Hydration and nutrition...commentary requested

[laxdef69]

OK.

Today I rode 59 (3.5 hours) miles then ran 5.3 miles (55 minutes)...its part of the training plan for the 1/2 Ironman I am doing in about 4 weeks.

I weighed myself BAN (yes, Bare A$$ Naked) this morning before heading out...I was 207 lbs (easy ladies )

During the course of the 4.5 hour workout, I drank about 2 Liters of Cytomax at 50% of the recommended dilution (I use the dilution since I am worried that if I train with it at 100% and drop a bottle on race day, my whole fueling strategy doesn't go out the window).

In addition to the Cytomax, I took in 2 PowerGels (1 @ 2.5 hours on the bike and one at the start of the run, and 2 Cliff Bars (one at the end of hour 1 on the bike, the next at the end of hour two on the bike).

I also took 6 tablets of Source Natural's triathlete pills 45 minutes before starting anything this morning; I also had one small banana just before getting on the bike.

After the workout, I weighed 202 BAN...which means that, even though I drank about 4.4 lbs of fluid, I still lost 5 lbs through sweating, for a total loss of NINE pounds, or about 5% of my total body weight (no trouble easing the ladies back now I bet).

I can't possibly carry that much water while riding in the Tri, (even if I used a Camelbak which I HATE using since it will be that much more stuff to wear, pack, and put on in transition), which will be hotter, more humid, and more hilly.

In addition, I felt a bit nauseous (which just doesn't happen to me...my circle of friends say I have an iron stomach); I don't know if that was due to too many carbs (another reason why I drink the Cytomax at 1/2 strength to cut down on the carb intake) or just losing that much water through my pores; the nausea went away after I took in a lot of water, a protein recovery shake and a bit of simple carbs (a bagel).

Any suggestions from the more experienced endurance athletes? I'm not aware of any training that I can do to sweat less, and this event already had me intimidated before I realized just how much water I can lose during a workout.

Thank you!

Mike

LINKS TO PRODUCTS BELOW:

Cytosport:

http://www.cytosport.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=5

Source Natural's triathlete pills

http://www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=8271

Clif Bars:

http://www.clifbar.com/food/products_clif_bar/

Powerbar Gels:

http://www.powerbar.com/Products/PowerGel/flavors.aspx?id=FD1668DA-9458-499B-8BD6-848E812C8CDF

 

[bigdave10001]

Here is a good article on Running Times website.

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=8290

I would have expected you to be more then 5 pounds lighter. Seems like you did a good job. Problem is your body can only process so much fluid in an hour. If you take in more it just sits in your stomach. If you are sweating more then that there isn't anything more you can do. You can get acclimated to the conditions to help out a bit.

I run in South Carolina so I know a lot about sweat

 

[Steffwalks]

Just a small banana? Approximately 70 calories. Not nearly enough for a man your size.

What do you eat the day before?

You don't have anything with iron. Athletes sweat out most of their iron.

Your salt and potassium intake is pretty small.

I need more information to tell you what is going wrong, but those are a couple of quick observations.

 

[mogulskr]

Mike, I would say a 5 pound loss is doing pretty well based on your size and the amount of time. You will never be able to replace all the fluid you lose. You want to shoot for a weight loss of under 3%. Which looking at you weight before and after you did that. The body can only asorb about 20 ounces per hour. If you try to drink as much as you sweet you will end up with excess fluid sloshing around in your stomach. The good thing is you are working out a plan before race day.

Make sure you are always drinking but space it out so a 20 oz. bottle will last you around an hour. I personally have trouble eating before an endurance event so I will have something (oatmeal, bagel) about 2 hours before and then use gels every hour after that. I will try to eat solid food every 4 hours, but it is usually small like 1/2 PB sandwich. What ever you eat keep it small so you can digest it easier.

I'm looking at it from a 24 hour MTB race though. In the case of a say 6 hours race make sure you eat well before the race and then I would rely on the gels to get me through. It looks like you have plenty of fuel with the gels and the Cytomax.

Good Luck!

 

[laxdef69]

In looking at my original post, I forgot to include that I finished a package of Clif shots, Margarita flavor with 3x the sodium during that workout.

http://www.clifbar.com/food/products_shot_bloks/

That added about 420 mg of sodium.

I refuel after almost every workout with:

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2986027&cp=2108294&parentPage=family

I take 1-2 scoops of that

2-4 tbs of ground flax seed

1/2 cup plain yogurt

1 cup soy milk

1 banana

and assorted frozen fruit, usually blueberries, or strawberries. I also have a bagel and 2-3 TBS of peanut butter to try to get to the 4:1 carb to protein ratio for recovery.

I also take a multi-vitamin from Trader Joes, their Men's once daily multi-vitamin and mineral supplement.

Regarding Iron, normally I eat red meat 6-8 oz 2-3x/week...I haven't had any issues with donating blood...they drop your blood into copper sulfate, and time how long it takes to drop to the bottom...the last time it dropped so fast that the girl commented that she was surprised it didn't break through the bottom.

We pretty much food shop at Whole Foods; I don't eat anything with trans fat, and mostly don't eat stuff that isn't organically certified. We don't have any meat that isn't growth hormone or antibiotic free, so I am hopeful that there is some good stuff going on there...goodness knows it costs enough!

Thank you again for your help!

Scott: Thank you too! I consciously work to make each bottle last an hour;all my idiot buddies laugh hysterically at me when I show up with 2 bottles in the cage, and two in my bike jersey. Most of the literally take in 1/2 the fluid I do...I hate them :/

Mike

 

[Steffwalks]

Okay, that's more help.

You can't help how much you sweat. But I think you need more carbs and fewer minerals. An endurance athlete needs approximately .5 grams of carbs per pound of body weight. You might try drinking more carb rich drinks without the minerals. The minerals in your system become more and more concentrated as you sweat. You might try some pretzels, potatoes, jelly beans, etc for refueling instead of the clif bars.

It would be worth experimenting with.

 

[laxdef69]

Connie:

Is that .5 grams carbs/lb of body weight daily, just before, during or after a workout, or what?

Thank you for your help on this...its definitely a concern!

Mike

 

[Steffwalks]

It is .5 grams after a workout. However, you need to keep the carbs going throughout the workout because you really need to keep your glycogen resources up and replenished. I know that you aren't big on carbs, but 60% of your daily diet should be made up of carbs. Avoid the typical carbs like white bread, white rice, ...basically white foods, (except when actually in a race because then you want to replenish quickly and often). Concentrate your carb needs on fruits and veggies including starchy vegetables, like beans, peas, corn, whole wheat pasta, brown or wild rice, and whole wheat bread.

When you are rehydrating, think about using watermelon and other really watery foods, like grapes and juices. Your recovery meal really concentrates on protein, which you need as well, but it won't replace the glycogen that you desperately need.

I have used Crank eFuel and eGel at: http://www.cranksports.com/ really well during races. They offer electrolyte replacement and carbs. There are other good sport drinks and gels out there, I just happen to use these. My DH sweats a lot too, but the cranksport products help him hydrate without leaving him feeling sick or drained.

 

[laxdef69]

Connie:

I'll check on the Cranksport supplements.

I have a question about post recovery meals though.

.5 grams/lb would be about 100 grams total carbs.

I think that I am actually pretty close to that with the peanut butter and bagel.

The bagel below has 62 grams of carbs, and the peanut butter add another 20...which, if I understand the formula correctly, I am about 20 grams short...I can make that up in graham crackers or something, or a couple of pieces of whole grain toast, no?

http://www.panerabread.com/menu/nutrition/profile.php?id=53

Thank you VERY much for your assistance too...this tri is in three weeks!!!

 

[Steffwalks]

Can you add juice to your whey drink and still make it palatable? Add some orange and get something that tastes a little like an orange julius? That would probably make up the difference. And really add in your rehydration! Since, it is summer, you could have fresh watermelon instead of the berries and rehydrate even better.

I wish I could tell you exactly what would work for you. But only you can figure it out. We all work so differently. LIke, I can't eat bananas and do a race. The things just lay in my stomach like a rock and make me feel bad. But, that's just me. It would be better if they did this!

 

[wtpclc]

Mike - I'm worried about the nausea. High carbs I heard ws more light headed. Nausea tends to be signs of heat exhaustion. DO tehy not have refueling stops in the bike portion of the Ironman? Can you add a basic water bottle to yuour bike to get more fluids? SOryr, I don't knwo much about tri's, but I do know fluids adn a loss of 5 pounds and nausea sounds like you coudl have been enroute to heat stroke and that scares me.

 

[mkymsehi]

For hydration, be sure to drink enough throughout the day. When you pee, it should be light straw yellow or clear in color. Dark yellow means you're dehydrated.

When exercising, 10-12 ounces every hour. That amounts to about 6 sips from the water fountain, every two miles. One sip is about half an ounce. If you have fluids sloshing around in your stomach, that's too much. Too much water dilutes the sodium in your bloodstream, that's a bad thing!

For fuel, take either a gel, sports jelly beans, powerbar, or pretzels every four miles.


I'll share this pacing strategy article from our Honolulu Marathon Clinic website. It's written by Brian Clark, a local running legend.

Marathon Pacing Strategy

by webmaster
Pacing is the most important aspect of marathon racing. Your success in a long race depends on conserving your energy during the crucial first hour. That’s when your body is running on the greatest proportion of its limited stores of muscle glycogen.

You will hit the wall once you run out of muscle glycogen. If you don’t want to suffer the ignominy of a crashing slow down in the last hour of the race, you must wait for fat metabolism to turn on during the first hour. Once you are running efficiently on a combination of fat and glycogen, you can run for a long time at your desired race pace.


There are two ways to think about your race pace: It’s the average pace that you are capable of holding for the race as a whole, and it’s also your pacing strategy. You won’t really know how to predict your average marathon pace unless you have run a marathon recently. Training runs are not good predictors because racing is radically different from training.

In lieu of running a marathon, you could do a series of shorter practice races (up to 30K) or a series of long time trials. Time trials and practice races can give you the experience necessary to predict a reasonable and accurate finish time for a marathon. Once you are able to predict your average pace for the whole marathon, your pacing strategy will determine whether you achieve your personal racing goal.


Do you personally want to finish and enjoy the race, or do you mostly want to compete and perform? The way you answer this question will determine your pacing strategy. There are only two effective ways to pace a marathon, and they both involve going out slowly. But how slow is slow? Our racing experience in BC Endurance Trainings indicates that you should complete your first hour between four and eleven percent slower than your average predicted marathon pace.


The slower you run the first hour of the race, the faster you’ll run the last hour. Therefore, if finishing and enjoying the race is your goal, then you should complete your first hour about 11% slower than your average marathon pace. You won’t finish the marathon with your fastest possible time by using this strategy, but you’ll be amazed by the energy you still have at the finish. And it’s fun to blow by people in the last hour or two of a marathon. This pacing strategy involves a gradual increase in pace from start to finish of the race.


Some athletes are more concerned about how fast they go than how much fun they have. If you are concerned about your finish time, you must run as evenly as possible, while also allowing time for your body to warm up fat metabolism. Our experience indicates that finishing your first hour 4.2% slower than your average predicted pace will enable you to achieve your fastest possible finish time.


Running 4.2% slower than average marathon pace for the first 10K of a five-hour marathon means you will have lost three minutes. Those three minutes can be made up easily in the middle miles once you are running efficiently on fat and glycogen. This is so simple, yet a five-hour marathoner who goes out three minutes faster than five-hour pace ends up running six minutes faster than he/she should.


Beware. Abundant energy and an aggressive racing attitude can wane and disappear by the mid-point of a long race. If you want to finish with a best effort and your fastest performance, you must be prepared to hold yourself back in the early going, shave a little time in the middle miles, and hold on for dear life at the end.


Pacing is the name of the marathoning game. If you can predict your time to the minute, and you can be honest about your personal goals, then you ought to be able to calculate your pace for the first 10K and pace yourself accordingly for a successful marathon experience.


This article is courtesy of Brian Clarke, BC Endurance Training, and is endorsed by the Hawaii Sports Foundation and the Honolulu Marathon Clinic.

 

[solotraveler]

Mike - I'm worried about the nausea. High carbs I heard ws more light headed. Nausea tends to be signs of heat exhaustion. DO tehy not have refueling stops in the bike portion of the Ironman? Can you add a basic water bottle to yuour bike to get more fluids? SOryr, I don't knwo much about tri's, but I do know fluids adn a loss of 5 pounds and nausea sounds like you coudl have been enroute to heat stroke and that scares me.

You read my mind... what time are you doing these runs/bikes? If it's hot and humid, it doesn't really matter what you are putting in if you are immediately sweating it all out.

Is there any way to modify your training to do it early or later to avoid the heat of the day? Perhaps even moving indoors?

Also, what are you eating in terms of real food during your meals? It sounds like you have a really smart plans in terms of what you are eating before your workouts, but how are you fueling the tank the night before?

I am certainly no expert, but this is what popped in my head reading your story.... Be careful out there

Kevin

 

[mkymsehi]

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-242-302--5382-0,00.html

Good hydration article from Runners World magazine.

 

[laxdef69]

You read my mind... what time are you doing these runs/bikes? If it's hot and humid, it doesn't really matter what you are putting in if you are immediately sweating it all out.

Is there any way to modify your training to do it early or later to avoid the heat of the day? Perhaps even moving indoors?

Also, what are you eating in terms of real food during your meals? It sounds like you have a really smart plans in terms of what you are eating before your workouts, but how are you fueling the tank the night before?

I am certainly no expert, but this is what popped in my head reading your story.... Be careful out there

Kevin

Thanks for the insights...my long rides generally start about 0500, so that I am done by 0830....I generally try to eat a pasta or salad and legumes each night...mostly salads with maybe chicken breast, fish or steak.

Tonight I fueled poorly, with two beers, a dinner salad and two beers :

 

[mkymsehi]

Here's a great article on hydrating in our local paper a few weeks back.

Fun in Hawaii sun calls for proper hydration

Hawai'i's reputation as an ideal playground for recreational athletes is founded on the reality of clear skies and sunshine virtually all year long.

But year-round sunshine, especially in our signature high-humidity summer months — requires year-round vigilance for dehydration, heat exhaustion and other dangerous conditions.

At this week's U.S. Youth Soccer Far West Regionals at the Waipi'o Peninsula Soccer Park, as many as a dozen players and spectators have been treated for dehydration and heat-related illness.

The prevailing assumption is that many others suffered minor heat-related symptoms that, while easily avoidable, could have escalated to more serious conditions.

Cynthia Shimoda and Alison Kuramoto are among a team of athletic trainers on hand to treat the estimated 8,000 players, coaches, spectators and administrators on and around the fields this week.

Both have seen their share of overheated athletes in need of cooling care, and both are quick to emphasize that nearly all of the cases they've seen could have been avoided.

"If you're thirsty, it's already too late," Shimoda says. "You're already dehydrated."

As Shimoda notes, proper hydration is crucial for the body's highly efficient cooling mechanisms to work properly.

Under normal conditions, the body reacts to excessive heat by sweating. As perspiration evaporates from the skin, the body slowly cools. (Heat is also lost by breathing out moisture.)

However, if a body is not properly hydrated, the system can't work as efficiently as it should and the resulting accumulation of excess heat begins to quite literally cook the person from the inside out.

"When you're sweating, your skin will be cool and clammy," Shimoda said. "But when you stop sweating, the skin dries. At this point, your body is going into shock and is shutting down."

Dehydration may result in heat exhaustion, the symptoms of which include heavy sweating, cramping, nausea, fatigue and dizziness.

Untreated, heat exhaustion can progress into heat stroke, a potentially fatal condition that occurs when the body's temperature exceeds 104 degrees.

Symptoms of heat stroke may include rapid heartbeat, elevated or lowered blood pressure, confusion, headache, nausea and fainting.

Ultimately, heat stroke may result in organ failure, coma and death.

Shimoda and Kuramoto say maintaining proper hydration is an ongoing process. They advise athletes to stay hydrated well before the start of any athletic event. Consuming at least eight ounces of water or sport drink before an event should ensure a healthy start.

Athletes can also minimize the enervating effect of the sun by wearing light breathable fabrics (synthetics like DryFit work well in wicking away moisture for proper evaporation), applying and reapplying sunscreen (minimum spf 30), and shielding themselves with UV-protective sunglasses, hats and umbrellas.

Once activity begins, athletes need to rehydrate regularly, though the exact amount will vary based on exertion and climate conditions. Endurance athletes, for example, are advised to drink six to eight ounces of fluid every 20 minutes.

One reliable measure is the so-called pee test: If an athlete's urine is clear, he or she is adequately hydrated. If it's dark yellow, chances are dehydration is occurring.

As many young athletes learned this week, humidity can exacerbate heat-related problems because moisture in the air can impede perspiration.

Mild dehydration can be treated by drinking water and/or sports drink (maintaining electrolyte balance is important to allow muscles to absorb fluid), changing into dry clothes, applying cool towels and resting.

More serious forms of heat exhaustion may require immediate icing, an IV infusion for faster rehydration, and immediate medical attention.

TIPS FOR COMBATING, TREATING HEAT AILMENTS

Dehydration can affect an athlete's ability to perform, causing headaches, cramps and excessive fatigue. Coupled with playing in a hot and humid climate, dehydration can cause heat illnesses such as heat exhaustion and heat stroke.

The National SAFE KIDS Campaign suggests children over 90 pounds should hydrate with 6 to 12 ounces of water or a sports drink at least one hour before practice. During activity, children should be drinking 6 to 9 ounces every 20 minutes.

Below are more tips.
FLUID EXAMPLES FOR CHILDREN

Over 90 pounds: 1 hour before activity, 6 to 12 ounces

Under 90 pounds: 1 hour before activity, 3 to 6 ounces

During activity: every 20 minutes, 3 to 5 ounces (under 90 pounds), 6 to 9 ounces (over 90 pounds)
After activity: to replace fluids, up to 8 ounces per half pound lost (under 90 pounds), up to 12 ounces per half pound lost (over 90 pounds)

DEHYDRATION

Signs and symptoms

Dry mouth

Thirst

Being irritable or cranky

Headache

Seeming bored or uninterested

Dizziness

Cramps

Excessive fatigue

Child not able to run as fast or play as well as usual


Treatment

Move child to a shaded or air-conditioned area. Give him or her fluids to drink

HEAT CRAMPS

Signs and symptoms

Intense pain (not associated with pulling or straining a muscle)

Persistent muscle contractions that continue during and after exercise

Treatment

The child should be given a sports drink to help replace fluid and sodium losses

Light stretching, relaxation and massage of the cramped muscles may help

HEAT EXHAUSTION

Signs and symptoms

Child finds it hard or impossible to keep playing

Loss of coordination, dizziness or fainting

Dehydration