How to "fix" FP+

[Msmithmd]

So I've read the threads extolling and berating the testing of FP+ for months as many of you have done.

After using the system, we liked some aspects and disliked others. It seems the truth of the system lies somewhere between the people who love it and insist that Disney can do no wrong; and the people who are certain that FP+ was created by a maniacal despot who hates puppies. Both groups are well represented on Disboards.

Anyway, I've thought some about what people really like and hate- and if Disney is really still "testing" rather than just tweaking, what could be done to make the system better and make their loyal customers more happy. Here are my thoughts, hopefully to open a discussion about ideas that would improve the system, rather than just another thread to bash it entirely:

The essence of why many seem to dislike FP+ is that it locks you to FP in a single park, and the tier thing really makes people upset. And I have to agree, it may end up a significant downgrade from the old system if it stands "as is" and they remove FP-.

Why some like it is that they can sleep in late and still have passes to some of their favorite activities. The one thing that is certain is that Disney isn't going to drop a system that they've spent a billion dollars developing.

So what about a FP system that hybridizes the old and the new? Consider this:

What if they change FP+ to allow you to make ONE selection per day before you arrive- and then (two hours after the park opens if you've selected a late-day time, or immediately when your use window is available), you are able to make ONE more selection, either in that park or a different one? And so on and so forth all day? Allowing as many FP+ as you are able to schedule as you use, but not bumping people who reserved ahead for later start times?

The idea would be to make the FP+ system more mirror the old system, but the advantage would be the technology driven elimination of the fastpass runner. Each new pass you select would be done on your device or station when it came available to book. And you could select one attraction at a park you were going to hop toward, if your current window had been used. This would allow more than three per day, would allow more than one park, while still being equitable to all users and not forcing people to book FP on rides that don't need it.

So essentially my suggestion is to make it more like the old FP-, but use the new technology to avoid backtracking across the park all day to physically pull the old passes. You would still have the capacity limits that existed before, but the daily capacity is what it is- unless Disney invests in changing this side of the equation.

Whatcha think? Any other constructive ideas?

 

[Laketravis]

In four years I honestly never heard or read any substantial complaints about the old FP system - other than adhering to the return window.

So what would be wrong with preserving the old algorithms that made FP- work, just move it from paper to cloud?

In other words, when I was physically in the park I could pull as many FP's as I wanted for the same attraction as long as they lasted and I was in synch with the time metering for that attraction.

Or I could get FP's for a popular attraction with return times farther out, and then collect more FP's for other attractions after the hour(?) window had passed.

My point is, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the distribution logic of the old system. If you only wanted one FP in one park that day, fine - it worked for you. If you wanted 10 FP's in two different parks that day, it worked for you as well if that was your motivation and you knew how to do that.

FP- was only broken if you are Disney trying to figure out how to spread crowds around without building more capacity.

 

[Good Morning Dewdrop]

agree with both of you basically

OP we don't have a smartphone (I know shocking right?) so I wouldn't want to try to schedule something while competing with thousands of other folks at kiosks.

I think they should switch the regular FP machines over to smart machines - show it your RFID media (MB or card) - and the FP time pops up on a screen - it then asks you " would you like this time or a later time" (not offering an earlier option. So you could schedule a later time if the current FP return time conflicted with an ADR or another plan.

I do like OPs idea of having one prescheduled FP and then being able to "collect" (as in LakeTravis) more FP as the day goes on.

 

[morethananyonex]

In four years I honestly never heard or read any substantial complaints about the old FP system - other than adhering to the return window.

So what would be wrong with preserving the old algorithms that made FP- work, just move it from paper to cloud?

In other words, when I was physically in the park I could pull as many FP's as I wanted for the same attraction as long as they lasted and I was in synch with the time metering for that attraction.

Or I could get FP's for a popular attraction with return times farther out, and then collect more FP's for other attractions after the hour(?) window had passed.

My point is, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the distribution logic of the old system. If you only wanted one FP in one park that day, fine - it worked for you. If you wanted 10 FP's in two different parks that day, it worked for you as well if that was your motivation and you knew how to do that.

FP- was only broken if you are Disney trying to figure out how to spread crowds around without building more capacity.

Exactly. Especially the bolded.

But if I had to choose the best way to go through with FP+, I would do away with the 60 day window. FP+ can be booked the night before starting at a certain time. You are allowed ONE per day per person. The rest of the FP system would be like described in the quoted post, everything is on MB and can be done on MDE and kiosks. You can select from any available time as long as enough time has gone by to get another pass. It helps with those hard to get headliners, but still provides lots of flexibility like FP-.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help Disney keep people tied to their parks versus competitors, so it won't happen. Maybe one day Disney will once again realize the best way to keep people coming back and staying longer is new and creative experiences in the parks, not new and (not so) creative ways to experience the parks.

 

[melissafox18]

I'm sure this has been talked to death but I agree with PP on this topic. From the info I've read it appears the test at all resorts thru March 2014 but no official word on what the formal rollout/release is truly going to be.

For me, it depends on the park and how I would use eash FP system. We havr been to Disney many times and don't need to do everything at every park. I find it useful to use a FP+ for DHS and Epcot. For MK, not so much. There are so many things to do with easy to use legacy FPs. I just with the system would allow for legacy FP in one park and FP+ in another. I'd RD at one park and head for a quick TSM ride each afternoon

 

[larryz]

Maybe one day Disney will once again realize the best way to keep people coming back and staying longer is new and creative experiences in the parks, not new and (not so) creative ways to experience the parks.

They aren't seeing any financial evidence to support your contention right now...

People keep coming, and they're willing to pay higher admission prices.

I'm sure this has been talked to death but I agree with PP on this topic. From the info I've read it appears the test at all resorts thru March 2014 but no official word on what the formal rollout/release is truly going to be.

Note Rasulo's comment in the thread about the investor press conference -- MBs / FP+ IS rolled out to the entire on-property population. Now all that's left is to declare the end of the "test."

 

[morethananyonex]

They aren't seeing any financial evidence to support your contention right now...

People keep coming, and they're willing to pay higher admission prices.

I'm talking about their stated purpose behind FP+. I'm not implying Disney is seeing an attendance problem currently. Isn't the best way to attract people and keep them to build things people want to see, not schedule them 60 days out so they hopefully don't notice what the other guys down the road are doing?

 

[Robo]

While I like the IDEA of scheduling the FP system from a portable/electronic device, it would wreak havoc to open the entirely of MK, Epcot, DHS, and DAK FP+ reservations at, say, 8PM the night before.
CRASH!
(Imagine the daily laments on the boards of, "We tried to get a FP+ for TSM but all we got was a frowny Donald head for an hour... then they were all gone!")

One of the ways the old FP system worked was to allow guests to SEE if they NEEDED a FP to ride the attraction.

Walk to the ride, take a look at the line, either enter right then, or take a FP.

It worked and worked very well.

Did I LIKE having to walk all the way to Exp. Everest to get a FP and then to Safari to ride standby, well, no, but it worked with crowd control/FP control.

If you think FP+ will eliminate the Rope Drop Rush, just look at how the "new strategy" has shaken out...Now, making FP+reservations for later in the day, and still arriving for the Rope Drop Rush to ride the biggies with shorter lines.

Again, I like the idea of electronic booking at a late date, but I don't think Disney has the electronic capacity to handle it.

 

[jade1]

What if they change FP+ to allow you to make ONE selection per day before you arrive-

Already better than FP-

 

[Pooksie]

So I've read the threads extolling and berating the testing of FP+ for months as many of you have done.

After using the system, we liked some aspects and disliked others. It seems the truth of the system lies somewhere between the people who love it and insist that Disney can do no wrong; and the people who are certain that FP+ was created by a maniacal despot who hates puppies. Both groups are well represented on Disboards.

Anyway, I've thought some about what people really like and hate- and if Disney is really still "testing" rather than just tweaking, what could be done to make the system better and make their loyal customers more happy. Here are my thoughts, hopefully to open a discussion about ideas that would improve the system, rather than just another thread to bash it entirely:

The essence of why many seem to dislike FP+ is that it locks you to FP in a single park, and the tier thing really makes people upset. And I have to agree, it may end up a significant downgrade from the old system if it stands "as is" and they remove FP-.

Why some like it is that they can sleep in late and still have passes to some of their favorite activities. The one thing that is certain is that Disney isn't going to drop a system that they've spent a billion dollars developing.

So what about a FP system that hybridizes the old and the new? Consider this:

What if they change FP+ to allow you to make ONE selection per day before you arrive- and then (two hours after the park opens if you've selected a late-day time, or immediately when your use window is available), you are able to make ONE more selection, either in that park or a different one? And so on and so forth all day? Allowing as many FP+ as you are able to schedule as you use, but not bumping people who reserved ahead for later start times?

The idea would be to make the FP+ system more mirror the old system, but the advantage would be the technology driven elimination of the fastpass runner. Each new pass you select would be done on your device or station when it came available to book. And you could select one attraction at a park you were going to hop toward, if your current window had been used. This would allow more than three per day, would allow more than one park, while still being equitable to all users and not forcing people to book FP on rides that don't need it.

So essentially my suggestion is to make it more like the old FP-, but use the new technology to avoid backtracking across the park all day to physically pull the old passes. You would still have the capacity limits that existed before, but the daily capacity is what it is- unless Disney invests in changing this side of the equation.

Whatcha think? Any other constructive ideas?

Ideas, sure.

Disney could start selling additional FP+ reservations above the three per day allowed for an additional fee based on availability. That way the folks who are happy with three per day are set, and folks who want more than three per day can purchase more based on tier and availability.

Upsell, monetize, whatever you want to call it, I believe it is just around the corner. The tiered rides, the limit of three per day, and now the magic band box with the picture of the old "E ticket" on it all set the mindset that Disney is replacing the buffet style FP- system with the new a la carte FP+ system. You want more than three per day, no problemo, you can have more that three per day, availability allowing, just pony up more cash.

 

[Robo]

Disney could start selling additional FP+ reservations above the three per day allowed for an additional fee based on availability.

For that to actually work, they'd need to have enough to sell.
Nobody with any Disney-smarts would pay a buck for a FP to ride Figment, so...
they'd need to have a BUNCH of TSM/Soarin'/Test Track/Exp.Everest/Safari/Space Mtn./Peter Pan FP+ to sell.
And, we're down the rabbit hole again.

 

[seashoreCM]

Allow full access to same day Fastpass at any park six* hours after entering any park or after using up all of your Fastpass Plus reservations, whichever comes first.

* Four hours if you had only made two advance FP+ bookings, two hours if you had made only one FP+ booking, or no delay if you had not made any FP+ bookings. A myriad of refinements could be made to the exact formula for example the worst case delay could be 3 times 45 minutes instead of 3 times 2 hours on less busy park days.

 

[rebbyparker]

For that to actually work, they'd need to have enough to sell.
Nobody with any Disney-smarts would pay a buck for a FP to ride Figment, so...
they'd need to have a BUNCH of TSM/Soarin'/Test Track/Exp.Everest/Safari/Space Mtn./Peter Pan FP+ to sell.
And, we're down the rabbit hole again.

This. I've seen numerous posts about Disney possibly charging for FP+ and I don't get it at all. FP's, whether monetized or not, RUN OUT and run out fast. That's the whole problem, period. There's not enough ride capacity on the headliners to give everyone a ride or two. So instead of running out of free FP's, now the parks are going to run out of FP's they charged for. So someone get's on the computer to book for their vacation 60 days out, and they've PAID extra for FP+ and uh oh, there's none left. You think people complained about not getting free FP's, wait til they pay for them and are unable to get them.

 

[Praying Colonel]

No tiering
No limits to 1 park only
No limits to only 1 FP per attraction (i.e., allow multiple FPs for 1 attraction, if FPs are still available)
No limits to number of FPs one can acquire per day (again, based on FP availability)

If they can find a way to make FP+ work with all of those elements, fine. If not, then scrap it.

 

[Dannek]

For that to actually work, they'd need to have enough to sell.
Nobody with any Disney-smarts would pay a buck for a FP to ride Figment, so...
they'd need to have a BUNCH of TSM/Soarin'/Test Track/Exp.Everest/Safari/Space Mtn./Peter Pan FP+ to sell.
And, we're down the rabbit hole again.

This for sure.

One thing that should happen is that once FP- goes away, all of those tickets will be thrown into the FP+ system, which will increase availability. I'd imagine that disney could/will track ride usage through the new system and if there are tier one rides available on any given day they could offer FP+ reservations for a few dollars, and on day's the parks are really crowded they might not be able to.

Then again not all tier one rides are always booked solid, so Disney could offer a tier one FP+ reservation for sale without guaranteeing any particular ride, just some rides in that tier. Which rides that would be would depend on availability on any given day.

 

[jade1]

This. I've seen numerous posts about Disney possibly charging for FP+ and I don't get it at all. FP's, whether monetized or not, RUN OUT and run out fast. That's the whole problem, period. There's not enough ride capacity on the headliners to give everyone a ride or two. So instead of running out of free FP's, now the parks are going to run out of FP's they charged for. So someone get's on the computer to book for their vacation 60 days out, and they've PAID extra for FP+ and uh oh, there's none left. You think people complained about not getting free FP's, wait til they pay for them and are unable to get them.

What if new headliners are a choice of SB, or $10 FP+ while QTY's last.

That's about $50 million per year. Once the ride is paid off-it drops back to no charge.

That way they have no excuse to not build as many as they can.

And people in SB can't be mad at FP+ riders because they should thank them for building it.

 

[hoosll]

First, Disney should give everybody a smartphone so we can access THEIR system.

I think Disney has always had problems explaining the old FP system to the majority of guests so they have re-tooled it to something they think they can now educate the consumer to love ... hence the flash drive, 60-day window, etc. when you stay at a Disney resort.

The FP+ experience has educated me about what I value when I go to WDW:
1. There are MY favorite rides in each park and I WANT to ride them more than once. I use FPs to avoid wait times of 20+ minutes. I may mix in a couple of shows but I enjoy hitting a park and then doing something else (another park, DtD, pool, nice meal, etc.)
2. I am willing to stand in a crowd to watch a fireworks show or parade.
3. I am not willing to guarantee a table reservation with a credit card.
4. I will not waste money on park hoppers or annual passes in the future.
5. Without a smart phone, you will be running to a distant kiosk just like running to a FP machine. Perhaps, Disney will rent us smartphone devices ... instead of a talking Mickey, you get a planning Mickey.
6. Disney is setting the rules and driving your vacation to be longer and more expensive.

I'm seriously considering canceling my Feb. trip. I feel sorry for Disney guidebook authors who have had to delay publishing while Disney tries to establish their new rules (why else have a flash drive delivery system, so much easier to update than DVDs, pamphlets, etc.) Sigh

 

[Dannek]

This. I've seen numerous posts about Disney possibly charging for FP+ and I don't get it at all. FP's, whether monetized or not, RUN OUT and run out fast. That's the whole problem, period. There's not enough ride capacity on the headliners to give everyone a ride or two. So instead of running out of free FP's, now the parks are going to run out of FP's they charged for. So someone get's on the computer to book for their vacation 60 days out, and they've PAID extra for FP+ and uh oh, there's none left. You think people complained about not getting free FP's, wait til they pay for them and are unable to get them.

Well sometimes you have to look to the past to see the future. From what I've read, in the old days Disney used to offer ticket books that were issued based on ride tier. (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sure that at busy times you might have purchased a ticket book that included, for instance, Tommorowland Speedway along with other rides in that tier. If Tommorowland Speedway got so full that you couldn't get to ride it without waiting several hours, what did you do? You most likely used the tickets on other rides.

So if Disney offers additional FP+ for a fee and Soarin' gets completely booked, you have your choice of other tier one FP+ rides that will not be completely booked. I don't think that in the old days Disney ever offered ride tickets for any one individual ride as opposed to a group of rides. (again, someone correct me if I'm wrong). So I could see it working that way. You can't get on Soarin and Test Track, so you choose Maelstrom instead. Or maybe make a reservation for Illuminations that night. That's how tiered rides and sales of FP+ could work. It would be just like the old days, but in a new digital format.

 

[Laketravis]

This for sure.

One thing that should happen is that once FP- goes away, all of those tickets will be thrown into the FP+ system, which will increase availability. I'd imagine that disney could/will track ride usage through the new system and if there are tier one rides available on any given day they could offer FP+ reservations for a few dollars, and on day's the parks are really crowded they might not be able to.

Then again not all tier one rides are always booked solid, so Disney could offer a tier one FP+ reservation for sale without guaranteeing any particular ride, just some rides in that tier. Which rides that would be would depend on availability on any given day.

I think how quickly legacy FP's are running out during the day now is a great indication that there isn't really a large enough number of those to significantly increase the amount of FP+ slots available when they are added in.

I did a quick calculation last week when I was there - a load/unload cycle at Soarin took 8 minutes. Capacity is 184 guests when both sides are running. Under optimal conditions, that's 7.5 cycles per hour = 1,380 guests per hour or 16,560 over 12 hours.

Even if the Standby line was shut down and you could only get in via FP+ that is only a fraction of the total number of Epcot attendees per day.

Disney has a reputation for magic but it's hard to manipulate real numbers.

 

[rebbyparker]

I think how quickly legacy FP's are running out during the day now is a great indication that there isn't really a large enough number of those to significantly increase the amount of FP+ slots available when they are added in.

I did a quick calculation last week when I was there - a load/unload cycle at Soarin took 8 minutes. Capacity is 184 guests when both sides are running. Under optimal conditions, that's 7.5 cycles per hour = 1,380 guests per hour or 16,560 over 12 hours.

Even if the Standby line was shut down and you could only get in via FP+ that is only a fraction of the total number of Epcot attendees per day.

Disney has a reputation for magic but it's hard to manipulate real numbers.