How much have prices gone up since 2000?

[Dakota731]

simple answer personal debit is up

Not so simple when you ask why? Part of it is spending beyond our means - my dad always said the invention of the credit card is what caused this country's downfall. He never bought anything (not even cars) except his home unless he paid cash. If you want something bad enough to save years for it, then you will definitely appreciate it more.
Government is another reason we have less money now than ever. Our school taxes are $11,000 where I live and we are strictly a "middle" middle class family with an average size home in our area. On top of that we pay higher federal and state taxes than our parents' generation did.
Gas prices have gone up 57% since 2008 which has a snowball effect and causes everything else from food, clothing etc anything that travels by truck, train or plane to go up.
And the many rules and regulations that government place on small business causes prices to rise. Now with added cost to companies for the ACA, many businesses are cutting back hours or not adding jobs to save money or just raising the cost of their product or service to make up the difference.
I would to see more fiscal education for the youth in this country both for their own personal lives as well knowing how government should work. I actually heard a young co-worker say the answer to this country's woes is just to print more money!
And young and old need to rethink personal responsibility and to get rid of the recent thought that government will take care of us from cradle to grave. If you spend beyond your means, then you work two jobs to pay off your debt, not declare bankruptcy. If you borrow $50,000 in college loans, the YOU pay them back not default on your debt. If you get pregnant and have a baby, then you and your partner pay for his expenses, not the government. It's really pretty common sense and simple but we've gotten to be a nation of victims and crybabies. It's very sad.

 

[AquaDame]

That's at least in part because 30 somethings spend more than 30 somethings did in 1983. In order to amass a net worth, you have to save more than you spend. That isn't possible if you buy Coach handbags and have cable tv and a cell phone. Nor if you picked a college because it was your hearts desire rather than because it was affordable and you worked nights, weekends and summers to put yourself through state school over six years.

I'm not saying the economy hasn't sucked - but its been bad both directions - we expect too much too fast. We take on debt too fast - and the economy doesn't support it. But instead of looking at what the economy can support and spending appropriately - we buy homes with granite countertops.

Well, that and consider that we were told to put away at least 10% to our 401K and get a house and that could effectively be our net worth. We were told to go to college and get a degree to get a job so we did.

Yes, I worked through college, at one point with TWO jobs, both more than minimum wage BTW, WITH some assistance from my parents and YES I STILL HAD/HAVE DEBT. Thinking you can put yourself through college by working part time is, I'm sorry to say, asinine. No, I did not go out of state nor to a private university - very few of the kids I grew up with did and IF they did either their parent's were rich or they had massive scholarships. I went to cc for two years and finished my degree with three more at a University.

The only reason my house has granite countertops is because thats what they put in when they flipped it. My house is lower on the price scale and over 100K less than we were approved for.

So please, please, tell me how my generation messed up again? According to this I did everything right still so I must be missing something because I am still worse off than my parents and my grandparents at my age AND we don't even have children. My husband had a full ride through engineering school, one car will be paid off in Nov & mine has been for years (1997) I don't buy designer clothes, I don't wear makeup, we do as much work on the house as we can with elbow grease, we don't have cable... etc etc etc. IMO this house that is worth almost half as much as my parent's was in 1986 is all we can handle despite it all.

What's the right track?

that's the key question. You know people who lost their health care, I work with low income citizens who for the first time actually can go to the doctor BEFORE the problem gets to the ER stage thanks to the ACA and no they are not welfare queens sitting at home having babies.

As I said before it's a matter of perspectives. Over the years some how we started the message that everyone in this country should have a house. We started calling it the "American" dream. when in reality that is a very real product of these past two generations.

My husband started his own business and him and his partners made sure they were able to offer all their employees health care. sure, it was a bare bones policy but they felt strongly about it and everyone from the secretary to him and his partners had health care, so no not every small business is dropping their employee health care and some of the multi gabillion corporations even in good times never offered it.

Im not a fan of the ACA but I'm not a fan of health care in this country period. I don't particularly like a health care system that is dependant on the ability to pay.

Jobs are harder to come by and a lot of that isn't due so much to economics but technology. factory jobs are gone (but coming back ironically) and jobs that once supported those without college degrees are gone. that has skewed things to one side. Also it's a global market.

So what's truly driving the drop in net worth of 30 some things? the 30 some thing of 83 could get a job in a car factory and make a decent living. that's not just economy causing that, that's a shift in the way we live.
As crisi said, I was a 30 some thing in the 80's, my pay was waaay lower than it is today but my savings was much higher because we were just coming off a generation of savings. 30 some things today expect to have a mastercard in their pocket and for a long time did not save any thing. heck, it took a major depression/recession for us to figure credit was bad.

What's driving kids getting big college debt? Is it that tuition is sky high or a combination of sky high tuition along with easy money (it is ridiculously easy to get a school loan) combined with the view that every kid some how DESERVES a four year, live in the dorm college experience?
Now community colleges and trade schools enrollment is booming, but if you had asked one of those 30 some things back when they were 18 to go to a cc I'm willing to bet in no way would they have went for it.

My oldest son is a special needs kid, so he failed at college. He's in his 2nd year of a plumbers/pipe fitter apprenticeship, he still catches jokes from his h.s. friends about trade school. usually they joke until he tells them he gets union wages for on the job training.

let me repeat, I am in no way ignoring the fact that people are hurting, every one is feeling the pinch. Most economist will tell you though that inflation beats deflation 6 days a week and twice on Sundays

Personally I think the 70's were much worse and we managed to survive.

Well, again, a lot of this is how we were taught to live by the previous generation. Saving? Are you kidding? The baby boomers insisted everyone could not only afford A house, but a LARGE house. Consumption was booming - new cars, new gadgets, new everything - if its a couple of years old or breaks toss it. Want your own car? Get a job and buy one on credit. Got to go to college - since everyone is going and demand is high we'll charge 4x as much of course go get a loan. It's OK its subsidized by the government, you won't even FEEL the pinch over the next 15 years. Then you are already saddled with two loans and you need $400 of textbooks the next term (its just capitalism kid, supply and demand, you know how it is) so use that credit card baby, you can pay it off when you get out like we did real easy - we just took a summer job! Not that wages kept up... This has NOTHING to do with feeling like we DESERVE anything. It was presented to us as a NEED. You NEED to go to University to get a job. Sure we know NOW that it won't work post the 2008 crash but tell that to my lost generation. Go back and tell the kids who were told since kindergarten this is all to get into a good school that you lied for 12 years and we should just go into an apprentice program.

Not so simple when you ask why? Part of it is spending beyond our means - my dad always said the invention of the credit card is what caused this country's downfall. He never bought anything (not even cars) except his home unless he paid cash. If you want something bad enough to save years for it, then you will definitely appreciate it more.
Government is another reason we have less money now than ever. Our school taxes are $11,000 where I live and we are strictly a "middle" middle class family with an average size home in our area. On top of that we pay higher federal and state taxes than our parents' generation did.
Gas prices have gone up 57% since 2008 which has a snowball effect and causes everything else from food, clothing etc anything that travels by truck, train or plane to go up.
And the many rules and regulations that government place on small business causes prices to rise. Now with added cost to companies for the ACA, many businesses are cutting back hours or not adding jobs to save money or just raising the cost of their product or service to make up the difference.
I would to see more fiscal education for the youth in this country both for their own personal lives as well knowing how government should work. I actually heard a young co-worker say the answer to this country's woes is just to print more money!
And young and old need to rethink personal responsibility and to get rid of the recent thought that government will take care of us from cradle to grave. If you spend beyond your means, then you work two jobs to pay off your debt, not declare bankruptcy. If you borrow $50,000 in college loans, the YOU pay them back not default on your debt. If you get pregnant and have a baby, then you and your partner pay for his expenses, not the government. It's really pretty common sense and simple but we've gotten to be a nation of victims and crybabies. It's very sad.

I could not have gotten through my state University without loans. As I said, I worked two part time jobs including all summer at higher than minimum wage, lived at home during the two CC years, had my parents supplement my gov't subsidized loans when I went to Uni, never lived in a dorm but split rent off campus with some other students and STILL came out with thousands in loans. All in pursuit of a good job which I do have and do love but I am sorry I am NOT making median wages here. Again, everything "right" and yet it just doesn't work out the way it was supposed to. Our mortgage is stupid high as it is even though we didn't fall for the 'what you can afford' bit that our generation was fed. We went with what we were comfortable with NOW rather than banking on always making more with yearly increases. We're all cutting back trying to save more, but many days it feels like you've been paddling hard and not made any traction. Save on clothes this month just to watch it go in the gas tank. Turn the AC down a few notches just to have food for the month bust the budget.
Then for what? To have you say that we just aren't doing things right? That millennials want everything on a silver platter? What fiscal education do you feel I would have benefitted from? The only people I know who have filed for bankruptcy were from the baby boomer generation. Last I heard you could NOT wipe out school loans that way. I'm not touching the baby thing with a 10 foot pole but I assure you the way we look at motherhood and sex in this country is just terrible and that is going to stay an issue for a very long time. No one ever told us the government would take care of us from cradle to grave (especially NOT in recent memory) we had the fear of god lit under our ***** in pursuit of an education that would allow us the American Dream. Now you're telling us forget it, you kids are so irresponsible! Well I'm sorry our collective bubble burst but the collective [you] need to find a new scapegoat. We did the best with what we were given and if I weren't so fretful from a young age I'd probably be on a couple of these programs myself. The downside is I'm probably going to fret myself into an early grave.

 

[Pigeon]

Factory jobs are gone here due to government regulation and taxation. In 1970s, China made very little of anything. Today its factory output is almost 20 percent of world production and about 15 percent of manufacturing value added. Just since 2001 China has gained 40 million factory jobs.
The jobs growing in this country are government jobs - shuffling paper jobs that produce nothing to export to other countries and no profit is generated.

Factory jobs moved to China because labor is dirt cheap in China, and companies can make greater profits that way that go into the pockets of a few people. Actually, it's starting to get a little more expensive in China, just as it always does when the standard of living for the average person starts to move up a little. Now some companies are moving jobs out of China and into Africa for cheaper labor.

Have you ever been to China? Ever visited a sweatshop? Ever seen a factory looking for workers blatantly state that they will only hire young women under the age of 22? Ever been in a city where you don't see a sliver of blue sky day in and day out because the pollution is so bad? Ever been to a city where the rivers run different colors depending on what the factories upstream are producing?

I'll take the regulation, thanks.

 

[manning]

I'll take the regulation, thanks.

And watch all the good jobs flee overseas.

In many ways we go too far in pollution controls. We try to clean it up 100% rather than clean it to the point nature can handle it. I learned this from a scientist. His explanation was simple to understand.

His example was a moving stream. The movement of the stream is self cleaning. we make the mistake of cleaning the water at 100%. All we have to do is clean it to the point where the flow of the stream does the rest. In other words if the tipping point is 80%, you clean up 80 % of it and let nature do the rest. Same results but cheaper.

Same with air. clean it to the point where nature can handle the rest.

 

[Dakota731]

I could not have gotten through my state University without loans.

Who ever said go to school without getting loans? Not me but you have to be smart about it. Some of my kids friends majored in music or sport management and have $100,000 in debt. They went to expensive schools for a major that won't be easy to pay back loans. They could have went two years in a community college then went to a state school for half the price. Or like my friend's son who went to a trade school for welding and is now making a lot more money than most of his college graduate friends.

In many ways we go too far in pollution controls.

So right! We are close to losing the gas pipeline in our area which would mean lower energy costs and lots of high paying jobs. People have it drilled into their heads that it's unsafe (though it's proven much safer and less polluting than fuels delivered by truck or train). Do your homework - research both sides before protesting something you are uneducated about. No one wants pollution but I'm sick of paying $4.00 a gallon for gas and the profits going to middle eastern countries who don't give a hoot about pollution or saving the environment.
According to the Department of Energy, if the transportation sector switched to natural gas, it would cut the nation's carbon-monoxide emissions by at least 90 percent, carbon-dioxide emissions by 25 and nitrogen-oxide emissions by up to 60. I just ask that people become educated instead of jumping on whatever bandwagon their facebook friends are "liking" this week.

 

[Dakota731]

Ever been in a city where you don't see a sliver of blue sky day in and day out because the pollution is so bad? Ever been to a city where the rivers run different colors depending on what the factories upstream are producing?

That's why I want to keep the jobs in the US! But in our area alone, we have lost 3 Fortune 500 companies (and 5000 jobs and many tax dollars) to the overseas market due to union demands, high taxation and government regulation.

No one ever told us the government would take care of us from cradle to grave

It used to be that families and churches took care of their own, but I see the differences in my own family. Both my sisters' kids had children in their teens and now get government housing, healthcare, food stamps, help with utilities, and free cellphones. And I blame the government. My sister said "I feel bad not having them live with us but they can get so much more help from the government." And word spreads quickly - at a recent baby shower, the one teen was telling her pregnant cousin, you can go here for free baby visits and call this number to get free daycare etc. Maybe we make it a little too easy.

 

[manning]

According to the Department of Energy, if the transportation sector switched to natural gas, it would cut the nation's carbon-monoxide emissions by at least 90 percent, carbon-dioxide emissions by 25 and nitrogen-oxide emissions by up to 60. I just ask that people become educated instead of jumping on whatever bandwagon their facebook friends are "liking" this week.

natural gas, it would cut the nation's carbon-monoxide emissions by at least 90 percent, carbon-dioxide emissions by 25 and nitrogen-oxide emissions by up to 60[/b

Natural gas is......a carbon based fuel too.

Coal burning has been cleaned up considerably. I wouldn't be surprised now that natural gas is challenging coal, coal burning may become cleaner. It has to be to remain in the game.

In World War Two Germany converted coal into gasoline. They had to, they didn't have enough oil. The question is will someone figure out how to do it so it can compete with gasoline made from oil. Boy, if it could be done the Arabs would be in a world of hurt. We have hundreds of years supply of coal.

 

[Dakota731]

Factory jobs moved to China because labor is dirt cheap in China

Companies have to make a profit! We had a huge farm supply company here near us that moved overseas due to high corporate taxes, union demands, healthcare costs and crazy regulations. They would have had to charge $15,000 for a tractor here compared to $10,000 which the Japanese companies are charging for a similar product. By moving the factory out of the US, the American company can now sell the tractor for $10,000 and at least keep the profits here in the US for our stockholders.
It seems like in the past few years, American companies have gotten a reputation as evil corporations. But they supply jobs, provide money for our 401ks and make products. There are states such as Texas, Delaware and Florida where companies are welcome and the tax structure is pro-business, and the economy is much better in those areas. Look at states with high corporate taxes and ridiculous regulations like California and you will see an economy that is reaching a bankruptcy state.

 

[Dakota731]

Have you ever been to China? Ever visited a sweatshop?

Nope, I have not but my brother goes over every week for business and said the Chinese people are very grateful for the jobs in the American factories which pay much more most other jobs they could get. And don't forget the cost of living is much lower there than in the US. Most US companies that have factories overseas are not like the sweatshops of old that you are imagining.

By the way, do you have an iPhone, iPod or iPad? If you say yes, I wouldn't think your conscience would let you sleep at night considering the average salary of a Chinese worker making your iPhone makes $1.85 an hour.
Foxconn is contracted by Apple to assemble iPhones in a southern Chinese city and employs 230,000 workers. You can't have it both ways!

 

[AquaDame]

Nope, I have not but my brother goes over every week for business and said the Chinese people are very grateful for the jobs in the American factories which pay much more most other jobs they could get. And don't forget the cost of living is much lower there than in the US. Most US companies that have factories overseas are not like the sweatshops of old that you are imagining.

By the way, do you have an iPhone, iPod or iPad? If you say yes, I wouldn't think your conscience would let you sleep at night considering the average salary of a Chinese worker making your iPhone makes $1.85 an hour.
Foxconn is contracted by Apple to assemble iPhones in a southern Chinese city and employs 230,000 workers. You can't have it both ways!

The real question then is what are we going to do about it? The key here is that in China they are treated better than their peers in American factories but the wages they make just aren't viable over here. I don't think paying us $1.85 an hour in our economy is going to work and unless we can do the same as in China there is no reason for anyone to come back/to stop moving jobs if they can afford to do so. It's an argument American workers can't win.

 

[AquaDame]

Companies have to make a profit! We had a huge farm supply company here near us that moved overseas due to high corporate taxes, union demands, healthcare costs and crazy regulations. They would have had to charge $15,000 for a tractor here compared to $10,000 which the Japanese companies are charging for a similar product. By moving the factory out of the US, the American company can now sell the tractor for $10,000 and at least keep the profits here in the US for our stockholders.
It seems like in the past few years, American companies have gotten a reputation as evil corporations. But they supply jobs, provide money for our 401ks and make products. There are states such as Texas, Delaware and Florida where companies are welcome and the tax structure is pro-business, and the economy is much better in those areas. Look at states with high corporate taxes and ridiculous regulations like California and you will see an economy that is reaching a bankruptcy state.

The problem is companies want to MAXIMIZE profits as well - the more money for stockholders the better. Boeing is doing very well for themselves even with Union labor still in place but that doesn't mean they aren't gunning hard to be rid of the Unions to make the shareholders happier. Keeping JUST profits in America is all well and good if you are a stockholder, but then we are talking about the rich getting richer with no benefit to the lower classes. I think American businesses have had a bad rap for far longer than just the last few years personally and a lot of it is working us harder for less and if we don't like it they just pack up and leave. Utterly powerless and then when you look at places that try to fight for the common man they're seen as just as evil because they are MAKING the poor corporations that is pulling in billions leave. Even states that do cut corporate taxes such as Oregon and Washington see the corporations leave anyway. Intel and Nike are always having to be appeased here and Boeing is literally leaving Washington despite very generous corporate tax evasion (sorry calling it what it is) in favor of non union labor because tax breaks don't line their coffers enough. Greed, greed, greed.

 

[ICF]

The only thing that has gone down in the past few years for our family is our 401K .....

then you should have been invested better. My investments have done great over the last 5 years.

 

[Dakota731]

My investments have done great over the last 5 years.

Then I guess you are a greedy American wanting to make money off the backs of low income citizens. Seems strange that people in this country want their investments to do well, but they don't want corporations to make any profits. It doesn't make any sense!

The real question then is what are we going to do about it?

Texas seems to be doing a good job of it by giving out more business incentives than any other state. As a result, Texas is home to half of all the private sector jobs created over the last decade nationwide. Texas leads the nation in job creation and five of the ten best cities for jobs in 2014 are in Texas. Three of the top ten are in Florida so it seems like leaders in those two states are doing something right with their low taxes and favorable regulatory environment that offer a friendly business climate. So what we can do about it is learn from leaders who actually have some business sense and experience in turning an economy around.

 

[manning]

Thank god for stockholders

If it wasn't for them many would not have jobs.

To start a business you need capital (money).

To raise money you have to either borrow it or sell shares of your company. When you want to really grow you sell shares.

The people who buy those shares are stockholders who expect to make money.

In return of buying your stock you promise to make them money.

If you don't make them any money they want their investment back.

They get it back by selling their shares. More times than not the shares sell for less than what they bought it for. Now if the stocks don't sell the company runs out of money and goes bankrupt. They close the company and....you lose your job.

The people running the company have a fiduciary duty to look out for the interest of the stockholder. If they don't they get fired and can be sued.

Now what is the right profit or wages. It comes down to what the market can bear.

Workers and stockholders are always in competition. The stockholder is trying to get the best return he can and the worker to get the best wages he can. They both will gravitate to the money. I've got money invested in "A" and can get a better return at "B" I take my money out of "A" and put it in "B".
If the worker can get better wages at "B" he will leave "A" and go to "B". To get workers "A" has to equal or offer better wages. A constant tug of war.

Now where would you think a Boeing, GM or Ford be if they didn't have any capital to begin with. More than likely there would not have been a Boeing, GM or Ford. They would not have had any money to begin with, and they would not have hired any workers.

The top priority of a company will always be to the stockholder over the worker. They have to be to be to survive.

The tricky part in this is trying to strike the right balance.

 

[Dakota731]

And corporations need a profit to develop new products - we all know we couldn't survive without the newest laptop or phone. Certain companies seem to get away with making a very high profit margin yet never get any bad press - Apple made QUARTERLY net profit of $13.1 billion the end of last year, but the press never says what an evil corporation they are.

But people whine about drug companies making money without realizing the average drug developed by a major pharmaceutical company costs at least $4 billion. Plus they need money to pay off the millions each year they face in lawsuits. With threats like the Ebola virus, I certainly want the drug companies to make a profit so new drugs are able to be produced. We seem to have our priorities a little screwed up.