How WDW dumped the Middle Class

[OhDannyBoy]

Let's make it simple.

A weekend at Disney is going to cost you at very least 2k. If 2k for a weekend at a theme park seems reasonable, you are likely not who this article is about. If a weekend anywhere for 2k is reasonable, then you are likely not who this article is about. If you can afford 15k on a vacation of any sort, unless it's like a once in a lifetime thing, you are likely (likely, not 100%, but likely) not who this article is about.

For families like mine, the price of Disney is getting harder and harder to both justify and to afford at all. If this isn't you, congratulations, you are LIKELY doing much better than a LOT of the country (countries) right now and likely fall into an upper middle class demographic that this article is not referring to.

Again, I am speaking in generalities and am aware of where I am posting this. This group is REALLY into Disney, which is awesome, but is also the exception and not the rule.

 

[RivShore]

That is still pretty pricey for a value resort and only two people.

Compared to what, though? Any popular US travel destination is going to be similar, especially major cities - 8 nights at a reputable city hotel, all ubering around the city, all food, and 7 days of some kind of entertainment (BW shows, ball games, etc), can you really do that for less than the 4400 they spent at WDW in cities like SF, Boston, NYC? I was shocked last year on a business trip to Boston at the price of food and the most basic lodging (the tiniest hotel room I have ever had the misfortune of seeing). Lodging, food and transportation would have had me over the 4400, if it were 8 days long, with nothing left for entertainment.

 

[DCLMP]

Compared to what, though? Any popular US travel destination is going to be similar, especially major cities - 8 nights at a reputable city hotel, all ubering around the city, all food, and 7 days of some kind of entertainment (BW shows, ball games, etc), can you really do that for less than the 4400 they spent at WDW in cities like SF, Boston, NYC? I was shocked last year on a business trip to Boston at the price of food and the most basic lodging (the tiniest hotel room I have ever had the misfortune of seeing). Lodging, food and transportation would have had me over the 4400, if it were 8 days long, with nothing left for entertainment.

I wouldn't compare a Disney value resort to a reputable hotel. It's bare bones on amenities. Outdoor hallways, no restaurants, and it doesn't even have a gym. Again that has nothing to do with the point of the article...that seems to keep getting lost in this discussion.

 

[comicguy]

If you are taking 15k vacations then your are not in the demographics that has been priced out of WDW. Right?

It seems like everyone on here evaluates the economy based on their own personal circumstances. That is not how economist look at things.

I have to agree.

We are not poor by any stretch but the idea of dropping 15k on ANY vacation is insane to us. Heck dropping 3-4k is crazy. I don't know how anyone in our economic demographic could do it without going into debt.

Just an FYI, we did not "just drop 15k on a vacation", it was actually something we saved for for about 7 years because it is something we really wanted to do.

@DCLMP your right that is not how economists look at the economy but that is how the average person evaluates their place in it

@OhDannyBoy If we don't have money for a vacation, we don't go. We strongly believe no debt for vacations

We are mid class, save for retirement, vacations, and other things like improvements on the house but also want to enjoy our currnt time, retirement is just 5 or so years away for us but you never know what your health will be like in retirement. I would hate to retire and find out that for some reason we could not physically go on that Alaskan cruise and regret not going sooner. We have plans for retirment but we also know you shoukd never count on absolutes.

Travel and WDW are just one of our goals and values. Each person can choose what to do with their money. I just want people to be happy with their choices regardless what they choose

 

[AngusIsMySpiritAnimal]

@RivShore Agree. We live outside NYC so very used to HCoL areas and expectations. Even still, imagine my surprise when our hotel for a summer trip to Harrisburg, PA, near Hershey Park, to attend a show at their farm complex, was OVER $400 a night, no breakfast, at a Best Western Plus! Our suite at the Swolphin will only be a bit beyond that with our AP rate at Xmas. Kids wanted to go to Hershey Park, but with "fast pass" privileges there to make a single day trip efficient enough to be worth it, the cost was approaching Disney money. And so, we saved that money to buy discounted DGCs to spend on our "real" Disney trip. Disney is crazy expensive, no getting around it. But cost creep is impacting vacation destinations large and small all over the country. We hoard points, buy DGCs on discount, and rack up CC cash back until we can offset at least 1/3 of any trip we take to Disney. And then, for the sheer amount of experiences we can have on one trip for a family with a wide variety of thrill tolerances, interests, food preferences, etc, we consider it money well spent. As the kids age, so may our vacations, but right now it's a great escape for us from the grind of a big urban area.

 

[Cfabar1]

I wonder how DVC factors into this... is it affordable for the middle class anymore? - especially if purchased from Disney? Seems like there are many ways to cheaply do disney, but they require $$s (cash up front for GCs, DVC, etc.)

 

[DCLMP]

@DCLMP your right that is not how economists look at the economy but that is how the average person evaluates their place in it

I wouldn't make investment decisions based on that.

Everyone wants to explain how they can afford a Disney trip or justify why they spend the money on a Disney trip yet that wasn't what the article was about. Did anyone actually read it?

 

[DCLMP]

I wonder how DVC factors into this... is it affordable for the middle class anymore? - especially if purchased from Disney? Seems like there are many ways to cheaply do disney, but they require $$s (cash up front for GCs, DVC, etc.)

According to the website contracts start at 23k for 100 points. 100 points won't get you much maybe a week in a studio off season. Then there is the maintenance fees of 1500+ year. I would say no it's not affordable for the middle class unless it's one of the middle class earners that is rich in assets... but then are you really middle class?

I think it's only beneficial if you buy it when you're young, and most young families don't have cash for that. I had a young coworker that bought into it and took out a loan. They were not a high earner. I have no idea how that worked out for them or if they regret it. I personally don't think it's something you should go into debt for.

 

[Willow Ufgood]

I wonder how DVC factors into this... is it affordable for the middle class anymore? - especially if purchased from Disney? Seems like there are many ways to cheaply do disney, but they require $$s (cash up front for GCs, DVC, etc.)

I believe that DVC was once an affordable way for families to vacation at Disney World. It's not just the per point cost that has gone up dramatically. It's also the number of points needed to pay for a room. The early DVC resorts like OKW, BWV, BCV and BRV all have very low points charts. You could get a resort view studio for a week at BWV for under 100 points most of the year. The minimum purchase was 100 points for new members in 1996.

It also cost a lot less to buy into those resorts in their early days. The original price at BWV was $63 per point. Dues were $3.70 per point. So Mom & Dad could have bought enough points for a family of 4 to vacation a week every year until 2042 for the all in price of $6700 (buy in plus dues for that year) the first year and just the cost of dues in subsequent years. In 1996 a new car's average price tag was around $20K, for perspective

For 2025, the dues on 100 points was $905 . It would cost $24,000 to buy those points directly from Disney and they still expire in 2042. Plus you would not have full benefits as a member (that requires a minimum of 150 direct points). For perspective, a new car in 2025 averages $49K.

Comparing U.S. median incomes from the two years - in 1996 it was about $35,500 annually, in 2025 it was $66,600. So while DVC prices have skyrocketed almost 400% during that time span, wages have not even doubled. In addition, the number of points needed for a family of 4 to stay a week in a resort view studio at the newest resorts exceeds 100 points for the majority of the year, while BCV, BWV, BRV and OKW points charts remain fixed.

So not the good deal it once was and probably not a good way to use your Disney money if you're average middle class. But if you're at the upper end of middle class and have the cash handy to splurge and you really love vacationing at Disney World, it might still be worth it to buy one of the newer resorts. But between the purchase price and the ever increasing cost of dues, you would really have to do some creative accounting to make it cheaper to own than it is to just book a room thru Disney whenever there are discounts.

 

[Cfabar1]

Comparing U.S. median incomes from the two years - in 1996 it was about $35,500 annually, in 2025 it was $66,600. So while DVC prices have skyrocketed almost 400% during that time span, wages have not even doubled. In addition, the number of points needed for a family of 4 to stay a week in a resort view studio at the newest resorts exceeds 100 points for the majority of the year, while BCV, BWV, BRV and OKW points charts remain fixed.

So not the good deal it once was and probably not a good way to use your Disney money if you're average middle class. But if you're at the upper end of middle class and have the cash handy to splurge and you really love vacationing at Disney World, it might still be worth it to buy one of the newer resorts. But between the purchase price and the ever increasing cost of dues, you would really have to do some creative accounting to make it cheaper to own than it is to just book a room thru Disney whenever there are discounts.

Reading this has me considering selling my contracts!

 

[MillauFr]

I stand corrected. I was wrong you are a middle class person that spends 15- 20k on WDW trips. Totally normal. The bigger question is why? The last time I stayed Club level it was for 400 a night for three nights and it was barely worth it at that price. I get worth is subjective, but the snacks and drinks aren't worth more that an extra 50 dollars a night. An executive lounge stay at Hilton Hyatt or Marriott is far superior.

I also think class should be defined by more than just your wage. You have to consider a person total net worth.

And isn't that the biggest headscratcher? How Disney convinces people to spend $800 for a hotel that is the same quality as a Spring Hill Suites?

 

[OKW Lover]

Len Testa (from Unofficial Guides) acknowledges that WDW trip in 2025 can only be afforded by top 5-10% not even 20% of Americans

...and yet the parks are as crowded as they have ever been. I think Len miscalculates.

 

[DCLMP]

I believe that DVC was once an affordable way for families to vacation at Disney World. It's not just the per point cost that has gone up dramatically. It's also the number of points needed to pay for a room. The early DVC resorts like OKW, BWV, BCV and BRV all have very low points charts. You could get a resort view studio for a week at BWV for under 100 points most of the year. The minimum purchase was 100 points for new members in 1996.

It also cost a lot less to buy into those resorts in their early days. The original price at BWV was $63 per point. Dues were $3.70 per point. So Mom & Dad could have bought enough points for a family of 4 to vacation a week every year until 2042 for the all in price of $6700 (buy in plus dues for that year) the first year and just the cost of dues in subsequent years. In 1996 a new car's average price tag was around $20K, for perspective

For 2025, the dues on 100 points was $905 . It would cost $24,000 to buy those points directly from Disney and they still expire in 2042. Plus you would not have full benefits as a member (that requires a minimum of 150 direct points). For perspective, a new car in 2025 averages $49K.

Comparing U.S. median incomes from the two years - in 1996 it was about $35,500 annually, in 2025 it was $66,600. So while DVC prices have skyrocketed almost 400% during that time span, wages have not even doubled. In addition, the number of points needed for a family of 4 to stay a week in a resort view studio at the newest resorts exceeds 100 points for the majority of the year, while BCV, BWV, BRV and OKW points charts remain fixed.

So not the good deal it once was and probably not a good way to use your Disney money if you're average middle class. But if you're at the upper end of middle class and have the cash handy to splurge and you really love vacationing at Disney World, it might still be worth it to buy one of the newer resorts. But between the purchase price and the ever increasing cost of dues, you would really have to do some creative accounting to make it cheaper to own than it is to just book a room thru Disney whenever there are discounts.

We thought about it 15 years ago, but this was when they were offering 40% off all the time and you could stay at deluxe resort for under 300 a night. The math didn't work. It would have ended up being a good investment if we had done it.

If you have some extra cash laying around and think you are to be going to WDW for the next 40 years it might still be a good investment. Every investment is a gamble. In 2009 there were a lot of people selling their contracts. If I really wanted to buy I'd wait for the next bad recession and grab a resale.

 

[DCLMP]

...and yet the parks are as crowded as they have ever been. I think Len miscalculates.

20% of the population is a lot of people. The population in Florida as boomed in the last few years. I think that contributes a lot to the increase in attendance.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

...and yet the parks are as crowded as they have ever been. I think Len miscalculates.

They aren't though. There is a marked decline in park attendance this year.

Now that has a lot of contributing factors like a massive decline in international travel to the US, but the numbers are a lot lower this year.

That being said I do agree 20% is probably off.

 

[Willow Ufgood]

...and yet the parks are as crowded as they have ever been. I think Len miscalculates.

I think you're mistaken with that claim but you're entitled to your opinion based on personal experience. My impression is that the resorts are just as crowded thanks to the huge conversion of resort rooms to DVC "must use your points or lose them" villas, and the deep discounts that were offered. However people are spending more days enjoying their resorts and are going into the parks fewer days during their stays. The parks have seen their lowest attendance since 2012 in the first quarter of 2025 (Disney's Q2 report) and summer has had lower than expected crowds according to Len Testa of touringplans.com.

My personal experience last month was that crowds were very light with low wait times for all but the headliner attractions in each park (IOW the paid ILL rides). Good viewing spots for parades and fireworks were easy to find shortly before they began.

 

[Minnie1222]

It really really doesn't matter if park attendance is down. What matters is that revenues and profits continue to grow despite the fluctuations, and Disney is doing a great job at that.

 

[DCLMP]

It really really doesn't matter if park attendance is down. What matters is that revenues and profits continue to grow despite the fluctuations, and Disney is doing a great job at that.

The stock has not regained very much since it's 54% drop.

 

[comicguy]

I think you're mistaken with that claim but you're entitled to your opinion based on personal experience. My impression is that the resorts are just as crowded thanks to the huge conversion of resort rooms to DVC "must use your points or lose them" villas, and the deep discounts that were offered. However people are spending more days enjoying their resorts and are going into the parks fewer days during their stays. The parks have seen their lowest attendance since 2012 in the first quarter of 2025 (Disney's Q2 report) and summer has had lower than expected crowds according to Len Testa of touringplans.com.

My personal experience last month was that crowds were very light with low wait times for all but the headliner attractions in each park (IOW the paid ILL rides). Good viewing spots for parades and fireworks were easy to find shortly before they began.

Being there just 2 weeks ago, I would agree attendance is down from previous Aug trips (although the most noticiable were the decrease in International tourists, IMO) Nothing was greater than 30 minutes (except odd timimig issues, ex. Figment 55 minutes one time when we were walking by, but again was an odd thing (people were looking for something to do undercover away from rain, because an hour later it was 5 minutes) and of course the headliners were longer as usual. We stayed at Pop, the majority of the 60"s building were offline for refurbishment but otherwise the resort seemed to be fairly full. Just my observations for what it is worth

 

[Willow Ufgood]

It really really doesn't matter if park attendance is down. What matters is that revenues and profits continue to grow despite the fluctuations, and Disney is doing a great job at that.

I wouldn't call it great. I look at it as short term gains, mostly in the cruise portion of the "Experiences" segment which includes the parks and resorts, DCL, DVC, and consumer products. Disney used to be the company that focused on building loyalty among their guests. A large number of guests would not only go home from their vacations feeling like it was money well spent, they also told their friends and neighbors what a wonderful experience it was. That not only brought in new guests, it also meant repeat guests, some of whom loved it so much that they purchased DVC and took DCL cruises.

A WSJ article from earlier this year revealed that an unexpected number of guests surveyed by Disney in 2024 did not intend to visit WDW again. These were people who were surveyed shortly after the completion of their trips. The company suits need to ask themselves why this is and what can be done about it. Because it's not just losing that one guest today. It's losing the next generation that doesn't develop an emotional attachment to WDW as a vacation destination. And when you're in the business of selling magic, pixie dust and overall good feelings, that's a problem.