How much control should employers have over their employees?

Planogirl

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This article is interesting to me:
Can boss insist on healthy habits? By Randy Dotinga, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
Wed Jan 11, 3:00 AM ET

A year ago, the Weyco medical benefits firm in Michigan made news nationwide by sacking employees who refused to try to quit smoking.

But that was just the beginning. Now, the company is working even harder to force its workers to take better care of themselves.

In 2006, Weyco employees who refuse to take mandated medical tests and physical examinations will see their monthly health insurance premiums jump by $65. By next year, their annual insurance bills will grow by more than $1,000 if they still fail to follow instructions.

"The cost of healthcare is frustrating everybody, and we believe at Weyco that we have to heal ourselves," says Howard Weyers, company president and founder. "We think it's vital."

But at what price? Should bosses like Mr. Weyers worry about whether workers are getting annual dental exams, eating healthy, or jogging regularly? Or should employees have a basic right to live their personal lives without interference?

These questions are gaining resonance as more American companies try to convince employees to watch their health.

Smokers, not surprisingly, are often the targets, with some companies going as far as testing their workers for tobacco use. In addition, some employees are being told to shape up or pay up, including those who are overweight, avoid exercise, have high blood pressure or high cholesterol.

"A lot of employers are wrestling with this internally," says Glenn Patton, an employment attorney in Atlanta.

In some cases, bosses are telling workers to take part in preventive "wellness" programs - a nutrition class, for example - or face higher premiums.

"You can't require someone to get better ... or lose weight," says Mila Kofman, assistant research professor at Georgetown University Health Policy Institute in Washington, D.C. "But [employers] can require you to participate in [a health program]."

At Blue Cross/Blue Shield of North Carolina, for example, company employees with health conditions such as obesity will automatically get socked with higher insurance premiums - as much as $480 a year - unless they agree to take part in wellness programs. The higher premiums began last year for the company's own employees; this year, employers who contract with Blue Cross/Blue Shield of North Carolina for insurance can choose to impose the higher fees on their workers, too.

"We give people an alternative to not pay the higher rates if they work on their problems," says executive medical director Dr. Don Bradley, who says more than half of his company's employees are overweight. "Folks respond far better to carrots than they do to sticks, so the secret here is to keep this as an incentive rather than a punishment."

The approach makes sense for employers, says Lisa Horn, manager of healthcare at the Society for Human Resource Management in Alexandria, Va., which advises personnel managers. "They're really trying to improve the health of their employees overall, and not just reduce costs for the employer, but also for employees," Ms. Horn says. "It certainly seems like their intentions are in the right place."

An invasion of privacy?
Workers' rights groups don't agree. They're appalled by the pushy-employer trend, which they have seen growing over the past couple of years.

"This isn't about smokers," says Jeremy Gruber, legal director of the National Workrights Institute in Princeton, N.J. "This is about all of us being able to go about our private lives without employers making decisions based on what we do off the job."

Some observers worry that employers will let their interest in health get out of hand. "My biggest fear," Ms. Kofman says, "is that ... companies will try to use these wellness programs as a subterfuge to discriminate against unhealthy people."

Currently, federal law forbids employers from discriminating against workers if genetic testing suggests they're susceptible to certain diseases. But could employers refuse to hire applicants because they smell like smoke?

"It's probably legal," Kofman says.

Some lawmakers want to change that. In Michigan, an outcry against the firing of smokers at Weyco sparked a state senator to push for a law that would prevent employers from firing workers for engaging in legal activities outside the workplace. About 30 other states have similar laws protecting the private lives of employees, although their protections differ.

Mr. Weyers, the Weyco president, doesn't have regrets. "I tell people that this was not a privacy situation, this was a company policy," he says. "Employees are adults, and we expect them to make adult decisions about things like drugs or tobacco. What's more important: your job or the use of those things?"

The company was generous enough to give employees 15 months to make a decision about whether to quit smoking, Weyers adds. Some workers "decided tobacco was more important, and that's fine. They can go someplace else and work."

Workplaces often lack private-life protections
The color of your eyes, the car you drive, and your weight may all sound like private matters. But in many states, employers can take those facts - and many more - into account when they decide whether to hire or fire you.

Some groups are protected on the federal level: Employers can't discriminate against workers based on age, gender, race, disability, national origin, or religion. But unless state law says differently, all other characteristics are fair game, including your political leanings and even what you wear outside of work.

In 2004, for example, an Alabama housing insulation company reportedly fired a woman for sticking a Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker on her Chevy Lumina. In 2002, Goodwill Industries sacked a man who ran for mayor of Miami as a member of the Socialist Workers Party. Also that year, a federal court ruled that the Winn-Dixie grocery chain had the right to fire a Louisiana employee because he wore women's clothing off the job.

These firings didn't violate the law thanks to "at-will employment," a legal concept in 49 states that allows bosses to fire workers for virtually any reason - or none at all. (Montana is the sole exception.)

Even a seemingly arcane factor like your weight can come into play. "To be honest, generally speaking there is no law that prohibits an employer from saying, 'You look about 15-20 pounds too heavy, you're fired,' " says Atlanta employment attorney Glenn Patton.

There are some exceptions. Almost all states protect employees from being fired for "exercising a right of public policy," such as voting, says Camille Olson, an employment attorney in Chicago. Government employees have special protections, as do many union members and others with contracts.

As of 2003, 29 states and the District of Columbia forbade bosses from firing workers for engaging in certain legal off-duty activities, according to the Society for Human Resource Management. Tobacco use is the most widely protected activity; four states protect employees who do anything legal outside the workplace.

Outside those states, workers can still get pink slips for engaging in private activities.

I know that there's been an ongoing discussion about smoking as far as healthcare goes but how far should an employer go? Personally, I'm undecided and very concerned about privacy issues. I remembering the slippery slop subject came up when smoking was being discussed and it looks like it was a good argument.
 
Mr. Weyers, the Weyco president, doesn't have regrets. "I tell people that this was not a privacy situation, this was a company policy," he says. "Employees are adults, and we expect them to make adult decisions about things like drugs or tobacco. What's more important: your job or the use of those things?"

It's a decision we all make daily. Right now I'm struggling with "What's more important...my paycheck or my unhappiness with management?" How is that different than "What's more important, my paycheck or my cigarette/hoagie/ice cream cone?"

Seriously...I'm not trying to be flip...I don't see a real difference there.
 
Not sure exactly how I feel about it, but to add to the discussion -- my company went the other tact when it came to encouraging a healthy lifestyle. They offered a discount on our insurance premiums if we signed an agreement that we would not smoke during the entire year. How it's enforcable, I have no clue?
 
Well, as long as an employer is "picking up the check" for employer-sponsored healthcare, I suppose that they *can* have a say in this.

I prepare all the forms for enrolling in healthcare at my office. I see everyone's illnesses. Believe me, when the health insurance company sees that John Doe is on 15 different medications for high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, etc., our premium goes up. And my employer pays the bulk of that increase. So, the employer can elect to force his employees to be more healthy to keep the rates down for everyone, or he (the employer) can find that the health insurance is way to expensive and just drop it all together.

Personally, I'd rather keep my health insurance and attend a "wellness" class than lose it altogether for privacy's sake.
 

Christine said:
I prepare all the forms for enrolling in healthcare at my office. I see everyone's illnesses. Believe me, when the health insurance company sees that John Doe is on 15 different medications for high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, etc., our premium goes up. And my employer pays the bulk of that increase. So, the employer can elect to force his employees to be more healthy to keep the rates down for everyone, or he (the employer) can find that the health insurance is way to expensive and just drop it all together.
Often high blood pressure isn't due to being overweight or any other identifiable cause but might be due to genetics or maybe for no apparent reason at all. I have a slim friend who is extremely health conscious and yet still has high blood pressure. What about people like that?
 
I can understand having someone with a habit that tends to increase the risk of health problems, such as smoking or drinking, paying a little more for their health insurance, but other than that, I don't think it is the employers business at all unless it is affecting them on the job (for instance if they spend 50% of their time on the clock outside smoking).
 
That's a tough one. I know my teaching contract has a vague clause in there about upright moral conduct and I know it is a way of saying we need to be good role models in the community - I would be one anyways, of course since it is teaching..., but I can see where it would bug some people. But if I had a real problem with it, I could choose a different profession.
 
Well the company has to right to set its standards and the employees have the right to seek other employment. If the standards are too high, the company will lose employees and then it will have to relook at its policy. Do I really feel that the company has a right to dictate people's private lives? No
 
I have mixed feelings. I don’t have a problem with employees paying reduced premiums if they attend a wellness class. However, I think that should be available to everyone, not just obese employees or smokers or those with high blood pressure. That way the employer can’t, for example, dictate that all the overweight folks go to the class but leave excessive drinkers alone. If everyone can attend the class for reduced premiums that would help.

That being said, I can understand where companies are coming from when it comes to trying to reduce healthcare costs. Since smoking, for example, is known to have very harmful health effects, it’s hard to blame a company for wanting their employees to try to quit. At my previous employer (an indoor air quality testing company), we had to sign an agreement that we did not smoke in order to be employed there. Since it was outlined in the beginning, I didn’t have a problem with it (and I’m a non-smoker anyway).

The flip side of the argument is I wouldn’t want a company to be able to terminate an employee who cost the company a lot healthcare premium-wise. For instance, an employee receiving costly cancer treatments and surgeries would cost the company more than an employee who was healthy overall. When the premiums were assessed the next year, the employer might consider letting the cancer patient go since they contributed to the rise in employer premiums. That would be a tragedy in my opinion.
 
ead79 said:
The flip side of the argument is I wouldn’t want a company to be able to terminate an employee who cost the company a lot healthcare premium-wise. For instance, an employee receiving costly cancer treatments and surgeries would cost the company more than an employee who was healthy overall. When the premiums were assessed the next year, the employer might consider letting the cancer patient go since they contributed to the rise in employer premiums. That would be a tragedy in my opinion.
That part of it really worries me. There is a local company that requires physicals before hiring. They're trying to weed out smokers supposedly. But what's to stop them from refusing to hire people with high blood pressure, people who are overweight or whatever? Nothing.
 
I can understand the health care part, but I do think there is a limit to what they can ask/say. If an employee smells (and yes I have smelled this) the boss can and should tell them kindly to bath and use deodorant. If my obesity/smoking is costing the company more money in premiums, then I expect to pay for it. They should not be fired.
 
mickeyfan2 said:
I can understand the health care part, but I do think there is a limit to what they can ask/say. If an employee smells (and yes I have smelled this) the boss can and should tell them kindly to bath and use deodorant. If my obesity/smoking is costing the company more money in premiums, then I expect to pay for it. They should not be fired.
Different premiums is an interesting idea as long as the differences aren't excessive. Pay to play so to speak.
 
Next, companies will be able to tell you how to feel, think and vote.
 
I think this and the other thread on whether a company has to by law provide care go hand in hand. If a company is required by law to provide care than I can see them trying even harder to limit activities that would cost them even more money.
 
jodifla said:
Next, companies will be able to tell you how to feel, think and vote.

Highly unlikely, but I do find your answer intriguing...

My take is that if a company is paying part or all of the employee's health care, then they have every right to dictate terms and/or increase the employee share of healthcare. I don't like that it happens, but I can certainly understand why a company would do so.
 
jodifla said:
Next, companies will be able to tell you how to feel, think and vote.

It's getting close. From the article itself:
In 2004, for example, an Alabama housing insulation company reportedly fired a woman for sticking a Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker on her Chevy Lumina. In 2002, Goodwill Industries sacked a man who ran for mayor of Miami as a member of the Socialist Workers Party.
 
Originally Posted by jodifla
Next, companies will be able to tell you how to feel, think and vote.


Planogirl said:
It's getting close. From the article itself:

Quote:
In 2004, for example, an Alabama housing insulation company reportedly fired a woman for sticking a Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker on her Chevy Lumina. In 2002, Goodwill Industries sacked a man who ran for mayor of Miami as a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

But the same laws that allow us to vote for whom we want and belong to whichever political party we want also allow others to disagree with us.

What we have to remember is that these companies are private, not gov't. They can (in 49 states) fired you for whatever reason they feel like. Likewise, you are free to quit for whatever reason you feel like. I don't see the inequity. They can't force you to work for them and you can't force them to let you work for them.
 
BuckNaked said:
My take is that if a company is paying part or all of the employee's health care, then they have every right to dictate terms and/or increase the employee share of healthcare. I don't like that it happens, but I can certainly understand why a company would do so.

Agreed.

I also believe that the discrimination laws should be changed if necessary to address this. The law should make it clear when a company is within it's rights as the one paying the bills and when they go too far and discriminate against those will health issues.
 
Free4Life11 said:
The employer could just not offer health insurance if they are concerned about the costs.

True enough. On the other hand, why should they have to drop insurance for the people that are more than willing to live with their rules, just because some people don't like those rules?
 


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