How to use ND filters for night shots

[PoohLover78]

I've never used ND filters before but reading up on how to shot fireworks at WDW and longtime night exposures, it's always been recommended to use ND filters. I wanted to try them out before leaving for WDW next week but the local fireworks have been canceled due to bad weather. Boo hoo.

Now my main problem is - how would I find the right shutter speed for shooting with the filters? I have two Hoya filters, one 2-stop and one 3-stop. I was thinking about setting up the camera before Wishes, take a regular shot of the castle to see what shutter speed I need without blowing out the colors and then screw on the filter and up 2 or 3 stops. I will set the camera to f8 (my lens has no infinity setting), lock focus on the castle, switch to manual focus so my camera won't attempt to auto focus and then do the test shot starting with a 2 sec exposure without a filter. Then change shutter speed to see how high I can go without a filter. From there then either add 2 stops or 3 stops, depending on the max exposure I want. Is my thinking correct or am I missing something?

 

[PythonFan888]

Your shutter speed for fireworks really depends on the timing of the bursts. If you want to include just a few bursts in the frame you can usually go from about 5 to 10 seconds. My fireworks shots are usually 12 - 30 seconds as I like to include more bursts.

I use a 3-stop ND filter for fireworks and I can usually avoid blown out highlights if I stay below 30 seconds at around f/8 to f/11.

I suggest watching youtube videos of Wishes and familiarizing yourself with the soundtrack and the sequence of bursts. As I said at another thread, the bursts are precisely timed according the soundtrack so you can anticipate them.

 

[photo_chick]

OP it sounds like you're thinking is correct. Just add the number of stops that your filter is and remember that each whole stop doubles your time. Use that as a ballpark guide then check your exposure in camera and adjust as necessary. If you haven't yet I'd check out what the histograms of well exposed fireworks shots look like so you know what to look for when you're checking exposure on your camera on site.

 

[PoohLover78]

My fireworks shots are usually 12 - 30 seconds as I like to include more bursts.

I use a 3-stop ND filter for fireworks and I can usually avoid blown out highlights if I stay below 30 seconds at around f/8 to f/11..

12 to 30 secs exposure sounds like a great difference to me. Do you use the 3 stop filter for the 12 secs as well? I just find it hard to understand how a 12 secs exposure can be as well lit than a 30 sec exposure with the same settings. To me that kinda sounds like one end would underexpose the surroundings or the other end would overexpose them? Like I said, I've never shot with those filters before so I'm not quite sure about how much leeway I will have in exposure time. 12 to 30 is more than double the exposure time.

I've also familiarized myself with the Wishes timing as you suggested in other post. Made notes of music cues and time stamps to hopefully time my shots right. I've also dusted off the old cable remote so I have a better way of triggering the shutter than with the IR remote. If it doesn't matter if I go 12 or 30 seconds with the filter, I guess I don't have to worry about using the bulb setting and adjusting my notes accordingly. Otherwise I would rather just use one shutter speed for the whole shot.

 

[PythonFan888]

12 to 30 secs exposure sounds like a great difference to me. Do you use the 3 stop filter for the 12 secs as well? I just find it hard to understand how a 12 secs exposure can be as well lit than a 30 sec exposure with the same settings. To me that kinda sounds like one end would underexpose the surroundings or the other end would overexpose them? Like I said, I've never shot with those filters before so I'm not quite sure about how much leeway I will have in exposure time. 12 to 30 is more than double the exposure time.

This is a 13-second exposure at f/11:


Fireworks Friday - Shades of Red by Allen Castillo, on Flickr

This is a 30-second exposure at f/11


Fireworks Friday - The Nod to "Fantasia" by Allen Castillo, on Flickr

These were from my very first attempts at fireworks shots. You can verify the settings by clicking on the links at choosing View EXIF Info.

I shoot RAW so a little post processing can remedy slightly underexposed foreground elements. It's more difficult to fix blown out highlights.

also familiarized myself with the Wishes timing as you suggested in other post. Made notes of music cues and time stamps to hopefully time my shots right. I've also dusted off the old cable remote so I have a better way of triggering the shutter than with the IR remote. If it doesn't matter if I go 12 or 30 seconds with the filter, I guess I don't have to worry about using the bulb setting and adjusting my notes accordingly. Otherwise I would rather just use one shutter speed for the whole shot.

I wouldn't use just one shutter speed for fireworks. Wishes and Illuminations are very dynamic shows with constantly changing light/color conditions. It takes practice and preparation to know when to open and close the shutter.

Check out the Disney Fireworks Group on flickr for other examples:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/884826@N23/pool/

 

[PoohLover78]

I think I get it now I was a bit worried that with one setup, I wouldn't have much of an exposure range but looking at your example, I see that I can go from 12 to about 30 without having to worry much. Fixed exposure sure would have been a problem as some sequences require a shorter exposure than others. Especially the finale. I think even 12 seconds is kind of pushing it?

I'm already dreaming Wishes I've watched it so often trying to get the timing done. It also doesn't help that I tear up for no apparent reason every time they ask you to make a wish....

 

[WDWFigment]

You've got the exact right idea for using the ND filter for fireworks.

As for other nighttime long exposures, I can't say that I can think of any scenarios where I'd recommend an ND filter.

 

[toomanycars]

You've got the exact right idea for using the ND filter for fireworks.

As for other nighttime long exposures, I can't say that I can think of any scenarios where I'd recommend an ND filter.

I use ND Filters to remove people from photos.

 

[PoohLover78]

I use ND Filters to remove people from photos.

Please please please enlighten me how you do that during night shots! More to the point, what shutter speed have you been using and what filter? I know my 3-stop filter sure won't be enough for doing that during daylight but during night time, it would suffice, right?

 

[toomanycars]

Please please please enlighten me how you do that during night shots! More to the point, what shutter speed have you been using and what filter? I know my 3-stop filter sure won't be enough for doing that during daylight but during night time, it would suffice, right?

I use neutral density filters to increase my exposure time where people moving in the scene will not register. I set my neutral density filter pack so that allows me to have one to two minute exposures against the base illumination level. This also allows me to keep a more reasonable aperture to maintain sharpness. Here is a great article on the subject. http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2012/03/09/long-exposure-how-an-nd-filter-clears-crowds/

 

[Experiment_626]

Please please please enlighten me how you do that during night shots! More to the point, what shutter speed have you been using and what filter? I know my 3-stop filter sure won't be enough for doing that during daylight but during night time, it would suffice, right?

The key for using an ND to "remove" people from photos is that they must keep moving through the frame (or if they stop, they start moving again soon). If they stand or sit in one place for most or all of the exposure, they'll still be visible. In a crowded setting — say, on Main Street after Wishes as a river of people are steadily moving down the street — you'll still have visible artifacts of the people passing through the shot. But scattered individuals moving steadily through the shot can be "erased" (in reality, they're never really captured by the sensor in the first place) using an ND filter. You may still have a few hints of their passage if they walk close enough and slowly enough by a bright light source that shines on them.

Scott

 

[2Tiggies]

Please please please enlighten me how you do that during night shots! More to the point, what shutter speed have you been using and what filter? I know my 3-stop filter sure won't be enough for doing that during daylight but during night time, it would suffice, right?

My 3 stop filter has successfully 'removed people' from shots at night. It depends how much light there is and how quickly the people are moving so it's definitely a tripod or some other stable, don't-touch-the-camera type of shutter speed. Between 30 and 60 seconds for me has been fine, although doing a vanishing act with the people wasn't my primary objective with the filter at the time. I was just too lazy to take it off after the fireworks and carried it on the tripod to where I wanted to be

 

[toomanycars]

While we're on the subject of removing people from photographs. Another technique that I sometimes use is to take 10 exposures 10 seconds apart stack them in Photoshop. And either have Photoshop compare the layers or/and to brush out the individual components of the layers that I do not want represented in the final photograph.

 

[WDWFigment]

I can't say I've ever encountered a situation at night where using v. not using a neutral density filter will make the difference between people showing up and not showing up. 30 second exposures are pretty easy to achieve without an ND filter (and with a reasonable aperture).

If someone appears in 30 second exposure, chances are they will appear in a 2 minute exposure. The only difference is that the latter shot cost an extra 90 seconds to capture.

During the day is a totally different story.

 

[photo_chick]

I use ND Filters to remove people from photos.

I do this as well. It can be a lot of fun to play with and can help eliminate those really slow moving people who might not disappear with a shorter exposure.

 

[PoohLover78]

I guess I have lots of experimenting to do now at WDW! I was really thinking I'd need to camp out at MK till 1am to take pics without people in them. Not that I would mind doing that but having the option to do it *earlier* than that is probably gonna greatly boost my muse!

3 days and counting!

 

[PythonFan888]

Brett Kiger just posted a shot on flickr where he used a 10-stop ND filter to capture 736 seconds of Wishes! The result is amazing:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brettkiger/10461156193/

 

[toomanycars]

Brett Kiger just posted a shot on flickr where he used a 10-stop ND filter to capture 736 seconds of Wishes! The result is amazing:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brettkiger/10461156193/

Thanks for the share!

 

[PoohLover78]

Wow. Mindblowing!

 

[sjcampbl]

Very cool shot. I'll have to give that a try.