I am just so dissapointed right now :(

[VAN]

Again, forget the trip -- this is about something else.

Personally, I wouldn't demand a meeting with the family business ... I'd sit down with your DH and explain that you are very uncomfortable with what has transpired. That you feel, somehow, betrayed and confused with his recent behavior ...

Ask him to, again, explain what is going on - that you just want to get everything out in the open ... after ten years, doesn't he feel that he can share these things with you?

If he still resists, then ask him if he would be willing to meet with a counselor to mediate.

Other than that, I don't think you have too many choices.

 

[OceanAnnie]

How is it going today, Monica? I hope you and your DH can talk at least a little, without so much of the tension. Though I know it must be very hard.

I can't imagine him talking to you the way you describe, especially in light of the secrets he had. It's really startling information. I hope he has stopped the put downs and can put himself in your shoes.

I think it would be helpful to keep a journal to get all of your feelings out. You can have a "conversation" with your DH in the journal. Let him know how you feel in a safe place. Just get it all out. It might help to have that release. It doesn't seem like he's ready to receive your concerns, because he seems verbally hostile. When things have calmed down, I think it is wise to go to a counselor as you stated. If he won't go, go on your own. It would still help.

This is a huge wake up call for change on a lot of fronts. You need to be involved in the financial aspect of your marriage and the extended family needs to be removed (at least at a comfortable distance). Your husband needs to be on the same page with these changes. I echo what others have stated about boundaries. The extended family, boundaries. There doesn't seem to be any! Your husband needs to be on the same page with that one too. I don't know why your husband has not made it a point to stand up for you in regards to his family. That would need to change too. It sounds like there are too many weeds in the garden. It sounds like your husband has not made you a priority. And it sounds like he doesn't even understand why that is upsetting to you.

It's awful to be the last to know on such intimate affairs that should be between just you two. It must hurt to the core. There would be a major reconfiguration underway to make me happy. And the put downs from him, oh they would stop! There would be no taming of the shrew on this one.

I hope your husband comes to his senses and soon. And I wish for you a solid resolution and peace.

 

[lillygator]

I would have to put my foot down if it were me....your DH telling you that you can't go and it PAID for? I would have some serious words.

 

[southern_belle21]

OP I am sorry about your trip. I hope you will do something special for yourself during the week you have taken off work. Setting up an appointment with either your pastor or a good counselor would be a good way to use the time off. If you husband is a member here you might want to be careful what you post at least under a name he would know. While you have every right to ask for sympathy for fellow disers you want to be aware that you husband can read everything you have written.

First of all to you. I'm sorry you are going through this.

Trip aside, I wholeheartedly agree with the PP poster that says you need to call a business meeting with them. You may not be considered part of the "family business" but the minute DH took money for you JOINT account, he made you a part of it. You both put money into that account and without consulting, took YOUR money for HIS business I would want an exact accounting.


As for DH calling you selfish or stupid and basically asking you to leave the home if you go on this trip, BIG BIG BIG RED FLAG!This is not about you taking a trip, but something much deeper. You and DH need to get this straightened out ASAP I think it is time you do some real soul searching and make a fast track to either your pastor or counselor, with or without your DH. 10 years is a long time to be married, but what kind of marriage is it if DH is making you feel this way?

Best of luck to you and I do hope that everything is resolved one way or another.

I have not read the whole thread, but I wanted to comment. I think that things are feeling complicated because it's his family that he works with. What if he had a different job, and he told you that you couldn't take a trip now? Would it feel do personal? If his boss told him that they were just too busy to allow vacations at this time, what would you expect him to do?

Let me tell you a story seven years ago my DH got a bonus check at work and told me to plan a disney trip. This was our FIRST trip ever. So I planned, and, planned and was so excited, as were our 3boys, and my DH. We were to depart for our trip November 1st. Well, oct 31 at 2:30 DH called. Things were bad at work and we had to cancel the trip Really, I had to unpack the van, cancel our reservations, etc and we didn't go. I was crushed and so was he, but we had no choice. Friends suggested I leave him at home and go, but it didn't feel right. We went when things calmed down at work, 3 months later.

Your DH sounds like a good guy. Support him in his decision and find a time that you can go together.

Katy

My husband has had to cancel a trip very last minute (same day as well) once and fly home early once for work too. It is very disappointing but that is life once in a while. The MAJOR differences then are that my husband felt awful about it and encouraged the rest of us to go on without us, that the cancellation was FOR WORK not to help his mother build a house, and that he did not loan any of OUR money to his business. I certainly was not called selfish or stupid for being disappointed that work was messing with our long planned vacations and I cannot fathom my husband threatening to end our marriage if i had gone on the trips anyway (we did). Big differences if you ask me.

Then again, my husband has not sat by while his family treats me as a second class citizen throughout our marriage. He has not taken me to meals with people who do not treat me nicely week after week. He has not tied up our livelihood with such people so that I am forced to spend time with them and accept their decisions without question. He has not kept me in the dark about what goes on in his work. He has not ever taken a lot of money from our accounts to do anything without consulting me. He has never had secrets from me (work or family and certainly not teh two tied together) .I don't know--all of those things do not sit well with me. What I hear when I read the OP's words is a very sweet and loving woman who is not being treated fairly and has begun to second guess her instincts even though they seem to be spot on. It makes me sad.

I'm sorry but the fact that you said basically if you make the decision and go by yourself or with a friend that your husband will ask you to leave your own home? GIGANTIC RED FLAG!

That's ridiculous. Is he really such a child that he would stomp around and tell you that it's over because you stood up for yourself and did something that actually made financial sense (Who wants to throw money away?!) and fun for yourself?

Get thee to a councilor. If that's all it would take than you have deeper issues than this.

I have a whole ENTIRE response typed out, and several responses to individual posts...when my comp decided to do something weird and go back a page...so now its all gone. I'll have to update you all a little later. I have church tonight with out youth. Thanks to you all for the help and support! I'll keep you updated soon!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I have a whole ENTIRE response typed out, and several responses to individual posts...when my comp decided to do something weird and go back a page...so now its all gone. I'll have to update you all a little later. I have church tonight with out youth. Thanks to you all for the help and support! I'll keep you updated soon!

Sorry you lost that response--I know how frustrating that is

I hope your evening at church helps you feel more supported and happy and grounded tonight (even if no one there knows what is going on in your life) and thank you for being kind enough to come back and keep us posted

 

[southern_belle21]

OK, I avoided hopping on here yesterday while everyone was in a frenzy, but I just have to wonder. Since this is not normal behavior for the OP's husband, what are the chances he has planned either a party or a bigger trip as a surprise for the OP? That would explain missing money and having to cancel the reservations. Everyone is jumping to sinister conclusions, but if the husband is not normally like this I have to wonder if he has a surprise of some sort planned for such a special occassion.

Unfortunatly no, he is NOT planning anything more. He loaned out the money to the family business for equipment they were needing. I saw where the check had been written to the business name, and the amount, as well as what it was for at the bottom (loan). It was a nice thought though

I'm sorry but the fact that you said basically if you make the decision and go by yourself or with a friend that your husband will ask you to leave your own home? GIGANTIC RED FLAG!

That's ridiculous. Is he really such a child that he would stomp around and tell you that it's over because you stood up for yourself and did something that actually made financial sense (Who wants to throw money away?!) and fun for yourself?

Get thee to a councilor. If that's all it would take than you have deeper issues than this.

He was angry because I suggested that I go with a friend and he not get to go, and I believe that he said that out of anger (which still doesn't make it right). Any time I have brought that up again he doesn't like it, so right now it's just not talked about anymore.

Has he been willing to put together a delayed anniversary trip? Sit down and plan a disney trip at Christmas time. Beautiful decorations and time away from FAMILY for just the two of you. Pop Century is a budget hotel, but my Dh and I have a great time there by ourselves or with family. It's about memories and time together. You can go on a budget! I hope the line of communication gets better for you two soon.

I actually brought it up today that we TRY to take advantage of the FD and go the week after his bday which would be in Dec (towards the middle before Christmas). We have been twice during this time of year and LOVE IT! So far it is by far our favorite time to go! I really hope this will work out. Thank you very much

I have not read the whole thread, but I wanted to comment. I think that things are feeling complicated because it's his family that he works with. What if he had a different job, and he told you that you couldn't take a trip now? Would it feel do personal? If his boss told him that they were just too busy to allow vacations at this time, what would you expect him to do?

Let me tell you a story seven years ago my DH got a bonus check at work and told me to plan a disney trip. This was our FIRST trip ever. So I planned, and, planned and was so excited, as were our 3boys, and my DH. We were to depart for our trip November 1st. Well, oct 31 at 2:30 DH called. Things were bad at work and we had to cancel the trip Really, I had to unpack the van, cancel our reservations, etc and we didn't go. I was crushed and so was he, but we had no choice. Friends suggested I leave him at home and go, but it didn't feel right. We went when things calmed down at work, 3 months later.

Your DH sounds like a good guy. Support him in his decision and find a time that you can go together.

Katy

Katy, DH IS a good guy, he really is, and this is not something that I would have thought he would do. As far as if he had another job working for someone else, somewhere else...YES MA'AM!!! I WOULD have a problem and take it VERY personal if DH was writing loan checks out of our personal savings acct to his boss for business! Money that had been put back for our own personal use. Would you not? If it was as simple as the fact that they were going to need him to stay and WORK at WORK because they were going to be busy, that would be different. But he isn't just going to be at his business. He is going to be up working on helping to build his mom's new house instead of taking time that he did have off away from his family (and family business) to have our time and our special anniversary trip.

OP I am sorry about your trip. I hope you will do something special for yourself during the week you have taken off work. Setting up an appointment with either your pastor or a good counselor would be a good way to use the time off. If you husband is a member here you might want to be careful what you post at least under a name he would know. While you have every right to ask for sympathy for fellow disers you want to be aware that you husband can read everything you have written.

Thank you. Even though DH is a DIS member, I don't think he's looked at the boards since last year. He says he doesn't have time for looking around on the comp anymore. He's rarely even on his facebook anymore. Plus, he's been having trouble with his comp. BUT just on the off-chance he DOES look on the boards, and wanders over to the community boards to see this, then just maybe he'll start to realize how much he hurt me.

How is it going today, Monica? I hope you and your DH can talk at least a little, without so much of the tension. Though I know it must be very hard.

I can't imagine him talking to you the way you describe, especially in light of the secrets he had. It's really startling information. I hope he has stopped the put downs and can put himself in your shoes.

I think it would be helpful to keep a journal to get all of your feelings out. You can have a "conversation" with your DH in the journal. Let him know how you feel in a safe place. Just get it all out. It might help to have that release. It doesn't seem like he's ready to receive your concerns, because he seems verbally hostile. When things have calmed down, I think it is wise to go to a counselor as you stated. If he won't go, go on your own. It would still help.

This is a huge wake up call for change on a lot of fronts. You need to be involved in the financial aspect of your marriage and the extended family needs to be removed (at least at a comfortable distance). Your husband needs to be on the same page with these changes. I echo what others have stated about boundaries. The extended family, boundaries. There doesn't seem to be any! Your husband needs to be on the same page with that one too. I don't know why your husband has not made it a point to stand up for you in regards to his family. That would need to change too. It sounds like there are too many weeds in the garden. It sounds like your husband has not made you a priority. And it sounds like he doesn't even understand why that is upsetting to you.

It's awful to be the last to know on such intimate affairs that should be between just you two. It must hurt to the core. There would be a major reconfiguration underway to make me happy. And the put downs from him, oh they would stop! There would be no taming of the shrew on this one.

I hope your husband comes to his senses and soon. And I wish for you a solid resolution and peace.

Thank you so much for all of the advice and caring. I hope we will be able to work everything out too. It will just take time.

Well, Disney is a touchy subject in our house right now, and I haven't said anymore about his family or the money, but very soon I am going to insist that we both sit down and go over, at the very least, OUR finances, and try to express to him how much this has effected me. I truly do appreciate all of the help, caring words, and support that all of you fellow DISers have given me This is going to be a slow process, but if we're both willing (which I really think we are) then we can work through it. Thank SO much all of you guys!

 

[mumom95]

Unfortunatly no, he is NOT planning anything more. He loaned out the money to the family business for equipment they were needing. I saw where the check had been written to the business name, and the amount, as well as what it was for at the bottom (loan). It was a nice thought though



He was angry because I suggested that I go with a friend and he not get to go, and I believe that he said that out of anger (which still doesn't make it right). Any time I have brought that up again he doesn't like it, so right now it's just not talked about anymore.



I actually brought it up today that we TRY to take advantage of the FD and go the week after his bday which would be in Dec (towards the middle before Christmas). We have been twice during this time of year and LOVE IT! So far it is by far our favorite time to go! I really hope this will work out. Thank you very much



Katy, DH IS a good guy, he really is, and this is not something that I would have thought he would do. As far as if he had another job working for someone else, somewhere else...YES MA'AM!!! I WOULD have a problem and take it VERY personal if DH was writing loan checks out of our personal savings acct to his boss for business! Money that had been put back for our own personal use. Would you not? If it was as simple as the fact that they were going to need him to stay and WORK at WORK because they were going to be busy, that would be different. But he isn't just going to be at his business. He is going to be up working on helping to build his mom's new house instead of taking time that he did have off away from his family (and family business) to have our time and our special anniversary trip.


Thank you. Even though DH is a DIS member, I don't think he's looked at the boards since last year. He says he doesn't have time for looking around on the comp anymore. He's rarely even on his facebook anymore. Plus, he's been having trouble with his comp. BUT just on the off-chance he DOES look on the boards, and wanders over to the community boards to see this, then just maybe he'll start to realize how much he hurt me.



Thank you so much for all of the advice and caring. I hope we will be able to work everything out too. It will just take time.

Well, Disney is a touchy subject in our house right now, and I haven't said anymore about his family or the money, but very soon I am going to insist that we both sit down and go over, at the very least, OUR finances, and try to express to him how much this has effected me. I truly do appreciate all of the help, caring words, and support that all of you fellow DISers have given me This is going to be a slow process, but if we're both willing (which I really think we are) then we can work through it. Thank SO much all of you guys!

Good luck OP. Although usually a marriage is one of the best parts of a person's life there are times when every couple struggles and needs to talk it over and work it out. You seem level headed and caring, I'm sure you and your dh will figure it out. It sounds like this is out of character for him. Maybe once he sits down and hears how upset you are he will realize what he did. He's probably just over worked and stressed and where that doesn't make what he's done ok, it maybe explains things a bit. We've all done things we weren't proud of at some point in our life.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Okay, so here's my problem with all of this. Basically you're saying your DH has forbidden you from going to Disney or there will be dire reprocussions. WTH? Seriously? Screw him. You tell him if he doesn't allow you to go to Disney, there will be dire reprocussions! Who the hell died and made him king? You have your own business, you're own money and you are an adult. What about the dire reprocussions of him loaning out money to the business without consulting you? So he makes all the decisions and you just go along with the program? Basically he does what he wants and tells you what you can and cannot do. OP, I understand this may be a first, but it surely won't be the last.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Okay, so here's my problem with all of this. Basically you're saying your DH has forbidden you from going to Disney or there will be dire reprocussions. WTH? Seriously? Screw him. You tell him if he doesn't allow you to go to Disney, there will be dire reprocussions! Who the hell died and made him king? You have your own business, you're own money and you are an adult. What about the dire reprocussions of him loaning out money to the business without consulting you? So he makes all the decisions and you just go along with the program? Basically he does what he wants and tells you what you can and cannot do. OP, I understand this may be a first, but it surely won't be the last.

I agree.

 

[hereyago]

You have 2 jobs? yes, I would be going without him. I understand you wanting to stay not to make waves, etc, but instead of counseling, I think he needs to have a wake up call for the way he acted and treated you.


I'd like to see any person try to tell me that I can't go or call me selfish, that just wouldn't fly.

 

[MickeyMomOfThree]

I give you credit for even wanting to go, I think I'd be so sad/confused/upset that I couldn't enjoy myself. Having said that, the budgeet minder in me would be devistated to lose the money we've put in, so I'd probably force myself to get over it and go. I don't understand him not wanting you to go, mine too would be begging me to. That is confusing.
I hope you work it out and don't lose all you've paid into it. I know this isn't about the money but if things are tigt (as they may or may not be) that only makes it worse.
Good Luck to you, this story makes me sad and makes me once again want to squeeze my hubby close. There have been a lot of those threads lately.

 

[momof1princess]

Okay, so here's my problem with all of this. Basically you're saying your DH has forbidden you from going to Disney or there will be dire reprocussions. WTH? Seriously? Screw him. You tell him if he doesn't allow you to go to Disney, there will be dire reprocussions! Who the hell died and made him king? You have your own business, you're own money and you are an adult. What about the dire reprocussions of him loaning out money to the business without consulting you? So he makes all the decisions and you just go along with the program? Basically he does what he wants and tells you what you can and cannot do. OP, I understand this may be a first, but it surely won't be the last.

THIS.
OP, i'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

 

[sbell111]

Okay, so here's my problem with all of this. Basically you're saying your DH has forbidden you from going to Disney or there will be dire reprocussions. WTH? Seriously? Screw him. You tell him if he doesn't allow you to go to Disney, there will be dire reprocussions! Who the hell died and made him king? You have your own business, you're own money and you are an adult. What about the dire reprocussions of him loaning out money to the business without consulting you? So he makes all the decisions and you just go along with the program? Basically he does what he wants and tells you what you can and cannot do. OP, I understand this may be a first, but it surely won't be the last.

Based on the OP's posts, I don't think that escalating the argument with a hearty 'screw you' is going to solve anything. I also don't think that the OP is as willing to flush her spousal relationship as many internet strangers would have her do.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Based on the OP's posts, I don't think that escalating the argument with a hearty 'screw you' is going to solve anything. I also don't think that the OP is as willing to flush her spousal relationship as many internet strangers would have her do.

If the OP doesn't learn to stand up for herself now, on what is obviously a very serious topic for her (not just vacation but her DH dictating what she is and isn't allowed to do and giving away family money without consulting her), she'll never feel the same about her husband and she won't have to flush her marriage down the toilet. Based on his actions and attitudes, her DH is already taking care of that for her.

 

[sbell111]

If the OP doesn't learn to stand up for herself now, on what is obviously a very serious topic for her (not just vacation but her DH dictating what she is and isn't allowed to do and giving away family money without consulting her), she'll never feel the same about her husband and she won't have to flush her marriage down the toilet. Based on his actions and attitudes, her DH is already taking care of that for her.

I'm not getting that from her posts. Instead, it seems that she is taking the high road and letting things cool down. At which time, she will get 'read in' on their finances and make sure that she is getting a say on these types of decisions. She is also working towards rescheduling thier vacation for December.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Okay, so I asked and BEGGED him to just take a few days off so that we could go together..."not a whole week", I said. He just laughed and said that there is no way. Someone needs to be running the office, while he, his brother, and their uncle get work done on his mom's house. Trust me, I thought of this first thing. I didn't see why we couldn't just go for like a long weekend. He did not like this idea either. Just laughs it off as though I'm just being silly. He keeps saying that he had no idea that I would put Disney above him. Guess he really doesn't know me.


I can't go without him because he is very much against it, and I really don't want to make things worse by doing so. As much as I'd LOVE to go and see my friend who lives down there, I have a responsibility to still be a wife and stay here and try to figure out what went wrong, what's going on, and how to fix it.

We don't have separate accounts, and I typically make our financial decisions. With that said, I would never just tell my DH that the 10 year anniversary trip that we had been planning for a year was off and that we were going to lose the money already spent. She is in South Carolina - an easy drive with fairly little expense involved. She could go and spend the week vegging at the resort enjoying the pool and not be out any extra dollars. Who in their right mind would rather lose a weeks cost at a DVC then spend a couple of hundred bucks for their spouse to enjoy it? She'll have a kitchen so there won't even be any additional cost for food - she would have to eat at home too.

This is true. The DVC points are paid for. I wrote the check out for the remaining balance myself. Out of my own (joint) checkbook lol. My friend and I could have stayed at AKV and eaten smart, but it isn't going to be this time.

I'm not sure anyone suggested actually getting divorced over this issue, but the husband's behavior is such that I would definitely be evaluating my marriage and if I would want to be treated that way for the rest of my life by my spouse.....but then honesty is kind of important to me.

Thank you. It is important to any marriage. I truly appreciate your support



Thank you, I REALLY needed to hear that this is possible. You have no idea.




They (DH, his mom, his bro) have "business discussions" all the time. No one else is ever present, or involved. I know, from my end, that I am simply "informed" when something is decided.



We (DH and myself) paid for the DVC points. WE wrote the first half of the payment check out and sent it in. Then I MYSELF wrote the second half of the payment check out and sent it in. The DVC member got BOTH checks, they cleared...she confirmed payment and sent a paper with the reservation confirmation. I assure you. It was (is) paid for.







It is. The DVC member sent us the confirmation ressie and the paper. We have been in good communication. It was all there and ready to go.

Unfortunatly no, he is NOT planning anything more. He loaned out the money to the family business for equipment they were needing. I saw where the check had been written to the business name, and the amount, as well as what it was for at the bottom (loan). It was a nice thought though



He was angry because I suggested that I go with a friend and he not get to go, and I believe that he said that out of anger (which still doesn't make it right). Any time I have brought that up again he doesn't like it, so right now it's just not talked about anymore.



I actually brought it up today that we TRY to take advantage of the FD and go the week after his bday which would be in Dec (towards the middle before Christmas). We have been twice during this time of year and LOVE IT! So far it is by far our favorite time to go! I really hope this will work out. Thank you very much



Katy, DH IS a good guy, he really is, and this is not something that I would have thought he would do. As far as if he had another job working for someone else, somewhere else...YES MA'AM!!! I WOULD have a problem and take it VERY personal if DH was writing loan checks out of our personal savings acct to his boss for business! Money that had been put back for our own personal use. Would you not? If it was as simple as the fact that they were going to need him to stay and WORK at WORK because they were going to be busy, that would be different. But he isn't just going to be at his business. He is going to be up working on helping to build his mom's new house instead of taking time that he did have off away from his family (and family business) to have our time and our special anniversary trip.


Thank you. Even though DH is a DIS member, I don't think he's looked at the boards since last year. He says he doesn't have time for looking around on the comp anymore. He's rarely even on his facebook anymore. Plus, he's been having trouble with his comp. BUT just on the off-chance he DOES look on the boards, and wanders over to the community boards to see this, then just maybe he'll start to realize how much he hurt me.



Thank you so much for all of the advice and caring. I hope we will be able to work everything out too. It will just take time.

Well, Disney is a touchy subject in our house right now, and I haven't said anymore about his family or the money, but very soon I am going to insist that we both sit down and go over, at the very least, OUR finances, and try to express to him how much this has effected me. I truly do appreciate all of the help, caring words, and support that all of you fellow DISers have given me This is going to be a slow process, but if we're both willing (which I really think we are) then we can work through it. Thank SO much all of you guys!

I'm not getting that from her posts. Instead, it seems that she is taking the high road and letting things cool down. At which time, she will get 'read in' on their finances and make sure that she is getting a say on these types of decisions. She is also working towards rescheduling thier vacation for December.

How many times has OP said certain topics (Disney, Disney without him, etc.) are OFF LIMITS? And that he gets very angry when she brings up that subject? Really, who decided it won't be discussed? Her DH. So you think if she's not allowed to discuss Disney/this trip, and he just laughs at her like she's being silly, she's going to demand he talk to her about finances and he's actually going to? How many times has she said it's his, his brother and his mother's business and NO ONE else is allowed be involved or consulted. It's her money going into that company without her consent/permission. I'm sorry, do I think it's worth throwing a marriage away? No, unless this continues. Her DH is treating her like a child, telling her she's selfish and laughing her off when she expresses herself. I stand by my post -- screw him, go to Disney whether he likes it or not. If it was so important to him (not only the trip but their 10 year anniversary), he'd go or he'd be willing to discuss some alternative plans.

 

[sbell111]

Per the OP, her husband is not the monster that you are making him out to be. I have every reason to believe that she is going to do exactly what she said and that everything will be fine.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Per the OP, her husband is not the monster that you are making him out to be. I have every reason to believe that she is going to do exactly what she said and that everything will be fine.

For OP's sake, I hope you're right.

 

[MickeyMomOfThree]

Best of luck OP, 10 years is something to celebrate and I hope at some point you move on from this and get to.

 

[TLuvsD]

I don't think escalation of the situation is a good idea. She and her DH need time. Time to think (for both of them), time to get financial information, separate the business money from the household money (for his family business and her business), time to talk to a pastor or counselor. Work on the reschedule of the vacation. Time to evaluate the whole picture. Then make decisions on how to move forward.

Right now she's hurt, he's defensive, nothing positive is goiing to happen by insisting on the trip.