How would you feel if there was a "Sambo" in your neighborhood?

[Pongo69]

The fact remains that the past did happen. For years and years and years the government down to the smallest man has apologized and tried to make repairs to be assured that this never ever happens again. But the past can't stay in the past because it's always being thrown in peoples faces. It took YEARS for women of ANY color to have lots of the rights we have today. I look back on those times and celebrate where we're at, not wallow in what "used to be". No one should tell someone to get over it, especially if they actually lived it. But how many people today have lived through those time...some yes, but most of us have only reaped the rewards of the changes that have come from those. It is history. As long as we continue to let what "used to be" dictate our feelings and thoughts, we will never move forward, only sit stagnant and grow bitter.
And excuse me for saying it, but you have no idea what problems you would or wouldn't have it the "shoe were on the other foot". You've never worn that shoe. And truth be told...the shoe WAS on the other foot and that's where all this came from.

We are moving forward and for that I am grateful, but I guess we just have to agree to dissagree about this

When I see Hispanic Magazines I don't have a problem with it.

When I see any type of ethnic magazine I no matter where I'm at I don't have a problem with it.

When I see African American magazines of course I don't have a problem with it.

Why would I have a problem with any of the?

I don't understand how that is seperating us from you or discriminating against anyone for that fact. If you look thru Ebony you would see there are some white Ebony models.

Also, I definitely do not believe these issues are keeping us stagnant and I definitely don't understand why people have issues with this, but for each his own.

 

[swilphil]

As far as the lawn jockey go I could care less what you put on your lawn.

I like Aunt Jamima pancakes and Mrs.Butterworth syrup. I don't see anything wrong with that nor do I look at white people crazy for buying it.

As far as the, Why is there a black Miss America Pagent and No white America Pagent take a look back in history. Minorities were not allowed to participate in these pagents which I'm sure you knew this.

You all had the White Miss America Pagents for years while minorities stood on the sidelines. Now some of you claim to not understand *WHY* African Americans have our own Magazines,Award Shows,Cothing lines, Pagents and the Naacp ect... If you don't understand why--maybe it's not for YOU to understand.

Another thing, don't show ignorance telling people to get over something when you have no clue of what minorities went thru back in the day, and still going thru now in some parts.

Even though there is still racism though not as bad as it was during the times of slavery, as a black woman I would never tell someone who went thru slavery to "get over it" no more than I would tell a Jewish person to get over their feelings about the Holocaust.

BTW, I must say I find it very ironic that years ago and today we black people were made fun of for our skin tone, full lips, hair and everything else you can think of, but now -and-*** NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE HERE**** you have these white woman all over having butt and body fat injected into their lips for a *fuller pout* and other parts of their body.

If big lips are so bad why do you want them and please tell me why is tanning such a big deal

I'm not trying to offend anyone with my question but I would really like to know..anyone?

Pongo--You bring up great points about the different pageants. They were started for a reason. Now, I find them all to be a little silly, but if it gives more girls college scholarships then I'm all for it.

It's funny about the whole tanning thing. When I'm outside with my black friends they all run for cover when the sun's out while I try to soak up as much as I can. I definitely look better when I have a little tan. My skin is pasty white most of the year, and I look like death warmed over.

 

[swilphil]

The fact remains that the past did happen. For years and years and years the government down to the smallest man has apologized and tried to make repairs to be assured that this never ever happens again. But the past can't stay in the past because it's always being thrown in peoples faces. It took YEARS for women of ANY color to have lots of the rights we have today. I look back on those times and celebrate where we're at, not wallow in what "used to be". No one should tell someone to get over it, especially if they actually lived it. But how many people today have lived through those time...some yes, but most of us have only reaped the rewards of the changes that have come from those. It is history. As long as we continue to let what "used to be" dictate our feelings and thoughts, we will never move forward, only sit stagnant and grow bitter.
And excuse me for saying it, but you have no idea what problems you would or wouldn't have it the "shoe were on the other foot". You've never worn that shoe. And truth be told...the shoe WAS on the other foot and that's where all this came from.

Hmmmmm, maybe I'm not following your metaphor correctly, but I think Pongo did wear the shoe that you are talking about, at least more than anybody else who is posting on this thread.

 

[Pongo69]

What about the indians? IMHO, white men treated indians far worse than blacks even through slavery. White men killed indians hundreds at a time including women and children and took away everything and to this day many live in poverty on land "given" to them by the white men who stole the land in the first place. Many feel safe on their reservations and do not leave. No one seems to care about their heritage yet you dont see or hear the indians complaining how wronged they were day in and day out.

No one can help being born to whatever skin color they have but it is up to that individual to decide what to do with oneself. You can blame others for your failures and be held back and never get anything accomplished or you can set goals and not let anyone (past or present) get in your way. It is all in the mindset and it is up to each and every unique individual to decide what you want out of life.

Im not lily white, my pigment will not allow it. I tan very easily. I'm not trying to be some one else because I have a tan.

I agree, but in all honesty unless I missed something I don't see a black person including myself complaining about how we were treated. I didn't grow up during that time so I would be a fool to say, I know how it feels to be treated that way.

The point I was trying to make to hugsquared and hemispheredancer, is that I don't see anything wrong with African Americans having the Naacp, Ebony or anything pertaining to black heritage no more than I think they'res anything wrong with Native Americans, Hispanics, Irish or Italians having shows, magazines or anything pertaining to their heritage.


Honestly I just do not understand why she thinks it's moving us backwords.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honestly I just do not understand why she thinks it's moving us backwords.

I guess often times I see it as very segregating.

 

[hugsquared]

Honestly I just do not understand why she thinks it's moving us backwords.

Never said it was moving you backwards, just keeping you from moving forward.
And I suppose you're right, we have to agree to disagree. I have a problem with any pagent, scholarship, program, job, school or anything that caters to only one race...no matter what that race may be.

And for Sherri, if you had read the last sentence of my last post, you would have seen that I noted the shoe had in deed been on the other foot.

Pongo, I mean no disrespect to you...your opinion is just as valid as mine. There are simply ways of being "champions of the cause" that I strongly disagree with. Thats what makes us all different and unique. Would be a boring place otherwise.
On the hand, we both love Disney or we wouldn't be here...thats something we can both agree on.

 

[Southern4sure]

I agree, but in all honesty unless I missed something I don't see a black person including myself complaining about how we were treated. I didn't grow up during that time so I would be a fool to say, I know how it feels to be treated that way.

The point I was trying to make to hugsquared, is that I don't see anything wrong with African Americans having the Naacp, Ebony or anything pertaining to black heritage no more than I think they'res anything wrong with Native Americans, Hispanics, Irish or Italians having shows, magazines or anything pertaining to their heritage.


Honestly I just do not understand why she thinks it's moving us backwords.

I didnt mean for my post to be directed to you personally. Im sorry if it appeared that way. I know you were not complaining but you have to admit there are those who do complain. I only wanted to point out that other races have been persecuted by whites also.

 

[Pongo69]

Never said it was moving you backwards, just keeping you from moving forward.
And I suppose you're right, we have to agree to disagree. I have a problem with any pagent, scholarship, program, job, school or anything that caters to only one race...no matter what that race may be.

And for Sherri, if you had read the last sentence of my last post, you would have seen that I noted the shoe had in deed been on the other foot.

Pongo, I mean no disrespect to you...your opinion is just as valid as mine. There are simply ways of being "champions of the cause" that I strongly disagree with. Thats what makes us all different and unique. Would be a boring place otherwise.
On the hand, we both love Disney or we wouldn't be here...thats something we can both agree on.

Don't worry, I never looked at our conversation as being disrespectful. As you stated we just agree to disagree which is cool

 

[Pongo69]

I didnt mean for my post to be directed to you personally. Im sorry if it appeared that way. I know you were not complaining but you have to admit there are those who do complain. I only wanted to point out that other races have been persecuted by whites also.

No problem S4S.

I agree with you about other races being persecuted, but in this day and age you also have people discriminating against those in their own race.

So I definitely wouldn't say it' a white thing because sadly it's reaches all across the board.

 

[dis ms.]

What about us white folks that feel the NAACP is discriminating us? Can we have an association for white people? Why is there a black Miss America pageant and no white Miss America pageant? They can compete in the white one but there are no whites in theirs??

I understand what you're saying. As a black woman, I won't try to explain a minority person's feelings of discrimination. That is something too individual and personal to try and reason out, IMO. I will say that I think the reasoning behind Miss Black America or Miss Hispanic whatever, etc. is that minorities typically are not very well represented in the mainstream pageants. I could be wrong, but I doubt that the percentage of minorities in those pageants is representative of the actual population.

I live in Iowa. It is an understatement to say that there aren't many minorities here. Still, I don't feel the need to start a Miss Black State Fair competition just because--as far as I know--there has never been a black state fair queen. But I could see why someone else might want to. I just don't care about things like that.

BTW, I don't see it as "crying wolf" when someone says they are offended or feels discriminated about something. Everyone is different. What offends one black person may not offend me. You say you feel discriminated by the NAACP, and you are entitled to those feelings. I'm certainly not going to tell you to "get over it".

DDW-are you KKK? Seems like you might be and I just want to know.

That was just so tacky and ridiculous. Was that really necessary?

 

[Aidensmom]

Wow, this thread has really taken a turn.

First, I would like to say that racism is still very alive today. Believe me, I have been stressing for 2 weeks over my sons birthday party today, where my racist FIL would be attending, along with several people of other races that are the friends and families of my son. (Thankfully, FIL kept his thoughts to himself.)

Secondly, I still really want to understand from someone why these statues in someone's yard makes them racist. So far it seems the main argument I have read is that it is because the statues have exaggerated features. Well, again, I don't understand that. There are people with exaggerated features, so why is that wrong? I don't own either of these statues that have been discussed, but I think the fishing guy one is adorable, and if I had somewhere it looked good, I would not mind having one. Why is that wrong, how does it make me racist? I would think it to be more racist to not want a statue of someone of another race in one's possession.

I also (and so does DH) think that black babies are WAY cuter than white, hispanic, or asian babies . We have been looking into foster parenting and several times said to each other we would love to have a cute little black baby, they are just so adorable. Does that make us racist?

 

[va32h]

We have been looking into foster parenting and several times said to each other we would love to have a cute little black baby, they are just so adorable. Does that make us racist?

Well, to be honest, that remark does sound rather condescending. I would talk that way about a puppy, not a human being.

I am not trying to be critical at all - I don't know you, I would never presume to know what is in your mind or your heart. But if I heard a white woman saying "oh those black babies are so adorable, I wish I had a cute little black baby", I'd be put off.

In fact, there is a scene pretty much just like that in the film "The Color Purple". A rich white couple is pointing out how cute Oprah Winfrey's character's children are. Oprah is flattered at first, but she soon tires of seeing her children poked and pinched like a couple of prize showdogs.

So far it seems the main argument I have read is that it is because the statues have exaggerated features. Well, again, I don't understand that.

Images of blacks with exaggerated features were popular during the post-slavery and Jim Crow days. Modern artwork or sculpture that harkens back to these days evokes a very unfortunate and ugly part of our history. If one displays the objects of that unpleasant time, it isn't hard to imagine that one also holds the opinions of that time. I would no more put a lawn jockey in my yard than I would display a sign saying "whites only". They are both relics of the same ugly era.

 

[dis ms.]

Wow, this thread has really taken a turn.

First, I would like to say that racism is still very alive today. Believe me, I have been stressing for 2 weeks over my sons birthday party today, where my racist FIL would be attending, along with several people of other races that are the friends and families of my son. (Thankfully, FIL kept his thoughts to himself.)

Secondly, I still really want to understand from someone why these statues in someone's yard makes them racist. So far it seems the main argument I have read is that it is because the statues have exaggerated features. Well, again, I don't understand that. There are people with exaggerated features, so why is that wrong?

Aidensmom, I'm so glad your FIL didn't ruin your son's birthday party!

As far as SOME OF the statues, the features aren't merely exaggerated. They are exaggerated to the point of being cartoonish. Humongous red lips, etc. It harkens back to the historical cartoonish images of blacks in advertisements, etc. Back then, there weren't many realistic images of blacks being put out to counter the cartoonish ones.

I can't really help you understand if you don't. It's just a sensitive issue for some black people.

 

[mtblujeans]

Sambo's is a negative portrayal of african American's.

I believe that Denny's used to be Sambo's and they had to change their name--anybody else remember this?

I think I remember this. Wasn't there a little boy with an umbrella (or something) and a tiger? A stack of pancakes with butter dripping down them seems to come to mind too but I don't know why....

 

[Aidensmom]

Images of blacks with exaggerated features were popular during the post-slavery and Jim Crow days. Modern artwork or sculpture that harkens back to these days evokes a very unfortunate and ugly part of our history. If one displays the objects of that unpleasant time, it isn't hard to imagine that one also holds the opinions of that time. I would no more put a lawn jockey in my yard than I would display a sign saying "whites only". They are both relics of the same ugly era.

My point is, that there ARE people with exaggerated features, so if there is artwork that encompasses them, I see that more as seeing the artisticness in what they look like, not as being discriminatory. I think that saying that someone having a statue that looks like someone with exagerrated features is racist, that you are actually discriminating against someone with exaggerated features.

As far as who I think is cute, I see absolutely nothing wrong with seeing that some people with certain features are cuter than others. We ALL do it. Especially when it comes to picking our mates, we have our types. I am sorry, but I think the idea that thinking that someone of a particular race is better looking makes you racist against that race is really quite ironic.

 

[dis ms.]

Well, to be honest, that remark does sound rather condescending. I would talk that way about a puppy, not a human being.

I am not trying to be critical at all - I don't know you, I would never presume to know what is in your mind or your heart. But if I heard a white woman saying "oh those black babies are so adorable, I wish I had a cute little black baby", I'd be put off.

In fact, there is a scene pretty much just like that in the film "The Color Purple". A rich white couple is pointing out how cute Oprah Winfrey's character's children are. Oprah is flattered at first, but she soon tires of seeing her children poked and pinched like a couple of prize showdogs.




Images of blacks with exaggerated features were popular during the post-slavery and Jim Crow days. Modern artwork or sculpture that harkens back to these days evokes a very unfortunate and ugly part of our history. If one displays the objects of that unpleasant time, it isn't hard to imagine that one also holds the opinions of that time. I would no more put a lawn jockey in my yard than I would display a sign saying "whites only". They are both relics of the same ugly era.

Well said!

 

[dis ms.]

My point is, that there ARE people with exaggerated features, so if there is artwork that encompasses them, I see that more as seeing the artisticness in what they look like, not as being discriminatory. I think that saying that someone having a statue that looks like someone with exagerrated features is racist, that you are actually discriminating against someone with exaggerated features.

Okay, I just really don't think people are walking around with features THIS exaggerated. I'm talking lips you could carry your car keys in!

Picasso painted images of people. I don't see any folks with two eyes on one side of their head. But, no one is trying to say Picasso's paintings were realistic, either. These historical cartoonish images of blacks were portrayed as the real thing back then. That's the rub. Exaggerated, IMHO, is an understatement.

 

[va32h]

My point is, that there ARE people with exaggerated features, so if there is artwork that encompasses them, I see that more as seeing the artisticness in what they look like, not as being discriminatory.

But the people who created these kinds of artwork did not do so to celebrate the uniqueness of black features. They did it to mock and insult.

Advertising images from the 20's -40's that showed mammies and Uncle Toms and other stereotypical images were not sensitive artists looking to depict the variety of features in the African American community. They were Stepin Fetchit images, of blacks enjoying watermelon and fried chicken, and carrying fruit on their heads and being subservient to whites.

If you can't see why that's ugly and offensive - I don't know what I could say to make you change your mind.

I am sorry, but I think the idea that thinking that someone of a particular race is better looking makes you racist against that race is really quite ironic.

It's not the fact that you think it. It's the idea of a white woman saying indulgently "oh those little black babies are so cute. I'd love to have one."

It sounds like noblisse oblige - since you are of the prevailing white class, the race which is the standard and arbiter of what is attractive, the race to which all others are compared (black people have full lips compared to whites , black people have curly hair compared to whites)

This is not your doing or your fault, or mine or anyone elses of the last several generations either. These are attitudes and presumptions that have been around for hundreds of years.

In college, I took a Humanities class that focused on stereotypes of minorities, as depicted in literature, advertising and film. During one class, I had to point out the irony of a bunch of middle-class white college kids earnestly discussing how difficult it must be to be poor, uneducated and black.

We were well-intentioned in our efforts, but in our own way we displayed our own racism. We looked upon another group of human beings as this Other - to be studied, protected, pities - or even considered adorable.

I don't know if it will ever be possible to heal the differences between ethnic groups - particularly black and white. That is a divide with so much violence and hatred behind it - I don't know if it can ever be healed. But I do think we have an obligation to try (on both sides).

And part of "trying" ought to be giving up these symbols of that divide. Whatever aesthetic value these statues have cannot outweigh the ugly connotations that come with them. Put them in a museum, if they have historical significance, but not on the lawn.

 

[Aidensmom]

Okay, I just really don't think people are walking around with features THIS exaggerated. I'm talking lips you could carry your car keys in!

Picasso painted images of people. I don't see any folks with two eyes on one side of their head. But, no one is trying to say Picasso's paintings were realistic, either. These historical cartoonish images of blacks were portrayed as the real thing back then. That's the rub. Exaggerated, IMHO, is an understatement.

I understand this to a degree. If everything is truly features NO ONE has ever had, including whoever the sculpurist may have bases this on, then OK, I could see that there could be some ill intent on the sculpurists part. But if there is anyone (now or at the time the sculpture was created) that faintly resembles these features, then I would see it only as someone making a representation of how one particular person looked.

And just another thought is that because certain races may be more apt to certain features, what would make any of them better than another. I had a caricature of my son done, and by nature of a caricature, his most outstanding features were, as an understatement, exaggerated. I don't at all find it offensive. The Sambo statue may indeed be a caricature of someone, but why is it bad to exaggerate the certain features someone may have had? If I have big ears, I would expect those to be greatly exaggerated by a caricature, if I had big lips, the same thing. . Why are certain features considered less worthy than others?

And, on another note, why is a statue considered to represent all people of a race? Not all artistic representations of other races are complimentary either. I just have a really hard time believing that anyone with any of these statues is trying to state that they are KKK members. I thinks some people just see an artisic quality in them that makes them attractive.

 

[tiggersmom2]

. I just have a really hard time believing that anyone with any of these statues is trying to state that they are KKK members. I thinks some people just see an artisic quality in them that makes them attractive.

Ok....I have to be truthful....my grandmother has many of these statues. She has one sitting down with crossed legs while eating a watermelon , 2 lawnjockeys and one fishing. She is a little old lady and she has these because they are antiques. She is not racist and not in the KKK. This may amaze a few of you but I am from Ga and know of NO ONE in the KKK. I do have a vacation cabin in N. Ga and have seen racism THERE...but not where I live.