How to prove who was driving in a fatal car accident?

[aurora907]

My friend was recently killed in a one vehicle car accident and I believe the driver is now claiming that my dead friend was the one driving. The driver was speeding 3 times the speed limit and hit ice on the road, flipped 5 times, knocked down 2 light poles, and ejected my friend and their girlfriend from the front seats of the truck. The girlfriend is alive with her jaw wired shut, my friend is dead, my other friend in the back seat with a seat belt on is bruised up but alive, and the driver of the vehicle (who also owns the vehicle) walked away without a scratch. Now he is telling police that my dead friend was the one driving because he isn’t here to defend himself.
My reason for posting is because I want to know how my local police department (who has a history of screwing up serious investigations and failing to convict those who are truly criminally responsible) can prove who was driving and who was a passenger in this crash. The two other passengers may not be reliable witnesses as they are very close friends with the driver and also very young and impressionable adults. All four people in the car were adults, it’s unclear if alcohol or drugs were involved but everyone involved haa history of using drugs and alcohol. However there was clearly reckless intentional speeding that occurred leading up to the accident. No other vehicles were involved.

Does anyone have insight on how these investigations play out?

Does anyone know what types of DNA evidence will (hopefully) be collected?

Can finger prints prove who was driving?

Possible blood evidence where the passengers were ejected?

Do the winter road conditions make evidence more difficult to collect? (Ice or snow with blood on it melting away, lack of skid marks on the road due to being completely covered in ice)

Do injuries alone point to someone at fault because usually the drivers seat is the safest place to be during an accident?

If the driver claims to have been in the passenger seat with a seat belt on, would bruising on his chest prove that he is lying?

Do seat belts always leave bruises in severe accidents?

What will happen if my friend from the back seat lies to police about who is driving?

Any insight would be helpful, thank you.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Welcome to the dis, 907.

 

[anniemae]

I don't know the answers but I am very very sorry to hear of this tragic accident. I am by NO means and expert, but I believe they would be able to tell where everyone was based on injuries, airbag deployment etc.

As to lying to the police, never a good idea. You can go to jail for falsifying a police report. I would advise your friends to tell the truth.

 

[Dan Murphy]

My friend was recently killed in a one vehicle car accident and I believe the driver is now claiming that my dead friend was the one driving. The driver was speeding 3 times the speed limit and hit ice on the road, flipped 5 times, knocked down 2 light poles, and ejected my friend and their girlfriend from the front seats of the truck. The girlfriend is alive with her jaw wired shut, my friend is dead, my other friend in the back seat with a seat belt on is bruised up but alive, and the driver of the vehicle (who also owns the vehicle) walked away without a scratch. Now he is telling police that my dead friend was the one driving because he isn’t here to defend himself.
My reason for posting is because I want to know how my local police department (who has a history of screwing up serious investigations and failing to convict those who are truly criminally responsible) can prove who was driving and who was a passenger in this crash. The two other passengers may not be reliable witnesses as they are very close friends with the driver and also very young and impressionable adults. All four people in the car were adults, it’s unclear if alcohol or drugs were involved but everyone involved haa history of using drugs and alcohol. However there was clearly reckless intentional speeding that occurred leading up to the accident. No other vehicles were involved.

Does anyone have insight on how these investigations play out?

Does anyone know what types of DNA evidence will (hopefully) be collected?

Can finger prints prove who was driving?

Possible blood evidence where the passengers were ejected?

Do the winter road conditions make evidence more difficult to collect? (Ice or snow with blood on it melting away, lack of skid marks on the road due to being completely covered in ice)

Do injuries alone point to someone at fault because usually the drivers seat is the safest place to be during an accident?

If the driver claims to have been in the passenger seat with a seat belt on, would bruising on his chest prove that he is lying?

Do seat belts always leave bruises in severe accidents?

What will happen if my friend from the back seat lies to police about who is driving?

Any insight would be helpful, thank you.

If ejected friend never held the steering wheel, sure.

Sure

It is?

Sure

I would say so, yes.

 

[Dznypal]

the only thing I know is that having a seatbelt on does/can cause bruising

it happened to my friend she had a seatbelt on--she was in the middle waiting to make a left turn when a car went speeding through the light--

and she was quite bruised she a strap mark across the chest ( she had pic so she could cover herself up)and I think bruises around her hip area

as far as your case with who was driving that I dont know anything about

sorry to hear what your going through thoughts and prayers

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm very sorry to hear about your friends

I wouldn't write off the other 2 witnesses here or make a presumption that their close relationship with the driver means they won't be honest about who is driving. Is it a possibility? Yes unfortunately, but their relationship itself doesn't mean they are unreliable.

I do have a question and this isn't because I'm questioning what happened but how do you personally know who was driving the car? If your friend sadly passed away and the other 2 witnesses you question their honesty how do you know who was driving?

I do agree injuries can be an indication although it does happen that occupants walk away with nary a scratch when the driver is the one seriously injured or dies. Much of that has to do with the impacts on the car and where they occurred.

As far as the crash ejecting your friend it is possible that that a force of an accident does this where a seatbelt can't withstand it but ejection is much higher when you are not wearing your seatbelt and it doesn't necessarily take a really bad accident to do so.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

the only thing I know is that having a seatbelt on does/can cause bruising

Yeah it can along with bruised or cracked ribs. Sometimes it doesn't cause any more than a slight reddening on the skin or a rash. It's hard to say always though like the OP is asking but probably more often than not you're going to see decent amount of physical indication someone was wearing a safety restraint in serious enough accidents. Also for the OP there can be people improperly wearing a safety restraint such as people only wearing it on their lap but not across their chest. If that happens sometimes the lap restraint impact can be hidden by other injuries sustained.

 

[aurora907]

I'm very sorry to hear about your friends

I wouldn't write off the other 2 witnesses here or make a presumption that their close relationship with the driver means they won't be honest about who is driving. Is it a possibility? Yes unfortunately, but their relationship itself doesn't mean they are unreliable.

I do have a question and this isn't because I'm questioning what happened but how do you personally know who was driving the car? If your friend sadly passed away and the other 2 witnesses you question their honesty how do you know who was driving?

I do agree injuries can be an indication although it does happen that occupants walk away with nary a scratch when the driver is the one seriously injured or dies. Much of that has to do with the impacts on the car and where they occurred.

As far as the crash ejecting your friend it is possible that that a force of an accident does this where a seatbelt can't withstand it but ejection is much higher when you are not wearing your seatbelt and it doesn't necessarily take a really bad accident to do so.

 

[aurora907]

I know who was driving because within hours of the accident, my friend from the back seat had told his family who was driving, and one of his family members had told me. The original information he shared with his family does not match what the driver told police.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm a retired police officer, so I'll try to answer those questions I can answer.

Does anyone have insight on how these investigations play out?

Traffic homicide cases are driven almost exclusively by physical evidence collected at the scene -- not so much by witness testimony, which is notoriously inaccurate.

Does anyone know what types of DNA evidence will (hopefully) be collected?

That depends on the sophistication of the police department and the quality of the crime lab that analyzes the evidence. I don't know that DNA could eliminate the possibility of your deceased friend being the driver, but it could point that way.

For example, if the proper procedures were followed, DNA could be found on the steering wheel, gear shift, door handles, etc. If your friend's DNA was found in the truck, but not on items the driver would have to have touched, that could be one bit of evidence disputing the claim that your friend was driving.

Can finger prints prove who was driving?

No, and neither can DNA. Either or both can prove that someone touched the site, but not what they were doing when they touched it.

Possible blood evidence where the passengers were ejected?

Don't focus on particular types of evidence. Blood, skin, body fluids, DNA, clothing, hair, and all sorts of other things could indicate where someone left the vehicle. And that could possibly preclude that person being the driver.

Do the winter road conditions make evidence more difficult to collect? (Ice or snow with blood on it melting away, lack of skid marks on the road due to being completely covered in ice)

We don't have that problem much here in Miami, but I would assume weather conditions could make some things more difficult. OTOH, you said they were traveling 3X the speed limit. That determination came from somewhere, and investigators do factor in road conditions in figuring out how fast a vehicle was traveling.

Do injuries alone point to someone at fault because usually the drivers seat is the safest place to be during an accident?

No. And also, that's not true.

If the driver claims to have been in the passenger seat with a seat belt on, would bruising on his chest prove that he is lying?

No, but other evidence might.

Do seat belts always leave bruises in severe accidents?

Nothing "always" or "never" happens.

What will happen if my friend from the back seat lies to police about who is driving?

They would be exposing themselves to a great deal of bigtime trouble. And there is also a great deal more involved than simply lying to the police. It's not going to be a "one and done" short interview, and it's also not going to be only the police -- it's going to be sworn testimony in court, in a case where someone died. Not a good place to tell lies.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Welcome to the dis, 907.

You always notice

 

[JimMIA]

One comment about the weather. If anyone were heavily bundled up, especially if they were wearing gloves, that might greatly reduce the quantity and quality of available evidence.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I know who was driving because within hours of the accident, my friend had told his family who was driving, and one of his family members had told me. The original information he shared with his family does not match what the driver told police.

Thanks for answering.

1) you've heard it 3rd hand from a passenger's family so keep that in mind. It's not to say anything against you just that you're hearing hearsay at this point even if you have every reason to believe the family member of your friend

2) So now that you have a family member of one of the passengers involved who has knowledge that will add 1 more person to a list of people who ideally will disclose what they've heard as the police investigates. There can be stiff penalties for lying to the police or failing to give information to them although from what I understand you're concerned about the police department. Other things may come into play like traffic cameras and investigations include a lot than just talking to witnesses/people involved.

I don't know what an end result would be but in your case I wouldn't get too far ahead on this situation and let the investigation unfold, at the moment. Understandably how you may be concerned but allow at least a bit more. What the driver may be telling the police now may be just simply that's what he's saying not what the investigation shows.

My condolences on your loss

 

[Stratman50th]

Nothing "always" or "never" happens.

This........

 

[aurora907]

I have a lot of doubt that any of them would be wearing gloves or big coats. They are all weather-resistant Alaska kids and I don’t think they would wear gloves or coats unless going to do snow sports or snow activities.

 

[tvguy]

I'm a retired police officer, so I'll try to answer those questions I can answer.
Traffic homicide cases are driven almost exclusively by physical evidence collected at the scene -- not so much by witness testimony, which is notoriously inaccurate.That depends on the sophistication of the police department and the quality of the crime lab that analyzes the evidence. I don't know that DNA could eliminate the possibility of your deceased friend being the driver, but it could point that way.

For example, if the proper procedures were followed, DNA could be found on the steering wheel, gear shift, door handles, etc. If your friend's DNA was found in the truck, but not on items the driver would have to have touched, that could be one bit of evidence disputing the claim that your friend was driving. No, and neither can DNA. Either or both can prove that someone touched the site, but not what they were doing when they touched it.Don't focus on particular types of evidence. Blood, skin, body fluids, DNA, clothing, hair, and all sorts of other things could indicate where someone left the vehicle. And that could possibly preclude that person being the driver.We don't have that problem much here in Miami, but I would assume weather conditions could make some things more difficult. OTOH, you said they were traveling 3X the speed limit. That determination came from somewhere, and investigators do factor in road conditions in figuring out how fast a vehicle was traveling.No. And also, that's not true.No, but other evidence might.Nothing "always" or "never" happens.They would be exposing themselves to a great deal of bigtime trouble. And there is also a great deal more involved than simply lying to the police. It's not going to be a "one and done" short interview, and it's also not going to be only the police -- it's going to be sworn testimony in court, in a case where someone died. Not a good place to tell lies.

In many parts of U.S. the coroner will look for evidence during the autopsy also.

 

[Stratman50th]

I will offer the one thing I always looked for. It only applies if the driver wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Always looked for a break in the windshield, top left corner with hair hanging off of it.
I don't know how they were able to estimate speed if the road was covered with snow and ice.

 

[JimMIA]

In many parts of U.S. the coroner will look for evidence during the autopsy also.

Of course, but that evidence won't usually tell whether or not the deceased was driving the vehicle. It might if the nature and directionality of trauma to the chest were typical of steering wheel injuries, or if the location and nature of injuries were inconsistent with being behind the wheel.

 

[aurora907]

I will offer the one thing I always looked for. It only applies if the driver wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Always looked for a break in the windshield, top left corner with hair hanging off of it.
I don't know how they were able to estimate speed if the road was covered with snow and ice.

The speed estimate is not from police, it is hearsay from a family member of one of the passengers.

 

[neverlandsky]

So sorry for your loss. As a tiny example of a timeline, we had a high profile fatal accident that was on 11/2/2021. The victim's cause of death was just released only 9 days ago by the Coroner. Insurance will also conducting their own independent investigation especially if occupants have injuries to claim where it makes sense to go after the insurance to pay for their medical bills. As far as speed goes, if the vehicle had an EDR that will answer the speed question. If the driver is already lying, I surely hope all the other occupants have lawyered up.