How WDW dumped the Middle Class

[Minnie1222]

The stock has not regained very much since it's 54% drop.

The stock is based on a multitude of things at the Walt Disney Company. If DIS is parks and parks only, it would have a continuously positive trajectory.

 

[DCLMP]

The stock is based on a multitude of things at the Walt Disney Company. If DIS is parks and parks only, it would have a continuously positive trajectory.

We have no way of knowing what the stock price would be if it was just the parks. Disney would be a much smaller company if that were case and the stock price would reflect that.

 

[DCLMP]

That $200 high you speak of was a covid streaming fever dream, never should have been there but WS was reliving the dot com boom/bust.

Disney's stock price issues have everything to do with cord cutting and nothing to do with park performance which has been a consistent and growing profit center since the re-opening. And on the glass half full take, it's up 50% from it's recent low (it was a great buy in the $70-80's).

Sounds like a great stock to trade. I think I'd be selling and waiting for the next dip.

 

[Minnie1222]

We have no way of knowing what the stock price would be if it was just the parks. Disney would be a much smaller company if that were case and the stock price would reflect that.

Of course we don't know what the actual price would be. But based on the strong performance of the parks, it's likely to have a positive growth on the stock chart.

 

[RivShore]

Sounds like a great stock to trade. I think I'd be selling and waiting for the next dip.

It could be a good trader - there's been a number of times it has dipped to the $70's or $80's the last year or 2 and, every time, it pretty quickly bounced over 100. The shares I hold, I have held forever and the taxman would come after too much of it, so I am a very long term holder.

 

[DCLMP]

It could be a good trader - there's been a number of times it has dipped to the $70's or $80's the last year or 2 and, every time, it pretty quickly bounced over 100. The shares I hold, I have held forever and the taxman would come after too much of it, so I am a very long term holder.

It would be fine to trade in a IRA.

 

[DCLMP]

Of course we don't know what the actual price would be. But based on the strong performance of the parks, it's likely to have a positive growth on the stock chart.

Until the next recession.

 

[wdw_dine_junkie]

I just got back from WDW and our trip cost not counting airfare (2 adults, value resort 8 nights, 7 day park passes with hoppers) plus food (2 sit downs) counter service and whatever snacks we wanted plus souvies (3 polo's for me as I live in polo's and a few smaller items that we picked up) plus LL's for 4 park days and 1 ILL for guardians, plus Mears RT transportation total was just under 4400.

I also booked a "bounceback" offer (2 adults value resort, 8 nights 7 day park passes w/ parkhopper)for next year at less then we paid for the package this year! So count me as happy!

I don't think this is unreasonable. We spent about the same for 9 days to go to Yellowstone/Grand Tetons from FL. And we even used points for the hotel in Jackson and a lot of our meals were from the cooler in the car.

 

[cruising spud]

Getting back to the article-

#1-People who have never been to Disney, and who want to "see everything," don't often realize the planning and coordination that needs to be done in order to have a positive Disney trip. After decades of Disney trips, I still get a new copy of the Unofficial Guide to WDW every five years or so. I scour these boards for the newest information about the parks and hotels. Can people do a more laid-back Disney trip-yes, BUT I wouldn't suggest it for first time/once in a lifetime trip visitors.

#2-If you have never been to Disney, you are might not even understand the concept of magic bands, Lightening Lanes, Early Entry, Extended Evening Hours, and the sheer HUGENESS of the WDW complex.

#3-It is very easy to look at off-site locations and think "this hotel is only five miles from WDW, it should only take us ten minutes to get to the parks," without realizing how traffic congestion can quadruple that time.

 

[GADisneyDad14]

Somewhat relevant to this thread…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1963302518865236040

 

[GADisneyDad14]

Direct Forbes link:

The Rich Helped US Theme Park Industry Eke Out ‘Lackluster’ Summer​

 

[DCLMP]

I don't think this is unreasonable. We spent about the same for 9 days to go to Yellowstone/Grand Tetons from FL. And we even used points for the hotel in Jackson and a lot of our meals were from the cooler in the car.

I think it would be difficult for anyone in the middle of the middle class or lower to spend 4k on any vacation. Everything going up in price has reduced disposable income. The middle and lower class feel it the most. Disney price increases have really out paced wages. My salary has not tripled in the last 10 years. 4k 10 years would have been a week in a deluxe for a family of 4.

 

[Minnie1222]

There is a marked decline in park attendance this year.

The parks have seen their lowest attendance since 2012 in the first quarter of 2025 (Disney's Q2 report).

The official report from the Walt Disney Company disagreed.

And it looks like Forbes also disagreed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You really can't even talk about attendance numbers with Disney, they make zero sense after 2019. The pandemic hit, the parks closed and even when they reopened they throttled attendance. They still throttle attendance for non-dated based and certain other ticket media as well as APs.

It's super easy to say attendance rose year over year when you're comparing time periods that have attendance capped by other means than actual park capacity. The argument around declining attendance is easier to make when you remove restrictions but people still don't come in the same numbers at one would expect with more freedom provided. Both are still skewed but it is easier to authentically see an effect with respects to declining attendance.

When Disney stops ALL park reservations all the time and that becomes a thing of the past, that's when you can discuss attendance numbers again. Unless Disney comes up with a new way of throttling it. Same for Epic Universe, you can't compare attendance until Universal is in the place where there aren't any restrictions (outside of normal AP blockouts by pass purchased) on tickets.

The attendance numbers, MOST especially when talking about choice by consumers, can only really be talked about when consumers have the ultimate choice of going and not by artificial reasons the company comes up with (looking at you Disney for your weird return park reservation rule for a nighttime parade).

 

[OhDannyBoy]

The official report from the Walt Disney Company disagreed.

And it looks like Forbes also disagreed.
View attachment 1000980

Somewhat relevant to this thread…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1963302518865236040

 

[RivShore]

I think it would be difficult for anyone in the middle of the middle class or lower to spend 4k on any vacation. Everything going up in price has reduced disposable income. The middle and lower class feel it the most. Disney price increases have really out paced wages. My salary has not tripled in the last 10 years. 4k 10 years would have been a week in a deluxe for a family of 4.

I think there's a lot of rose colored glasses looking back at WDW cost, years ago. Here's a real data point for you, I went thru some old files recently and one had my DW's cost tracking for a WDW trip from 15 years ago. She tracked every penny spent and we were just under $5k for 6 nights in a moderate with 4 days of park passes and and that was a buy 3 get one day free ticket, this also included airfare. So I really doubt you could get a deluxe for an additional day at $1k less. We always traveled at off peak times and looked for bargains where ever we could. At the time, we were solidly middle class and were able to do this every 2 or 3 years without any debt.

We need our resident stock thread chart guru to create a WDW inflation calculator to improve on our faulty memories... paging @clarker99 ....
--------
Yes, WDW inflation has outstripped wage growth but what popular travel destination hasn't? When the demand slows the price increases will slow, or reverse...that is the way the invisible hand of the free market works.

I had this "what if" in one of the older threads about an article like this - what if WDW cut prices in half, saying that they want everyone to be able to afford a magical vacation - what would happen? Web sites would crash, demand from TA's and resellers would skyrocket. They would then auction off confirmed reservations to the highest bidder, and the general public would end up in the exact same cost position as today, or worse.

While I'm all over the place in this post, here's another...I saw an interview with the McDonalds CEO on CNBC this week and he was asked if the upper end of middle class and above, they used the $100k income number, has begun trading down to McD's from higher cost restaurants and he said no, that income group has not felt that need yet, but below that, he said yes they are buying less and looking for more value. I would think he would have a good view of the macro economy since they are literately everywhere and they don't see any massive shift in the slightly upper middle class spending, probably helps explain why Disney attendance is still holding up.

 

[DCLMP]

I think there's a lot of rose colored glasses looking back at WDW cost, years ago. Here's a real data point for you, I went thru some old files recently and one had my DW's cost tracking for a WDW trip from 15 years ago. She tracked every penny spent and we were just under $5k for 6 nights in a moderate with 4 days of park passes and and that was a buy 3 get one day free ticket, this also included airfare. So I really doubt you could get a deluxe for an additional day at $1k less. We always traveled at off peak times and looked for bargains where ever we could. At the time, we were solidly middle class and were able to do this every 2 or 3 years without any debt.

We need our resident stock thread chart guru to create a WDW inflation calculator to improve on our faulty memories... paging @clarker99 ....
--------
Yes, WDW inflation has outstripped wage growth but what popular travel destination hasn't? When the demand slows the price increases will slow, or reverse...that is the way the invisible hand of the free market works.

I had this "what if" in one of the older threads about an article like this - what if WDW cut prices in half, saying that they want everyone to be able to afford a magical vacation - what would happen? Web sites would crash, demand from TA's and resellers would skyrocket. They would then auction off confirmed reservations to the highest bidder, and the general public would end up in the exact same cost position as today, or worse.

While I'm all over the place in this post, here's another...I saw an interview with the McDonalds CEO on CNBC this week and he was asked if the upper end of middle class and above, they used the $100k income number, has begun trading down to McD's from higher cost restaurants and he said no, that income group has not felt that need yet, but below that, he said yes they are buying less and looking for more value. I would think he would have a good view of the macro economy since they are literately everywhere and they don't see any massive shift in the slightly upper middle class spending, probably helps explain why Disney attendance is still holding up.

I know what I used to pay and it's not rose colored glasses. You tracked what you paid just like I did. Maybe we didn't go the same time of year or use the same discounts. I've already gave some of my own data points. I paid 220 a night for the Polynesian in 2010. My cut off point for a deluxe was 400 a night when it got to that point I stopped going. We did go during Covid and stayed at the YC for around 375 a night. Prices have more than doubled since then.

 

[DCLMP]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...ated-with-the-latest-wdtc-room-rates.3265609/

This is rack rate prices peak season March of 2015. It's in pounds. Conversion rate at that time was about 1to 1.5. According this chart deluxe rates peak season were ranging between 350-600 a night pre discounts. Wilderness lodge and AKl being the cheapest and Grand Floridian the most expensive. Standard discounts were 30-40% back then.

We took a break from WDW after 2016 because prices were starting to creep up and we were tired of it. Went back a couple times during covid because of discounts and rented points in 2023. I don't need saved receipts because I know what I'm willing to pay. I've only stayed at a mod once and never at a value. I'm not willing to pay todays prices.

 

[clarker99]

I think there's a lot of rose colored glasses looking back at WDW cost, years ago. Here's a real data point for you, I went thru some old files recently and one had my DW's cost tracking for a WDW trip from 15 years ago. She tracked every penny spent and we were just under $5k for 6 nights in a moderate with 4 days of park passes and and that was a buy 3 get one day free ticket, this also included airfare. So I really doubt you could get a deluxe for an additional day at $1k less. We always traveled at off peak times and looked for bargains where ever we could. At the time, we were solidly middle class and were able to do this every 2 or 3 years without any debt.

We need our resident stock thread chart guru to create a WDW inflation calculator to improve on our faulty memories... paging @clarker99 ....
--------
Yes, WDW inflation has outstripped wage growth but what popular travel destination hasn't? When the demand slows the price increases will slow, or reverse...that is the way the invisible hand of the free market works.

I had this "what if" in one of the older threads about an article like this - what if WDW cut prices in half, saying that they want everyone to be able to afford a magical vacation - what would happen? Web sites would crash, demand from TA's and resellers would skyrocket. They would then auction off confirmed reservations to the highest bidder, and the general public would end up in the exact same cost position as today, or worse.

While I'm all over the place in this post, here's another...I saw an interview with the McDonalds CEO on CNBC this week and he was asked if the upper end of middle class and above, they used the $100k income number, has begun trading down to McD's from higher cost restaurants and he said no, that income group has not felt that need yet, but below that, he said yes they are buying less and looking for more value. I would think he would have a good view of the macro economy since they are literately everywhere and they don't see any massive shift in the slightly upper middle class spending, probably helps explain why Disney attendance is still holding up.

I can't even bother with 'price' threads anymore. Same regurgitated takes all the time. Disney is always doomed.

 

[RivShore]

I can't even bother with 'price' threads anymore. Same regurgitated takes all the time. Disney is always doomed.

Come on now, there are 3, maybe 4 threads discussing this same article, how dare you not bang your head against the all with me!