How WDW dumped the Middle Class

[DCLMP]

I can't even bother with 'price' threads anymore. Same regurgitated takes all the time. Disney is always doomed.

Who said they are doomed? They have plenty of supporters on this forum.

 

[JulieBeeRN]

Well, it is a Disney message board.

 

[DCLMP]

The middle class may be doomed, but Disney will adjust to the economy like they always do. I don't see them ever needing a bailout.

 

[MattB2G]

Anyone complaining about Disney prices hasn't been to a County Fair lately....... paid $9 for some fried dough last night with only some powdered sugar on it.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Just to compare cash booked room nights for Disney for the first 3Q of fiscal years:

FY 18 - 6.679M
FY 19 - 6.829M
FY 25 - 6.708M

Yes, this is not just WDW data, but Disney doesn’t just care about WDW data when it comes to overall domestic parks performance

 

[Brian Noble]

They aren't though. There is a marked decline in park attendance this year.

So you are saying they are lying in their 10Q? Because they reported attendance as flat vs. the year-prior quarter.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

So you are saying they are lying in their 10Q? Because they reported attendance as flat vs. the year-prior quarter.

Those are your words chief not mine.

I'm going on the numerous articles I've seen discussing lower attendance. I'm not Disney pobsessed enough to pull 10q reports.

 

[DCLMP]

Why is everyone so concerned about Disney's revenue? Disney is dependent on the ups and downs of the economy. It's nothing personal against Disney. I guess it could be used as a barometer for consumer confidence.

 

[clarker99]

People just never learn. The writer of the article doesnt know Disney’s attendance figures. Only Disney knows. They do not share this information. They only tell us the % change once every 3 quarters. 3rd party companies that use wait time data to guesstimate attendance are wrong. Touring plans once guessed attendance was down 15% in a quarter at WDW based on wait times. The attendance actually increased around 5%.

Anecdotal posts about low attendance on a random June Wednesday are not telling you anything about how WDW or DLR are doing.

Far to many folks are concerned about attendance levels. Disney is still controlling AP’s and not just letting everyone in the parks.

Yes, Disney is more expensive than (insert any year bw 1955 and 2024) but If you think only the richest percentile are visiting Disney parks, I have a monorail to sell you.

@RivShore I guess I couldnt stay away.

 

[clarker99]

Just to compare cash booked room nights for Disney for the first 3Q of fiscal years:

FY 18 - 6.679M
FY 19 - 6.829M
FY 25 - 6.708M

Yes, this is not just WDW data, but Disney doesn’t just care about WDW data when it comes to overall domestic parks performance

Add in DVC and more people are staying at a Disney owned property than 2019.

 

[Minnie1222]

I'm going on the numerous articles I've seen discussing lower attendance. I'm not Disney pobsessed enough to pull 10q reports.

It's about getting facts, or at least closer to the truth. Far from an obsession!

If someone tells me it's currently snowing in Orlando, I will first look at the reports of local reputable meteorologists and call my Floridian relatives. I may even get on a flight to see this phenomenon. What I will not do is checking Magic Kingdom's wait times or watching more YouTubes/TikToks.

Same with Disney, if there are numerous reports about low attendance or dead parks, the first place I would look is their official earning reports, not Google.

 

[Minnie1222]

Add in DVC and more people are staying at a Disney owned property than 2019.

Agreed! Especially with the brand-new Poly tower that just opened last year.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's about getting facts, or at least closer to the truth. Far from an obsession!

If someone tells me it's currently snowing in Orlando, I will first look at the reports of local reputable meteorologists and call my Floridian relatives. I may even get on a flight to see this phenomenon. What I will not do is checking Magic Kingdom's wait times or watching more YouTubes/TikToks.

Same with Disney, if there are numerous reports about low attendance or dead parks, the first place I would look is their official earning reports, not Google.

Revenue is very different than park attendance. We've already known since just before the pandemic that they have touted more guest spending but that doesn't actually mean guests are purchasing more stuff or eating in restaurants on a higher average. Most especially over the years since the pandemic. Most of it is related to what Disney can very easily control (which goes back to the article and subsequent posts regarding just who is traveling to Disney) which is guest spending and it's at least easier for them to raise pricing across a slew of stuff to then be at least profitable enough to not feel as much of a sting if attendance isn't as high as they would have wanted.

It was their norm before the pandemic to raise food pricing in their restaurants several times a year. Ticket pricing has gotten quite pricey very fast (meaning in a relatively short timeframe), hard ticket events have increased quite a lot in pricing and there are more dates than before although they have reduced back down from starting Food& Wine in July, merch pricing is higher, and IME Loungefly and the ears have exploded in popularity over the years. Back in 2017 it seemed like both were just starting. That contributes heavily to increased spending. And yeah hotel costs have also increased.

One thing to me though is I think it's worth looking at, something that which Disney isn't going to give you, is dates that are surprisingly slow compared to expectations. They don't get nitty gritty into those and on a more general level looking at patterns. Those are normally found by people tracking crowds. Like how summer has overtime shifted to being less of a frenzied crowd time period but early fall has crept up there. How some holidays aren't nearly as visited as they were in the past, etc.

 

[Brian Noble]

3rd party companies that use wait time data to guesstimate attendance are wrong. Touring plans once guessed attendance was down 15% in a quarter at WDW based on wait times. The attendance actually increased around 5%.

Len (and by extension, the folks at TouringPlans) have given more nuanced thinking about this. The short version: between the DAS clampdown and moving from free to paid virtual queuing for the general public, there are significantly fewer people using the LL returns than there were a few years ago. That in turn allowed disney to change the mix of standby vs. LL return, increasing the ratio of standby guests per LL guest. That reduces wait times even in fhe face of constant attendance.

Thare aren't fewer people in the parks, but there are fewer people who are (virtually) in two different places at once.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Those are your words chief not mine.

I'm going on the numerous articles I've seen discussing lower attendance. I'm not Disney pobsessed enough to pull 10q reports.

Those stories and blogs have for the most part have been wrong by the time data releases.

But since the data releases months after the articles come out it doesn’t matter because the narrative is already set.

Goalpost just moves to attendance is dropping now and hope that eventually they’re right about it.

 

[clarker99]

Len (and by extension, the folks at TouringPlans) have given more nuanced thinking about this. The short version: between the DAS clampdown and moving from free to paid virtual queuing for the general public, there are significantly fewer people using the LL returns than there were a few years ago. That in turn allowed disney to change the mix of standby vs. LL return, increasing the ratio of standby guests per LL guest. That reduces wait times even in fhe face of constant attendance.

Thare aren't fewer people in the parks, but there are fewer people who are (virtually) in two different places at once.

Yes, they have stated DAS changes are making this better BUT they still posted blogs this Summer using wait times as a barometer for attendance and thought that attendance was down at WDW. Then the earnings report comes out and domestic attendance is at 0%. (With more people going to WDW vs. DLR this likely means WDW was slightly up and DLR slightly down).

The biggest problem in using wait times is that the posted wait times are already incorrect. WDW doesnt even use the Flik cards anymore and CM's are basically guessing based on a spot that the line is at. I appreciate and use Touring Plans but we cannot trust articles written about wait times = attendance. The math just doesnt work.

 

[Minnie1222]

Revenue is very different than park attendance. We've already known since just before the pandemic that they have touted more guest spending but that doesn't actually mean guests are purchasing more stuff or eating in restaurants on a higher average. Most especially over the years since the pandemic. Most of it is related to what Disney can very easily control (which goes back to the article and subsequent posts regarding just who is traveling to Disney) which is guest spending and it's at least easier for them to raise pricing across a slew of stuff to then be at least profitable enough to not feel as much of a sting if attendance isn't as high as they would have wanted.

I get it! But when someone mentions low attendance/dead parks in discussions like these, we all know they want to insinuate that revenues & profits also take a nosedive due to Disney "dumping" customers like them.

 

[clarker99]

I get it! But when someone mentions low attendance/dead parks in discussions like these, we all know they want to insinuate that revenues & profits also take a nosedive due to Disney "dumping" customers like them.

The post by @HokieRaven5 about Hotels was about booked cash rooms and had nothing to do with revenue. I feel there is some confusion on that.

 

[bakerworld]

I had my eldest tell me back in the 90's, "It's not that you and Dad can or cannot afford something but how you choose to spend." She was 17 at the time. She still lives by that mantra at 41 with 3 kids. This is my answer to the article mentioned by OP.

In '08 we joined DVC to 'hold the line' on the room costs of WDW. It was probably the best vacation decision we ever made. However, with some flexibility, Dolphin room rates can compete with the Value or off-site hotel rates. As has been mentioned, with a lot of work the middle class can still afford a WDW vacation. Our youngest said her peers felt we were wealthy because we were 'always' going to WDW. We went about every 3 years for 4 or 5 nights in September or February. Only once did we go for an entire week during Easter break. Even today, with DVC, my ideal WDW length is 5 nights.

So basically, I choose to disagree with the article. IMO, people who complain about planning caused us to lose the free FP system and 180 day dining reservations - even the 60 day reservations, for a while.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I get it! But when someone mentions low attendance/dead parks in discussions like these, we all know they want to insinuate that revenues & profits also take a nosedive due to Disney "dumping" customers like them.

Honestly? I don't think that. I've been in a lot of these threads either lurking or actually commenting and this assumption that revenue and profits go down as attendance may or may not go down hasn't been said by those people. At least to my observation the opposite where people interject that profits and revenue are up when someone even mentions lower perceived attendance numbers.

In other words at least to my observation people who talk about lower attendance are cynic enough to know (and comment thusly) that the company itself can make profits or at least enough of it that a lower than wanted attendance doesn't hit them the same due to that and they know how they are doing it (i.e. raising prices or increasing opportunities for the people who are going to spend their money). People who want to always refute the lower attendance comments tend to bring up that revenue and profits are up when those are two different topics.