers are well educated, kind and spend way more time and money than they are required under contract to help improve their students' lives. I don't expect every student to write me a thank you note or letter (though I appreciate the ones I do get). I don't expect every parent to hug me and compliment me (though I again appreciate those that do). I just don't think that it is right to paint "teachers" with so broad a brush. We've all experienced a teacher or who who should not have been one, but that doesn't mean that there aren't thousands who are going above and beyond every day. I don't think it is right to expect teacher to solve every problem and every situation in order to be doing their job successfully.

I wish your DD the best of luck and I hope this stressful experience leads to better times ahead for all.

First off--let me state that my post was in no way intended to "bash" teachers. I was, and still am, frustrated with the lack of response I got.

I want to clarify that the guidance counselor was the one at total fault here and still did nothing but HURT the whole situation. I have known from previous friends of mine that the transcript people at this school are fabulous and getting out transcripts in a timely manner. I have been told that they usually have something like a 2-day turnaround on this. They have a dedicated person who does transcripts. But, my request had to go through her guidance counselor first. I'm sorry but it *is* the guidance counselor's job to take care of stuff like this. I sent this woman an e-mail the day before I sent the forms in explaining in detail what I needed and told her to expect my daughter. She basically blew it off. Probably tossed it in the trash can.

The person who came through for me was the administrative person who handles the transcripts.

As for the recommendation letter--when I sent my e-mail to the teachers I was very humble about it and told them that I did not expect them to do this, that I knew it was "above and beyond" and that I would certainly understand if the could not or preferred not to prepare this letter. I just asked that one of them let me know so that I could move on to another teacher who might actually be able to do one. I got no response at all until this morning. And then the teacher was very apologetic and told me that she pretty much just doesn't check her school e-mail address often enough and had 200 e-mails in her inbox.

Again, I understand that people are busy but the guidance counselor issue was definitely unexcusable. The teacher thing is definitely understandable and just a miscommunication.

 

[Christine]

I also wanted to add for the pp who mentioned the message systems that teachers use, teachers do not control the phone system. I can't tell you how many times parents have complained to me about messages that I didn't get.

As to the phones--what about guidance counselors. I understand that I can't get through to a teacher. But you shouldn't have this problem with a guidance counselor????

 

[Nancy]

My daughter wentr for about 1/2 month for her senior year at the high school, she left there, but she still is listed in the yearbook as a "senior who did not turn in a picture" (pictures had to be turned in by Thanksgiving, she was gone long before then). I still get mailings from the district with her name on it.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

First off--let me state that my post was in no way intended to "bash" teachers. I was, and still am, frustrated with the lack of response I got.

I want to clarify that the guidance counselor was the one at total fault here and still did nothing but HURT the whole situation. I have known from previous friends of mine that the transcript people at this school are fabulous and getting out transcripts in a timely manner. I have been told that they usually have something like a 2-day turnaround on this. They have a dedicated person who does transcripts. But, my request had to go through her guidance counselor first. I'm sorry but it *is* the guidance counselor's job to take care of stuff like this. I sent this woman an e-mail the day before I sent the forms in explaining in detail what I needed and told her to expect my daughter. She basically blew it off. Probably tossed it in the trash can.

The person who came through for me was the administrative person who handles the transcripts.

As for the recommendation letter--when I sent my e-mail to the teachers I was very humble about it and told them that I did not expect them to do this, that I knew it was "above and beyond" and that I would certainly understand if the could not or preferred not to prepare this letter. I just asked that one of them let me know so that I could move on to another teacher who might actually be able to do one. I got no response at all until this morning. And then the teacher was very apologetic and told me that she pretty much just doesn't check her school e-mail address often enough and had 200 e-mails in her inbox.

Again, I understand that people are busy but the guidance counselor issue was definitely unexcusable. The teacher thing is definitely understandable and just a miscommunication.

I 100% agree that the guidance counselor should have communicated better with you. Perhaps she did get the transcript and the "transcript lady" (I would guess this is the Guidance Dept. Secretary?) lost it among all the graduation/summer school documents? Or perhaps the guidance counselor did forget about it? Or perhaps she did throw it in the trash. I don't know. But your grievance definitely rests on her shoulders. Related question- do these guidance counselors work during the summer at the school?

I know you didn't bash teachers, but I did detect some unappreciativeness/lack of awareness in other posters' responses (If you go back and look at a few, many jumped right to the word "teacher" and made some quick judgments) and it was those comments that I was addressing with the rest of my post, not your OP. There were also some comments that were made about problems in public schools and I included my feelings on that as well. I have to learn how quote more than one person from now on!

I am glad things have worked out and I do hope for the best for your daughter in her future education.

 

[Christine]

Related question- do these guidance counselors work during the summer at the school?

No, apparently the guidance counselors, teachers and principal are all off until the first week of August. There is a bare-bones administrative staff through the summer. I did find out that today (June 30th) would have been the final day to get a transcript out until August. So the school is pretty much closed until August.

 

[WendyDarling]

Our district requires all teachers to return parent phone calls or emails within 24 hours. (Unless I get a call after I have left in the afternoon, I always respond much quicker than that, so I do not know the consequences for not following that rule. I just thought I'd throw that in because it made me wonder if your district has a similar rule or not. I'd be wanting to ask the principal that.)

 

[BuckNaked]

Did your daughter apply, per chance to "Bishop I" and "Bishop O"? Both great schools!! I'm glad it worked out for you, and good luck to your DD!

 

[Christine]

Did your daughter apply, per chance to "Bishop I" and "Bishop O"? Both great schools!! I'm glad it worked out for you, and good luck to your DD!

Yes she did!! I knew a "local" would figure it out.

She applied last year (coming out of 8th grade) and was accepted to both but she really wanted to try public school and the fine arts program. It seemed to be a big disappointment for her although, really, she had a fine time in school this year. I think she misses her little cliquish world of Catholic school believe it or not!

 

[aprilgail2]

I guess I will quit grousing about my son's High School...... the principal is on staff all summer long -- and I think the guidance counselors are there for most of the summer as well.

/QUOTE]

Wow, not here...there is no one in the school other than the janitors and a few office staff, and even they are cut to half their normal hours there for the summer, like 10-1!